19:01:05 <raginbajin> #startmeeting operators_ops_tools_monitoring
19:01:06 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Apr  6 19:01:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is raginbajin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:07 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:01:10 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'operators_ops_tools_monitoring'
19:01:13 <mriedem> o/
19:01:17 <raginbajin> o/
19:01:18 <dansmith> o/
19:01:43 <raginbajin> Agenda  - Can be found here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-irc-meeting-20160406
19:01:46 <raginbajin> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-irc-meeting-20160406
19:02:23 <raginbajin> Only real set of topics is the last email I sent out looking for ideas and help about how does OSOps help collect all the meetup and other data points.
19:02:40 <raginbajin> and I may need to run early depending on a few things.
19:03:16 <raginbajin> #topic OSOps and Collecting Issues/Comments/User Stories
19:03:32 <mriedem> i didn't see much response in the ops thread on that
19:03:39 <raginbajin> :(
19:03:41 <mriedem> some guy mentioned wanting scripts to migrate nova-network to neutron
19:03:46 <mriedem> which is kind of not related to that thread
19:04:18 <raginbajin> Yeah and another about coming to the Product Working Group to add user stories to their project.
19:04:27 <raginbajin> Which is the end result of what I think we can do for Operators.
19:04:45 <mriedem> raginbajin: i don't think i've ever actually seen something come from the product working group into nova as a spec or a requirements
19:05:00 <mriedem> maybe sideways via cross-project specs, which has it's own efficiency problems
19:05:30 <mriedem> we need someone that can take the specs from the customer and bring them to the developers
19:05:36 <raginbajin> Exactly
19:05:37 <dansmith> lol
19:05:42 <mriedem> someone with people skills
19:06:07 <raginbajin> hehe.. Yeah That's exactly what I am thinking.
19:06:18 <raginbajin> We create all these etherpads during our meetups
19:06:27 <raginbajin> how do we capture them and get them to you and other projects.
19:06:45 <raginbajin> I can manually do it, but that's not the best way or any sort of efficient.
19:06:51 <mriedem> this is why i was hoping to get an ops cross-project liaison for nova to attend ops things and funnel that back to the dev team
19:07:01 <mriedem> melwitt and sdague and others have done that before,
19:07:13 <mriedem> or at least by opening bugs in nova or relaying highlights (pain points) in the dev ML
19:07:26 <raginbajin> I asked Tom F. for some some thoughts and we are going to catch-up in a day or two.
19:07:43 <mriedem> ok. really just a rundown of highlights from ops meetups in the dev list is a good start
19:07:51 <raginbajin> Hmm Ok.. That's an idea as well. See if I can get an Nova Ops liason going.
19:08:50 <raginbajin> #idea Creating a Liason that would be the ops representative to particular projects and feed information back and forth.
19:09:08 <raginbajin> #idea Populating the highlights of the Ops Meetup Etherpads to the Dev List as a start.
19:09:12 <mriedem> to be clear, it doesn't need to be an ops person, it could be a nova dev
19:09:28 <mriedem> just needs to be someone that can funnel the info and prioritize it
19:09:51 <raginbajin> gotcha..
19:10:48 <mriedem> was there going to be a monday summit session about some of this?
19:10:56 <raginbajin> Yes. There is
19:11:15 <raginbajin> Basically the same thing we are discussing now. I'm hoping to have more ideas maybe with help from Tom a few others to have more to talk about then
19:11:39 <raginbajin> I'll be running that session then and then also the OSOps one as well, but that is hopefully going to be about more that OSOps and Operators can do.
19:12:38 <raginbajin> I think there isn't much to discuss about this more since we are the only two talking about it this week and last.
19:12:40 <raginbajin> :)
19:12:54 <raginbajin> I'll keep on the operators to see if I get any more feedback from them
19:12:56 <mriedem> yeah, i just want to make sure that markus_z is at the right session
19:13:32 <raginbajin> I'm going to create an etherpad once I get more info about when and where. I know the times for some sessions moved around.
19:14:08 <raginbajin> You have anything else for this one.
19:14:09 <raginbajin> ?
19:14:11 <mriedem> nope
19:14:15 <raginbajin> cool
19:14:17 <raginbajin> #topic Nova has removed the default flavors for new deployments.
19:14:31 <mriedem> just an fyi really
19:14:37 <mriedem> there was the favorable ops thread
19:14:43 <mriedem> and one in the dev list which is a bit more colorful
19:14:54 <raginbajin> Yeah.. This one got some decent conversation on our list.
19:14:56 <mriedem> #link default flavor removal ops thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-March/010045.html
19:15:17 <mriedem> #link default flavor removal dev thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/091434.html
19:15:24 <raginbajin> I'm still in the camp that we should have an option that people could run to add those back in during an install, but I see what everyone else is saying.
19:16:00 <mriedem> i think that's a choice for the deployment scripts at this point
19:16:05 <mriedem> and always should have been
19:16:10 <klindgren> we must be in the minority that use slightly modified defaults
19:16:46 <klindgren> but I think for us - puppet is taking care of it - so it should be good.
19:17:39 <raginbajin> klindgren: apparently so..  Yeah. We create ours as well, but sometimes you just need an example quickly for something. Going from nothing to something is sometimes hard, which I why its ok and could have just been a file someone ran to add them
19:18:16 <dansmith> raginbajin: you mean like sometimes you just need a sample image to test with?
19:19:17 <clayton> klindgren: if puppet is taking care of it for you, then you're probably carrying local patches
19:19:27 <clayton> unfortunately puppet-nova can't manage flavors currently
19:19:41 <bauzas> I think people misunderstand the difference between a source and a deployment
19:19:57 <clayton> we have some home grown stuff for managing flavors via puppet that I'd love to throw away
19:20:06 <bauzas> removing flavors from source doesn't mean that deployers won't provide them
19:20:37 <bauzas> so, we agreed on providing flavors for devstack, but deployers can still provide the same flavors than devstack too
19:20:46 <clayton> sure, but it's an extra step that has to be taken now.
19:20:46 <bauzas> like puppet, Fuel or OSP...
19:20:58 <bauzas> that's why we have release notes
19:21:00 <clayton> it'd be nice if the script for creating the flavors was part of the nova repo in tools/ or something, instead of part of devstack
19:21:10 <dansmith> clayton: but presumably you wouldn't want us to seed a default image right?
19:21:21 <clayton> no, but you've never done that before either
19:21:25 <dansmith> clayton: what if we seeded a default instance so that `nova show` worked right out of the box? :)
19:21:37 <dansmith> clayton: right, we never should have done this either
19:21:37 <clayton> I think flavors are inherently less opinionated than images
19:21:45 <raginbajin> Setting up an image is much different than flavors.
19:21:52 <raginbajin> clayton: agreed.
19:21:56 <bauzas> nova provides APIs, not items
19:21:59 <dansmith> it's data in the database
19:22:00 <dansmith> yeah
19:22:07 <clayton> to clarify, I'm fine with the change.  it doesn't effect us at all, but I understand where other people are coming from
19:22:23 <clayton> it probably feels gratitutous if you do use them.
19:22:24 <bauzas> so, if people want to use API resources for creating items, that's a deployment case
19:22:31 <raginbajin> agreed.. It's already been approved and this was just an FYI more than anything in the meeting.
19:22:57 <raginbajin> I'd like to see if there is any new business to talk about
19:23:03 <bauzas> I don't see a burden for deployers adding flavors tbh
19:23:08 <raginbajin> #topic New Business
19:23:22 <klindgren> @clayton you are correct apparently uts part of our tools setup that stored in puppet and is just a bash script
19:23:49 <clayton> I remember that mdorman contributed a patch for doing it that wasn't accepted that I thought should have been :)
19:23:50 <klindgren> and slack has forever damaged me with the use of a @ infront of peoples names
19:24:12 <clayton> bauzas: clearly it's a burden, it's just a very minor one.
19:24:28 <bauzas> clayton: exactly like any other upgrade change we do
19:24:41 <klindgren> as long as flavor creation works in cells v2
19:24:43 <sdague> clayton: https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack/blob/5df868e83d2761fec9cdfba1c04df17c6a766fb4/lib/nova#L947-L951 is exactly what you need
19:24:54 <klindgren> since it was horrible horrible horrible broken in cellsv1
19:25:10 <dansmith> klindgren: it will, unless tenant.name == klindgren :P
19:25:11 <raginbajin> Can I ask someone to take over as the admin.. I have to leave but want this conversation to keep going.
19:25:29 <dansmith> klindgren: literally, this change came from making flavors proper cellsv2 citizens, by the way
19:25:40 <bauzas> yup
19:25:45 <mriedem> raginbajin: i can
19:25:46 <klindgren> w00t w00t - +100
19:25:48 <klindgren> then
19:26:22 <raginbajin> #addchair mriedem
19:26:29 <bauzas> #chair rather
19:26:37 <raginbajin> #chair mriedem
19:26:38 <openstack> Current chairs: mriedem raginbajin
19:26:43 <raginbajin> Thanks!
19:27:03 <raginbajin> Sorry about that.. Thanks guys.. our next meeting will be at the Summit.. I"ll send out notes once I get back online
19:27:23 <mriedem> klindgren: clayton: others - did anyone else have anything new to go over?
19:27:31 <clayton> sdague: again, I don't have a problem with them being removed, but at the bottom of a nearly 1000 line shell script in a repo most operators never look at it's very discoverable :)
19:27:43 <clayton> isn't very discoverable I mean :)
19:28:07 <mriedem> there is nothing else in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-irc-meeting-20160406
19:28:27 <mriedem> i say we wrap this up then
19:29:07 <mriedem> not hearing anything, i'm going to end the meeting, thanks everyone
19:29:09 <mriedem> #endmeeting