21:03:19 <ttx> #startmeeting
21:03:20 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Sep 27 21:03:19 2011 UTC.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:03:21 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
21:03:30 <ttx> Welcome to our weekly team meeting... Today's agenda is at:
21:03:38 <ttx> #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/TeamMeeting
21:03:46 <ttx> #topic Actions from previous meeting
21:03:58 <ttx> * ttx to push his session propose rant to the ML: DONE
21:04:08 <ttx> #topic 2011.3 release postmortem
21:04:17 <ttx> so we started that earlier...
21:04:26 <ttx> Last Thursday we released OpenStack 2011.3.
21:04:38 <ttx> While the memory is still present, anything we need to do differently next time ?
21:05:10 <pvo> ttx: fwiw, we're getting some dedicated QA folks to work embedded with us.
21:05:13 <notmyname> ttx: beyond the big picture issues of releases and versioning, the diablo swift release went well
21:05:18 <ttx> personally, like I just mentioned, I think we've not been focused enough on the milestone-proposed branch over the last month
21:05:33 <ttx> resulting in a few high-profile bugs in the release on Nova/Glance side
21:05:39 <pvo> ttx: I agree with you, though we're running pretty close to trunk for our Alpha and fixing a lot of issues that arise.
21:05:42 <jaypipes> ttx: ++
21:05:53 <ttx> I'm not sure adding more time would have changed anything though, except increase Vish and Jay pain
21:06:06 <ttx> We need a mindset change -- developers caring more about the project deliverables
21:06:20 <pvo> ttx: I 100% agree with you there.
21:06:21 <jaypipes> instead of cramming in features at the last minute?
21:06:29 <vishy> ttx: real deployment tests
21:06:45 <vishy> ttx: we found out about major bugs as soon as people actually tried it out
21:06:51 <ttx> jaypipes: the release cycle should ensure that -- do you think we (I) was a bit light on that front ?
21:07:03 <annegentle> I think that expectations around an incubated project were difficult when reality hit.
21:07:21 <jaypipes> vishy: right, which is why integration tests are so important to gate  trunk...
21:07:22 <ttx> (Note: Adaptations to the cycle will be discussed during the "Essex release cycle" session at the summit)
21:07:28 <jaypipes> annegentle: yup
21:07:43 <vishy> ttx: i thought the main issue is all of the teams were getting pulled away focusing on their own deliverables
21:08:02 <ttx> vishy: not sure how we can address that though
21:08:06 <annegentle> I don't think testing is all of it though, having an ops mindset would help as well, for docs especially.
21:08:30 <jaypipes> vishy: well, that is because those "own deliverables" don't take into account a real baking/QA process for weeks before the release. feature work just continues at a feverish pace instead of testing and bug fixing focus
21:08:38 <pvo> vishy: I think thats true for most teams
21:08:39 <ttx> vishy: well, I have a few ideas, you heard them last week :)
21:08:56 <notmyname> automated tests are not QA
21:09:17 <jaypipes> notmyname: they are better than nothing.
21:09:26 <ttx> notmyname: could you enlighten us on the mysterious QA that Swift undergoes inside RAX ?
21:09:35 <ttx> notmyname: seems to be working wekk
21:09:37 <ttx> well
21:09:38 <notmyname> jaypipes: yes, but they don't replace QA
21:10:04 <jaypipes> notmyname: and if we could write a functional/integration test suite based on the *specs*, that would be rocking. Unfortunately, the specs being driven by the implementation means that this is nigh impossible.
21:10:06 <notmyname> ttx: we have 2 dedicated QA testers who do end-to-end testing at scale across all deployments
21:10:26 <jaypipes> notmyname: that's awesome, but not all teams have those resources.
21:10:39 <jaypipes> notmyname: and are you referring to just cloud files?
21:10:54 <jaypipes> notmyname: because I am referring to the whole kit and caboodle :)
21:11:27 <ttx> ok, we won't resolve all here and now, but think about what we need to change and come with your ideas at the design summit
21:11:50 <ttx> because we need to improve
21:12:11 <jaypipes> I'm not trying to be argumentative, just stating some obvious things...
21:12:37 <ttx> jaypipes: I completely agree with you, in the end it's a question of project-centered resources
21:12:49 <ttx> jaypipes: but you know that already :)
21:12:55 <jaypipes> indeed
21:13:18 <ttx> Which brings us to the next subject, unless someone has anything more definitive to add
21:13:38 <ttx> #topic Design Summit
21:13:54 <ttx> If you are a registered attendee, you still have until the end of today to submit your session proposals
21:14:21 <ttx> We already have enough, so only submit one if a critical subject is missing :)
21:14:28 <ttx> Any question on session proposing ?
21:14:35 <carlp> Do we know when that list will be finalized and scheduled?
21:15:21 <ttx> carlp: well, first step is to get them all, so that we know how many we have to refuse
21:15:38 <carlp> ttx: hehe fair enough :)
21:15:50 <ttx> I hope we can get a final list of sessions by Thursday, and the schedule will be work in progress until the start of the summit
21:16:10 <ttx> we'll do a quick overview of tracks during this meeting
21:16:41 <ttx> The "OpenStack Core" track is already full with interesting talks
21:16:52 <ttx> Lots of proposals in the "Other" track as well
21:17:11 <ttx> It looks like we'll have to move a few of the proposals from there to the Unconference
21:17:31 <ttx> Any question on the summit, before we move to Swift ?
21:18:48 <ttx> #topic Swift status
21:18:53 <ttx> notmyname: o/
21:18:58 <notmyname> howdy
21:19:05 <ttx> Is the Swift track for the summit coming together ?
21:19:19 <notmyname> yes. all of the submitted sessions have been reviewed
21:19:39 <notmyname> I think some the discovery sessions (currently on hold) are as important as the others
21:19:45 <notmyname> really hope they can get in
21:19:58 <ttx> notmyname: any chance you could tell me which ones are the most important ?
21:20:14 <ttx> notmyname: note that the others can be scheduled in the unconference anyway
21:20:25 <notmyname> ya, I can follow up with a priority list
21:20:30 <ttx> cool, thx
21:20:45 <notmyname> looks like a lot of good stuff covered, though
21:20:45 <ttx> Anything else ?
21:20:55 <notmyname> not from me
21:21:27 <notmyname> any questions?
21:21:37 <ttx> notmyname: when we have a near-final list of sessions, I'll ask you (and the other PTLs) for a list of sessions you need to attend, so that I try to build the schedule in a way that allows you to attend them all
21:21:38 <jaypipes> notmyname: yes, were you referring to just Cloud Files above?
21:21:56 <notmyname> jaypipes: with QA?
21:22:00 <jaypipes> notmyname: yes.
21:22:16 <jaypipes> "we have 2 dedicated QA testers who do end-to-end testing at scale across all deployments"
21:22:33 <notmyname> jaypipes: yes. we have 2 QA people for cloud files. cloud files == swift, for all intents and purposes
21:22:45 <jaypipes> notmyname: OK. Thank you.
21:23:04 <ttx> #topic Glance status
21:23:04 <jaypipes> notmyname: I was trying to determine whether you were referring to QA folks who were testing an OpenStack deployment
21:23:23 <ttx> Any high-profile bug in Glance 2011.3 ?
21:23:26 <notmyname> jaypipes: yes. a swift deployment is an openstack deployment, is it not?
21:23:44 <jaypipes> ttx: had one major bug that didn't make it into diablo final (my mistake... just missed it in milestone-proposed)
21:23:57 <jaypipes> notmyname: I was referring to OpenStack - the entire project.
21:24:03 <jaypipes> notmyname: but I see your point.
21:24:06 <ttx> We should at the very least mention it in the release notes, with links to patches/commits, if not done already
21:24:14 <jaypipes> ttx: yes, doing so.
21:24:17 <ttx> #link http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseNotes/Diablo
21:24:26 <ttx> ...so that downstream can fix it in their packaging.
21:24:30 <jaypipes> ttx: there is the broader discussion needed about a maintenance branch
21:24:46 <jaypipes> ttx: yes, already working with smoser on it. will edit the release notes.
21:24:57 <ttx> jaypipes: Daviey is filing one
21:25:01 <jaypipes> ttx: all glance track sessions are reviewed.
21:25:07 <ttx> (session on maintenance branch)
21:25:11 <jaypipes> ttx: k
21:25:22 <ttx> Is the Glance track starting to look cool ?
21:25:35 <jaypipes> ttx: as cool as talking about an image service will be.
21:25:54 <jaypipes> ttx: I'm excited more about some OpenStack Core sessions ;)
21:25:57 <ttx> a "cloud" image service !
21:26:18 <ttx> Other questions on Glance ?
21:26:27 * jaypipes very excited about the new Ceph/RADOS driver contributed today... an alternate high-available/distributed storage driver
21:27:26 <ttx> #topic Nova status
21:27:41 <ttx> vishy: o/
21:27:47 <vishy> heyo
21:27:49 <ttx> So, a few days later, is Earth still standing ?
21:28:04 <vishy> well as I've mentioned a few times there were a few nasty bugs that made it in
21:28:09 <vishy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=diablo-backport
21:28:17 <Vek> (technically, Earth doesn't "stand"...)
21:28:26 <vishy> source security groups are broken, block migration is broken
21:28:53 <ttx> vishy: are they documented in release notes ?
21:28:54 <vishy> and the two pretty nasty ones are 1) in some cases flatdhcp will remove your default gateway
21:29:32 <vishy> 2) the db-pool will blow up on any allocations that use lockmode concurrently
21:29:43 <vishy> ttx: no they are not
21:30:41 <ttx> vishy: would be good to have them, so that other downstreams know what to apply. I know canonical is on top of the issues, but others might be interested in pointers
21:30:54 <ttx> at least until we can have that discussion on stable branches
21:31:29 <markmc> ttx, Fedora is using vishy's diablo-backport tag to know what to cherry-pick too
21:31:44 <ttx> markmc: good.
21:31:51 <Daviey> o/
21:31:52 <vishy> i will add them to the release notes
21:31:57 <Daviey> markmc: Interesting!
21:32:18 <markmc> Daviey, will cherry-pick into https://github.com/markmc/nova/tree/fedora-patches
21:32:26 <Daviey> markmc: I want, no need, you at http://summit.openstack.org/sessions/view/106
21:32:34 <markmc> Daviey, will be there :)
21:32:49 <ttx> vishy: The Nova track(s) are still very much work in progress...
21:33:00 <Daviey> currently we are carrying flat, cherrry picked patches in Ubuntu packages.
21:33:04 <Daviey> This is bad team play.
21:33:06 <ttx> vishy: did you find time to submit any session you feel is missing from them ?
21:33:17 <vishy> yes, I've been doing some reviewing
21:33:21 <vishy> i just submitted two
21:33:47 * ttx looks at his pretty graph going through the roof
21:34:39 <ttx> vishy: anything else on your mind ?
21:35:28 <Daviey> That is a very open ended question.
21:35:45 <vishy> nope
21:35:47 <ttx> vishy, jaypipes: we haven't any "discovery" session in Glance and Nova
21:36:13 <ttx> I think they offer a great opportunity to recruit for specific areas of code
21:36:22 <ttx> should we ask for a bit more ?
21:37:00 <vishy> ttx: I should do one on networking
21:37:56 <ttx> vishy: I was wondering if we should have a 101 to cover i18n, logging, command execution...
21:38:33 <Daviey> vishy: a session on all nova-* components sounds useful IMO.
21:38:52 <Daviey> For example, i imagine people would like to be more involved in scheduling algorithms
21:39:13 <vishy> Daviey: sandywalsh should do another one on scheduling
21:39:18 <vishy> that was great last time
21:39:39 <Daviey> nova-api enrichment?
21:39:55 <ttx> ok, we'll work on that for the remaining of the week
21:40:01 <ttx> Other questions on Nova ?
21:40:33 <ttx> #topic Keystone status
21:41:01 <ttx> zns: o/
21:41:14 <ttx> So it looks like we still need a Diablo-compatible release of Keystone, any ETA on that ?
21:43:09 <ttx> hmm, looks like we've lost zns
21:43:29 <ttx> devcamcar: around ? Maybe we can do you first
21:43:37 <devcamcar> o/
21:43:40 <ttx> #topic "Dashboard" status
21:43:53 <ttx> devcamcar: There aren't so many sessions around Dashboard proposed.
21:44:09 <ttx> Maybe you should split "Dashboard Diablo review and Essex roadmap" into something more... descriptive ?
21:44:28 <devcamcar> ttx: i'd be happy to split diablo review and essex planning up, certainly could use the time
21:44:43 <devcamcar> our general update is that we're trying to land a version compatible with diablo and the latest changes to keystone
21:44:48 <ttx> devcamcar: we don't really do retrospectives at the summit
21:45:18 <devcamcar> ttx: fair enough, i can split up into a few smaller more descriptive chunks
21:45:21 <heckj> (maybe we should)
21:45:50 <devcamcar> we only have a few outstanding issues with keystone
21:46:07 <devcamcar> i am hopeful we can land a "preview" version compatible with diablo whenever keystone is ready for us to
21:46:12 <devcamcar> we are ready now
21:46:15 <ttx> heckj: I think I didn't express myself correctly. I mean, we are not doing a full session to look at the features we just added -- the idea is to look forward
21:46:24 <ttx> heckj: doesn't prevent learning from mistakes :)
21:46:31 * Daviey remembers to take rotten fruit with him to throw at people for retrospective/post-mortem sessions.
21:46:42 <devcamcar> ttx: i have lots of idea to split up into smaller sessions, i will take your advice and do that
21:47:00 <ttx> devcamcar: that allows people to know what they are going to see
21:47:32 <devcamcar> i do want to say thanks to the folks at rackspace who have helped us with keystone migrations during diablo cycle
21:47:36 <devcamcar> and that is my update
21:47:46 <ttx> Questions on "Dashboard" ?
21:48:20 <Daviey> Is Diablo dashboard released now?
21:48:20 <ttx> devcamcar: do you need 25min for your naming ceremony ? I thought it could be done as a lightning talk on the first day
21:48:41 <ttx> i.e. put names on wall, let people yell for a bit, then choose.
21:48:46 <devcamcar> ttx: lightning talk is good with me
21:48:56 <ttx> ok, will decline that one then
21:49:24 <Daviey> devcamcar: ^^
21:49:38 <devcamcar> Daviey: we will drop code as soon as keystone is ready
21:49:43 <devcamcar> Daviey: hopefully in the next week
21:50:04 <Daviey> devcamcar: ok, thanks.
21:50:17 <ttx> zns: around ?
21:50:37 <ttx> anyone from keystone ?
21:50:50 <ttx> danwent: around ?
21:50:53 <danwent> yup
21:50:58 <ttx> #topic Incubated project news
21:51:03 <danwent> Quantum diablo was released on friday
21:51:16 <danwent> now includes a v1.0 spec and a draft administrator guide
21:51:24 * annegentle cheers
21:51:24 <ttx> Congrats on that
21:51:24 <danwent> appropriate for "early adopters" :)
21:51:31 <danwent> thanks.
21:51:45 <danwent> Please check out the NetStack track for the Essex summit, lots of great things to talk about in Boston
21:52:06 <annegentle> danwent: so can I just point a Jenkins job to your source repo to build the docs?
21:52:12 <danwent> in particular, several people have contacted us about how to integrate higher level network services
21:52:27 <danwent> so we will have a session or two on that.  if you build things that plug into networks, please drop by.
21:53:02 <danwent> annegentle: sorry, still need to reply to your mail.  yes, we'll get the docbook sources into repos so we can build them automatically
21:53:10 <danwent> that's all from me
21:53:12 <annegentle> danwent: great, thanks
21:53:40 <ttx> danwent: are you going to edit the sessions based on Ram's feedback ?
21:53:54 <ttx> danwent: I still need a prioritized list, btw
21:54:00 <danwent> ttx: ram already edited some himself, I will edit others based on feedback from the team
21:54:01 <ttx> so that I can start accepting the most important ones
21:54:26 <danwent> I was waiting to see if anyone was planning on proposing anythign else, will know this by the end of the netstack meeting today :)
21:54:35 <danwent> hopefully everything is in already
21:55:21 <ttx> Anything else ?
21:55:23 <bmcconne> just wanted to say I've been running quantum for a few weeks now and it's been quite stable for me. working well :)
21:55:43 <danwent> bmcconne: great to hear :)
21:55:46 <danwent> ttx: that's all
21:56:13 <ttx> zns / anyone from the Keystone crew ?
21:57:04 <ttx> I guess we won't have them today
21:57:19 <ttx> fwiw I'm working with Joe Savak on finalizing the Keystone track at the summit
21:57:25 <annegentle> ttx: I just asked yogirackspace to join
21:57:36 <ttx> yogirackspace: welcome !
21:57:41 <yogirackspace> thanks!
21:57:43 <ttx> #topic Keystone status
21:58:01 <ttx> yogirackspace: Any news on ETA for a Diablo-compatible release of Keystone ?
21:58:48 <yogirackspace> all the calls that were supposed to work we have completed as of now
21:59:30 <ttx> do you plan to release / tag something D / 1.0 / 2011.3 ?
21:59:36 <yogirackspace> we shall be tagging soon
21:59:42 <devcamcar> yogirackspace: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/857671
21:59:43 <uvirtbot> Launchpad bug 857671 in keystone "Auth protocol doesn't work properly for admin users" [Undecided,New]
21:59:49 <yogirackspace> would let every one know when it happens
21:59:50 <devcamcar> this one is needed for dashboard
22:00:08 <yogirackspace> we are working on pending things and wrapping up
22:00:28 <yogirackspace> would make sure that all issues are addressed
22:00:40 <devcamcar> yogirackspace: can you be more specific than "soon"?
22:01:17 <yogirackspace> need to talk with others as well.Would end of week (max) suit every one?
22:01:39 <devcamcar> having something i could release for dashboard before the summit sure would be nice
22:01:48 <devcamcar> but dropping code friday doesn't give us much time
22:01:53 <devcamcar> but i'll take it
22:02:13 <yogirackspace> time outlined is worst case
22:02:25 <ttx> yogirackspace: was saying just before you joined I'm working with Joe Savak on finalizing the Keystone track at the summit
22:02:26 <yogirackspace> we might veryfy everything and might release tomorrow
22:02:40 <devcamcar> ok tomorrow then, will hold you to that :)
22:02:51 <ttx> yogirackspace: anything else on your mind ?
22:02:58 <yogirackspace> might => a mighty word ;)
22:04:06 <yogirackspace> we have started implementing
22:04:12 <yogirackspace> our extensions
22:04:28 <yogirackspace> and also finding featyres for Essex
22:04:47 <yogirackspace> would keep every one posted if there is anything else
22:05:05 <edgarmagana> hello world!
22:05:28 <danwent> edgar: network meeting hasn't started yet
22:05:53 <ttx> time running up
22:05:54 <ttx> #topic Open discussion
22:06:06 <ttx> anything / anyone before we let our networked friends take over ?
22:06:29 <annegentle> Thursday morning of the Conference portion of next week I'd like to hold a discussion about how to get more women involved in OpenStack. All welcome!
22:06:59 <vishy> annegentle: Nice!
22:07:19 <ttx> annegentle: I promise I didn't reject any woman from the summit waiting list. There just wasn't any.
22:07:24 <annegentle> We may even have a yoga class or something to enlighten our minds prior to discussion. :)
22:07:32 <annegentle> ttx: yes, understood.
22:07:42 <annegentle> of course :)
22:08:37 <ttx> ok then
22:08:40 <ttx> #endmeeting