19:00:02 <j^2> #startmeeting operators_ops_tools_monitoring
19:00:04 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jan 13 19:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is j^2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:05 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:00:07 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'operators_ops_tools_monitoring'
19:00:15 <j^2> #topic rollcall
19:00:19 <j^2> hey everyone!
19:00:32 <raginbajin> o/
19:00:35 <raginbajin> Hey there.
19:00:59 <j^2> like normal i’ll give everyone ~5 mins to trickle in
19:01:22 * jamespd waves.
19:01:37 <j^2> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-irc-meeting-20160113
19:01:42 <j^2> that is the agenda ^^
19:03:30 <j^2> i take the responsibility for not sending out the reminder email, my bad :(
19:04:08 <balajin> hello
19:04:20 <j^2> hi!
19:04:30 <j^2> going to officially start in about 2 mins
19:04:33 <balajin> okay
19:05:31 <j^2> #topic Talk about releases for repos other than tools-contrib and tools-generic
19:05:50 <j^2> we punted on this last time
19:06:08 <j^2> has anyone else come up with any thoughts or ideas about this?
19:07:11 <j^2> ?
19:07:22 * jamespd didn't catch the last meeting.  was there a particular point of contention?
19:07:39 <j^2> jamespd: creating releases for the different repos
19:07:49 <j^2> there’s a plus side to it, and a few negitives
19:08:08 <jamespd> by creating releases are you talking about tagging commits or packaging?
19:08:08 <j^2> we state in the wiki we won’t but EmilienM was asking for us to
19:08:26 <j^2> i think both
19:08:42 <j^2> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
19:08:52 <j^2> we state: We don't plan on having releases, but we do plan on collecting useful resources for anything ranging from Junior to Senior level administrators.
19:09:27 <j^2> there is a lot of overhead with creating releases and getting in the pipelines, and i lean towards saying our community isn’t large enough to have that level of overhead
19:09:45 <j^2> it’s a nice to have when we grow, but hell…4? people are here right now
19:09:54 <PaulCzar> Idon't really see any value in either releases or packages
19:09:59 <raginbajin> I have to agree. That is what I immediately think about when it comes to managing by release
19:10:05 <jamespd> Yeah... I agree about that at this point.
19:10:06 <PaulCzar> unless its for a specific tool inside osops
19:10:10 <raginbajin> especially if there are code changes and back porting, etc
19:10:32 <PaulCzar> give our ops focus, many of the tools will be written for older releases of openstack
19:10:38 <j^2> yep
19:11:37 <balajin> so far we have been seeing primarily scripts
19:11:42 <j^2> so with this input i’m getting that we _aren’t_ going to support creating releases
19:11:53 <balajin> can we have it loock for the versions in the script or have it called out there
19:12:10 <balajin> when we are building tools which needs interop, we can evaluate the need for releases
19:12:13 <balajin> my 2cents
19:12:25 <raginbajin> I think that's a great idea once we get more continous commits.
19:12:32 <j^2> raginbajin: agreed
19:12:40 <balajin> primarily given the amount of people involved and the effort it is needed for the release
19:12:41 <raginbajin> I think we are fortunate to get what we have.
19:12:51 <jamespd> raginbajin: agreed
19:12:51 <balajin> raginbajin: it is only the begining
19:13:16 <j^2> balajin: that’s true, but we still need to get involvement
19:13:43 <j^2> it’s not   growing at a constant rate by any standard; we built it…but the aren’t coming
19:13:57 <raginbajin> I think it goes back to the work load to do this at this point in time.   I think it's a great idea, just not at this junction
19:14:11 <jamespd> +!
19:14:14 <jamespd> +1
19:14:30 <j^2> raginbajin: works for me
19:15:06 <j^2> anything else or continue on?
19:15:37 <j^2> #topic Talk about osops-coda
19:15:59 <j^2> we have another official osops project:
19:16:11 <j^2> #link https://github.com/openstack/osops-coda
19:16:35 <j^2> i just wanted to make sure everyone saw it and we are slowly growing the namespace
19:16:53 <raginbajin> I think it's great.
19:16:55 <j^2> this one specifically we haven’t gotten gates in yet, but that’s still slowly happening
19:17:16 <PaulCzar> interesting.  would this be useful for say cleaning up after rally runs ?
19:17:33 <j^2> PaulCzar: that’s an interesting use case
19:17:53 <balajin> nice
19:17:56 <j^2> i could see a great opportunity there come to think of it
19:18:04 <j^2> if y’all take some time to check it out that would be awesome
19:18:45 <PaulCzar> I could totally see something like coda moving towards release/packaging
19:19:05 <j^2> PaulCzar: yep, that’s why it’s in it’s own repo
19:19:07 <raginbajin> PaulCzar: +1
19:19:26 <j^2> the previous topic was about tools-generic or tools-contrib
19:19:36 <j^2> which causes…challenges
19:20:25 <raginbajin> Will the HPE team manage the commits, etc
19:20:47 <j^2> raginbajin: nope, they gave it to us to run with it after they get the gates in
19:21:15 <j^2> they wanted the exposure to our community because they realized that if they spun up their own project no one would ever look at it
19:21:29 <raginbajin> ahh.  Do we fear that since none of us really work on Coda that it will eventually go stale or we can't keep up with any blueprints or bugs
19:22:06 <jamespd> ^^ I worry about this.
19:22:37 <j^2> yeah that’s a challenge, it’s something that we’ll have to see happen et al. just the exposure alone is the most important part
19:22:42 <PaulCzar> totally ...  is this repo "upstream" for the HPE team ... or do they work on their own repo and push up to it ?
19:22:54 <j^2> neither, the project is dead at HPE
19:23:00 <PaulCzar> ahhh
19:23:04 <PaulCzar> glhf ?
19:23:10 <jamespd> heh
19:23:11 <j^2> they wanted to give it to OS as something that we could use if we wanted to
19:23:42 <PaulCzar> was there talk about it becoming part of horizon ?
19:23:44 <j^2> PaulCzar: in essence yeah.
19:23:49 <j^2> that too
19:24:00 <j^2> this is a place where we could if we see the use cases
19:24:42 <j^2> we just need to see if the project takes off
19:25:44 <j^2> ok, we have a couple more things to go through before we get to new business
19:25:53 <j^2> #topic notes4chairs
19:25:59 <j^2> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OSOpsNotes4Chairs
19:26:11 <j^2> I created this wiki page so we can start helping out Chairs for this meeting
19:26:39 <j^2> I don’t want to be the chair forever, and i hope someone else will be willing to take it and run with it
19:26:57 <j^2> we can take it out of this meeting and talk about a way to get volunteers to step up
19:27:20 <j^2> any thoughts or questions? going to wait for 3 mins before moving on…..
19:27:36 <raginbajin> But j^2 you've done a great job. why would you not do this forever? You are much better than me..
19:27:43 <j^2> raginbajin: ha!
19:27:52 <balajin> +1
19:28:15 <PaulCzar> I will add,while projects are in their infancy it's pretty important to have a strong and consistent leader
19:28:18 <balajin> unless not a big burden for you j^2, i would like you to continue until we gain momentum
19:28:22 <PaulCzar> which j^2 fits the bill
19:28:38 <raginbajin> See even balajin thinks you are better than me.. Even though my last name is almost his username..
19:28:44 <raginbajin> :)
19:28:59 <j^2> raginbajin, PaulCzar, balajin: wow, thanks, ok, i’ll continue on, i had no idea I was worried that i was playing too much of a dictator
19:29:18 <balajin> raginbajin: sorrythat came out of context
19:29:29 <balajin> it is for j^2 doing a good job and asking to continue
19:29:35 <j^2> :D
19:29:44 <j^2> ok, cool, thanks guys
19:29:47 <balajin> sorry, no inner readings please :)
19:30:00 <j^2> #topic Waiting on so we can add the bashte jobs to tools generic
19:30:13 <j^2> so we’ve added bashte jobs to tools-generic as a gate
19:30:26 <j^2> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229031/
19:30:30 <j^2> #link -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229043/
19:30:38 <rockyg> hey, sorry Im late..
19:30:43 <j^2> which is what we are expecting
19:30:56 <j^2> i need to add the pep8 to tools-generic also
19:31:05 <j^2> unless someone can take that action item
19:31:29 <j^2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64
19:31:44 <j^2> it’s funnier if you get the title after the fact
19:32:04 * jamespd giggles
19:32:43 <j^2> heh, ok, so i’ll take getting pep8 in
19:32:50 <j^2> ok, new businees
19:32:53 <j^2> business
19:33:02 <j^2> #topic paulcz: talk about moving the terriform tooling to it's own repo
19:33:09 <j^2> PaulCzar: make your case :D
19:33:48 <PaulCzar> I don't feel too strongly about it ...  but I think it might make sense to have an official terraform repo
19:34:07 <rockyg> We're getting enough repos, maybe we should go for our own tree?  like openstack-ops?
19:34:38 <rockyg> I bet infra would be up for it.  And they're the ones who maintain this...
19:35:05 <j^2> rockyg: that makes sense, but at the same time we need more involvement before we “break away” or whatever
19:35:32 <j^2> as a reminder, the ultimate goal of this project is to get Operators an “easy way” to get ATC
19:35:34 <PaulCzar> we should probably get more participation before getting it its own repo tho
19:35:39 <rockyg> I think we can up participation by socializing at the midcycle.  Any of you gonna be ther?
19:35:40 <j^2> PaulCzar: agreed
19:35:45 <PaulCzar> ATC is an interestingpoint
19:36:03 <j^2> rockyg: couldn’t get the funds to make it happen. England was too far :(
19:36:06 <PaulCzar> I don't get a lot of time to contribute upstream because I'm always fighting the tire fire that is operating openstack
19:36:19 <rockyg> Full agreement.  But infra  repos=ATC (and defcore doesn't)
19:36:31 <PaulCzar> and not getting ATC for doing this ...   makes me less inclined to do it
19:36:43 <PaulCzar> when I could work elsewhere upstream and get ATC
19:36:51 <PaulCzar> ROI and all that
19:37:03 <rockyg> Can we put together an etherpad I can socialize at the midcycle?  I'll be there.
19:37:04 <j^2> yep, we need involvement and a “group” of people before we can ask to get approved to get ATC. It was/is a chicken and egg problem
19:37:54 <rockyg> Also, on folks running for board, JJ and I are not the only ones who want ATC for Ops participants.... Just so you know where to put your votes;-0
19:38:11 <j^2> ha! well said rockyg
19:38:34 <rockyg> And, yeah.  The TC holding the power is kinda difficult.
19:39:10 <rockyg> But FYI, TC is looking to update the OpenStack mission to include Ops/User community as part of mission statement
19:39:38 <balajin> i recall j^2 mentioning something about ops getting ATC
19:39:51 <balajin> and that was the primary reason we were going for osops under big tent
19:39:56 <balajin> am i missing someting
19:40:01 <rockyg> Yeah.  Lots of user community oriented folks are pushing.
19:40:02 <j^2> balajin: yep :D that was the ultimate goal
19:40:02 <balajin> or was it for the openstack-chef stuff
19:40:20 <rockyg> Nope.  Ops code contributions should count.
19:40:23 <j^2> balajin: that’s true, openstack-chef you do already
19:40:39 <balajin> everyone need to realize that ops support is as critical as code
19:41:05 <j^2> balajin: yep, that’s more true then most anything
19:41:07 <raginbajin> agreed
19:41:24 <rockyg> +1000 and that the projects are writing code for ops and apps dev, not themselves
19:42:37 <j^2> we kinda went off topic here
19:42:51 <j^2> is there any objection to moving PaulCzar ’s changes to it’s own repo?
19:42:56 <rockyg> Speaking of which, fYI, if you're not aware, I'm the person puushing log improvements, but I've realized we have to fix config options global, and locations, etc to all be talking about the same thing
19:43:12 <rockyg> ++ to new repo
19:43:55 <j^2> cool, i’ll make that happen asap
19:44:04 <j^2> last topic then open floor
19:44:13 <j^2> #topic balajin: Fixing the ical to reflect correct dates (it shows up on my calendar every week)
19:44:22 <balajin> yah, just added that
19:44:24 <j^2> yep, that annoys the hell out of me too
19:44:29 <balajin> there were several folks in this irc last week
19:44:31 <balajin> including  me
19:44:43 <rockyg> and me...
19:44:47 <balajin> :)
19:44:49 <j^2> I’ve been posted on the mailing list pretty regularly ;)
19:44:56 <rockyg> and I keep getting the time wrong :-(
19:45:07 <j^2> ok, i’ll take the item to clean that up
19:45:31 <j^2> (i’m starting to think this is a chance for y’all just to point out where I’ve fucked up or missed something)
19:45:35 <j^2> :P
19:45:49 <j^2> anyway, i’ll make it happen :D
19:45:55 <rockyg> Well, in that case.....
19:45:56 <j^2> #topic open floor
19:46:19 <j^2> ok, so selfishly, if y’all haven’t voted yet, please consider me as a candidate :D
19:46:25 <j^2> JJ Asghar
19:46:33 <rockyg> Your doing great and thanks for your hard work and I'm voting for you....and me....and Stephano
19:46:45 <j^2> I’d love to continue this work and a macro level; and i think i can :D
19:46:55 <j^2> rockyg: +1+
19:47:04 <balajin> j^2: i have done my bit for you
19:47:07 <rockyg> And please consider me, too.  I think JJ and I could make a great team ;-0
19:47:11 <j^2> :D
19:47:21 * jamespd makes notes
19:48:31 <j^2> does this image make sense?
19:48:32 <j^2> https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/5/5a/Osops-tools-process.png
19:48:44 <rockyg> Guys, I'm gonna try to put together a spreadsheet of all the config opts out there, what the defaults are, where they get set/reset/changed, etc.  If I can get it together before the midcycle, I'd love you guys to edit/comment
19:48:52 <rockyg> Itll be a google sheet
19:49:07 <balajin> ok
19:49:18 <jamespd> j^2: yeah, I like the image.
19:49:24 <j^2> jamespd: :D
19:50:28 <rockyg> Nova is making there stuff more consistent, so I think we can get global configs in N.  and I like the image, too.  Can you merge that in as a readme image (as opposed to readme.rst)?
19:50:48 <j^2> rockyg: not sure tbh
19:51:09 <j^2> getting that image up there was a lot harder then it should have been
19:51:35 <rockyg> The file would just a binary instead of text.  It *should* work, but that doesn't mean it *will*
19:51:56 <rockyg> Can't do diffs across versions, but....don't really need that.
19:52:07 <j^2> time check 8 mins
19:52:20 <j^2> anyone who hasn’t spoken up, is there anything you’d like to talk about?
19:52:54 <rockyg> etherpad for what you want me to report to midcycle...
19:53:26 <rockyg> j^2, could you put something together for me?
19:53:29 <PaulCzar> rockyg: I'll likely be at midcycle as well
19:53:48 <j^2> rockyg: yeah i’m not 100% sure on this tbh.  what’s an email addy i can talk to you off line?
19:54:11 <rockyg> Great! and if we have a start of etherpad, we can discuss at next meeting.  rockyg at gmail dot com
19:54:19 <j^2> kk, will do
19:54:28 <rockyg> kewl!
19:54:59 <rockyg> I just try to juggle too many tasks to make things better....tend to drop/forget them
19:55:39 <j^2> cool, anything else?
19:56:56 <j^2> awesome, thanks everyone, i’ll put notes and all together
19:57:04 <rockyg> Doing a great job j^2
19:57:05 <jamespd> thanks j^2.
19:57:07 <j^2> and send something to the the ML probably tomorrow
19:57:23 <j^2> #endmeeting