15:02:09 <piet> #startmeeting openstack_ux
15:02:10 <openstack> Meeting started Fri Jan 29 15:02:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is piet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:11 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:02:13 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_ux'
15:02:29 <piet> Let's wait five minutes
15:02:49 <piet> robcresswell quick question about cisco
15:03:08 <robcresswell> Yeah?
15:04:05 <piet> Is cisco developing an internal cloud for it's developers, public cloud or services around the cloud?
15:05:07 <piet> Just cruious
15:05:32 <robcresswell> We have people on 1 and 3 iirc.
15:05:55 <piet> Kk
15:06:00 <robcresswell> But, the upstream guys are pretty far separated from the product efforts.
15:06:10 <piet> Kk
15:06:13 <piet> Persona Validation Survey
15:06:40 <piet> Role call
15:06:45 <piet> o?
15:06:53 <piet> Damg!
15:06:59 <piet> o/
15:07:05 <matt-borland> o/
15:07:08 <hurgleburgler> ٩(ˊ〇ˋ*)و
15:07:17 <piet> Just a warning, a bit tired...
15:07:39 <piet> #topic Persona Validation Survey
15:07:52 <piet> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/2C27W3C
15:08:41 <piet> I'm not sure there's a ton to talking about...we're lacking for respondents, so need help forward to as many people as possible
15:09:14 <piet> Any questions for me?
15:09:54 <piet> #topic User Dashboard Study
15:11:01 <piet> We are hurting for people willing to participate in this study.  I'm very worried because the general consensus seems to be that the Overview panel needs to be better for end users
15:11:51 <piet> I really ned you folks helping to find devs deploying to the cloud
15:12:00 <piet> https://doodle.com/poll/5sqy2gr8c34fzqy8
15:12:01 <matt-borland> I get the sense that this is a frequently changed/customized page
15:12:08 <matt-borland> because it's not useful :)
15:12:24 <piet> That wouldn't surprise me
15:12:50 <piet> I also feel as though we don't know enough about our end users
15:13:38 <piet> The intent of the study is to really understand workflows for end users who are ultimately our customers
15:14:09 <matt-borland> Yeah, and there are also the people that *don't use* Horizon because of it being unscalable, or cumbersome.
15:14:23 <matt-borland> so it's "potential" users that are important to me.
15:14:24 <piet> Yep
15:14:34 <matt-borland> I'd like to find those people.
15:15:04 <piet> I think there is the general question around workflows
15:15:39 <piet> Questions about scaling are really intended for operators, IMHO
15:16:16 <piet> Please, please, please forward that link
15:16:38 <piet> Are we ready to move on?
15:16:44 <matt-borland> y
15:17:07 <hurgleburgler> yup
15:17:15 <piet> #topic Mobile App Use Cases for Operators
15:17:53 <piet> Was kind of pulled into this study because there is a project around creating a mobile expereince
15:18:20 <hurgleburgler> Do they mean a mobile app or just somethign they can use on their phone?
15:18:29 <hurgleburgler> app vs. responsive design
15:19:04 <piet> We're not that far yet.  Really what to understand how users think about mobile
15:19:08 <hurgleburgler> There is a project around creating an IPHONE app, if I recall correctly
15:19:15 <piet> Same one
15:19:37 <hurgleburgler> what do we hope to prove with the study, I guess is my question?
15:19:52 <hurgleburgler> We are already pushing horizon toward a mobile friendly responsive design
15:20:01 <hurgleburgler> so, it will encompass both web and mobile
15:20:03 <piet> The project is vahana
15:20:39 <robcresswell> pushing, although a long way from it. I'm surprised there is any genuine need for it? I'd imagine most people just see email alerts etc and respond to that.
15:20:40 <hurgleburgler> what i'm saying is
15:20:43 <hurgleburgler> that is duplicating work
15:20:59 <piet> The goal is trying to understand the use cases.  We have no idea how operators think about mobile.
15:21:18 <hurgleburgler> Right now, 'default' just doesn't work on mobile, so no one is really using it
15:21:33 <piet> Before we talk abut the specific technology
15:21:40 <robcresswell> fair enough
15:22:21 <piet> I don't know if its an alerting system, just a small version of horizon or what...
15:23:38 <piet> Interestingly, one of the responses I'm getting during recruiting is that operators aren't really wanting for mobile
15:24:01 <matt-borland> interesting
15:24:27 <robcresswell> It gets mentioned at summits, but nothing really beyond "hey this is cool"
15:24:47 <piet> One response is "I wouldn't be a good recruit because I don't really care..."
15:25:13 <piet> robcresswell that was my impression too
15:25:29 <piet> However, they seem to be going down that path, so need to get ahead of it
15:25:42 <hurgleburgler> we are already going down that path as well
15:25:47 <piet> Maybe it's not the UI
15:27:21 <piet> Maybe they just enable operators to easily create their own UIs.  I just have no idea
15:27:44 <piet> Are we good to change topic?
15:27:48 <hurgleburgler> oh yeah
15:28:30 <piet> The take-away form the mobile study is that I don't have a clue what operators want
15:28:53 <piet> #topic Move to a UX repository (Gerrit)
15:28:54 <hurgleburgler> its a tricky subject
15:29:07 <piet> hurgleburgler anything to add?
15:29:21 <hurgleburgler> because if we can make horizon more of an actual dashboard, with real time status, then I can see people needed to check on it often
15:29:25 <hurgleburgler> that's it :)
15:29:26 <hurgleburgler> i'm done
15:29:31 <piet> Heh
15:30:13 <piet> hurgleburgler anything to add on gerritt?
15:30:39 <hurgleburgler> I'm working on it
15:30:48 <hurgleburgler> if anyone has experience in using SourceTree with Gerritt
15:30:53 <hurgleburgler> Any help would be appreciated
15:31:01 <hurgleburgler> I spun my wheels on it for a while, before i found this
15:31:09 <hurgleburgler> https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/SRCTREE-2940
15:31:22 <hurgleburgler> So, I downleveled my SourceTree and I need to try everything again
15:31:29 <piet> Ha!  ;^) My impression is that its ready, but we need to more on to a visual ui for the designers
15:31:58 <hurgleburgler> If we want to get stuff working right away, we might just have the non-command liney people do everything in the UI and then type 'git review' from the command line
15:32:13 <hurgleburgler> its a work around and it won't help them with conflicts, but they can start pushing stuff right away
15:32:19 <piet> Well, it seems like the devs can use it for now
15:32:26 <hurgleburgler> the repo is 100% ready for anything
15:32:44 <hurgleburgler> But
15:33:04 <piet> We should find something in Invision to push through
15:33:05 <hurgleburgler> git isn't necessarily good at handling binary files
15:33:20 <hurgleburgler> so, we will ONLY put up designs for final review that have gone through the Invision ringer
15:33:22 <hurgleburgler> AND
15:33:22 <piet> Why is that?
15:33:35 <hurgleburgler> I really really want us to get to a point where all of the mockups are just SVG wireframes
15:33:40 <hurgleburgler> SVGs are just text files
15:33:59 <hurgleburgler> so, uploading them to the repo takes up less space
15:34:00 <piet> You know, I haven't really played with the SVG format
15:34:12 <hurgleburgler> We can discuss the options
15:34:18 <hurgleburgler> But … this also brings up another point
15:34:23 <piet> Is the resolution OK?
15:34:28 <hurgleburgler> we are continuing to get designs from UX that are full mock ups
15:34:33 <hurgleburgler> How can we solve this?
15:34:35 <piet> Agreed
15:34:55 <piet> We need to document the requirements for Invision
15:35:01 <hurgleburgler> We can ask that before the final design is uploaded to the repo for developers to begin work on, that the design transfer it to an svg wireframe
15:35:16 <hurgleburgler> or, we can just start -2'ing anything that gives full visual designs
15:35:42 <robcresswell> Invision is so damn slow.
15:35:45 <robcresswell> *sigh*
15:35:50 <hurgleburgler> It crashes my firefox constantly
15:35:52 <piet> Yep
15:36:26 <piet> I was goig to mention this during another topic, but we may need to go through and archive stuff that's done
15:36:38 <hurgleburgler> what is done?
15:36:58 <hurgleburgler> can we convert what designs are complete and start checking those into the repo?
15:36:59 <piet> It will be anything accepted in the repo
15:37:24 <piet> Sure - I would look at the ironic panel to start
15:38:00 <piet> hurgleburgler let's circle back on your comment about wireframes
15:38:13 <hurgleburgler> Can we get a list of all of the designs that have gone through Invision?
15:38:29 <piet> Currently displayed?
15:38:59 <piet> I think the group can do that - don't wait for me.
15:39:27 <hurgleburgler> ??
15:39:33 <piet> matt-borland can you go through and archive the stuff that is complete by TWs?
15:39:41 <robcresswell> hurgleburgler: Just the ones that are listed as All Done right?
15:39:48 <robcresswell> on invision.
15:39:52 <matt-borland> piet, sure, I can dig through all that.
15:40:05 <piet> robcresswell yeah
15:40:12 <hurgleburgler> who can we tap to convert them to wireframes?
15:40:53 <hurgleburgler> I can help, but I can't do them all
15:40:55 <hurgleburgler> it will take ages
15:41:27 <hurgleburgler> We can write up guidelines for designs as well
15:41:38 <hurgleburgler> we can add them to the specs on our repo
15:41:43 <piet> Currently, it seems to be London that's adding the designs w visual designs.  I'm trying to take care of that internally. To be fair, this is nothing that is explicit about what we will accpet
15:42:12 <hurgleburgler> Exactly
15:42:20 <hurgleburgler> but, switching is going to be a bit of overhead
15:42:30 <hurgleburgler> including converting the images AND writing up the guidelines
15:42:34 <piet> I think archiving the TW stuff will make a difference
15:42:39 <hurgleburgler> Just seeing who can help out with the initial load
15:42:54 <piet> And I can get rid of the old concept stuff
15:43:03 <hurgleburgler> Also, how are we handling intake requests?
15:43:17 <piet> hurgleburgler What do you mean?
15:43:21 <hurgleburgler> We should start asking people to create blueprints and bugs
15:43:30 <hurgleburgler> now that we have the capability
15:43:49 <piet> Associated with the designs they post to Invision?
15:44:05 <hurgleburgler> If there is a new design thta is needed
15:44:12 <hurgleburgler> or another project needs help with a design
15:44:30 <piet> It makes sense because it formalizes the review process
15:44:48 <hurgleburgler> Then, we can prioritize things a bit more too
15:45:06 <piet> I would add that they should add a link to the blueprint in Invision
15:45:28 <hurgleburgler> Yeah
15:45:33 <hurgleburgler> Blueprints get accepted
15:45:54 <piet> k
15:45:55 <hurgleburgler> so, we can focus on the work that has been accepted, instead of the chaos
15:46:24 <piet> The chaos is bringing me down
15:46:37 <hurgleburgler> lol
15:46:47 <piet> Ready to move on?
15:46:56 <hurgleburgler> yup
15:47:29 <piet> #topic Documentation needs
15:47:42 <piet> This kind of fits into the previous conversation
15:48:13 <piet> We need to start documenting the different process along w guides
15:48:20 <hurgleburgler> We have a wiki and we have developer docs now …
15:48:23 <robcresswell> There's a doc folder in the repo right?
15:48:25 <hurgleburgler> How do we decide what goes where?
15:49:08 <robcresswell> We should flesh out the Contributing doc in the repo so its up on docs.openstack.org
15:49:29 <piet> I need to chat with the docs people on a project-by-project basis because there are different kinds
15:49:29 <hurgleburgler> robcresswell +1
15:49:55 <piet> Nice....in the contributor area?
15:50:08 <hurgleburgler> Contributing doc needs to include sections on 'Design guidelines', 'Reviewing guidelines', 'Invision', 'Intake Process' ?
15:50:29 <piet> Yeah
15:50:39 <hurgleburgler> Can we get some volunteers to start writing up the sections?
15:50:45 <hurgleburgler> I'll take Design Guidelines
15:50:50 <robcresswell> I'm away for the next week
15:50:59 <piet> I think we can merge Design, review and invision into one.
15:51:02 <robcresswell> But can do some after that
15:51:02 <hurgleburgler> Since I'm apparently the most opinionated about that one
15:51:10 <hurgleburgler> Thanks robcresswell!
15:51:18 <hurgleburgler> I think waiting a week is alright
15:51:20 <piet> How does content get submitted?
15:51:27 <hurgleburgler> via the repo
15:51:34 <piet> Thanks robcresswell !
15:51:39 <hurgleburgler> until we get the sourcetree stuff sorted out, if you write up content Piet, I can show you how to push it
15:51:47 <piet> k
15:51:56 <hurgleburgler> robcresswell which section would you like ot take?
15:52:02 <piet> I may ask the docs people to help with this
15:52:29 <piet> They were the ones that are doing the UI Content Guidelines
15:52:38 <hurgleburgler> matt-borland are you able to take a section to help out?
15:52:49 <piet> But need to ask (nicely)
15:53:03 <robcresswell> hurgleburgler: I dont mind. I was probably going to sit down one afternoon and just churn out a step by step of getting new content into UX
15:53:09 <robcresswell> similar to what Horizon has
15:53:17 <hurgleburgler> great!
15:53:22 <robcresswell> What we're looking for, tools to use, workflow etc.
15:53:23 <matt-borland> hurgleburgler, sure
15:53:31 <piet> Yep
15:53:37 <hurgleburgler> What would you title that robcresswell?
15:54:23 <robcresswell> hurgleburgler: I was just gonna update the base Contributing doc in the repo. Its empty atm
15:54:36 <hurgleburgler> Perfect :)
15:54:46 <robcresswell> Something like this http://docs.openstack.org/developer/horizon/contributing.html But UX-ified
15:54:47 <hurgleburgler> Piet can you write up something on the Invision process?
15:55:02 <hurgleburgler> UX-ified means we need fancy animations and icons
15:55:05 <hurgleburgler> \o/
15:55:33 <piet> Where is the Contributing doc located?
15:55:38 <hurgleburgler> In the repo
15:55:40 <hurgleburgler> when we make it
15:55:46 <hurgleburgler> erm, when robcresswell makes it
15:55:48 <hurgleburgler> and pushes it
15:55:59 <hurgleburgler> baby steps
15:56:01 <piet> Where do users find it
15:56:15 <hurgleburgler> we can start working on it now, and then have the docs people review and help when they can
15:56:41 <piet> Would it be located at http://docs.openstack.org/developer/horizon/contributing.html ?
15:57:03 <hurgleburgler> Yeah, when we get it on docs.openstack.org
15:57:13 <hurgleburgler> Not sure if we need to anything special to get it included, but we'll see
15:57:45 <piet> yeah, it would be good to chat w docs to see if they have any ideas
15:57:55 <robcresswell> They dont get involved in dev docs
15:57:57 <robcresswell> I've asked before
15:58:08 <piet> k
15:58:23 <hurgleburgler> Should we also detail the responsibilities that we expect from cores?
15:58:29 <piet> One last thing
15:58:39 <piet> Since we're out of time
15:58:53 <hurgleburgler> k
15:58:58 <piet> Pls review https://invis.io/JD56836CQ
15:59:04 <piet> Ironic standalone
15:59:53 <piet> Review summit proposals https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-summitpresentations
16:00:21 <piet> robcresswell pls review "Ten steps to accomodate your users"
16:00:35 <robcresswell> Will do
16:00:40 <piet> Submitting this weekend
16:00:59 <piet> ok - out of time, thanks for attending
16:01:04 <piet> Any last words?
16:01:20 <piet> 5
16:01:22 <piet> 4
16:01:23 <piet> 3
16:01:25 <piet> 2
16:01:25 <jacalcat> I will get mine done today. Probably late this afternoon.
16:01:30 <hurgleburgler> have a green weekend!
16:01:35 <hurgleburgler> great too, erg
16:01:45 <piet> Yep - you can also decide who to inlcude as co-presenters
16:02:03 <piet> Bye!
16:02:17 <piet> #endmeeting openstack_ux