15:00:43 <piet> #startmeeting openstack_ux
15:00:44 <openstack> Meeting started Fri Jan 15 15:00:43 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is piet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:45 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00:48 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_ux'
15:01:14 <piet> Let's take a quick role call
15:02:55 <ducttape_> o/
15:02:59 <hurgleburgler> o/
15:03:10 <julim> hiya
15:03:50 <piet> Howdy!
15:04:13 <piet> #topic persona validation
15:05:06 <piet> We're currently running a survey to validate the five personas that were created in Austin this fall
15:05:52 <julim> awesome!
15:06:03 <piet> It essentially asks respondents to identify their roles which sends them to a specific survey wherre they effectively agree or disagree
15:06:49 <piet> Wondering out loud whether we'll find that all personas essentially do all tasks
15:07:09 <piet> ut, less or more of the time based on their specific roles
15:07:14 <julim> might depend on size of company and deployment phase
15:07:20 <piet> "But,"
15:07:44 <piet> We're capturing that as well.  I'm not looking forward to the analysis
15:08:20 <piet> The link to the survey is https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/2C27W3C
15:08:49 <piet> I'm hoping about ~ n=30 per persona
15:09:20 <piet> Please forward link to folks at your company!!  I'm begging!
15:10:09 <piet> The foundation has also committed to distributing the survey, but they went a bit quiet
15:10:16 <julim> cool
15:10:46 <tsufiev> piet, btw, I forwarded invite to an interview with app devs to my colleagues at Mirantis
15:10:55 <tsufiev> hopefully, somebody will respond
15:11:25 <piet> Cool - is that for scheduling for the User Dashboard study?
15:11:35 <piet> Or the persona validation?
15:11:49 <piet> One goes to survey monkey while the other goes to doodle
15:11:50 <tsufiev> it was about Enterprise App devs interviews
15:12:10 <piet> Sweet!  Excited about that study!
15:12:53 <piet> ducttape_ Do you have any app developers that could participate in a one hour interview?
15:13:20 <piet> robcresswell Do you have any app developers that could participate in a one hour interview?
15:13:32 <piet> The link is https://doodle.com/poll/5sqy2gr8c34fzqy8
15:13:55 <piet> Any questions about the persona study?
15:14:48 <piet> #topic User Dashboard Study
15:15:48 <piet> "User Dashboard Study" is not quite an accurate name.  This is really about understanding workflows/use cases around how app devs use horizon
15:16:20 <piet> Which should impact the UX design of the Overview panel
15:16:37 <tsufiev> piet, perhaps Kevin Fox who's working on App Catalog plugin may provide some feedback
15:16:54 <piet> Yep. he's already signed up!
15:16:56 <tsufiev> also, you may be interested to talk with Murano Apps devs
15:17:23 <tsufiev> kzaitsev_mb as the contact here
15:18:20 <piet> Just wrote it down
15:18:36 <piet> I may not have time today because I'm leaving for Seattle
15:18:42 <tsufiev> that's quite an interesting thing for me as well - but currently I'm quite busy with Horizon testability and performance stuff
15:19:28 <piet> You can always join one or two interviews and take notes.  We're generally set-up an etherpad annd have the observers take notes in real time
15:19:32 <tsufiev> we tried to design some patterns in Murano for a 'constructing composite apps in a Lego-like fashion', but clearly nobody of us had enough UX expertise
15:20:50 <tsufiev> piet, you mean, people may join to an interview and just watch silently?
15:20:54 <piet> Let me chat with someone at Intel.  I know there was also some interest in looking at Fuel.  They're just overwhelmed at the moment
15:21:21 <piet> tsufiev yes.  I also take breaks every ten minutes an allow the observers to ask questions
15:21:41 <tsufiev> interesting... are you going to publish interviews schedule?
15:21:56 <tsufiev> (when you have candidates)
15:22:15 <piet> We also collaborate on the questions that shoudl be included an an etherpad
15:22:42 <piet> We already have 3/8.  I typically send invites to interested parties
15:22:57 <tsufiev> I'd like to join and observe at least 1 or 2 interviews
15:23:07 <piet> The only caveat is that you are required to take notes if you observe
15:23:37 <tsufiev> I'll do my best )
15:24:20 <piet> That's all we ask ;^)  It's a bit tough if julim attends because she's an epic note taker
15:24:38 <piet> Any other questions?
15:25:20 <piet> hurgleburgler are you still with us?
15:25:20 <julim> piet... did I miss something?
15:25:37 <julim> are we talking ironic or fuel?
15:25:39 <piet> Heh..talking about what an epic notetaker you are
15:25:43 <hurgleburgler> o/
15:25:46 <julim> lol
15:25:51 <hurgleburgler> i'm lurking
15:25:59 <julim> happy to help in any way...
15:26:01 <piet> julim chatting about the user dashboard study
15:26:33 <piet> If you can, send out a link to anyone that is interested in participating https://doodle.com/poll/5sqy2gr8c34fzqy8
15:26:48 <piet> "We’re scheduling interviews with developers to help us understand their processes around developing, testing and deploying apps to the cloud. These are not folks that administer the cloud, but rather individuals that consumer cloud services. "
15:27:02 <piet> "consume"
15:27:15 <julim> is it possible to get a summary of all activities, and where we need folks to send out links or participate, etc.?
15:27:51 <julim> even if brief in a bullet form, it would be nice to broadcast what we're doing and also know where help is sought (kinda like a newsletter of sorts / status update)
15:27:52 <tsufiev> piet, what's the TZ in doodle?
15:27:59 <tsufiev> is it my local TZ or UTC?
15:28:00 <piet> Schedule here https://doodle.com/poll/5sqy2gr8c34fzqy8
15:28:20 <piet> You should be able to change ni the far right of doodle
15:29:20 <piet> Let me kow if you aren't able to set time zone and I'll take a look at the settings
15:30:01 <piet> Are we ready to move on?
15:30:10 <hurgleburgler> Yup
15:30:25 <piet> #topic Move to a UX repository
15:30:35 <tsufiev> yes. I logged there with my google acc, think it solves TZ ambiguity
15:30:38 <hurgleburgler> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/263357/
15:30:43 <piet> hurgleburgler the flow is yours
15:30:49 <piet> "floor"
15:30:57 <hurgleburgler> just need to fix up the things that robcresswell pointed out
15:31:28 <piet> Do you know when we can start posting mocks?
15:31:52 <hurgleburgler> well, we can post reviews to the repo, but they are going to fail Jenkins until we get the repo seeded with this stuff
15:32:20 <piet> What stuff?
15:32:29 <hurgleburgler> I can make the updates today, and if I can get a couple of +2s, then we can have it merged today, I think
15:32:36 <robcresswell> testing frameworks etc
15:32:40 <hurgleburgler> Its just a starting point too, so I'm sure its not exactly perfect
15:32:41 <piet> What's the link?
15:32:42 <robcresswell> I'll be around to +2 it
15:32:47 <hurgleburgler> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/263357/
15:33:05 <piet> Let me go there now
15:33:20 <piet> Done
15:33:22 <hurgleburgler> I'll need to make some updates first piet
15:33:25 <hurgleburgler> :-D
15:33:31 <ducttape_> I think some of that stuff, will need adjustments over time.  this repo will be special, compared to all the other openstack repos
15:33:33 <piet> Ohhh...my bad
15:34:04 <ducttape_> and did you talk w infra about getting images to show in gerrit hurgleburgler ?
15:34:12 <hurgleburgler> I think we can get it merged by today
15:34:12 <piet> The UX team is "special"
15:34:19 <ducttape_> I think that is possible, but takes some hacking
15:34:19 <hurgleburgler> I haven't yet, I can touch base with them though
15:34:39 <hurgleburgler> what are we thinking … just the basics?
15:34:42 <hurgleburgler> .png, .gif and .svg?
15:35:02 <hurgleburgler> .jpg
15:35:03 <robcresswell> doubt even .gif. More like png jpg
15:35:31 <piet> pdf
15:35:39 <hurgleburgler> I don't think that's possible
15:36:08 <ducttape_> animated gif - always
15:36:08 <hurgleburgler> I could be wrong, but I'm not sure you can embed pdf inside of a page
15:36:10 <piet> k - note that the png will either be huge or we'll need a few images
15:36:24 <piet> There are alot of screens for some of those mocks
15:36:32 <hurgleburgler> yeah
15:36:44 <hurgleburgler> people can always pull the code and look at it directly on their computers too
15:36:46 <ducttape_> it's really kind of like two divs or iframes.... content on left and right, let the browser mime types show em
15:37:29 <hurgleburgler> I'll reach out and see what they think
15:37:43 <piet> Slight tangent...I'm noting that some of the cores have fallen off the map.
15:38:03 <robcresswell> Yes, I've been pretty inactive.
15:38:15 <julim> I admit I'm not as active as I should be...
15:38:25 <piet> robcresswell you're fine
15:38:31 <robcresswell> *relief*
15:38:35 <piet> julim you're fine
15:38:41 <piet> ducttape is fine
15:38:41 <julim> <relief>
15:38:54 <piet> ducttape_ is fine
15:39:29 <piet> It's not just reviews, but also participating in studies, attending meetings, taking notes, etc
15:39:32 * ducttape_ comes out of hiding
15:39:37 <piet> So, everyone on this discussion is fine
15:39:55 <hurgleburgler> phew
15:40:02 <robcresswell> But everyone else is in trouble :p
15:40:12 <piet> How do we talk about adding/removing?
15:40:15 <tsufiev> lol )
15:40:23 <ducttape_> I think during each cycle, the PTL can add / remove new cores as needed.  I think this seems like something to do every 6 months, take inventory on anything that needs to be changed.  right?
15:40:26 <julim> piet - any thought to send a weekly email with updates/requests/etc?
15:40:50 <piet> We have been sending something once a week
15:40:59 <julim> just for things to review
15:41:00 <piet> Not consistently, though
15:41:07 <julim> but would be nice to be consistent, and also list the studies
15:41:13 <julim> pls. send out this or that link for x
15:41:20 <piet> k
15:41:22 <julim> and a due date
15:41:33 <julim> for each item so folks know when they need to respond by date
15:41:37 <julim> thx
15:42:07 <piet> We just missed this week
15:42:20 <piet> But I should also include reviews
15:42:41 <piet> Rather, include studies, recruiting efforts etc
15:42:46 <julim> yes.
15:42:57 <julim> you could even crowdsource getting it done...
15:42:58 <robcresswell> Sounds awesome
15:43:01 <piet> Any thoughts on how to add/remove folks?  IS that a group discussion?
15:43:06 <julim> make each lead responsible for filling the info in
15:43:09 <hurgleburgler> +1
15:43:34 <julim> to add/remove folks, it's typically done through voting in the regular projects
15:43:37 <robcresswell> piet: Technically, PTL decides cores, but just dropping people is a quick way to piss people/companies off
15:43:41 <piet> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ux-approval-priorities
15:43:54 <piet> robcresswell agree
15:44:04 <hurgleburgler> maybe we should agree on a minimum criteria to remain core
15:44:04 <julim> agree
15:44:07 <robcresswell> Best thing to do with inactive people is email and say you'd like them to be more active
15:44:27 <julim> but if you have clearly stated guidelines on the commitment and timeframe, it might be less fuzzy to folks
15:44:32 <julim> and what expectations are for cores
15:44:34 <ducttape_> yes, just dropping out of the blue is not ideal.  I wasn't sure if you had to vote to drop too?
15:44:36 <robcresswell> avoid public name and shame etc. Give people a couple weeks, if they dont sort it out, remove/ let them stand down.
15:44:58 <piet> robcresswell k
15:45:00 <julim> also you need to account for folks that are on vacation or fmla
15:45:02 <robcresswell> ducttape_: I dont think there is an official rule on voting for cores etc. I think the PTL just picks them.
15:45:04 <ducttape_> except for robcresswell, we can shame him a bunch ;)  (trolling)
15:45:11 <piet> Good advice.  I was a bit worried about pissing people off
15:45:13 <tsufiev> btw, speaking of review priorities - I think Identity Topology is pretty ready, no nobody besides me comes for the final vote
15:45:16 <matt-borland> I can be shamed as well :)
15:45:54 <piet> tsufiev Do you have a link?
15:46:33 <tsufiev> piet, https://openstack.invisionapp.com/d/main#/console/4926628/108119907/comments/45596866
15:47:08 <piet> Everyone please look at +2/-2.  In this case, the dev has been hugely receptive to feedback
15:47:32 <hurgleburgler> k
15:47:51 <piet> Also, take a look at https://invis.io/ZY5M6CJ4P
15:47:59 <piet> Modal Alerts stuff
15:48:55 <piet> So, props to hurgleburgler on her epic efforts on creating a rep.  Round of applause!
15:49:01 <ducttape_> so is that a pattern that might be used elsewhere?  I know the key creation is kind of an odd duck
15:49:20 <ducttape_> +1 for the new repo
15:49:31 <hurgleburgler> \o/
15:49:37 <hurgleburgler> How are we looking on the pattern library?
15:49:49 <piet> ducttape_ we are trying to use the same patterns across all alerts, but key pairs is weird
15:50:08 <hurgleburgler> Themeing in Horizon is coming along slowly … we will get to a point when we are ready to create a new theme based on the pattern library
15:50:24 <hurgleburgler> it would be great if the designs for it were vetted and done before we get to that point
15:50:33 <piet> hurgleburgler we need someone to start looking at storing patterns somewhere
15:51:13 <hurgleburgler> Store what?  The images?
15:52:05 <piet> Sonia (Intel) did a design, but mashed together a new layout for wizards, transfer tables and visual design. I've asked her to break them apart so no one gets confused about what to review
15:52:08 <ducttape_> seems like the repo we have, could have markdown content trying to walk through common patterns
15:52:22 <piet> ducttape Agreed
15:52:27 <hurgleburgler> Yeah
15:52:29 <piet> Patterns approval process
15:52:48 <piet> Sweet
15:53:11 <piet> hurgleburgler master plan is coming together ;^)
15:53:29 <hurgleburgler> ٩(͡๏̮͡๏)۶
15:53:39 <piet> What is that?
15:54:05 <robcresswell> Some kind of zany celebrating thing
15:54:11 <piet> It's kind of freaking me out
15:54:13 <tsufiev> a mechanic in large glasses?
15:54:42 <piet> Do you mind if I pound through a couple of other items? We're running out of time
15:55:09 <piet> #topic OpenStack UX mid-cycle London
15:55:10 <hurgleburgler> go for it
15:55:29 <piet> Recommended agenda is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-mid-cycle
15:55:36 <piet> Please add/edit
15:56:01 <hurgleburgler> this the one in london?
15:56:13 <piet> Yeah
15:56:20 <piet> #topic UX mid-cycle Portland
15:56:37 <piet> Agend is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-mid-cycle-portland
15:56:48 <piet> Please add/edit
15:57:20 <piet> #topic Proposed Mitaka papers
15:57:38 <piet> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-summitpresentations
15:57:48 <piet> Please add/edit
15:58:20 <piet> Also, I can only proposed three sessions, so may ask some of you to propose them
15:58:50 <piet> #topic Proposed interim change to review processes
15:59:43 <piet> I wanted to get your feedback on whether we should stop collecting +2/-2 on Invision since we are moving to a repo.  I'm noting that its getting a bit hard to manage
16:00:14 <piet> Invision is bit chaotic these days
16:00:21 <piet> Agree/Disagree?
16:00:27 <hurgleburgler> Agree.
16:00:31 <robcresswell> Agree
16:00:32 <matt-borland> Yeah, agree
16:00:32 <woodm1979> I'd agree.
16:00:33 <tsufiev> agree on moving to repo
16:00:37 <hurgleburgler> I never know what I'm supposed to be looking at
16:00:56 <ducttape_> Agree
16:01:42 <piet> You have my permission to shame anyone for trying to submit code w/o at least trying to solicit reviews in Invision on significant changes to designs
16:01:57 <piet> Heh
16:02:13 <piet> OK - will update wiki to updated reviews
16:02:20 <piet> OK - last item
16:02:33 <piet> #topic UI Guidelines Section in the OpenStack Documentation Contributor Guide
16:03:14 <piet> Linette is doing some good work to add content guidelines for Horizon.  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/ui-content-guidelines
16:03:28 <piet> I think robcresswell is tracking this...
16:03:31 <TravT> o/
16:03:41 <piet> Dude, hour too late
16:03:51 <TravT> well, i gave it a shot, anyway
16:03:53 <TravT> ;)
16:04:02 <piet> We've had some issues with the time change
16:04:13 <piet> Open floor
16:04:16 <TravT> yeah, my calendar entry isn't on UTC. i'll fix that
16:04:23 <piet> Otherwise we need to get out of her
16:04:26 <piet> "here"
16:04:44 <piet> travt we gave youu a bunch of action items
16:05:00 <piet> Going, going, going
16:05:09 <TravT> excellent, i'll add them to the pile of other things I'm failing to complete
16:05:10 <piet> Thanks everyone for your help!
16:05:18 <robcresswell> TravT: Know that feeling
16:05:18 <matt-borland> thx piet
16:05:24 <hurgleburgler> happy friday!
16:05:27 <piet> Cheers
16:05:32 <TravT> o/
16:05:36 <hurgleburgler> (◠‿◠✿)ノ
16:05:41 <piet> #endmeeting openstack_ux