13:01:40 <Daisy> #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting
13:01:40 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Mar 17 13:01:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01:42 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:01:44 <Daisy> Sorry for the late
13:01:45 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'
13:02:25 <corin-fr> hi
13:02:33 <adiantum> hi
13:03:10 <Daisy> sorry
13:03:20 <Daisy> Just in openstack-infra, talking about the login issue.
13:03:27 <Daisy> ok. Let's start
13:03:50 <Daisy> We have a big team today.
13:04:10 <Daisy> #topic Mitaka translation update
13:04:31 <Daisy> I know we are all blocked by the login issue.
13:04:37 <Daisy> Hope we can fix it tonight.
13:04:51 <Daisy> ianychoi have submitted a roll back patch.
13:05:02 <Daisy> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/293998
13:05:06 <katomo> thanks, ianychoi
13:05:08 <Daisy> So at least, we can rollback.
13:05:43 <Daisy> because of the time difference, infra guys wake up but zanata guys sleep.
13:05:59 <Daisy> so, the last choice is to rollback.
13:06:05 <ianychoi> katomo, it is my pleasure. (So late for my identification that openstackid production version was changed..)
13:06:35 <ujuc> 👍
13:07:00 <Daisy> Today there are 5 projects have RC1 cut
13:07:01 <doug-fish> ianychoi: congrats on becoming the i18n team infra expert!
13:07:17 <Daisy> and 3 of them have discussed with me or within ML about the release plan.
13:07:28 <adiantum> ianychoi: kudos =)
13:09:09 <Daisy> All of the 3 projects plan to make RC2 cut next week. I'm trying to negotiate. I'm trying to have them cut RC2 in March 28.
13:09:48 <ianychoi> doug-fish and adiantum  Thanks :)
13:10:18 <Daisy> All the projects are server projects. I think UI projects like Horizon may be a little late. That's fine.
13:11:03 <katomo> hm
13:11:39 <Daisy> All the projects which have RC1 cut now are server projects.
13:13:21 <Daisy> How is the translation progress then? Do you have problem to finish them by March 28 ? Any questions with the translation plan ?
13:13:47 <Daisy> btw, the translation website is still under going. It's not ready now.
13:13:54 <katomo> good progress in Japanese.
13:14:02 <Daisy> thanks, katomo .
13:14:15 <Daisy> any problems working with IBM translators ?
13:14:29 <amotoki> do you all really need alternative translation check site?
13:14:30 <adiantum> good progress on high priority projects in russian
13:14:52 <Daisy> thank you, adiantum
13:15:04 <Daisy> amotoki: you mean, translation check website ?
13:15:21 <amotoki> yes. I am sharing it with japanese team
13:15:24 <katomo> Daisy: works well. we talk at our Gitter chat room.
13:15:43 <corin-fr> Good progress for French too, thanks to IBM translators,
13:15:45 <amotoki> it is sometimes down but works most time
13:15:48 <Daisy> amotoki: you mean, you can provide an alternative translation check site ?
13:16:05 <Daisy> thank yo, corin-fr
13:16:12 <Daisy> s/yo/you
13:16:14 <amotoki> Daisy: yes
13:16:29 <Daisy> wow, if you can, that's great!
13:16:34 <ujuc> +1 <~~
13:16:36 <amotoki> Daisy: one limitation is it is not periodically update
13:16:40 <amotoki> *updated
13:16:49 <katomo> amotoki: good suggestion, thanks
13:16:51 <Daisy> it's acceptable, I think.
13:16:51 <corin-fr> At first, we had misunderstanding because IBM translators wanted to "book" some projects for themselve only, but that was discussed and seems ok now..
13:17:12 <katomo> me, too
13:17:33 <Daisy> corin-fr: thanks for the communication. I understood. There is few experience for IBM translators to work in community. We need to coach them.
13:18:02 <amotoki> for japanese case, we are in a phase to push translations.
13:18:03 <katomo> corin-fr: same situation in Japanese team :) But we talked.
13:18:22 <amotoki> in the next step, we need to explore how we can improve translation quality through reivews.
13:18:39 <Daisy> I think after the first week IBM translators understood the situation. I think they will like the community working styles. More volunteers, less management.
13:19:05 <amotoki> we don't have enough resources with project knowledge....
13:21:03 <Daisy> amotoki: any ideas with Horizon release plan ?
13:21:35 <amotoki> Daisy: i haven't checked it yet, but perhaps we will have RC1 this week or early next week
13:21:48 <amotoki> doug-fish: do you have any information?
13:21:55 <Daisy> amotoki: ok.
13:22:05 <doug-fish> amotoki: your understanding is the same as mine - there are a few key bugs left to fix
13:22:48 <Daisy> amotoki: I think the translation of UI projects can be reviewed from the translation check website. I have no ideas how to test server side messages. Maybe doug-fish have some experiences.
13:22:58 <amotoki> Daisy: doug-fish: anyway, we will coordinate RC2 date with david-lyle. perhaps the week of Mar 28.
13:23:06 <doug-fish> Daisy: in fact, we
13:23:15 <doug-fish> ve never tested server side messages - just review
13:23:31 <Daisy> ok, doug-fish
13:23:50 <Daisy> I know IBM have translation test. Are there translation tests for server side messages ?
13:24:00 <amotoki> IMO, for server side project, checking their context in the soruce code is most efficient way to review
13:24:08 <doug-fish> Daisy: the translation test focused on the UI
13:24:20 <Daisy> ok, got it, doug-fish. Thank you.
13:24:21 <doug-fish> I don't know of any tests that were performed for server side messages
13:24:44 <doug-fish> I wrote the test plan, so I'm pretty certain that's the case :-)
13:25:15 <Daisy> As I know, Zanata doesn't show the locations. Am I right ?
13:25:19 <katomo> amotoki: I think so, too
13:25:22 <Daisy> I mean, the location of the English strings.
13:25:56 <katomo> #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/i18n/check_translation.html
13:25:59 <amotoki> Daisy: yes at now
13:26:02 <adiantum> Daisy: you mean code file and line?
13:26:05 <katomo> amotoki wrote good doc.
13:26:05 <amotoki> i wrote http://docs.openstack.org/developer/i18n/translation_tips.html
13:27:02 <Daisy> maybe we can design a program to feedback translations back into source file, wild imagine.
13:27:27 <doug-fish> Daisy: what kind of feedback would you provide?
13:28:09 <Daisy> doug-fish: I mean, put the translated string back into source file. So reviewers can review how translations fit in the source code.
13:28:29 <doug-fish> oh I see
13:29:04 <Daisy> doug-fish: just amotoki suggested to review server side translations by checking their context in the source code.
13:30:23 <Daisy> Let me change the topic to open discussion
13:30:25 <amotoki> the reason I suggested so is because most strings in server side projects are exception messages or config strings.
13:31:05 <Daisy> amotoki: does it mean, only developers who understand the source code can do the review ?
13:31:18 <doug-fish> inside IBM our reviews focused on reviewing those strings for typos and grammar errors. I'm not sure we'd have identified improper context correctly
13:31:53 <amotoki> Daisy: i don't think so, but for better quality it is innevitable.
13:32:41 <katomo> doug-fish: got it.
13:32:47 <amotoki> from my experience when I reviewed IBM contribution in LIberty, grammer and types check was not sufficient.
13:32:55 <Daisy> amotoki: I think if a pure reviewer , who knows language but don't know the codes, cannot do the context based review.
13:33:02 <ianychoi> Hmm.. but maybe IBM translators have seen lots of server side messages.. This knowledge would be so helpful I think.
13:34:09 <ianychoi> Daisy, can we ask the liasion for server side message contexts?
13:34:10 <doug-fish> amotoki: this translation community is very special - having individuals who are both technical experts and language experts is a rare situation, which should result in a very good outcome
13:34:19 <Daisy> ianychoi: IBM translators are pure language translators. I don't think they have more knowledge of OpenStack than you.
13:34:40 <ianychoi> I see :)
13:34:42 <amotoki> doug-fish: Daisy: i know it.
13:34:55 <Daisy> #topic open discussions
13:35:01 <amotoki> doug-fish: Daisy: this is the reason I help a lot around UI translations.
13:35:02 <doug-fish> ianychoi: one of our translators has taken initiative to ask in IRC channels about context for messages ... I'd like to share what she discovered
13:35:07 <doug-fish> is there an appropriate forum for that?
13:35:27 <ianychoi> doug-fish, I see, thanks! :)
13:35:48 <Daisy> doug-fish: you can open an etherpad page, maybe.
13:35:57 <amotoki> collaboration of pure translators and developers is important.
13:36:06 <doug-fish> oh that's a good idea
13:36:07 <Daisy> agree, amotoki
13:36:22 <ianychoi> +1, amotoki
13:36:24 <katomo> yep
13:36:37 <Daisy> the question is how to connect them ?
13:36:41 <adiantum> +1
13:36:51 <Daisy> how to connect developers and translators.
13:36:53 <Daisy> ?
13:37:08 <ujuc> +1
13:37:19 <amotoki> in addition, (pure) translators can have technical knowledges through checking openstack-manuals.
13:37:22 <Daisy> If developers would like to take some translation jobs, like you, things will be very easy.
13:37:23 <katomo> conversation :)
13:37:49 <Daisy> amotoki: I agree.
13:38:37 <amotoki> openstack-manuals have both english and translated version and they are well reviewed compared to other translations I think.
13:38:51 <Daisy> amotoki: as I know, some Chinese translators regards translating openstack-manuals as the first step to because they want to learn openstack.
13:39:02 <doug-fish> I've shared some of the questions and answers here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-translation-segment-descriptions
13:39:05 <Daisy> amotoki: as I know, some Chinese translators regards translating openstack-manuals as the first step to learn openstack.
13:39:07 <doug-fish> I know there are more
13:39:11 <amotoki> Daisy: agree. that's good point
13:40:20 <amotoki> in my experience, half or more of quality comes from good understanding in technical areas.
13:40:39 <katomo> Daisy: yeah, let's translate more docs!
13:41:26 <katomo> amotoki: I agree
13:41:39 <Cristina> Hi!
13:41:45 <ianychoi> Hi, Cristina !
13:41:46 <amotoki> without technical knowledge (regardless of deeper or not) translators cannot choose appropriate words/terms.
13:41:55 <Daisy> doug-fish: wow. I think the translator is very responsible.
13:42:01 <ujuc> hi~
13:42:26 <doug-fish> I've been working with Martine off and on since I started at IBM nearly 20 years ago
13:42:28 <katomo> Hi, Cristina!
13:42:37 <doug-fish> she is very detailed and thorough!
13:42:47 <Daisy> yes, I can see.
13:43:47 <amotoki> btw, i would like to discuss about glossary management.
13:44:08 <Daisy> amotoki: ok. please.
13:44:09 <katomo> 15 mins :)
13:44:10 <amotoki> It is about a general process. I don't want to cover context topic (I raised) now.
13:44:26 <amotoki> how can we update Zanata glossary?
13:44:33 <amotoki> we have glossaries in gerrit.
13:44:49 <amotoki> i want to know how zanata and git repo are synced.
13:44:51 <Daisy> admin can pack the po files into a zip file, and then upload.
13:44:51 <doug-fish> -- where are the glossaries in gerrit?
13:45:21 <amotoki> doug-fish: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/i18n/tree/i18n/locale
13:45:23 <Daisy> there is no command line support in current version. I don't know if they have in the later version.
13:45:28 <katomo> I'd like to use Jenkins jobs to sync with git repo
13:45:29 <doug-fish> thanks!
13:45:46 <katomo> hm, no command line...
13:45:57 <corin-fr> is this documented somewhere ? the process you just described ?
13:46:14 <amotoki> the i18n team suggested to use git/gerrit for glossary management, but there is no description on the process.
13:46:59 <amotoki> for example, how to add a new glossary entry, how to sync entries between the master and language version of glossary, how to update per-language glossary?
13:47:29 <amotoki> even though we need to do something manually, the process should be documented.
13:47:39 <Daisy> http://docs.zanata.org/en/release/user-guide/glossary/upload-glossaries/
13:47:40 <corin-fr> yes, that's what I try to understand, how to add/correct entry and sync it...
13:48:00 <Daisy> we should improve the documents.
13:48:31 <amotoki> Can only Zanata admin update the glossaries?
13:48:49 <amotoki> if so, Zanata admin folks should document it.
13:48:54 <amotoki> Only they can document it.
13:49:12 <katomo> http://docs.zanata.org/en/release/user-guide/glossary/glossary-roles-permissions/
13:49:28 <Daisy> katomo: good link.
13:49:34 <corin-fr> from the link above, do I understand that this is a "all language" import ?
13:49:45 <corin-fr> a local team can't update by itself ?
13:49:58 <Daisy> in the future version, there should be another role: glossary admin who can also have the edit right of glossary.
13:50:09 <katomo> corin-fr: yes, at now
13:51:16 <amotoki> so what can each lang coordinator do about their glossary?
13:51:22 <katomo> On next version, we can each language glossary
13:51:30 <katomo> *can have
13:52:19 <amotoki> I understand the CURRENT Zanata limitation, but the i18n team should provide a way that each language team can control it.
13:52:37 <amotoki> (even though it is a manual process)
13:52:59 <corin-fr> yes please
13:53:12 <Daisy> I think we need a dedicated meeting for glossary discussion. How about we start from the process design and then we review them together ?
13:53:20 <adiantum> may be using git and git review for glossary management?
13:53:31 <adiantum> Daisy: +1
13:53:44 <katomo> +1
13:53:49 <Daisy> adiantum: that's the initial thoughts. That's why we use git to store glossary.
13:54:05 <corin-fr> +1
13:54:10 <ianychoi> +1
13:54:10 <Daisy> so who would like to design the process ?
13:54:39 <Daisy> open an Etherpad page and document the process in mind. And then, we plan a dedicated meeting to discuss on that.
13:54:52 <amotoki> in gerrit review, what we can do is just to trust each language coordinator and avoid random update of glossary.
13:54:55 <katomo> If we can wait until next week, I can.
13:55:14 <Daisy> Thank you, katomo
13:55:19 <Daisy> It's not an urgent work.
13:55:27 <Daisy> We are still in Mitaka translation now.
13:55:40 <amotoki> Daisy: katomo: could you two write down what we can do now?
13:55:54 <Daisy> ok, amotoki . I can do that.
13:56:02 <katomo> Daisy: okay, thanks. I'll write draft on Etherpad.
13:56:18 <amotoki> Daisy: thanks. I think it is important to clarify what we can do now.
13:56:22 <Daisy> Thank you, katomo . Share the link with me. So I can document what we can do.
13:56:32 <ianychoi> Thanks for katomo +1
13:56:54 <corin-fr> yes, thanks katomo
13:57:00 <adiantum> katomo: thank you =)
13:57:21 <amotoki> katomo: thanks
13:57:28 <Daisy> ok. the time is up for today's meeting.
13:58:00 <katomo> okay, thanks, all. see you soon.
13:58:09 <ianychoi> Thank you all! :)
13:58:16 <amotoki> thanks
13:58:26 <Daisy> Thank you. It's so nice to talk with you. Hope the login issue can be fixed tonight. :)
13:58:28 <Daisy> See you soon.
13:58:37 <adiantum> thank you all!
13:58:37 <corin-fr> thanks, bye!
13:58:43 <Daisy> #endmeeting