20:00:10 #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute 20:00:11 Meeting started Mon Apr 10 20:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:00:13 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 20:00:16 The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute' 20:00:20 o/ 20:00:23 o/ 20:00:28 o/ 20:00:41 Hello :) 20:00:44 ping bauzas, jaypipes 20:00:58 o/ 20:01:16 o/ 20:01:26 o/ 20:01:32 hi all :) 20:02:14 thanks to diablo_rojo we have a pretty good agenda for today 20:02:31 so let's dive into it! :) 20:02:34 ildikov, ha ha thanks :) 20:02:39 #topic Announcements 20:02:40 I do love organization.. 20:02:46 diablo_rojo: :) 20:03:05 so it's only 4 weeks until the next training!!! 20:03:41 which means that we would like to further encourage all of you to look into the material and help us update and improve it 20:04:21 #info We have 39 registered students so far 20:04:30 Cool. 20:04:52 ildikov: So I spent time going through the slides today and had ideas. Do you want me to just start pushing up reivews? 20:04:56 we will look into their areas of interest and will reach out to people in the project teams if we don't have the coverage yet 20:05:04 jungleboyj, yes please :) 20:05:16 diablo_rojo: Ok. Will do. 20:05:18 jungleboyj: yep, that would be great :) 20:05:18 ildikov: do we know already what projects are they interested on? I'm trying to get a feel as to how many of them I can expect in the Neutron on-boarding room 20:05:30 Hey all 20:05:41 mlavalle, once we get access to the rsvp data we will know what projects to get reps from 20:06:14 mlavalle: we have only the numbers for today and as diablo_rojo said we will pull the data too and let you know 20:06:19 I did just push up changes to official-projects slides. Let me know what you all think. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455436/1/doc/upstream-training/source/slides/howitsmade-official-projects.rst 20:06:39 mlavalle: we asked for their interest, so we should know shortly 20:06:57 jungleboyj: cool, tnx 20:07:09 diablo_rojo:, ildikov: ok, I've been working on the presentation / practices for the Neutron on-boarding room. I hope it is not wasted effort 20:07:37 mlavalle, shouldn't be :) 20:07:58 mlavalle: the on boarding room is open for anyone to participate, so the training attendees just a subset 20:08:31 ildikov: ahh, that's good 20:08:35 mlavalle: and having that information collected and organized into a presentation is never a wasted effort! :) 20:08:45 We should make sure to mention the onboarding rooms towards the end of the training as next steps for students 20:08:56 diablo_rojo: +1 20:08:59 +1 20:09:28 diablo_rojo: do we have anything else to announce today? 20:09:42 ildikov, diablo_rojo: also, even though I cannot not be there for the whole training, I will arrive at Boston at noon, Sunday. So I'll do my best to join you guys in the afternoon 20:09:46 ildikov, nope, that's it I think 20:09:50 diablo_rojo: ++ 20:10:10 mlavalle, We will take whatever help we can get :) 20:10:24 mlavalle, did you note that in the wiki? 20:10:39 diablo_rojo: about to do it right now :-) 20:10:47 diablo_rojo: you read my mind 20:10:49 mlavalle, much appreciated 20:10:55 mlavalle: thanks for letting us know and thanks for joining even for that short time 20:11:39 ok, let's move on 20:11:47 #topic Open Reviews 20:12:10 business as usual you can find the open reviews here: 20:12:16 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/training-guides 20:12:29 We have two right now. Mine and Jay's. 20:12:48 :-) 20:13:02 is there anything we should discuss about those two here? 20:13:16 Please review? :) 20:13:22 That's all. 20:13:32 diablo_rojo: +1 :) 20:13:42 #topic Topics 20:13:45 I hope my changes are ok. Just shortened it up and have exercises to find some more info. 20:13:57 jungleboyj: sounds good! 20:14:24 ok, let's continue to go through what we have in the current material 20:14:48 next one is Registration and Accounts 20:15:24 I had a question here. Is there a separate account that will be needed to storyboard? 20:15:25 #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-reg-and-accounts.html#1 20:15:55 jungleboyj, looks good so far. Got some small nits, but it looks like a big improvement to me. 20:16:01 Or is that not something we want to introduce yet? 20:16:06 diablo_rojo: Thank you. :-) 20:16:28 jungleboyj, we will need to talk about storyboard- its on my todo list, but there arent any new accounts you need cause it uses openstackid 20:17:20 diablo_rojo: Ok cool. Yeah, I don't know that we need to make a long talk on storyboard yet but good to mention it is coming. 20:17:29 so require Foundation registration now for signing up to the training 20:17:31 diablo_rojo: Did your presentation get accepted on that? 20:17:34 jungleboyj, +1 20:17:37 yes it did 20:17:38 :) 20:17:43 Good. 20:18:24 ildikov: Ok, so that is going to shorted up this slide deck quite a bit. 20:18:31 Foundation registration also drives the contributor agreement? I'd like to give folks a chance to review before arriving. 20:18:34 *shorten 20:18:40 in this sense we can remove the Foundation registration part maybe leave there a note that people need to be Foundation members and not community members there 20:19:06 Because sometimes they have to have a lawyer look at it before they can sign. 20:19:10 skelso: that's different, you need to sign that one on Gerrit 20:19:20 ildikov, +1 20:19:35 skelso: but good point to give people a heads up before they come to the training 20:19:42 Ah, okay, thanks. 20:19:43 I thought we were going to try to have people look at/sign the CLA before coming to the training? 20:19:45 skelso that's why we put up the pre-requisites for the Git and Gerrit session we ran into that in Tokyo where they couldn't sign 20:19:54 Cool. 20:20:02 spotz: we ran into that in Barcelona too 20:20:24 ildikov: Do we have any way to track/enforce people doing that work beforehand? 20:21:18 jungleboyj: I'm sure we could, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort, or at least we didn't have that many in Barcelona who couldn't sign 20:21:34 jungleboyj: so I would think giving a heads up about it should be fine 20:21:43 Seems right to me. 20:21:52 We could ask people as they come in and help those who don't have logins as everyone settles in 20:22:37 Ok. Cool. 20:22:46 spotz: we have a short slot dedicated 20:22:48 We can make sure the prereqs get stressed in the email we will send out shortly before the training to also confirm attendance 20:22:56 spotz, +1 20:23:09 I wasn't so much concerned with the signing as with people doing the pre-reqs in general so we don't have a few people holding up the group. 20:23:20 diablo_rojo: +2 20:23:30 spotz: we only need an exercise to the end that ensures they really did the steps as it always turns out at the part when they try to upload a patch that some of them still failed with some steps... 20:23:46 ildikov: True 20:24:13 ildikov, right, we can check some of the things, like if they have signed the CLA, but knowing if they have the vm image ready...that we can't do. 20:24:28 diablo_rojo, ildikov: since in the on-boarding room we may get people who didn't attend the training, could it be mentioned in the sesssion description to install the VM to be used in the training. I am assuming attendees will have the VM 20:24:59 diablo_rojo: we started with that in Barcelona and it went pretty well 20:25:03 * mlavalle is not sure he was clear enough 20:25:10 We can have the prereqes posted on the board while people are trickling in and people wandering around seeing if people have them done/need help. 20:25:27 Yeah, that is good. 20:25:28 diablo_rojo +1 20:25:31 kmARC got them through that part pretty quickly as most of them was prepared already 20:25:35 diablo_rojo: +1 20:25:35 ildikov, +1 We definitely need to do that again- I will make note of that. 20:26:21 we should have the short intro about the training and objectives and have them warmed up a little bit and then get the VM image running and jump on IRC 20:26:29 mlavalle: any additional requirements what to install in the vm? 20:27:08 kmARC: I just want the people who will attend the Neutron on-boarding room to have the VM isntalled. That's all 20:27:29 ildikov, yep, the intro slides reflect that as of my patch- I can add the part about booting things up. 20:27:51 diablo_rojo: sounds good, tnx 20:27:53 kmARC: so I would like that to be mentioned in the on-boarding room description 20:28:32 sure that's easy :-) 20:28:35 mlavalle, no problem 20:29:06 So, a lot we can cut out of the registration/accounts slide deck- who wants it? 20:29:38 diablo_rojo: May have questions for clarity but I can 20:29:56 spotz, no problem :) Throw a patch up and we will all take a look. 20:30:07 * mlavalle spent some time on Friday looking at kmARC github repo for the VM and thinks he kmARC has done a great job 20:30:40 mlavalle: +1 20:30:42 * kmARC blushes 20:31:45 is there anything else for the accounts section? 20:31:53 ildikov, don't think so 20:32:14 ok, let's move on to Tracking then 20:32:29 #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-launchpad.html#1 20:32:49 Looking at the tracking, I think there is a lot to be condensed and we need to add SB stuff. I can take this one., 20:33:08 diablo_rojo: cool 20:33:21 I will try to add an exercise for SB too. 20:33:40 I wish we had a bug lifecycle picture, kind of like this one https://bugzilla.readthedocs.io/en/5.0/using/editing.html#life-cycle-of-a-bug 20:33:45 I think we can throw a bunch of stuff out and get them start with an exercise of submitting a bug and analyze what they can set and what they think all those things mean, etc. 20:33:52 What repo did we have them make bugs against? 20:33:55 in BCN? 20:34:02 diablo_rojo: sandbox 20:34:22 Right right, okay cool. I will add that info to the exercise that is there 20:34:22 skelso: yeah, that one looks good 20:34:59 skelso, I like that too. I will see if I can find a good place to include it. 20:35:03 diablo_rojo: I would move the exercise to the beginning and use the slides to ensure we clarify the info they really need 20:35:15 ildikov: ++ 20:35:17 diablo_rojo: Cool 20:35:25 ildikov, Yeah I was gonna shuffle stuff a bunch 20:35:35 diablo_rojo: coolio, tnx 20:36:20 anything else for tracking? 20:36:33 If anyone has other exercise ideas please speak up :) 20:36:45 ildikov: Why do we have a number of the slides repeated in here? 20:37:01 jungleboyj: repeated? 20:37:09 diablo_rojo: Like bug status twice . 20:37:23 Same for importance. 20:37:52 jungleboyj, might have been an issue with the sphinx rendering of the rst. I will clean all that up :) 20:38:03 noticed that too though. 20:38:06 diablo_rojo: Ok. Cool. Thanks. 20:38:15 No problemo :) 20:38:49 diablo_rojo: Is there a way to have people do an exercise where they submit a fix against their bug ... for the section on commits and show how the associated is made? 20:38:59 *association 20:39:14 jungleboyj, yeah we should be able to do that 20:39:23 jungleboyj: I'm not sure that works for sandbox, we need to check 20:39:29 That would be kind-of cool. 20:39:35 Ok, just a thought. :-) 20:39:41 ildikov: I'm pretty sure we do it, I'd have to double check 20:40:00 Agreed. I think the bug numbers/ links should work whether they are in the sandbox enviros or not 20:40:06 ildikov: We may be doing it live with a dummy project thought 20:40:19 something to test 20:40:42 I remember there was something not working with this, but I might be wrong 20:41:16 anyway, if anyone can get there to test that would be great 20:41:34 20 min warning 20:42:05 ok, let's move on to Gerrit 20:42:11 #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-gerrit.html#1 20:42:51 Desperately needs exercises 20:42:58 yep 20:43:12 Yeah, the content looks pretty good. 20:43:29 Right. In BCN, this deck was where we went from crawl to run. 20:43:31 we could prepare one or two patches that have history, etc. to show them 20:43:40 I would like to add a note as to how you actually make comments as, believe it or not, people have trouble figuring that out. 20:43:59 ildikov: ++ 20:44:10 jungleboyj, good idea. The newer gerrit ui isnt the most intuitive 20:44:22 jungleboyj: there's a whole reviewing section that covers that right now 20:44:35 Could we roll this into bug exercise perhaps? Like, find a commit in the sandbox and leave a comment 20:44:38 Could we combine the two sections? 20:44:54 combine gerrit and reviewing? 20:45:02 +1 20:45:23 I think we can do that 20:45:46 Since gerrit is small and goes with reviewing anyway 20:45:59 ildikov: diablo_rojo That would make sense. 20:46:10 we should avoid having long lecture parts in it still 20:46:32 so we could try to insert some exercises so people remain involved 20:46:38 ildikov, agreed. Should come up with an exercise for the gerrit intro- adding an ssh key and reviewers to your patch or something 20:46:43 and then go into reviewing 20:46:47 Slide 3 rocks (I guess I like diagrams) but its density means covering at same speed overwhelms learners. I was thinking to lecture a little more there. 20:47:26 skelso: :) 20:47:36 skelso: diagrams are good, I agree 20:47:40 skelso, if we break it up with more exercises it might make people process the info more so that people dont get overwhealmed by a lot of into being talked at them 20:47:40 Maybe follow with exercises interleaved with lectures covering groups or 2-3 blocks. 20:47:53 diablo_rojo: +1 20:48:04 Yeah, that would be good. 20:48:20 So, the plan is to combine gerrit and reviewing and add at least one more if not two more exercises into that deck 20:48:24 ? 20:48:30 diablo_rojo: +1 20:48:45 anyone would like to take this one? 20:49:31 ildikov: If no one else takes it I can, I've got all of this for the lunch and learn 20:50:01 We do it a little different though, we have them make a bug, commit to it, review each other, etc 20:50:19 spotz: That actually was kind of what I was getting at earlier. 20:50:37 jungleboyj: Wed during lunch:) 20:50:43 spotz: sounds good 20:50:46 spotz, we can do a lot of that. I will have them make a bug and a task in lp and sb so that when we get here we can do some of that. 20:50:54 It would be nice if we could combine all of this into introduction, exercise, follow on info, exercise. 20:51:08 spotz: would be great if you can take this, especially as you deal with the topic already :) 20:51:16 Have them make a patch and reference the bug or sb task and push it and add reviewers and then review someone elses 20:51:32 diablo_rojo: ++ 20:52:00 diablo_rojo: +1 20:52:03 diablo_rojo: exactly 20:52:14 Totally do able. 20:52:28 Ok I'll take this and accounts, no more volunteering untiL get these done though:) 20:52:33 Much more engaging. 20:52:40 spotz: thanks much! 20:52:49 We just need to get all these patches out ASAP. I can work on the tracking one and get it out tonight. I'll add you as a reviewer spotz ;) 20:52:57 ok, let's try to cover commit messages too today 20:53:01 #link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/workflow-commit-message.html#1 20:53:03 7 min left 20:53:19 diablo_rojo: sounds good:) 20:53:20 I have some ideas for exercises for this I can add 20:53:28 this as in the commit messages section 20:53:31 sounds good 20:53:36 not sure if there is much we can cut out? 20:53:39 opinions there? 20:53:48 I can try to make something a little more succint 20:53:53 *succinct 20:53:55 diablo_rojo: we can balance with how much we are talking about it 20:53:59 I don't like carrot and stick stuff in here. 20:54:17 jungleboyj, like the bad and good examples? 20:54:37 Does carrot and stick translate WW? 20:54:45 skelso: Probably not. 20:54:47 oh and formating:) 20:54:58 The first page needs to better explain the importance here. 20:54:59 The formatting is a bit painful too. 20:55:23 diablo_rojo: Will it conflict with you if I try to push up a patch that words that better? 20:56:07 Yeah I think it would be better to do the importance and then go into the parts of a commit and have an exercise for writing each part. 20:56:15 I also don't like the fact that the examples on page 5 are just summary lines. Not really good examples. 20:56:57 Ah, yes, get the parts explained first. Then an example(s) and exercise. 20:56:59 jungleboyj, no you can do that if you want. Or I can get it started and you can push up a patchset in the same patch tweaking things after me if I havent done it well enough? 20:57:23 diablo_rojo: :-p 20:57:25 I want to rework this whole section now that I think about it lol 20:57:44 diablo_rojo: ++ I don't like it. 20:58:00 What about slides 3-4? Are they really about how to structure or partition patches, or just about writing about them? 20:58:04 diablo_rojo: jungleboyj: you can sync up on the channel and might get others looking into this too 20:58:28 jungleboyj, not poking at you I promise :) 20:58:37 ildikov: Ok. Sounds good. 20:58:47 If you want to go first I can make mine dependent on yours. 20:58:52 Uh huh. ;-) 20:59:07 No go ahead and then I can make comments/changes. 20:59:17 With only four weeks there's no time to poke :) 20:59:25 we're out of time, but I think we made great progress today 20:59:34 Thanks all! 20:59:40 ildikov, +1 Way more productive than last week! 20:59:41 o/ 20:59:43 Agreed. Thanks! 20:59:43 thanks for everyone volunteering and looking into the material! 20:59:51 Bye! 20:59:58 goodnight :-) 21:00:02 keep in touch on Gerrit and IRC 21:00:04 goodnight 21:00:08 see you next week here :) 21:00:19 good rest of the day everyone! :) 21:00:24 #endmeeting