00:00:34 <Daisy> #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting
00:00:35 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Nov 21 00:00:34 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:00:36 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
00:00:39 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'
00:00:53 <Daisy> Good morning/evening, everyone.
00:01:00 <Daisy> Welcome to I18n meeting.
00:01:12 <Daisy> We have ujuc, macjack, and zero00072.
00:01:13 <macjack> Good morning everyone
00:01:15 <ujuc> Hi :)
00:01:26 <Daisy> Do we have anybody else ?
00:01:43 <Daisy> No?
00:02:04 <Daisy> OK, people may join us in the meeting.
00:02:33 <Daisy> #topic Horizon translation update
00:02:54 <Daisy> The first stable Havana update (2013.2.1) is plalned in early Dec. Julie and Akihiro suggested to include Horizon improved translation.
00:02:59 <amotoki> hi, i need to leave soon but can join for a while.
00:03:06 <Daisy> Great, amotoki!
00:03:15 <Daisy> We need you in the early part.
00:03:28 <Daisy> I agree with Julie and Akihiro.
00:03:40 <Daisy> So let's set a deadline and if any languages team have translation update, please send email to mailing list and Akihiro will help to update.
00:04:14 <Daisy> amotoki: do you know the exact date of Havana (2013.2.1)?
00:04:20 <ujuc> OK :)
00:04:33 <amotoki> i haven't checked the detail date. perhaps we can check stable-maint list to knwo it.
00:04:35 <Daisy> amotoki: do you have any suggestions to the deadline of translation update?
00:04:58 <Daisy> amotoki: can you help to check the exact date?
00:05:00 <amotoki> i think importing will be done just before freeze.
00:05:26 <amotoki> Daisy: yeah.
00:05:34 <Daisy> Thanks. amotoki.
00:05:48 <Daisy> Another question for you, amotoki.
00:05:57 <Daisy> Is the translation verification test website still runnable or not ?
00:06:18 <amotoki> it is still running but automated import is stopped now.
00:06:30 <amotoki> i usually use it for demo :-)
00:06:36 <Daisy> are you going to start the automation import ?
00:06:54 <amotoki> can resume it if needed
00:07:03 <Daisy> ok. Thanks.
00:07:36 <Daisy> #action amotoki to check the exact freeze date of Havana (2013.2.1) and suggest the last deadline to the mailing list.
00:07:41 <amotoki> i have a question about transifex resource: horizon vs horizon_havana.
00:07:55 <Daisy> Yes, i'm going to address this issue now.
00:08:09 <Daisy> We have finished Havana translation. And Horzion is moving to Icehouse. I will prefer to copy the existing resources to Icehouse version, and rename the existing resource with a Havana suffix. Then we will keep both Havana and Icehouse version in Transifex, with different suffix.
00:08:26 <Daisy> How do you think, amotoki ?
00:08:31 <amotoki> sounds nice.
00:08:42 <Daisy> Great. so I will do it after the meeting.
00:09:13 <Daisy> #action Daisy to rename exisiting resources in Horizon with a Havana suffix.
00:09:14 <amotoki> as julie said, some string updates are under review. I will update POT file to transifex (havana) directly
00:09:57 <Daisy> Nice, amotoki.
00:10:12 <Daisy> When you are done, don't forget to send a mail to ML.
00:10:18 <amotoki> sure
00:10:37 <Daisy> anything do you want to talk in the first topic: Horizon stable release?
00:10:45 <Daisy> If no, we will move to next topic.
00:10:48 <amotoki> nothing from me.
00:11:03 <Daisy> #topic I18n team structure discussion
00:11:19 <Daisy> The mission of our team, as written in wiki, is
00:11:28 <Daisy> to make OpenStack ubiquitously accessible to people of all language backgrounds, by providing a framework to create high quality translations, recruiting contributors and actively managing and planning the translation process.
00:11:49 <Daisy> The explaination in "by providing..." is much focus on translation. But I18n is more than translation.
00:12:10 <Daisy> Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization to get the explaination of I18n and L10n.
00:12:23 <Daisy> In my mind, I18n team will cover more than translation, for example, in design summit, we proposed two blue prints:
00:12:31 <Daisy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id
00:12:38 <Daisy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/separate-translation-decorators
00:12:48 <Daisy> They are code refactors, but they are much related with I18n and L10n.
00:12:53 <amotoki> sorry for interrupt.
00:12:56 <amotoki> i need to leave now. i would like to know what and how i should do for ja doc index page (one of action items). let me know after the meeting.
00:13:07 <amotoki> bye
00:13:11 <Daisy> OK. I will send you email. Bye.
00:13:19 <Daisy> By studying the I18n teams of other open source communities, I think, we can rename our translation team to Localization team. Localization team will reponsible for openstack localization, including the translation.
00:13:25 <ujuc> bye :)
00:13:43 <Daisy> Two examples: https://l10n.gnome.org/teams/ and http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/
00:14:01 <Daisy> Any comments, till now?
00:15:00 <Daisy> Then we will have I18n core team and L10n sub-teams.
00:15:03 <Daisy> I18n core team will include the leaders (or the coordinators) in L10n sub-teams and developers who would like to contribute to OpenStack I18n features.
00:15:10 <zero00072> I think it is right.
00:15:16 <Daisy> Thanks, zero00072
00:15:27 <Daisy> L10n team includes leaders (or coordinators), translators, developers who would like to localize openstack, and even testers.
00:15:27 <ujuc> crate new loco tem?
00:15:45 <Daisy> Not new, I think. Just rename the translation team to loco team.
00:16:08 <ujuc> Ok :)
00:16:15 <macjack> good idea, Daisy
00:16:37 <laserjetyang> but it is not only translation, and also need to approach different component to make sure they are enabled with globalization?
00:16:58 <Daisy> Now most members in L10n team are translators. That's OK. We can give time for the team to grow.
00:17:07 <Daisy> Yes, laserjetyang.
00:17:14 <Daisy> Not only translation.
00:17:15 <zero00072> Doing translation is something l10n team's work.
00:17:16 <zero00072> I have seem KDE i18n project renamed to l10n project in Debian.
00:17:54 <Daisy> Anyway, it's my proposal.
00:18:25 <Daisy> I think, we need broad discussion in the mailing list, not only i18n mailing list but also dev mailing list to see people's opinions.
00:18:40 <Daisy> If we only do translation, that's much easier.
00:18:52 <Daisy> If we want to do code refactor, we need support of dev mailing list.
00:19:00 <laserjetyang> agree,
00:19:35 <laserjetyang> but with the push from i18n point of view, it shoud be easier to make it happen
00:19:52 <Daisy> I'd like to understand how much Python knowledges do you have and if you would like to contribute code. Just a small survey.
00:20:09 <Daisy> If we say: we want to do code refactor, surely we need people who can do this job.
00:20:26 <Daisy> ujuc: can you write python program?
00:20:37 <Daisy> how about you, macjack and zero00072?
00:20:41 <ujuc> litle :)
00:20:48 <Daisy> Good, ujuc.
00:21:13 <zero00072> I love Ruby than Python. Haha
00:21:20 <ujuc> KKK
00:21:27 <ujuc> :))
00:21:41 <Daisy> :)). They are similar, zero00072.
00:21:41 <zero00072> Anyway, some Python Code I can read and write.
00:21:50 <Daisy> Nice, zero00072.
00:22:12 <macjack> Daisy python is awesom but did do that for a whilw
00:22:35 <Daisy> I believe, we will have very simple development jobs in I18n areas.
00:22:45 <Daisy> At that time, we can have a try.
00:22:54 <macjack> Daisy: used to try to deep dive into Django code ever
00:23:04 <Daisy> Thanks, macjack. Very good.
00:23:18 <Daisy> I know a little Python too, I can write simple program. My background is in Java.
00:23:45 <Daisy> ok. So I will move this discussion to the mailing list.
00:24:00 <Daisy> #topic Blueprints & bugs tracking
00:24:23 <Daisy> We can use Launchpad to track the bugs and blueprints.
00:24:30 <Daisy> My question is what to track?
00:24:35 <Daisy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n
00:24:42 <Daisy> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-i18n
00:24:53 <fifieldt> (sorry I'm late)
00:24:59 <Daisy> Welcome, fifieldt.
00:25:28 <Daisy> As to the bug, we can track our translation errors reported by users.
00:25:50 <Daisy> Anything else can we track in Launchpad openstack-i18n?
00:26:19 <macjack> great to see you fifieldt :)
00:26:30 <zero00072> So, we need to add a button to Horizon so that any one can reatch the tracking system?
00:26:41 <Daisy> Most of code errors in I18n areas are tracking in their own project in Launchpad.
00:27:49 <Daisy> zero00072, I wonder if Horizon team agree. I suggest you to discuss with Akihiro Motoki and Julie Pichon.
00:28:15 <Daisy> At least, we need a place to allow our users to report errors to us.
00:28:29 <Daisy> We can write the link in our wiki.
00:28:36 <zero00072> Agree.
00:28:47 <Daisy> But what do we want to track in blueprints?
00:28:54 <Daisy> I have no idea now.
00:28:58 <ujuc> Ok :)
00:29:05 <laserjetyang> why not?
00:29:20 <Daisy> laserjetyang, what do you mean?
00:29:38 <laserjetyang> I mean, why not track in blueprints?
00:29:47 <Daisy> what should we track, I mean?
00:30:03 <Daisy> Yes, you are right, laserjetyang.
00:30:04 <laserjetyang> it should be similar to bug, to me most of the blueprints are to solve bugs
00:30:12 <fifieldt> I guess that most of our 'blueprint'-style things are about changes in the infrastructure ...
00:30:33 <Daisy> We can track our improvements in the translation platform, like the staging server for translate documents.
00:30:41 <Daisy> Right, fifieldt
00:30:44 <Daisy> That's the problem.
00:30:51 <fifieldt> so the question is whether we track it in openstack-ci
00:30:56 <fifieldt> or in openstack-i18n
00:31:07 <laserjetyang> ok, get your point
00:31:11 <fifieldt> given we need review assistance from #openstack-infra
00:31:16 <fifieldt> should we ask their preference?
00:31:28 <Daisy> good idea, fifieldt.
00:31:34 <Daisy> Let me do it.
00:31:51 <Daisy> I guess they would like to track in openstack-ci.
00:32:10 <Daisy> I don't know. Let me try.
00:32:29 <fifieldt> we could also create blueprints in both places
00:32:33 <fifieldt> since they are different audiences
00:32:45 <Daisy> #action Daisy to ask openstack-ci whether they would like to track I18n blueprints in openstack-i18n.
00:32:52 <fifieldt> i18n people could request features by making the blueprints in openstack-i18n
00:32:57 <ujuc> :)
00:33:01 <fifieldt> and then blueprints in openstack-ci could be created
00:33:04 * fifieldt shrugs
00:33:09 <Daisy> Then we bypass them to different projects?
00:33:25 <fifieldt> actually
00:33:25 <Daisy> then we pass them to different projects.
00:33:30 <fifieldt> we also have a 3rd option
00:33:44 <fifieldt> we could be testers of the new "Storyboard" tool
00:33:49 <fifieldt> which will replace launchpad
00:33:51 <fifieldt> for OpenStack
00:33:53 <fifieldt> in the future
00:34:09 <Daisy> we could. what's the benifit?
00:34:29 <fifieldt> better interface
00:34:32 <fifieldt> easier to use
00:34:43 <fifieldt> we could help drive the development & adoption
00:34:46 <Daisy> do they call for tester now?
00:34:55 <fifieldt> they have asked for "guinea pigs"
00:35:04 <fifieldt> so far UX team has consented to join
00:35:13 <Daisy> Then we could.
00:35:14 <fifieldt> but the software is still in early stage development
00:35:21 <macjack> Storyboard sounds interesting!!
00:35:44 <ujuc> lol
00:35:56 <Daisy> I18n team need to take a look and then make decision.
00:36:09 <fifieldt> https://github.com/openstack-infra/storyboard is the code so far
00:36:19 <Daisy> where is the live website?
00:36:52 <fifieldt> it is still being turned on, I think
00:36:57 <Daisy> ok.
00:37:10 <Daisy> Then we take a look at first, try it, and then we make decision.
00:37:18 <laserjetyang> it is still poc?
00:38:01 <Daisy> we move to next topic.
00:38:10 <Daisy> #topic Reorganize wiki page
00:39:04 <Daisy> We need to improve our wiki page, to make it better organized.
00:39:33 <fifieldt> +1
00:39:37 <Daisy> I want to clearly list I18n team and L10n teams, and localize L10n team.
00:39:55 <Daisy> Localize the page of L10n teams.
00:40:10 <Daisy> For example, we will have native language page for Taiwan L10n team.
00:40:35 <Daisy> And we provide a link to it in the main page of I18n team.
00:40:55 <Daisy> Any comments?
00:41:03 <zero00072> It's right, a native language page.
00:41:16 <macjack> Daisy great! great!
00:41:29 <Daisy> thanks, zero00072 and macjack.
00:42:16 <Daisy> Clearly guide people how to join and how to contribute, that's our goal.
00:42:28 <Daisy> Who would like to take this job?
00:42:49 <Daisy> Who want to work together with me to rre-organize our wiki pages?
00:43:27 <macjack> o/ me me, I can do that
00:43:35 <Daisy> Great, macjack.
00:43:38 <ujuc> :)
00:43:40 <macjack> pick it up
00:43:46 <zero00072> I also can.
00:43:59 <Daisy> #action macjack, zero00072, and Daisy to re-organize the wiki page.
00:44:43 <Daisy> macjack and zero00072, you can create a new wiki page to make the draft, then people can give suggestions. The current wiki page won't be affected.
00:44:56 <Daisy> Thank you.
00:44:57 <laserjetyang> in language other than english?
00:45:18 <Daisy> yes, we provide local language page for L10n teams.
00:45:23 <laserjetyang> great
00:45:33 <Daisy> ok, move to next
00:45:43 <Daisy> #topic Plans in Icehouse cycle
00:45:49 <macjack> Daisy: glad to do so
00:46:12 <Daisy> We need to make a plan for what we want to do in Icehouse.
00:46:20 <Daisy> firstly, document translation.
00:46:30 <Daisy> Again, operation guide translation.
00:47:00 <ujuc> operation guid version folsom? or havana?
00:47:11 <Daisy> Good question.
00:47:17 <Daisy> I think, they only have folsom, right?
00:47:28 <ujuc> um
00:47:29 <Daisy> Does operation guide have havana version?
00:47:36 <Daisy> ujuc, you don't like it?
00:48:20 <Daisy> Anne Gentle told me this year: operation guide is the top priority
00:48:20 <ujuc> noting :)
00:48:40 <Daisy> operation guide is a stable document.
00:48:47 <ujuc> ok :)
00:48:48 <Daisy> Not much changes at all.
00:49:25 <fifieldt> for now
00:49:31 <fifieldt> so, there is plan to make a havana version
00:49:49 <Daisy> fifieldt: will there be many changes?
00:50:23 <laserjetyang> there are many new components since Folsom
00:50:28 <laserjetyang> I think there should be new changes
00:50:40 <fifieldt> we don't know yet Daisy
00:50:53 <Daisy> Based on icehouse release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule
00:50:54 <fifieldt> it's going to take some effort event to say what needs to be updated
00:51:08 <zero00072> Which team build the guide documents?
00:51:14 <Daisy> String frozen is March 6th.
00:51:47 <Daisy> I think we need to start the message translation one month before March 6th, in order to catch the release date.
00:52:01 <Daisy> So before Feb 6th, we can do document translation.
00:52:38 <Daisy> We can have 1 document translated from now to Feb 6th.
00:52:55 <ujuc> OK :))
00:53:04 <zero00072> I think we need a dictionary site to save words and compare the words before we can translate the documents.
00:53:09 <Daisy> zero00072: it's doc team, I think.
00:53:24 <Daisy> Yes, we definitely need one.
00:53:41 <Daisy> Transifex has a place to save glossary.
00:54:01 <Daisy> We have imported openstack glossary into Transifex.
00:54:20 <Daisy> Besides glossary, we also need to summarize many common words too.
00:54:42 <Daisy> I believe there are some tools which can do the terminologies extraction.
00:55:12 <Daisy> zero00072: can you take a look at the terminology extraction tool and try it ?
00:55:35 <Daisy> We can use the tool to extract common words, and then we translate them at first.
00:55:45 <zero00072> OK, I will take a try.
00:55:49 <Daisy> Thanks, zero00072.
00:56:07 <Daisy> #action zero00072 to take a look at term extract tool.
00:56:33 <Daisy> #action Daisy to work with Anne Gentle to check which document is better to start translation.
00:56:58 <Daisy> OK. I have done what I want to talk.
00:57:01 <Daisy> Move to next topic
00:57:07 <Daisy> #topic Open discussion
00:57:39 <Daisy> Anything you want to talk ?
00:58:21 <Daisy> No?
00:58:41 <ujuc> Me, No~~o :)
00:58:42 <zero00072> I have no any disscussions.
00:58:46 <Daisy> OK.
00:58:49 <Daisy> We are just in time.
00:58:51 <macjack> no
00:59:02 <Daisy> #endmeeting