21:29:53 <ShillaSaebi> #startmeeting ops_guide
21:29:54 <openstack> Meeting started Thu May  5 21:29:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ShillaSaebi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:29:55 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:29:57 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ops_guide'
21:29:59 <ShillaSaebi> hi everyone
21:30:04 <ShillaSaebi> sorry about the confusion earlier
21:30:11 <DevonBoatwright> Hello!
21:30:13 <ShillaSaebi> anyone here from the ops guide/arch guide group
21:30:16 <ShillaSaebi> hi DevonBoatwright
21:31:16 <DevonBoatwright> Is it just us?
21:31:36 <ShillaSaebi> im not sure
21:31:36 <shaunom> Its very quiet.
21:31:38 <ShillaSaebi> anyone else here?
21:31:41 <ShillaSaebi> hi shaunom
21:31:58 <shaunom> Hi ShillSaebi
21:31:58 <ShillaSaebi> anyone else here for the ops/arch guide meeting?
21:33:43 <ShillaSaebi> ok looks like its the 3 of us
21:33:48 <ShillaSaebi> lets go ahead and get started
21:34:44 <ShillaSaebi> #topic Summit debrief
21:34:52 <ShillaSaebi> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/austin-docs-newtonplan
21:34:57 <ShillaSaebi> these are the deliverables for Newton
21:35:01 <ShillaSaebi> you can see the ops/arch guide section at the top
21:35:09 <ShillaSaebi> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/AUS-ops-Docs-ops-guide
21:36:06 <ShillaSaebi> So the RST conversion has been completed and the ops-guide has been migrated to openstack-manuals
21:36:41 <ShillaSaebi> we should establish a list of operator tasks #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-arch-tasks
21:38:38 <rstarmer> OpsGuid discussion?  Sorry I joined late, I've got poor connectivity this week.
21:38:38 <shaunom> So we have started a review for the blueprint arch-guide-restructure https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311998/
21:39:17 <rstarmer> shaunom: there's a lot to review, I hope to be able to get through it this week :)
21:39:35 <ShillaSaebi> hello yes
21:39:41 <ShillaSaebi> thanks for joining
21:40:12 <ShillaSaebi> We're also looking for volunteers to to identify outdated content or content to be removed...
21:40:23 <ShillaSaebi> Feedback can be added to #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-guide-reorg
21:40:41 <ShillaSaebi> I hope to carve some time out next week to work on some of this stuff
21:41:10 <DevonBoatwright> I can help with that, too
21:42:21 <ShillaSaebi> awesome! thanks @DevonBoatwright
21:42:26 <rstarmer> during the summit we discussed trying to get to a "task focused" view of operations, possibly with tags to correlate data into the chapters that Shaun and Darren pulled together during the friday meetup at the summit.
21:42:56 <ShillaSaebi> DarrenC is currently in an internal meeting but should be joining here in a couple of minutes
21:44:20 <shaunom> I am busy with and update that explains the chapter structure a little better, will hopefully provide more clarity.
21:44:55 <shaunom> I would like to discuss the tagging idea further.
21:45:06 <rstarmer> shaunom: I'm happy to review as you get something together.  I'm finding I have about an hour these days to try to contribute.
21:46:29 <ShillaSaebi> ditto
21:46:31 <shaunom> rstarmer: Thats great, I have had a fair bit of airline time to think during the last week.
21:46:38 <ShillaSaebi> nice
21:46:51 <rstarmer> tagging is something that I still feel can be useful, especially if we can define a set of obvious tags for things.  even if there's no real support in the web ui (as there was apparently at one point for tags at the project level), it would be useful as a piece of the backend to pull topics into multiple "example" streams.
21:47:05 <shaunom> +1
21:48:15 <ShillaSaebi> +1
21:48:42 <darrenc> hi everyone
21:48:58 <ShillaSaebi> hi darrenc
21:48:59 * darrenc reads backwards
21:48:59 <ShillaSaebi> welcome!
21:49:58 <darrenc> sorry, can you explain what you mean by tagging?
21:50:45 <shaunom> The basic idea is to associate information across the various guides by utilising a searchable tagging mechanism.
21:51:01 <rstarmer> what shaunom: said :)
21:51:19 <ShillaSaebi> yeah and that was to replace the TOC right?
21:51:24 <ShillaSaebi> or would it be in addition to it
21:51:26 <rstarmer> even if we can't search for tags, they could be useful for grouping task based chunks into topic areas
21:51:43 <rstarmer> yeah, and there might be a hierarchy that comes out of that
21:51:44 <shaunom> IMO it wouldn't replace the TOC
21:51:53 <shaunom> but support it.
21:52:14 <rstarmer> for example, you could have solution tags, that might be equivalent to a TOC, and then task area tags, that woudl fit under a solution
21:52:39 <rstarmer> e.g. public vs. private solutions, and compute scale vs. multi-hypervisor support tags as part of the compute domain
21:52:54 <ShillaSaebi> ok
21:52:59 <ShillaSaebi> yeah that makes sense
21:53:01 <darrenc> yep ok
21:53:03 <ShillaSaebi> +1
21:53:05 <rstarmer> I agre, you'd still want a general table of contents, basically waht's in the etherpad ATM.
21:53:57 <shaunom> yup
21:54:00 <ShillaSaebi> ok
21:54:01 <rstarmer> if someone wants to describe an operational task, e.g adding logging to compute instances, that might get a public, and private tag, along with a compute tag, and a hypervisor specific tag, like kvm or vmware.
21:54:12 <rstarmer> and a logging tag.
21:55:15 <rstarmer> then someone interested in logging would be able to search for (or we might have to do some fancy work on the backend baring a seacrh process) to look at all the logging related tasks, and at somepoint, if filtering system was in place, if someone determined something was only useful for private vs. public clouds, you could exclude tasks that were likely not useful for a particular operating type
21:55:48 <ShillaSaebi> ok
21:56:24 <ShillaSaebi> i like the way this is going
21:56:47 <darrenc> right, so we would have a bunch of meta tags in our source files
21:56:54 <ShillaSaebi> ok
21:56:57 <rstarmer> initially, I'd just suggest we incorporate a tag strucutre, based initially on the TOC to each task that gets creatd, we can see if there's already enough flexability in the only documentation presentation engine to do specific search/filtering capabilites.
21:57:01 <rstarmer> yep
21:57:23 <shaunom> +1
21:58:43 <darrenc> We would need to talk to Andeas Jaeger or Christian about that
21:59:04 <ShillaSaebi> ok
21:59:25 <shaunom> Should we start a etherpad on the topic?
21:59:42 <ShillaSaebi> sure we can do that
21:59:48 <darrenc> yep
22:00:34 <shaunom> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/docs-tagging
22:01:20 <ShillaSaebi> cool thanks!
22:03:11 <ShillaSaebi> once we get some content in here, we can send this off to Andreas and Christian for approval?
22:03:15 <ShillaSaebi> or should we do it beforehand
22:03:52 <darrenc> I think gather our thoughts on the etherpad, then mention it on the docs mailing list
22:03:58 <ShillaSaebi> ok
22:04:01 <ShillaSaebi> we can do that
22:04:42 <darrenc> If we get consensus on this, then we or Andreas can draft a spec to implement changes
22:05:37 <ShillaSaebi> awesome
22:05:41 <darrenc> I don't think we'll get anyone opposing this
22:05:55 <shaunom> I am in Germany for the next two weeks, so I can also try and touchbase with him in his timezone.
22:06:02 <ShillaSaebi> oh sweet
22:07:25 <shaunom> On a different point, and coming back to the TOC for the arch guide.
22:07:51 <shaunom> I am going to push another patch to the review with a bit more explanation base on the feedback so far.
22:08:01 <shaunom> Are the any questions I can answer now?
22:08:15 <shaunom> *there
22:08:23 <ShillaSaebi> i cant think of any as of right now
22:08:32 <DevonBoatwright> No questions from me
22:08:59 <darrenc> none from me
22:09:55 <ShillaSaebi> awesome
22:10:00 <ShillaSaebi> is there anything else anyone wants to bring up
22:10:35 <shaunom> not from me
22:10:59 <darrenc> did we discuss finding other ops volunteers to help with the ops guide?
22:11:34 <darrenc> I think put the call out on the ops mailing list
22:11:45 <ShillaSaebi> yeah we need to
22:11:54 <ShillaSaebi> so DevonBoatwright and I have tried in the past
22:11:56 <ShillaSaebi> anyone else want to give it a shot? heh
22:12:02 <ShillaSaebi> might have better luck
22:12:53 <DevonBoatwright> Yea, no one really answered it, did they? :(
22:13:01 <ShillaSaebi> nope
22:13:02 <ShillaSaebi> heh
22:13:19 <shaunom> I can try asking internally, but no promises.
22:13:39 <darrenc> another thing we discussed at summit was attending the ops meetings
22:15:02 <darrenc> It would be a good opportunity  find volunteers
22:15:05 <darrenc> to*
22:16:09 <ShillaSaebi> ok
22:16:17 <ShillaSaebi> i can add it to our cal and try to join
22:16:54 <ShillaSaebi> ok anything else anyone wants to bring up for this week?
22:16:54 <darrenc> yep, sounds good
22:17:00 <DevonBoatwright> I don't mind joining, too
22:17:34 <darrenc> well, I'm not clear on what our approach with the ops-guide should be?
22:17:41 <ShillaSaebi> awesome thanks @DevonBoatwright
22:17:54 <ShillaSaebi> I think we were suppose to go through the ops and arch guide to find duplicate info
22:18:04 <ShillaSaebi> and then also identify outdated info
22:20:15 <darrenc> Ok, so perhaps we ask for volunteers on the mailing list for help
22:20:29 <darrenc> and everyone can jot their thoughts in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-guide-reorg
22:20:58 <ShillaSaebi> awesome
22:21:07 <ShillaSaebi> hopefully we'll get some volunteers!
22:21:07 <darrenc> and we can look at the etherpad at our next meeting
22:21:22 <ShillaSaebi> we have some others too that are willing to help
22:21:25 <ShillaSaebi> Vic and Nate
22:21:36 <ShillaSaebi> but I sent them the wrong cal invite from the ics file
22:21:39 <ShillaSaebi> my bad :\
22:21:45 <DevonBoatwright> lol
22:21:45 <ShillaSaebi> so hopefully that wont happen for the next wknd
22:21:45 <darrenc> and then create bugs or work items list for all the changes
22:21:49 <ShillaSaebi> yes
22:22:55 <darrenc> Ok, I'll send a message on the ops and docs mailing list
22:24:48 <DevonBoatwright> ok, I have an appt so I need to leave.
22:25:32 <ShillaSaebi> ok cool sounds good
22:25:34 <ShillaSaebi> well we are about out of time
22:25:37 <ShillaSaebi> thanks everyone for joining
22:25:40 <DevonBoatwright> See yall.
22:25:43 <DevonBoatwright> Thanks Shilla!
22:25:48 <rstarmer> thanks!
22:25:50 <shaunom> Thanks
22:25:50 <ShillaSaebi> thanks all!
22:25:51 <darrenc> thanks
22:25:54 <ShillaSaebi> #endmeeting