20:00:30 <ildikov> #startmeeting openstack_upstream_institute
20:00:31 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Nov 20 20:00:30 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ildikov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:32 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00:35 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_upstream_institute'
20:00:46 <jungleboyj> @!
20:00:46 <_pewp_> jungleboyj ( ･ω･)ﾉ
20:00:53 <ildikov> jungleboyj: hi :)
20:01:05 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Hey, how are you?
20:01:32 <spotz> \o/
20:01:42 * jungleboyj waves at spotz
20:01:47 <ildikov> spotz: hey :)
20:01:59 <ildikov> jungleboyj: all good
20:02:07 <spotz> I suspect a lot of folks are out
20:02:10 <jungleboyj> Good.
20:02:20 <ildikov> jungleboyj: spotz: have you recovered from jet lag by now?
20:02:39 <ildikov> spotz: yeah, I know, not a lucky timing :/
20:02:51 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Kind-of.  I have had a cold since I have gotten home so I can't tell how much of it is jetlag and how much of it is being sick.
20:02:53 <spotz> ildikov: Yeah I slept for 12 hours then was all good. You?
20:03:00 <ildikov> as the week after the Summit is usually quiet and now we have Thanksgiving week right after :S
20:03:24 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I know how that feels, sorry :(
20:03:32 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I hope you'll get better soon
20:03:43 <jungleboyj> Oh yeah, you are the one who gave it to me!  ;-)
20:04:07 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I don't think I was contagious :)
20:04:19 <ildikov> spotz: I'm still in Australia :)
20:04:37 <ildikov> spotz: so I suffer from very early morning or late night meetings...
20:04:58 <spotz> So jealous:( Mark tweeted me a picture from the Hobbit set in NZ
20:04:59 <jungleboyj> :-)  A bunch of us came home sick.  Oh well, better to be sick afterwards than during.
20:05:30 <ildikov> spotz: haha, I was at the place, but finally didn't take the tour, didn't have two hours for it
20:05:42 <ildikov> spotz: but just the area itself is magical!
20:05:55 <spotz> I want to go so badly
20:06:15 <ildikov> New Zealand is BEAUTIFUL!!!
20:06:45 * jungleboyj will have to leave time to go next time.
20:07:41 <spotz> Not helping ildikov!:)
20:07:56 <ildikov> Sorry, lol :)
20:08:25 <ildikov> Ok, I don't think we will get much more people here.
20:09:11 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:10:24 <ildikov> so what I would like to start thinking about and get action on this year is:
20:10:31 <ildikov> 1. moving content to the contributor portal
20:11:08 <ildikov> 2. restructuring our exercises to be more hands-on, adventurous and exciting for people who attend the training
20:11:30 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:11:40 <ildikov> I think we captured these on the retro etherpad as well
20:11:43 <ildikov> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-OUI-Retrospective
20:12:03 <ildikov> so everyone can get inspiration from there or just come up with ideas in general
20:12:07 <spotz> Yeah I think most of it plus some other things are there
20:12:29 <ildikov> I can create an etherpad for brainstorming on the exercises
20:12:43 <ildikov> and how to ensure that we get time for the deep dives
20:12:46 <smcginnis> ildikov: Thanks for the ping.
20:12:58 <ildikov> smcginnis: tnx for joining :)
20:13:23 <spotz> Oh sure you show up for her.... :)
20:13:44 <jungleboyj> Yeah, setting up more engaging and hands on exercises is going to be an interesting challenge.
20:13:45 <smcginnis> spotz: Sorry Amy!!! :]
20:14:00 <spotz> smcginnis: I have the power!:)
20:14:04 <ildikov> smcginnis: it's only a few of us and I've just mentioned that having progress on moving things to the Contributor Portal and restructuring our exercises a bit would be this year's focus
20:14:06 <jungleboyj> spotz:  You don't know the power she holds over Cinder.  ;-)
20:14:35 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I have a question on that front after this meeting ;)
20:14:58 <jungleboyj> We are going to need to figure out how we make the hands on exercises as we go through lead up to good deep dive exercises.
20:15:05 * jungleboyj is scared now
20:15:19 <smcginnis> So I ended up missing a lot of the feedback. What was the feel with our exercises? Any good recommendations on how to improve them?
20:15:22 <ildikov> jungleboyj: it's not that complicated hopefully :)
20:15:35 <spotz> I assume we're just going to do the developer 'adventure'?
20:15:50 <ildikov> smcginnis: so it's always complicated as people miss coding parts, but only a handful of them is experienced enough
20:15:58 <smcginnis> True
20:16:09 <ildikov> spotz: well, the common parts and then the developer adventure
20:16:21 <ildikov> spotz: and we can do docs too
20:16:34 <ildikov> smcginnis: have you attended the training in Barcelona?
20:16:37 <smcginnis> We could have some lego kits, and for each exercise they complete they get one piece of the kit. Challenge them to get the full kit. ;)
20:16:52 <smcginnis> ildikov: No, I had a conflicting training class during that one.
20:17:03 <spotz> Oh just FYI if you find a bug in the more main part leading into the portal only Jimmy can fix it
20:17:13 <ildikov> smcginnis: lol, there are those small lego animals, that could work as a get the full kit challenge in fact :)
20:17:34 <smcginnis> ildikov: Hey, if that motivates some of them. ;)
20:18:05 <ildikov> spotz: yeah, I had an idea, so it's even more important to catch all the issues we can and give Jimmy a nice list
20:18:08 <ildikov> smcginnis: :)
20:18:17 <ildikov> smcginnis: so in Barcelona we had deep dives at the end
20:18:34 <smcginnis> ildikov: I like that. How'd it go there?
20:18:40 <ildikov> smcginnis: people sat together with mentors like jungleboyj, vkmc, gmann_afk, etc
20:19:13 <ildikov> the idea was to go through on one project on how to run tests, how to check on the services in devstack and have exercises for them
20:19:26 <ildikov> like breaking something in the code and let them find the issue
20:19:54 <ildikov> have them adding debug LOG messages and find those in the logs while running the services in Devstack
20:20:00 <ildikov> so these type of activities
20:20:24 <jungleboyj> I had something in Boston for people to checkout that would break their devstack and then they could work through it but we never got that far.  :-(
20:20:56 <ildikov> if we could have time for these at the end who feel dedicated enough and has either the motivation or the required skill/knowledge or even preferably both, those people could stick around and get the deeper knowledge
20:21:24 <ildikov> we could also do similar things on the tooling, like especially Git for people who don't feel competent with that
20:21:44 <ildikov> jungleboyj: I know, Boston was exceptionally challenging :(
20:22:24 * jungleboyj doesn't feel that going from Code & Documentation -> Storage -> Cinder -> Our Top Level documentation page is helpful.
20:22:44 <spotz> Not sure if it's a good idea or not, but in the sign up for the training could we give an idea of what's being discussed each day and what parts might be optional?
20:23:23 <ildikov> spotz: the idea was always that, we just don't really advertise it right now
20:23:42 <ildikov> I don't think we need to stress that at the sign up, but more during the intro part
20:23:51 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  ++
20:24:27 <ildikov> so let people know who are not that interested in the code and doc right now, but are there for learning in general and maybe learning more about the WG's and SIG's that they can leave after this and that module
20:24:44 <ildikov> and the rest should be excited about this and that after the more general parts
20:24:57 <ildikov> we can still teach the general contribution flow to everyone
20:25:17 <ildikov> so they get the base idea if they or their colleagues would like to get there later
20:25:17 <jungleboyj> Yeah, I think the general contribution flow is valid for everyone.
20:25:35 <smcginnis> ++
20:25:54 <spotz> the reason I say sign up is so that folks can plan travel accordingly
20:26:01 <ildikov> smcginnis: does all the above make sense to you?
20:26:06 <jungleboyj> More actively communicate the target audience of each section.
20:26:33 <smcginnis> ildikov: Yeah, I like that. That's kind of what I was getting after when we had our call.
20:26:50 <ildikov> spotz: as we start with the general parts, signing up for the whole shouldn't be an issue and gives them the travel prep heads-up
20:27:23 <ildikov> spotz: and I don't think we will get there for the next occasion that people could leave after like 3 hours
20:27:50 <ildikov> or if we completely reverse the order and start with deep dives and finish with the general stuff that can work too
20:28:07 <ildikov> if we decided that we can talk about sign-ups :)
20:28:34 <ildikov> smcginnis: ok, cool
20:30:38 <ildikov> I created an etherpad for brainstorming:
20:30:43 <ildikov> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OUI_exercises_reform
20:31:04 <ildikov> please drop ideas there both for exercises and training structure in general
20:31:54 <jungleboyj> Oh my.
20:31:58 <smcginnis> :D
20:32:37 <jungleboyj> So how did I become an alcoholic ....
20:32:51 <smcginnis> You started working on OpenStack.
20:32:55 <smcginnis> :P
20:33:55 <ildikov> hmm, so what did I do now? :)
20:35:01 <jungleboyj> smcginnis: I am not going to continue down the path this is headed on.
20:37:11 <jungleboyj> Docs area  good idea.
20:37:40 <ildikov> I will send out the etherpad link to the ML as well to give a heads up to people
20:37:41 <jungleboyj> I know Mark was pushing for Keystone but I think Docs makes more sense as it isn't necessarily obvious how to work with them but we all need to be able to.
20:38:27 <ildikov> we can also brainstorm about what format we plan to store these as the tool that generates our slides right now is outdated so we will need to step away from it
20:38:48 <ildikov> yeah, Docs is usually a good start
20:39:21 <ildikov> and we can still form groups and have the experts teach how the specifics work in their project
20:39:22 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  It would be really nice to be able to create prettier slides than we are currently able to create.
20:39:32 <ildikov> including a Docs table
20:40:22 <ildikov> jungleboyj: yeah, or think about another way as generating these slides with Sphinx didn't seem that straightforward to me... :)
20:40:41 <ildikov> ok, I could've spent more time with figuring it out, but still :)
20:41:06 <jungleboyj> ildikov:  Would be nice to have something that didn't require a lot of figuring out.
20:41:34 <ildikov> jungleboyj: +1
20:42:29 <jungleboyj> In a perfect world ...
20:42:39 <ildikov> so that's basically what I had in mind to chat about for today
20:42:51 <spotz> What about google docs? That way anyone should be able to work with them? We could keep a download in git
20:43:12 <jungleboyj> spotz:  I was kind of thinking that but thought such a suggestion might be blasphemous.
20:43:55 <spotz> jungleboyj: Well at least it's better then powerpoint as it's more accessible
20:44:11 <jungleboyj> Agreed.
20:44:36 <ildikov> in principal it would be great to have the source live in Git
20:45:10 <spotz> ildikov: We should be able to download from google and store in git
20:45:11 <ildikov> *principle
20:45:24 <marst> Not sure if this was discussed before, but https://katacoda.com/ is awesome.
20:46:08 <smcginnis> That could come in handy.
20:46:08 <ildikov> spotz: from review perspective the other way around would be desirable to render it into whatever format we prefer as opposed to move the rendered text into Git, when we're happy with it
20:46:55 <jungleboyj> marst:  Interesting.
20:47:10 <spotz> ildikov: Not sure what will work, cause if we review content and graphics and review and then put it into something we'll need to re-review
20:47:19 <ildikov> marst: I don't think it came up before
20:47:52 <ildikov> spotz: I'm not sure I follow you now :)
20:48:25 <ildikov> spotz: I just mean that if we put things in Google doc and then move it to Git that's odd from content review perspective
20:48:25 <spotz> ildikov: We need to be able to review the final product. Or we'll possibly be reviewing more then once
20:49:22 <ildikov> spotz: yep, but Google Docs is not the best for the reviewing part
20:49:36 <spotz> I think it might be odd no mater what:) Not sure if it's ghe same thing as Marst linked cause I haven't clicked yet but there was an open source slide tool with arrows for navigation
20:50:29 <ildikov> marst: in what perspective did you bring up Katacoda? I mean to see how they are doing training or to have OpenStack up there or both or something else?
20:51:24 <ildikov> spotz: our current issue is that we would need to get Sphinx in the picture and deal with .rst as source
20:51:25 <marst> ildikov: I think we could try to put openstack there, if it's not too difficult.
20:51:41 <marst> and it does support git.
20:52:00 <ildikov> marst: is it open source?
20:52:40 <marst> ildikov: not sure, but looks like no.
20:52:50 <marst> I haven't used it much, only for K8s trainings.
20:53:14 <ildikov> if it's not open source that's a problem
20:54:02 <ildikov> not saying OpenStack being there wouldn't be nice/useful
20:54:25 <ildikov> but using it for our training is less likely if it's a commercial-only product
20:56:36 <ildikov> ok, it seems we have a couple of things to think about! :)
20:56:45 <jungleboyj> :-)  Sounds good.
20:56:58 <ildikov> is there anything else to discuss for the remaining 3 minutes?
20:57:10 <jungleboyj> I have put brainstorming how to make the portal more friendly for those interested in Cinder into the agenda for the Cinder meeting this week.
20:57:22 <jungleboyj> smcginnis:  ^^^  :-0
20:57:25 <jungleboyj> :-)
20:57:31 <ildikov> jungleboyj: sounds good
20:57:52 <ildikov> jungleboyj: you might want to put it up on the agenda for next week as well tough :)
20:57:58 <ildikov> *though
20:58:08 <ildikov> I really need coffee now to be able to type :)
20:58:25 <jungleboyj> Yeah, probably.  Can get it started and then follow up when more people show up.
20:58:33 <jungleboyj> Attendance has been sadly light lately.
20:59:14 <ildikov> maybe the Summit prep, etc.
20:59:40 <ildikov> ok, that's it for this week, thanks everyone for joining!
20:59:42 <jungleboyj> Maybe.
21:00:01 <ildikov> please look into all the things we talked about and add more thoughts and exercise ideas to the etherpad
21:00:10 <jungleboyj> Will do.  :-)
21:00:14 <ildikov> I will look into Katacoda to get an idea what it is
21:00:32 <ildikov> and Happy Turkey to all our US team members :)
21:00:33 <smcginnis> Thanks!
21:00:49 <ildikov> #endmeeting