20:00:10 <ildikov> #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute
20:00:11 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Apr 10 20:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:13 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:16 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute'
20:00:20 <mlavalle> o/
20:00:23 <mrmartin> o/
20:00:28 <jungleboyj> o/
20:00:41 <diablo_rojo> Hello :)
20:00:44 <ildikov> ping bauzas, jaypipes
20:00:58 <skelso> o/
20:01:16 <blancos> o/
20:01:26 <kmARC> o/
20:01:32 <ildikov> hi all :)
20:02:14 <ildikov> thanks to diablo_rojo we have a pretty good agenda for today
20:02:31 <ildikov> so let's dive into it! :)
20:02:34 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, ha ha thanks :)
20:02:39 <ildikov> #topic Announcements
20:02:40 <diablo_rojo> I do love organization..
20:02:46 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: :)
20:03:05 <ildikov> so it's only 4 weeks until the next training!!!
20:03:41 <ildikov> which means that we would like to further encourage all of you to look into the material and help us update and improve it
20:04:21 <ildikov> #info We have 39 registered students so far
20:04:30 <jungleboyj> Cool.
20:04:52 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  So I spent time going through the slides today and had ideas.  Do you want me to just start pushing up reivews?
20:04:56 <ildikov> we will look into their areas of interest and will reach out to people in the project teams if we don't have the coverage yet
20:05:04 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, yes please :)
20:05:16 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Ok.  Will do.
20:05:18 <ildikov> jungleboyj: yep, that would be great :)
20:05:18 <mlavalle> ildikov: do we know already what projects are they interested on? I'm trying to get a feel as to how many of them I can expect in the Neutron on-boarding room
20:05:30 <spotz> Hey all
20:05:41 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, once we get access to the rsvp data we will know what projects to get reps from
20:06:14 <ildikov> mlavalle: we have only the numbers for today and as diablo_rojo said we will pull the data too and let you know
20:06:19 <jungleboyj> I did just push up changes to official-projects slides.  Let me know what you all think. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455436/1/doc/upstream-training/source/slides/howitsmade-official-projects.rst
20:06:39 <ildikov> mlavalle: we asked for their interest, so we should know shortly
20:06:57 <ildikov> jungleboyj: cool, tnx
20:07:09 <mlavalle> diablo_rojo:, ildikov: ok, I've been working on the presentation / practices for the Neutron on-boarding room. I hope it is not wasted effort
20:07:37 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, shouldn't be :)
20:07:58 <ildikov> mlavalle: the on boarding room is open for anyone to participate, so the training attendees just a subset
20:08:31 <mlavalle> ildikov: ahh, that's good
20:08:35 <ildikov> mlavalle: and having that information collected and organized into a presentation is never a wasted effort! :)
20:08:45 <diablo_rojo> We should make sure to mention the onboarding rooms towards the end of the training as next steps for students
20:08:56 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:08:59 <spotz> +1
20:09:28 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: do we have anything else to announce today?
20:09:42 <mlavalle> ildikov, diablo_rojo: also, even though I cannot not be there for the whole training, I will arrive at Boston at noon, Sunday. So I'll do my best to join you guys in the afternoon
20:09:46 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, nope, that's it I think
20:09:50 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo: ++
20:10:10 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, We will take whatever help we can get :)
20:10:24 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, did you note that in the wiki?
20:10:39 <mlavalle> diablo_rojo: about to do it right now :-)
20:10:47 <mlavalle> diablo_rojo: you read my mind
20:10:49 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, much appreciated
20:10:55 <ildikov> mlavalle: thanks for letting us know and thanks for joining even for that short time
20:11:39 <ildikov> ok, let's move on
20:11:47 <ildikov> #topic Open Reviews
20:12:10 <ildikov> business as usual you can find the open reviews here:
20:12:16 <ildikov> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/training-guides
20:12:29 <diablo_rojo> We have two right now. Mine and Jay's.
20:12:48 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:13:02 <ildikov> is there anything we should discuss about those two here?
20:13:16 <diablo_rojo> Please review? :)
20:13:22 <diablo_rojo> That's all.
20:13:32 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1 :)
20:13:42 <ildikov> #topic Topics
20:13:45 <jungleboyj> I hope my changes are ok.  Just shortened it up and have exercises to find some more info.
20:13:57 <ildikov> jungleboyj: sounds good!
20:14:24 <ildikov> ok, let's continue to go through what we have in the current material
20:14:48 <ildikov> next one is Registration and Accounts
20:15:24 <jungleboyj> I had a question here.  Is there a separate account that will be needed to storyboard?
20:15:25 <ildikov> #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-reg-and-accounts.html#1
20:15:55 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, looks good so far. Got some small nits, but it looks like a big improvement to me.
20:16:01 <jungleboyj> Or is that not something we want to introduce yet?
20:16:06 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Thank you.  :-)
20:16:28 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, we will need to talk about storyboard- its on my todo list, but there arent any new accounts you need cause it uses openstackid
20:17:20 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Ok cool.  Yeah, I don't know that we need to make a long talk on storyboard yet but good to mention it is coming.
20:17:29 <ildikov> so require Foundation registration now for signing up to the training
20:17:31 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo: Did your presentation get accepted on that?
20:17:34 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, +1
20:17:37 <diablo_rojo> yes it did
20:17:38 <diablo_rojo> :)
20:17:43 <jungleboyj> Good.
20:18:24 <jungleboyj> ildikov: Ok, so that is going to shorted up this slide deck quite a bit.
20:18:31 <skelso> Foundation registration also drives the contributor agreement? I'd like to give folks a chance to review before arriving.
20:18:34 <jungleboyj> *shorten
20:18:40 <ildikov> in this sense we can remove the Foundation registration part maybe leave there a note that people need to be Foundation members and not community members there
20:19:06 <skelso> Because sometimes they have to have a lawyer look at it before they can sign.
20:19:10 <ildikov> skelso: that's different, you need to sign that one on Gerrit
20:19:20 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, +1
20:19:35 <ildikov> skelso: but good point to give people a heads up before they come to the training
20:19:42 <skelso> Ah, okay, thanks.
20:19:43 <diablo_rojo> I thought we were going to try to have people look at/sign the CLA before coming to the training?
20:19:45 <spotz> skelso that's why we put up the pre-requisites for the Git and Gerrit session we ran into that in Tokyo where they couldn't sign
20:19:54 <skelso> Cool.
20:20:02 <ildikov> spotz: we ran into that in Barcelona too
20:20:24 <jungleboyj> ildikov: Do we have any way to track/enforce people doing that work beforehand?
20:21:18 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I'm sure we could, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort, or at least we didn't have that many in Barcelona who couldn't sign
20:21:34 <ildikov> jungleboyj: so I would think giving a heads up about it should be fine
20:21:43 <skelso> Seems right to me.
20:21:52 <spotz> We could ask people as they come in and help those who don't have logins as everyone settles in
20:22:37 <jungleboyj> Ok.  Cool.
20:22:46 <ildikov> spotz: we have a short slot dedicated
20:22:48 <diablo_rojo> We can make sure the prereqs get stressed in the  email we will send out shortly before the training to also confirm attendance
20:22:56 <diablo_rojo> spotz, +1
20:23:09 <jungleboyj> I wasn't so much concerned with the signing as with people doing the pre-reqs in general so we don't have a few people holding up the group.
20:23:20 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  +2
20:23:30 <ildikov> spotz: we only need an exercise to the end that ensures they really did the steps as it always turns out at the part when they try to upload a patch that some of them still failed with some steps...
20:23:46 <spotz> ildikov: True
20:24:13 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, right, we can check some of the things, like if they have signed the CLA, but knowing if they have the vm image ready...that we can't do.
20:24:28 <mlavalle> diablo_rojo, ildikov: since in the on-boarding room we may get people who didn't attend the training, could it be mentioned in the sesssion description to install the VM to be used in the training. I am assuming attendees will have the VM
20:24:59 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: we started with that in Barcelona and it went pretty well
20:25:03 * mlavalle is not sure he was clear enough
20:25:10 <diablo_rojo> We can have the prereqes posted on the board while people are trickling in and people wandering around seeing if people have them done/need help.
20:25:27 <jungleboyj> Yeah, that is good.
20:25:28 <skelso> diablo_rojo +1
20:25:31 <ildikov> kmARC got them through that part pretty quickly as most of them was prepared already
20:25:35 <spotz> diablo_rojo: +1
20:25:35 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, +1 We definitely need to do that again- I will make note of that.
20:26:21 <ildikov> we should have the short intro about the training and objectives and have them warmed up a little bit and then get the VM image running and jump on IRC
20:26:29 <kmARC> mlavalle: any additional requirements what to install in the vm?
20:27:08 <mlavalle> kmARC: I just want the people who will attend the Neutron on-boarding room to have the VM isntalled. That's all
20:27:29 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, yep, the intro slides reflect that as of my patch- I can add the part about booting things up.
20:27:51 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: sounds good, tnx
20:27:53 <mlavalle> kmARC: so I would like that to be mentioned in the on-boarding room description
20:28:32 <kmARC> sure that's easy :-)
20:28:35 <diablo_rojo> mlavalle, no problem
20:29:06 <diablo_rojo> So, a lot we can cut out of the registration/accounts slide deck- who wants it?
20:29:38 <spotz> diablo_rojo: May have questions for clarity but I can
20:29:56 <diablo_rojo> spotz, no problem :) Throw a patch up and we will all take a look.
20:30:07 * mlavalle spent some time on Friday looking at kmARC github repo for the VM and thinks he kmARC has done a great job
20:30:40 <ildikov> mlavalle: +1
20:30:42 * kmARC blushes
20:31:45 <ildikov> is there anything else for the accounts section?
20:31:53 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, don't think so
20:32:14 <ildikov> ok, let's move on to Tracking then
20:32:29 <ildikov> #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-launchpad.html#1
20:32:49 <diablo_rojo> Looking at the tracking, I think there is a lot to be condensed and we need to add SB stuff. I can take this one.,
20:33:08 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: cool
20:33:21 <diablo_rojo> I will try to add an exercise for SB too.
20:33:40 <skelso> I wish we had a bug lifecycle picture, kind of like this one https://bugzilla.readthedocs.io/en/5.0/using/editing.html#life-cycle-of-a-bug
20:33:45 <ildikov> I think we can throw a bunch of stuff out and get them start with an exercise of submitting a bug and analyze what they can set and what they think all those things mean, etc.
20:33:52 <diablo_rojo> What repo did we have them make bugs against?
20:33:55 <diablo_rojo> in BCN?
20:34:02 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: sandbox
20:34:22 <diablo_rojo> Right right, okay cool. I will add that info to the exercise that is there
20:34:22 <ildikov> skelso: yeah, that one looks good
20:34:59 <diablo_rojo> skelso, I like that too. I will see if I can find a good place to include it.
20:35:03 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: I would move the exercise to the beginning and use the slides to ensure we clarify the info they really need
20:35:15 <jungleboyj> ildikov: ++
20:35:17 <skelso> diablo_rojo: Cool
20:35:25 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, Yeah I was gonna shuffle stuff a bunch
20:35:35 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: coolio, tnx
20:36:20 <ildikov> anything else for tracking?
20:36:33 <diablo_rojo> If anyone has other exercise ideas please speak up :)
20:36:45 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Why do we have a number of the slides repeated in here?
20:37:01 <ildikov> jungleboyj: repeated?
20:37:09 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Like bug status twice .
20:37:23 <jungleboyj> Same for importance.
20:37:52 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, might have been an issue with the sphinx rendering of the rst. I will clean all that up :)
20:38:03 <diablo_rojo> noticed that too though.
20:38:06 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Ok.  Cool.  Thanks.
20:38:15 <diablo_rojo> No problemo :)
20:38:49 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Is there a way to have people do an exercise where they submit a fix against their bug ... for the section on commits and show how the associated is made?
20:38:59 <jungleboyj> *association
20:39:14 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, yeah we should be able to do that
20:39:23 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I'm not sure that works for sandbox, we need to check
20:39:29 <jungleboyj> That would be kind-of cool.
20:39:35 <jungleboyj> Ok, just a thought.  :-)
20:39:41 <spotz> ildikov: I'm pretty sure we do it, I'd have to double check
20:40:00 <diablo_rojo> Agreed. I think the bug numbers/ links should work whether they are in the sandbox enviros or not
20:40:06 <spotz> ildikov: We may be doing it live with a dummy project thought
20:40:19 <diablo_rojo> something to test
20:40:42 <ildikov> I remember there was something not working with this, but I might be wrong
20:41:16 <ildikov> anyway, if anyone can get there to test that would be great
20:41:34 <diablo_rojo> 20 min warning
20:42:05 <ildikov> ok, let's move on to Gerrit
20:42:11 <ildikov> #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-gerrit.html#1
20:42:51 <diablo_rojo> Desperately needs exercises
20:42:58 <ildikov> yep
20:43:12 <jungleboyj> Yeah, the content looks pretty good.
20:43:29 <skelso> Right. In BCN, this deck was where we went from crawl to run.
20:43:31 <ildikov> we could prepare one or two patches that have history, etc. to show them
20:43:40 <jungleboyj> I would like to add a note as to how you actually make comments as, believe it or not, people have trouble figuring that out.
20:43:59 <jungleboyj> ildikov: ++
20:44:10 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, good idea. The newer gerrit ui isnt the most intuitive
20:44:22 <ildikov> jungleboyj: there's a whole reviewing section that covers that right now
20:44:35 <blancos> Could we roll this into bug exercise perhaps? Like, find a commit in the sandbox and leave a comment
20:44:38 <diablo_rojo> Could we combine the two sections?
20:44:54 <diablo_rojo> combine gerrit and reviewing?
20:45:02 <spotz> +1
20:45:23 <ildikov> I think we can do that
20:45:46 <diablo_rojo> Since gerrit is small and goes with reviewing anyway
20:45:59 <jungleboyj> ildikov: diablo_rojo That would make sense.
20:46:10 <ildikov> we should avoid having long lecture parts in it still
20:46:32 <ildikov> so we could try to insert some exercises so people remain involved
20:46:38 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, agreed. Should come up with an exercise for the gerrit intro- adding an ssh key and reviewers to your patch or something
20:46:43 <diablo_rojo> and then go into reviewing
20:46:47 <skelso> Slide 3 rocks (I guess I like diagrams) but its density means covering at same speed overwhelms learners. I was thinking to lecture a little more there.
20:47:26 <ildikov> skelso: :)
20:47:36 <ildikov> skelso: diagrams are good, I agree
20:47:40 <diablo_rojo> skelso, if we break it up with more exercises it might make people process the info more so that people dont get overwhealmed by a lot of into being talked at them
20:47:40 <skelso> Maybe follow with exercises interleaved with lectures covering groups or 2-3 blocks.
20:47:53 <skelso> diablo_rojo: +1
20:48:04 <jungleboyj> Yeah, that would be good.
20:48:20 <diablo_rojo> So, the plan is to combine gerrit and reviewing and add at least one more if not two more exercises into that deck
20:48:24 <diablo_rojo> ?
20:48:30 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:48:45 <ildikov> anyone would like to take this one?
20:49:31 <spotz> ildikov: If no one else takes it I can, I've got all of this for the lunch and learn
20:50:01 <spotz> We do it a little different though, we have them make a bug, commit to it, review each other, etc
20:50:19 <jungleboyj> spotz: That actually was kind of what I was getting at earlier.
20:50:37 <spotz> jungleboyj: Wed during lunch:)
20:50:43 <ildikov> spotz: sounds good
20:50:46 <diablo_rojo> spotz, we can do a lot of that. I will have them make a bug and a task in lp and sb so that when we get here we can do some of that.
20:50:54 <jungleboyj> It would be nice if we could combine all of this into introduction, exercise, follow on info, exercise.
20:51:08 <ildikov> spotz: would be great if you can take this, especially as you deal with the topic already :)
20:51:16 <diablo_rojo> Have them make a patch and reference the bug or sb task and push it and add reviewers and then review someone elses
20:51:32 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  ++
20:52:00 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: +1
20:52:03 <spotz> diablo_rojo: exactly
20:52:14 <diablo_rojo> Totally do able.
20:52:28 <spotz> Ok I'll take this and accounts, no more volunteering untiL get these done though:)
20:52:33 <jungleboyj> Much more engaging.
20:52:40 <ildikov> spotz: thanks much!
20:52:49 <diablo_rojo> We just need to get all these patches out ASAP. I can work on the tracking one and get it out tonight. I'll add you as a reviewer spotz ;)
20:52:57 <ildikov> ok, let's try to cover commit messages too today
20:53:01 <ildikov> #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-commit-message.html#1
20:53:03 <diablo_rojo> 7 min left
20:53:19 <spotz> diablo_rojo: sounds good:)
20:53:20 <diablo_rojo> I have some ideas for exercises for this I can add
20:53:28 <diablo_rojo> this as in the commit messages section
20:53:31 <ildikov> sounds good
20:53:36 <diablo_rojo> not sure if there is much we can cut out?
20:53:39 <diablo_rojo> opinions there?
20:53:48 <diablo_rojo> I can try to make something a little more succint
20:53:53 <diablo_rojo> *succinct
20:53:55 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: we can balance with how much we are talking about it
20:53:59 <jungleboyj> I don't like carrot and stick stuff in here.
20:54:17 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj,  like the bad and good examples?
20:54:37 <skelso> Does carrot and stick translate WW?
20:54:45 <jungleboyj> skelso: Probably not.
20:54:47 <spotz> oh and formating:)
20:54:58 <jungleboyj> The first page needs to better explain the importance here.
20:54:59 <diablo_rojo> The formatting is a bit painful too.
20:55:23 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  Will it conflict with you if I try to push up a patch that words that better?
20:56:07 <diablo_rojo> Yeah I think it would be better to do the importance and then go into the parts of a commit and have an exercise for writing each part.
20:56:15 <jungleboyj> I also don't like the fact that the examples on page 5 are just summary lines.  Not really good examples.
20:56:57 <jungleboyj> Ah, yes, get the parts explained first.  Then an example(s) and exercise.
20:56:59 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, no you can do that if you want. Or I can get it started and you can push up a patchset in the same patch tweaking things after me if I havent done it well enough?
20:57:23 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  :-p
20:57:25 <diablo_rojo> I want to rework this whole section now that I think about it lol
20:57:44 <jungleboyj> diablo_rojo:  ++ I don't like it.
20:58:00 <skelso> What about slides 3-4? Are they really about how to structure or partition patches, or just about writing about them?
20:58:04 <ildikov> diablo_rojo: jungleboyj: you can sync up on the channel and might get others looking into this too
20:58:28 <diablo_rojo> jungleboyj, not poking at you I promise :)
20:58:37 <jungleboyj> ildikov: Ok.  Sounds good.
20:58:47 <diablo_rojo> If you want to go first I can make mine dependent on yours.
20:58:52 <jungleboyj> Uh huh.  ;-)
20:59:07 <jungleboyj> No go ahead and then I can make comments/changes.
20:59:17 <diablo_rojo> With only four weeks there's no time to poke :)
20:59:25 <ildikov> we're out of time, but I think we made great progress today
20:59:34 <spotz> Thanks all!
20:59:40 <diablo_rojo> ildikov, +1 Way more productive than last week!
20:59:41 <mlavalle> o/
20:59:43 <jungleboyj> Agreed.  Thanks!
20:59:43 <ildikov> thanks for everyone volunteering and looking into the material!
20:59:51 <skelso> Bye!
20:59:58 <kmARC> goodnight :-)
21:00:02 <ildikov> keep in touch on Gerrit and IRC
21:00:04 <mrmartin> goodnight
21:00:08 <ildikov> see you next week here :)
21:00:19 <ildikov> good rest of the day everyone! :)
21:00:24 <ildikov> #endmeeting