14:04:42 <mihalis68_> #startmeeting ops-meetup-team
14:04:43 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Sep 15 14:04:42 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mihalis68_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:04:44 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:04:46 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ops_meetup_team'
14:05:13 <mihalis68_> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ops-meetups-team
14:05:32 <mihalis68_> I have not put anything on the agenda, but that's where it should go
14:05:41 <mihalis68_> just wanted to try and get going again
14:05:47 <mihalis68_> first off, how is everyone?
14:06:16 <shintaro> o/
14:06:20 <smcginnis> Alive. :]
14:07:09 <mihalis68_> it is literally cold here. I think it's the smoke haze reaching the east coast
14:07:18 <mihalis68_> NYC is not doing as bad as some would have you believe, however
14:07:32 <mihalis68_> it's healthy enough to have a traffic jam and horns blaring outside my window right now!
14:08:00 <smcginnis> The sun was red here this morning. I'm assuming it's from the smoke too.
14:08:05 <mihalis68_> so, to business
14:08:13 <mihalis68_> I put down for 4 hours of PTG
14:09:08 <mihalis68_> which is currently propsed to be :
14:09:13 <mihalis68_> 1 ops team catchup
14:09:32 <spotz> It was actually nice here yesterday. Had a breeze when I rode in the morning and trained the dogs at 6 at night
14:09:32 <mihalis68_> 2 long term maintenance/EM branches
14:09:41 <mihalis68_> 3 ops/openstack/ceph
14:09:49 <mihalis68_> 4 OsOps (Sean)
14:10:13 <smcginnis> +1
14:10:14 <mihalis68_> I didn't put in for forum sessions, howevr
14:10:29 <mihalis68_> to be honest, I don't comprehend the upcoming event at all. Have not been paying attenion
14:10:47 <smcginnis> That's probably fine for now. At least it's a start and keeps things going.
14:10:58 <dcapone2004> I saw a message on the mailing list about this group/team was wondering if someone could provide a summary of this team/group and its purpose / goals....
14:11:07 <mihalis68_> sure thing
14:11:14 <mihalis68_> this meeting is the "Ops Meetups Team".
14:11:21 <mihalis68_> that's openstack operators
14:11:27 <spotz> Usually i Forum we have like the war stories session
14:11:27 <mihalis68_> i.e. people actually running the stuff
14:11:46 <mihalis68_> I think we missed the forum deadline? I onl;y just spotted jimmy's email about that
14:11:51 <mihalis68_> perhaps it's not too late
14:11:54 <spotz> mihalis68_: Not yet
14:12:17 <mihalis68_> dcapone2004: this team has pulled together in-person meetups of that community
14:12:43 <mihalis68_> we've done NYC twice, phillie, mexico city, berlin, tokyo, london
14:13:27 <mihalis68_> since in-person meetups are currently impossible, we've been kind of on break. The last event was in January in London
14:13:40 <dcapone2004> ok, that is sort of what I thought....I don't quite have any war stories just yet (thank god).... but hearing them is basically what I was after to learn a bit about things that have gone wrong and how it was resolved...
14:14:48 <mihalis68_> a lot of the past events left writeups - see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups
14:15:17 <mihalis68_> so should we propose a forum session too?
14:16:27 <spotz> I think it would be good even just for visibility
14:16:48 <mihalis68_> war stories?
14:16:58 <spotz> They haven't chosen a platform last I asked so not sure how it'll all go
14:17:05 <spotz> Yeah it's popular:)
14:17:13 <mihalis68_> the survey said can you use zoom, meetpad, other
14:18:26 <mihalis68_> meetpad works ok for me, but I think perhaps it's a bit heavy
14:18:41 <spotz> Ok that must be for forum/ptg. I wasn't sure if it was using the same as summit
14:18:47 <mihalis68_> I can do zoom now, I just put it in my windows VM rather than native in my personal mac desktop
14:18:59 <mihalis68_> summit I don't know anything about, honestly.
14:19:13 <smcginnis> Either works for me, but I like at least trying to use jitsi.
14:20:29 <mihalis68_> (meetpad is a name for openstack infrastructure team's jitsi instance, for anyone not following)
14:20:30 <spotz> As long as we're 18 or under Jitsi will work we can just plan for a backup if we go over
14:20:48 <spotz> yeah sorry:)
14:21:35 <spotz> But TripleO ran into that number limitation during the PTG where it works fine to we've overloaded it
14:21:40 <mihalis68_> forum is supposed to be more about interchange between openstack developers, operators and end-users
14:22:09 <spotz> Yep and the opportunity to get feedback in both directions
14:22:10 <mihalis68_> in the past we've done some forum things and some ptg things that are honestly not that different
14:22:39 <mihalis68_> putting the two events in adjacent weeks makes it hard to comprehend for me
14:22:49 <mihalis68_> it's like we all get together... then we all get together
14:23:02 <mihalis68_> it's different for, say, cinder dev team. They know their own meetings are week 2
14:23:24 <spotz> Well we all get together and then the devs take from the other event and discuss it and start designing
14:23:56 <mihalis68_> do I have it right? summit/forum week 1, ptg week 2?
14:24:10 <spotz> Well keep in mind users and ops don't normally get to go to the PTG. In this case the PTG was voted to be the following week just cause it was the best option
14:24:18 <spotz> yes
14:24:46 <mihalis68_> ops used to be literally not invited to PTG, then they changed their mind and wrote us right in, remmeber the denver event?
14:25:08 <mihalis68_> then they combined ptg and summit at an in person events, which was vancouver IIRC
14:25:16 <mihalis68_> or am I misremembering
14:26:11 <spotz> I always thought OPS wanted to be separate. But PTG started as the design summit which was part of summit, then separated to a separate PTG. Can't remember being combined in Sydney
14:27:02 <mihalis68_> when's the real deadline for Forum submissions then?
14:27:37 <spotz> I would do it today if the CFP still works or contact Jimmy and ask
14:27:51 <mihalis68_> I wish erik were here. I've been pinging him
14:28:01 <mihalis68_> he has young kids and they may be back at virtual school. Not easy
14:28:34 <spotz> I'm pretty sure there's still a few days as I reached out last week to Allison and fungi about ESI submitting a session
14:29:03 <spotz> I'd say we could move the time a little but timezones
14:30:10 <mihalis68_> ok, looks like we wont have erik during this meeting. I wanted to get his take on what we should do during forum. To me the idea of getting togegther to talk about upgrades and extended maintenance might be better during summit
14:30:15 <mihalis68_> or perhaps do it in both
14:30:23 <mihalis68_> it is something that is hitting us where I work right now
14:30:43 <mihalis68_> we're getting to quite some scale on Rocky but it has dropped off our vendor support matrix
14:30:47 <spotz> Do it both weeks and we can always adjust
14:31:11 <mihalis68_> and your reminder of war stories is also a good one
14:31:16 <mihalis68_> is that a summit thing? Or a PTG thing?
14:31:22 <smcginnis> I guess worst case, the virtual room will sit empty.
14:33:27 <mihalis68_> what do others think we should propose for Summit/Forum in particular (disregarding what we've put in for PTG for a minute)?
14:35:21 <spotz> War stories was FOrum/summit
14:35:29 <shintaro> LT with popular voting was fun.
14:35:46 <mihalis68_> LT?
14:36:22 <shintaro> war story lightning talk I think we did that in NYC and one I counldn attend
14:36:35 <mihalis68_> oh yeah lightning talk, right
14:36:42 <mihalis68_> sorry, its still early ish here
14:37:06 <spotz> I remember war stories being a few room down from me I think in Denver at Summit
14:37:14 <mihalis68_> so perhaps one session on ops war stories, and one about "ops issues"? upgrades, pain points, tools?
14:37:20 <mihalis68_> for summit
14:37:23 <spotz> Sounds like a plan
14:37:34 <mihalis68_> and then possibly adjust what we actually do at PTG based on how forum goes?
14:37:52 <mihalis68_> Ok I'll email jimmy now and cc: the team
14:37:58 <spotz> Yeah. Think of PTG as working sessions vs information gathering or sharing
14:38:21 <spotz> That's how I do it:)
14:39:01 <mihalis68_> the trouble is, the ops people can't really get together and work on their installations. They do that at their day jobs
14:39:23 <mihalis68_> you and I can't do a hackathon on my employers openstack clusters
14:39:37 <spotz> no but we plan things which is working
14:39:43 <mihalis68_> the work is info gathering
14:40:08 <mihalis68_> ok. I'll talk to jimmy and see if we can get two slots as mentioned above, and I also have four slots tentatively in PTG
14:40:17 <mihalis68_> let's change up
14:40:24 <mihalis68_> should we try to meet again next week?
14:40:48 <mihalis68_> or two weeks time?
14:40:59 <smcginnis> Two weeks maybe?
14:41:00 <spotz> We should meet at least once more before summit/forum/ptg but not sure next week
14:41:06 <mihalis68_> ok two weeks
14:41:22 <mihalis68_> Sept 29th
14:41:23 <mihalis68_> same time?
14:41:27 <mihalis68_> does this work?
14:41:31 <mihalis68_> this time slot in particular?
14:41:58 <shintaro> works for me
14:42:02 <mihalis68_> ok, I guess it works for those that made it :)
14:42:07 <mihalis68_> not so much for erik
14:42:22 <mihalis68_> thanks shintaro. I will aim for same time two weeks hence
14:42:24 <spotz> I could go a little earlier
14:42:42 <spotz> Not sure that's better for earlier and we can't go much later for Shintaro
14:42:53 <spotz> earlier=erik:(
14:43:03 <shintaro> same time is fine
14:43:17 <mihalis68_> how is this time slot for you sean?
14:43:41 <mihalis68_> suspect he's multi-tasking this with other things right now as it
14:43:45 <mihalis68_> as it is
14:44:02 <spotz> That's the joy or IRC meetings:)
14:44:11 <shintaro> what time does the summit/ptg start? that would be more critical for us in Asia
14:44:31 <mihalis68_> I am going to email jimmy, then i'll tweet out the proposals and also time/date of next meeting
14:44:35 <smcginnis> Good for me.
14:44:43 <spotz> shintaro: I've been told it's in CST which is my time. It's currently 9:45 am here
14:45:12 <mihalis68_> i have proposed 14:00 UTC. 15:00 UTC on the Thursday and friday of PTF
14:45:14 <mihalis68_> PTG
14:45:22 <mihalis68_> which is more in the work day for you Shintaro I believe
14:45:31 <mihalis68_> oh no, it's not. Darn
14:45:37 <shintaro> so it would be pretty tough for us
14:46:13 <shintaro> but anyway I can help preparing the session
14:46:34 <spotz> I'm pretty sure this meeting is 14:00 UTC
14:46:58 <spotz> I kow D&I is 1700 and that's noon my time, I use that as my UTC reference:)
14:47:22 <mihalis68_> I think we could pull the PTG sessions earlier
14:48:16 <spotz> I can do an hour earlier on Thursday but I think 1200 UTC is my workout time on Thursday
14:49:53 <mihalis68_> how about this, i'll tweet the proposed sessions from @OSOpsMeetup. Respond if it strongly does or does not work. Let's see
14:49:57 <mihalis68_> there's no perfect time
14:50:06 <mihalis68_> we can't work it out during todays IRC meeting clearly
14:50:30 <mihalis68_> I can move my timetable around to suit as a one-off each of those weeks
14:50:45 <mihalis68_> #topic any other business
14:50:52 <mihalis68_> anyone got anything else for today?
14:51:16 <spotz> DO we want to try to hold a virtual OPS Meetup?
14:51:47 <mihalis68_> you mean distinct from summit/forum and PTG?
14:52:02 <spotz> Yeah like our normal
14:52:13 <smcginnis> We could post/tweet to see if anyone is interested in doing it.
14:52:33 <smcginnis> I've helped our local python user group move to virtual meetups, and it's actually worked quite well.
14:52:34 <mihalis68_> I put an ops meetups team catch-up as first slot in PTG. That could be a topic
14:52:35 <spotz> Or if everyone is burntout but we'd be shooting for 2021 at this point anyways
14:52:55 <smcginnis> If we lined up a few speakers, could be a good way to reach out to more ops.
14:53:16 <smcginnis> I think that's a good plan mihalis68_. Let's discuss as part of the PTG and see what everyone thinks.
14:53:19 <mihalis68_> I'd be game to try
14:53:29 <spotz> I know OpenDev was popular. +1
14:54:11 <mihalis68_> one idea I've been kicking around is because we don't travel, there is no need to try to get a lot done in a concentrated period of time
14:54:17 <zigo> Please, not zoom, it doesn't work over here (on Debian).
14:54:40 <zigo> Jitsi is fine.
14:54:40 <mihalis68_> in other words instead of 2 days twice a year, how about a short event every couple of weeks or something
14:55:14 <zigo> (sorry, I'm late, reading the backlog)
14:55:15 <mihalis68_> one name for what I'm thinking of that came to me is "Ops Radio"
14:55:27 <mihalis68_> like a radio show with people calling in
14:55:28 <spotz> We can do that. and if we ever wanted to do some twitch streaming I can arrange that
14:55:48 <shintaro> sounds interesting
14:55:55 <mihalis68_> it could have a cadence where it's in prime time in each of the major global regions alternating
14:56:11 <zigo> I'd be happy to join such a "show" ! :)
14:56:12 <smcginnis> That could work. That's one thing I've seen with these online meetups - it's usually easier if they are shorter events.
14:56:28 <zigo> Be sure to retransmit somewhere more visible than just twitch though.
14:56:40 <spotz> I can arrange straming stuff through RH either as my team or RDO
14:56:50 <spotz> restreams everywhere
14:56:53 <mihalis68_> the two day ops meetups were a bit draining, certainly for me, what with travelling and having to run sessions and often also worry about logistics
14:57:13 <spotz> I definitely think 3-4 hours max
14:57:32 <spotz> that's what OpenDev did and we're shooting for with OUI
14:57:36 <mihalis68_> for the platform issue, we could use meetpad for the registered participants, but take questions on the etherpad and possibly stream it out for a wider audience of random viewers
14:58:05 <mihalis68_> one issue we would need to work out is are these things recorded
14:58:19 <mihalis68_> we have been able to speak very freely at ops meetups becuse they were not recorded
14:58:31 <zigo> What's meepad? A Jitsi like thingy?
14:58:36 <zigo> meetpad
14:58:37 <spotz> I think that's our choice
14:58:43 <spotz> zigo: yeah
14:58:45 <mihalis68_> meetpad is specifically jitsi on open infra
14:58:56 <mihalis68_> i.e. the old openstack infrastructure stuff
14:58:58 <zigo> Oh, sorry, ok ! :)
14:59:02 <mihalis68_> it has etherpad integration
14:59:16 <mihalis68_> and yes we do take the "zoom problem" very seriously
14:59:27 <mihalis68_> I was publically critical of the foundation's move to jump straight to zoom
14:59:37 <mihalis68_> which is not at all in line with the 3 opens
14:59:42 <mihalis68_> it's like guys, wtaf?
14:59:52 <zigo> Me too, but got some backfire on the list because of that.
15:00:10 <mihalis68_> I can accept that at the time they did not see any alternative
15:00:13 <spotz> mihalis68_: yeah don't disagree. We tried hard to hold as much as possible on meetpad but hit limits
15:00:23 <mihalis68_> something which enabled getting together was needed, zoom worked, ok.
15:00:46 <mihalis68_> but we can use meetpad for meetings up to 18 - that is in line with the real *participant* numbers of ops meetups
15:00:52 <mihalis68_> not people in the room btu people speaking
15:01:06 <mihalis68_> if we can also stream it out, it's both workable and totally open
15:01:22 <mihalis68_> ok, we ran over time. Sorry
15:01:24 <mihalis68_> final comments
15:01:31 <mihalis68_> before I end it
15:01:34 <mihalis68_> anyone?
15:01:49 <mihalis68_> #endmeeting