07:59:42 <Fdot> #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting
07:59:43 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Aug  7 07:59:42 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Fdot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:59:44 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
07:59:46 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'
07:59:49 <fifieldt> w00t
08:00:14 <Fdot> Good morning/evening everybody :)
08:00:25 <Fdot> who is here ?
08:00:34 <Steff00> steff00
08:00:35 <jpich> Morning!
08:00:41 <fifieldt> good afternoon
08:00:45 <Fdot> hello Steff00 jpich :)
08:00:47 <adiantum> good afternoon =)
08:00:47 <Steff00> hello everybody
08:00:47 <epico> good afternoon
08:00:51 <ujuc> hello
08:01:16 <Fdot> Hello :)
08:01:23 <ujuc> :)
08:01:34 <Fdot> Daisy is in holiday today, so I am going to drive this meeting
08:01:41 <Fdot> the agenda is very light
08:01:56 <Fdot> we are going to speak about the Documents’ categorization
08:02:12 <Fdot> and we will take some time for an open discussion
08:02:26 <Fdot> is there any subjects you would like to add to the agenda ?
08:03:27 <Fdot> ok we will see during the open discussion :)
08:03:34 <Fdot> #topic Documents’ categorization
08:04:05 <Fdot> In a previous meeting we have started to discuss about categorize the translation projects
08:04:17 <Fdot> there is now too many projects in transifex
08:04:29 <Fdot> and some projects are changing too much
08:04:50 <fifieldt> #link https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/
08:04:50 <Fdot> so for new translators it is difficult to see how to start
08:05:18 <Fdot> and they could be afraid about all the works
08:05:27 <Fdot> thanks fifieldt
08:05:47 <Fdot> so it could be interesting to categorize all the projects
08:05:55 <Fdot> and then defining priorities
08:06:09 <Fdot> we have started to discuss about this with Daisy
08:06:15 <Fdot> and we have 2 propositions :
08:06:25 <Fdot> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18nTeam/docs-translation
08:06:42 <Fdot> what do you think about this ? Any suggestion ?
08:08:08 <adiantum> looks pretty good, but not so much documents categorized
08:08:23 <Fdot> adiantum: it is just an example ;)
08:08:29 <fifieldt> anyone want to quickly l;ook at : https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n-manuals-classification ?
08:08:31 <adiantum> ok =)
08:08:34 <fifieldt> we could attempt to classify them now
08:08:51 <Fdot> I didn't add every projects before being agree about the format :)
08:09:13 <Steff00> seems to be a good thing . Who will classify the docs ?
08:10:01 <Fdot> Steff00: every volunteers are welcome :)
08:10:44 <fifieldt> so, I think stablity varies during the release cycle
08:10:57 <fifieldt> for instance, install-guide is stable for about a 3-4 week period every cycle
08:11:05 <fifieldt> so if we want to translate that, we should do it during that time
08:12:01 <adiantum> just a note, looks like we could use one heuristic - log translations is not very important, so all docs with type log could have low priopity
08:12:13 <AJaeger> sorry for beeing late - any question you have on Documents that I can help with?
08:12:18 <Fdot> adiantum: agree :)
08:12:32 <Fdot> AJaeger: hello :)
08:12:52 <fifieldt> AJaeger, see if you agree with the categorisations in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n-manuals-classification
08:13:02 * AJaeger checks
08:13:07 <Fdot> One important things a lot of contributors coming are not coming for only translating the documentation
08:13:31 <Fdot> they are also coming for translating services like Horizon
08:13:39 <adiantum> and how frequently changing common during release cycle?
08:14:12 <Fdot> so we have to add it into the list and priorization
08:14:28 <fifieldt> yes, common is a problem
08:14:46 <Fdot> common is moving too much and it is too big
08:15:26 <fifieldt> AJaeger, what do you think about moving the config tables out of common into config-reference
08:15:40 <AJaeger> Fdot, but common includes a couple of files that need translation - like the preface and appendix
08:15:42 <fifieldt> I don't think we really use them as 'common'
08:15:45 <AJaeger> fifieldt, sure, we can do that.
08:16:02 <fifieldt> I think to facilitate translation, common should be as small as possible
08:16:15 <AJaeger> be aware that we download in general only files that have at least 75 % translations with two exceptions: glossary and common (8 % each)
08:16:27 <AJaeger> fifieldt, propose a patch ;)
08:16:30 <Fdot> AJaeger: yes but 73,557 words :)
08:17:49 * AJaeger agrees with the classification on the etherpad and has commented on it
08:18:07 <Fdot> is it possible to move all the logs into one log common project ?
08:18:36 <fifieldt> actually, it's true that many log messages come from oslo.common
08:19:06 <AJaeger> Fdot, they come initially from oslo-incubation and the files get copied around
08:19:28 <fifieldt> There is a danger though that different projects use different versions of oslo
08:19:34 <AJaeger> With a couple of oslo libraries graduated now, we have a much better situation.
08:20:12 <AJaeger> They are now in *one* location - lke olso.messaging or oslo.i18n. Projects just need to update and remove the old oslo-incubation code and require the library instead
08:20:27 <AJaeger> My recommendation for now: Don't translate log message and wait a bit until this has settled...
08:20:46 <Fdot> AJaeger: ok
08:21:57 <Fdot> Etherpad is going to be usefull for completing the wiki page
08:21:59 <Fdot> thanks a lot
08:22:18 <Fdot> I am going to add all the informations and projects today
08:22:32 <fifieldt> Fdot, one other thing to consider
08:22:40 <fifieldt> is taking a stance like the documentation team did
08:22:48 <fifieldt> that they wouldn't touch non-integrated projects
08:23:29 * AJaeger has setup the translation jobs for the projects in incubation. I can switch those off if desired...
08:23:48 <Fdot> fifieldt: which one for example ?
08:23:52 <fifieldt> sahara, marconi, barbarican etc
08:23:58 <fifieldt> designate, gantt
08:24:05 <Fdot> oh ok of course
08:24:16 <fifieldt> given the limited resources in our team, and the scary number of projects, it might be a reasonable step to remove these first
08:24:30 <fifieldt> it would reduce the number of untranslated projects in view
08:24:39 <Fdot> I am agree with you
08:25:20 <Fdot> And in our translating teams we should communicate more about the priority
08:25:43 <Fdot> and about the project we don't need to touch
08:25:50 <fifieldt> yup, it's nice
08:25:52 <Fdot> like the documentation team
08:26:57 <Fdot> are we still all agree about the priorities during the past meeting :
08:27:16 <Fdot> api-quick-start
08:27:16 <Fdot> api-ref-guides
08:27:16 <Fdot> api-ref
08:27:16 <Fdot> image-guide
08:27:16 <Fdot> Horizon
08:28:37 <fifieldt> Seems like a reasonble start - they are small
08:28:43 <fifieldt> and not changing
08:29:05 <Fdot> and easy for new translators arriving on the project
08:29:44 <adiantum> sounds good
08:29:48 <AJaeger> fifieldt, some of these projects will integrate in Juno, so we should have them.
08:29:50 <Fdot> and the config tables will be removed from common we will be able to add it into the list
08:30:23 * AJaeger does not agree with api-ref and api-ref-guides
08:30:35 <Fdot> AJaeger: why ?
08:30:42 <AJaeger> those are small because they contain lots of WADL that is not translated!
08:30:42 <fifieldt> I just checked, and the config tables are 27812 words
08:30:58 <fifieldt> this is true
08:31:24 <Fdot> 25% of the project ;)
08:31:43 <fifieldt> they're so small though AJaeger
08:31:51 <fifieldt> api-ref-guides is 211 words
08:32:08 <fifieldt> api-ref is a bit bigger though
08:32:15 <fifieldt> 4151 words
08:32:41 <AJaeger> let me check how large the generated manuals are...
08:32:44 <fifieldt> AJaeger is right that they shouldn't be a "priority" in terms of usefulness, but they can serve a purpose of giving a sense of completeness  for a team :)
08:32:57 <fifieldt> AJaeger, 20k words for install guide for example
08:33:09 <fifieldt> 60k words for ops guide
08:34:37 <AJaeger> api-ref produces html pages and includes the WADLS
08:36:12 <AJaeger> complete api-ref-guides is 1402 pages - the 211 words is just misleading
08:36:34 <AJaeger> api-ref-guides includes *lots* of other files, the 211 words are just the glue that ties it together.
08:36:40 <AJaeger> Same with api-ref-guides
08:36:52 <AJaeger> 1402 PDF pages
08:37:04 <Fdot> AJaeger: It could be very interesting to be able to translate this content
08:37:22 <Fdot> because it has been done for end users / developers
08:37:38 <AJaeger> Fdot, I don't think it's worth to translate the API - this is reference documentation.
08:37:55 <AJaeger> Fdot, first you need to enhance the tools so that WADLs can be translated as well.
08:38:05 <AJaeger> This is a not trivial
08:38:14 <Fdot> AJaeger: I know
08:38:35 <Fdot> is the move from transifex to an another tool is going to improve this ?
08:38:40 <AJaeger> Sory, I have to leave again and if there are further questions, I can answer on the i18n mailing list
08:38:55 <AJaeger> Fdot, not at all: We extract the po files with our own tools
08:39:07 <Fdot> AJaeger: no pb thanls a lot for your time
08:39:08 <AJaeger> bye
08:39:10 <Fdot> AJaeger: ok :/
08:40:04 <fifieldt> thanks!
08:40:15 <Fdot> Is there anything somebody want to add to this topic ?
08:40:36 <fifieldt> I think we've made good progress
08:40:46 <Fdot> fifieldt: i think too :)
08:41:09 <Fdot> #topic Free discussion
08:41:26 <Fdot> I have a question for fifieldt
08:41:43 <Fdot> do you know when is the string freeze for the documentation ?
08:41:43 <fifieldt> ok?
08:42:00 <fifieldt> erm, you mean when documentation "stops"?
08:42:04 <Fdot> yes
08:42:07 <fifieldt> it doesn't
08:42:10 <Fdot> for juno of course :)
08:42:12 <fifieldt> there is no string freeze for documentation
08:42:41 <Fdot> and for the others project ?
08:42:58 <fifieldt> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule
08:43:01 <fifieldt> Sep 4
08:43:23 <fifieldt> aka Juno-3
08:43:42 <Fdot> fifieldt: thanks a lot that's exactly what i was looking for :)
08:44:01 <fifieldt> :)
08:44:22 <ujuc> :)
08:44:30 <Fdot> Any others questions ? :)
08:46:21 <Fdot> ok so let's close the meeting
08:46:36 <Fdot> thanks a lot everybody for this rich discussion :)
08:46:55 <Fdot> have a good day / night !
08:47:08 <fifieldt> thanks Fdot!
08:47:10 <adiantum> thank you =)
08:47:15 <epico> thanks
08:47:16 <ujuc> :Thanks
08:47:18 <ujuc> :)
08:47:34 <Fdot> #endmeeting