09:00:43 <anteaya> #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration
09:00:44 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Jan 13 09:00:43 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
09:00:45 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
09:00:48 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration'
09:00:51 <jlibosva> hi
09:01:00 <anteaya> jlibosva: hello
09:01:05 <obondarev> o/
09:01:10 <anteaya> welcome, I'm glad you are here
09:01:18 <anteaya> obondarev: oleg how are you?
09:01:24 <obondarev> me too:)
09:01:28 <anteaya> obondarev: how were your holidays?
09:01:32 <belmoreira> hi
09:01:34 <anteaya> obondarev: :D
09:01:35 <obondarev> anteaya: Good, thank you :)
09:01:40 <anteaya> belmoreira: welcome
09:01:43 <obondarev> anteaya: how are you?
09:01:45 <anteaya> obondarev: wonderful
09:01:57 <anteaya> obondarev: good thanks, enjoying a lovely new zealand evening
09:02:08 <obondarev> anteaya: wow, cool!
09:02:09 <anteaya> anyone else here for the migration meeting?
09:02:14 <anteaya> obondarev: it is lovely
09:02:26 <anteaya> obondarev: we have to figure out how to get you to lca next year
09:02:42 <obondarev> anteaya: sorry, where?)
09:02:56 <anteaya> obondarev: linux conference austrailia
09:03:13 <obondarev> anteaya: ah, I see)
09:03:30 <anteaya> so we do have a bit of an agenda
09:03:36 <anteaya> let's take a look, shall we?
09:03:41 <anteaya> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration
09:04:07 <anteaya> #topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev)
09:04:15 <obondarev> anteaya: yep
09:04:19 <anteaya> obondarev: would you care to share your thoughts?
09:04:28 <obondarev> sure
09:04:32 <obondarev> so I continue working on the spec, uploaded new revision yesterday
09:04:41 <anteaya> wonderful, thank you
09:04:51 <obondarev> thanks to Joe Gordon, Jacub and others for being active reviewers
09:05:15 <obondarev> still would be good to have more people taking part in the discussion
09:05:22 <obondarev> on gerrit
09:05:24 <anteaya> yes, I agree
09:05:35 <obondarev> I'm also working on the prototype in parallel
09:05:42 <anteaya> how do you mean?
09:05:46 <obondarev> which is the first part of the proposed plan - Neutron proxy mode
09:06:16 <obondarev> I mean in arallel with spec discussions
09:06:20 <obondarev> p*
09:06:31 <anteaya> okay
09:06:36 <anteaya> where are you working on that?
09:07:03 <obondarev> mostly locally, haven't posted anything to gerrit yet
09:07:13 <anteaya> can you put something up?
09:07:23 <anteaya> I don't want to see effort wasted
09:07:32 <anteaya> and would like to see where you are heading
09:07:46 <anteaya> may I jump in here with some additional comments?
09:07:52 <anteaya> or would you like to continue?
09:07:56 <obondarev> Yeah, I think I'll post initial version in two days
09:08:07 <obondarev> sure
09:08:14 <anteaya> okay thanks
09:08:47 <anteaya> so there are a few people involved in this who are at linux conference australia in auckland this week
09:09:03 <anteaya> so we took the time to sit down on monday and share some thoughts
09:09:24 <anteaya> michael still took nots on an etherpad and has had the time to post that link publicly yet
09:09:48 <anteaya> but we want to share the information with everyone whcih is why we put it in and etherpad
09:09:53 <anteaya> sorry I don't have that link
09:10:25 <obondarev> no worries
09:10:37 <anteaya> so I was there and michael still, joe gordon, mark, angus
09:10:47 <obondarev> cool!
09:10:57 <anteaya> jim blair and david lyle (mostly because they were available)
09:11:15 <belmoreira> anteaya: the discussion in lca diverged from the spec?
09:11:21 <anteaya> and we think that there needs to be more attention on the spec so that is good
09:11:36 <anteaya> belmoreira: well I think mostly we agreed that it needs more detail
09:11:47 <anteaya> and we acknowledge oleg is doing a great job
09:11:50 <obondarev> for sure
09:12:05 <obondarev> I mean more details)
09:12:05 <anteaya> but needs more support than he has gotten so far
09:12:14 <anteaya> yes more details
09:12:23 <anteaya> more details for testing
09:12:38 <anteaya> a better understanding of what priorties are important to cern
09:12:53 <anteaya> such as tolerance for downtime and allowance for rolling upgrades
09:13:00 <anteaya> those sorts of questions
09:13:15 <anteaya> cern being the model use case for deployers here
09:13:19 <obondarev> Joe posted some of those question on the spec
09:13:33 <anteaya> yes, we are trying to capture this in the spec
09:13:44 <anteaya> and trying to work together to get some answers
09:13:58 <anteaya> the over all direction I believe is where we want to go
09:14:12 <anteaya> we just need to work now to get some more exact answers
09:14:20 <obondarev> +
09:14:26 <anteaya> so gus, mark and I are going to sit down this week
09:14:35 <anteaya> and work on another patchset to the spec
09:14:43 <anteaya> I hpoe that is okay with you obondarev
09:14:51 <obondarev> sure
09:14:58 <anteaya> to fill in the blanks on some of these questions
09:15:02 <anteaya> obondarev: thank you :D
09:15:13 <anteaya> and then go through a review cycle again
09:15:18 <obondarev> thank you all:)
09:15:39 <anteaya> now mark, joe, michael still and myself will be at the nova mid-cycle in two weeks
09:16:03 <anteaya> obondarev: it would be awesome to have you there too, oleg but that would be too difficult to arrange now I think
09:16:28 <obondarev> I think so too
09:16:37 <anteaya> and hopefully by continuing to work on the spec we can be a little closer to agreement on how to implement the migration
09:16:50 <anteaya> does this sound acceptable?
09:17:07 <obondarev> yes
09:17:14 <obondarev> one point from Joe was that it'll be good to break the spec in its curent state in two parts
09:17:18 <anteaya> great, thanks so much for your understanding
09:17:24 <obondarev> one describing the overall process, what we're trying to achieve eventually
09:17:32 <obondarev> which starting points and which end points
09:17:46 <obondarev> this I guess should be a cross project specification
09:17:50 <anteaya> obondarev: yes, right now joe is advocating for a two part/two patch approach
09:18:09 <obondarev> the other describing technical implementation details
09:18:09 <anteaya> well lets' see how much we can retain within neutron
09:18:21 <anteaya> since everytime we expand we introduce more waiting time
09:18:36 <obondarev> agree
09:19:00 <anteaya> I'll work with angus and mark to see if we can capture the details in joe's idea of a two part approach in the spec
09:19:08 <anteaya> so taht it makes sense with everyone
09:19:23 <obondarev> great, thank you
09:19:42 <anteaya> so hopefully that should be up for review by the end of thursday
09:19:51 <anteaya> thursday new zealand time
09:20:11 <anteaya> so I look forward to your review and comments on that patchset
09:20:27 <anteaya> so anything more here on this topic?
09:20:36 <obondarev> not from my side
09:20:46 <anteaya> belmoreira: anything more right now?
09:21:00 <jlibosva> sorry I don't know much the names mentioned here :)
09:21:08 <jlibosva> I wanted to ask whether there are also folks from nova
09:21:11 <anteaya> jlibosva: ah sorry
09:21:18 <jlibosva> as we'll probably need to file a nova spec too
09:21:37 <anteaya> jlibosva: yes a good question, I shouldn't assume everyone knows eveyone else
09:21:38 <jlibosva> I saw there were some concerns about contacting conductor directly
09:21:45 <anteaya> michael still is the nova ptl
09:21:49 <belmoreira> anteays: no, thx
09:21:49 <obondarev> right, that's on the agenda
09:21:53 <anteaya> joe gordon is a nova core
09:22:06 <jlibosva> ah, thanks :) I should have probably known that
09:22:08 <anteaya> so yes, we have some input from nova here
09:22:21 <anteaya> jlibosva: good question it is important to check
09:22:38 <anteaya> jlibosva: you can't know everything
09:22:48 <anteaya> and I prefer people ask
09:23:04 <anteaya> since if you do't know there are probably others that don't know either
09:23:11 <anteaya> thanks for giving me the chance to clarify
09:23:20 <anteaya> so yes, let's move onto the next topic
09:23:33 <anteaya> #topic Nova spec, do we need one? if yes, who will create it?
09:23:54 <anteaya> so right now joe doesn't feel we need a separate nova spec
09:24:08 <anteaya> or if we do, it will just be a pointer to the neutron spec
09:24:35 <anteaya> we have gotten permission from michael still to have a nova spec exception if we need it
09:24:45 <anteaya> since this is a high priority effort
09:24:50 <belmoreira> anteaya: but there are any nova changes expected?
09:25:01 <obondarev> belmoreira: I guess so
09:25:03 <anteaya> belmoreira: good question
09:25:11 <anteaya> well I don't know exactly
09:25:35 <anteaya> this is one of the things I want clarified in the next patchset for the neutron spec
09:25:58 <anteaya> so after that patchset is posted hopefully we all will have a clearer picture
09:26:08 <obondarev> not sure it's good to include technical detail of changes in neutron and in nova into one single spec..
09:26:11 <obondarev> ok
09:26:20 <anteaya> obondarev: true
09:26:32 <anteaya> but let's see what shape the new patchset takes
09:26:42 <anteaya> and then comment in reviews
09:26:54 <obondarev> makes sense
09:27:10 <anteaya> but the short version is that _if_ we need a nova spec, we have gotten permission to create one
09:27:19 <anteaya> even though it is passed the deadline
09:27:22 <obondarev> awesome
09:27:33 <belmoreira> anteaya: great
09:27:34 <anteaya> one of the things we talked about at our in person meeting
09:27:47 <anteaya> is that this effort keeps being hindered by the release cycle
09:27:57 <anteaya> so we need to keep up this effort
09:28:05 <anteaya> we don't know if we can make kilo or not
09:28:17 <anteaya> but if we don't, we need to stay focused and keep working
09:28:33 <anteaya> since dropping off work due to a release really puts us behind
09:28:44 <anteaya> so we are going to focus on agreeing to the work first
09:28:56 <anteaya> and not worry about deadlines for releases
09:29:06 <belmoreira> anteaya: +1
09:29:15 <anteaya> folks on both sides neutron and nova have agreed to this
09:29:44 <anteaya> so if we see an obstacle we have support to keep working and have folks help to move the obstacle out of the way
09:30:03 <anteaya> any more thoughts here or comments?
09:30:45 <anteaya> I'll take that as no
09:30:54 <anteaya> and move onto the next topic
09:31:05 <anteaya> #topic documentation
09:31:16 <anteaya> so in patchset 3 of the neutron spec
09:31:33 <anteaya> annegentle_ offered to recommend someone to help with documentation
09:31:39 <obondarev> so Edgar was willing to help with this
09:31:41 <anteaya> I think this is a great idea
09:31:45 <anteaya> obondarev: wonderful
09:31:55 <anteaya> we can't ahve too much help in documentation
09:32:04 <obondarev> as he stated here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-nova-network-to-neutron
09:32:04 <obondarev> didn't have a chance to reach him yet
09:32:14 <obondarev> agree
09:32:16 <anteaya> I would like to follow up with annegentle_ to see who she might recommend
09:32:25 <anteaya> obondarev: great, would you like to follow up?
09:32:46 <anteaya> obondarev: can you talk with both edgar and annegentle_?
09:32:59 <obondarev> sure
09:33:02 <anteaya> better to have too much help in documentation rather than not enough
09:33:18 <obondarev> I'll reach Edgar shortly
09:33:19 <anteaya> plus that also gets us more review eyes on patches
09:33:25 <anteaya> obondarev: great thanks
09:33:39 <anteaya> let's keep documentation as a regular topic for this meeting
09:33:57 <obondarev> +1
09:33:59 <anteaya> so we can have your report obondarev next week on how you have made out
09:34:03 <anteaya> great thank you
09:34:10 <obondarev> sure
09:34:16 <anteaya> any one have anything else for documentation?
09:34:26 <jlibosva> nope
09:34:30 <anteaya> great
09:34:32 <anteaya> moving on
09:34:38 <anteaya> #topic testing
09:35:15 <anteaya> so right now the testing portion of the spec is a little thin
09:35:25 <obondarev> it is
09:35:33 <anteaya> that is to be understood as how to test this migration is largely unknown
09:35:48 <anteaya> belmoreira: have you given any thought to what you would like to see for testing?
09:36:05 <obondarev> I'd say it's known on a high level
09:36:19 <anteaya> obondarev: okay
09:36:27 <belmoreira> anteaya: what we are looking is if can be sone by stagaes (cell by cell)
09:36:33 <anteaya> but I think we need some detail
09:36:43 <anteaya> belmoreira: okay
09:37:11 <anteaya> belmoreira: have you made any comments or suggestions in the testing portion of the spec yet?
09:37:26 <anteaya> sorry I haven't gone though the history of all the comments
09:37:30 <belmoreira> we can setup "test cells" that we migrate for testing
09:37:49 <anteaya> belmoreira: we meaning cern or we meaning openstack infra?
09:38:33 <belmoreira> anteaya: this is how we at CERN are thinking to test all of this
09:39:10 <anteaya> belmoreira: great, can you add some comments to the spec outlining what you have thought about for testing from CERN's point of view?
09:39:27 <belmoreira> anteaya: yes
09:39:28 <anteaya> infra will be limited regarding what we can test
09:39:54 <anteaya> belmoreira: great thank you, that way we can incorporate what processes you can offer into the spec
09:40:19 <anteaya> is there anything else we can talk about regarding testing right now?
09:41:11 <anteaya> I think we have a good place to start expanding that section then
09:41:14 <anteaya> thanks belmoreira
09:41:20 <anteaya> I'll move on
09:41:30 <anteaya> #topic Open Discussion
09:41:54 <anteaya> does anyone have anything they would like to mention or discuss that we haven't already covered?
09:42:32 <jlibosva> I would just like to update I did some work on dump/translate/restore nova db to neutron as per discussion with Oleg
09:42:43 <anteaya> jlibosva: thank you
09:42:49 <obondarev> great!
09:42:51 <anteaya> have you a link to your work?
09:43:32 <jlibosva> nope, only locally. I plan to push WIP once it does some real translation (e.g. translate and create network)
09:43:54 <anteaya> jlibosva: let's get in the habit of submitting things to gerrit early
09:44:00 <anteaya> even if they don't work
09:44:08 <anteaya> and marking them work in progress
09:44:21 <jlibosva> ok
09:44:26 <anteaya> thank you
09:44:37 <anteaya> I think it will save time in the long run
09:44:47 <anteaya> and help others to see what we are thinking
09:44:57 <anteaya> and hopefully reduce false starts
09:45:14 <anteaya> and let's bring the urls for those wip patches to this meeting
09:45:23 <anteaya> so we can look at them and discuss them
09:45:32 <jlibosva> makes sense
09:45:37 <obondarev> agree
09:45:38 <anteaya> thanks jlibosva
09:45:58 <anteaya> and thanks for your work here, I look forward to reviewing the patches
09:46:17 <anteaya> I want you to feel supported in your work
09:46:24 <anteaya> so let's show it off
09:46:39 <obondarev> anteaya: many thanks for your help and for for organizing these meetings
09:46:50 <anteaya> obondarev: my pleasure, glad to help
09:47:03 <anteaya> and thanks for understanding and supporting my role here
09:47:08 <anteaya> :D
09:47:21 <anteaya> shall we discuss anything else?
09:48:31 <anteaya> well I think we have had a good second meeting, thanks obondarev for including a log of the first meeting in the ml post
09:48:46 <obondarev> anteaya: sure
09:49:02 <obondarev> thanks everyone for joining!
09:49:27 <belmoreira> thank you all for this amazing effort
09:49:32 <anteaya> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-December/053522.html
09:49:49 <anteaya> and on that note, let's conclude the meeting
09:50:09 <anteaya> see you all next week, don't stay quiet if you encounter blocks
09:50:16 <anteaya> find someone and get unstuck
09:50:24 <anteaya> thank you all
09:50:28 <anteaya> #endmeeting