16:00:05 <dims> #startmeeting oslo
16:00:06 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Sep 28 16:00:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dims. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:07 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:09 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'oslo'
16:00:12 <dims> courtesy ping for GheRivero, amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, harlowja, haypo,
16:00:13 <dims> courtesy ping for ihrachyshka, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz, lifeless, lintan, ozamiatin, redrobot, rpodolyaka,
16:00:13 <dims> courtesy ping for sergmelikyan, sreshetnyak, sileht, sreshetnyak, stevemar, therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek
16:00:17 <johnsom> o/
16:00:17 <harlowja_at_home> sup
16:00:20 <e0ne> hi
16:00:20 <zzzeek> o/
16:00:21 <stevemar> dims: o/
16:00:21 <redrobot> o/
16:00:22 <markus_z> o/
16:00:28 <bknudson> hodor
16:00:31 <stevemar> congrats bknudson!
16:00:43 <stevemar> i feel like i just hijacked a #topic...
16:00:45 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:00:46 <dims> ^^ yep congrats!
16:00:48 <jungleboyj> o/  Kind of.  In two meetings.
16:00:57 <dims> jungleboyj: ack
16:01:17 <jungleboyj> bknudson: What did I miss?
16:01:28 <kzaitsev_mb> o/
16:01:32 <dims> #topic welcome to new core member brant :)
16:01:46 <harlowja_at_home> video about bknudson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLtBFQDAGE lol
16:01:48 <toabctl> hi
16:01:49 <jungleboyj> dims: Thank you.  :-)
16:01:49 <bknudson> I feel like I'm joining the A-Team now.
16:01:57 <jungleboyj> bknudson: Congratulations!
16:02:02 <markus_z> hooray for bknudson
16:02:28 <bknudson> thanks
16:02:34 <dims> #topic oslo doc sprint
16:02:41 <dims> here's the stats - http://markmail.org/message/kt6rn5czawxvkjaz
16:02:43 <harlowja_at_home> 88thousand commits
16:02:45 <harlowja_at_home> nice
16:03:15 <dims> we did good. hoping to get more folks involved next time :)
16:03:29 <bknudson> 88 commits is pretty good for any 2 days
16:03:42 <harlowja_at_home> def
16:03:45 <dims> bknudson: yep. ++
16:03:49 <dims> #topic Red flags for/from liaisons
16:04:15 <johnsom> Nothing here other than pain with the new coverage
16:04:15 <harlowja_at_home> an idea, for liasons, ourselves, should we send out something like http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075628.html for oslo?
16:04:24 <bknudson> nothing from keystone.
16:04:25 <jungleboyj> Nothing from Cinder right now.
16:05:11 <dims> harlowja_at_home: good idea, theirs seem to be towards end users
16:05:15 <johnsom> Sure, I can promote a survey in my projects if you have questions for the folks.
16:05:32 <harlowja_at_home> dims, right, maybe we can brainstorm on questions or something later
16:05:37 <dims> harlowja_at_home: ++
16:05:49 <dims> #topic Releases for Liberty/Mitaka
16:05:56 <dims> We have not made any releases for Mitaka from master yet.
16:05:56 <dims> Does anyone have anything backported from master to stable/liberty?
16:06:16 <bknudson> you going to up the minor version # for M?
16:06:34 <bknudson> alternatively, how about remove a bunch of deprecated stuff and up the major version # for M
16:07:00 <harlowja_at_home> i'd like to do that in M (for taskflow); dump a bunch of deprecated stuf
16:07:29 <dims> bknudson: will depend on library i think, we should get dhellmann's input. (he's running an errand)
16:07:46 <dims> harlowja_at_home: ++
16:08:08 <dims> #topic openstack spec - a common bug report utility
16:08:08 <dims> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/227736/
16:08:09 <harlowja_at_home> guess i gotta fix https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198914/ before that though, ha
16:08:27 <dims> So markus_z brought it up in a few venues...
16:08:30 <dims> markus_z: around?
16:08:38 <markus_z> yepp. It's this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/227736/
16:08:59 <harlowja_at_home> is that like the firefox/windows bug reporting tool(s) ?
16:09:12 <harlowja_at_home> firefox/windows/linux other ...
16:09:22 <markus_z> basically I'd like to have something which produces me bug-reports with the minimum debug infos.
16:09:56 <harlowja_at_home> cool
16:09:56 <markus_z> collect the logs, confs, pip freeze and so on
16:10:22 <markus_z> I asked the Cinder and Neutron folks, their bug reports lack (like in Nova) the minimal debug information in the bug reports.
16:10:53 <kzaitsev_mb> that'd definitelly be a nice tool to have
16:10:55 <markus_z> The open questions are: Do we want this? If "yes", which repo should host it?
16:11:32 <bknudson> If we had stackforge I'd say put it in stackforge
16:11:47 <markus_z> What do you think about an "oslo.bugreport" repo?
16:11:52 <harlowja_at_home> imho, oslo is fine, move it around if people feel it belongs in a different repo in the future? (i don't feel that its worth debating about to much honestly)
16:11:52 <bknudson> if it gets enough users and contributors then move it into oslo.
16:11:55 <dims> markus_z: we don't have a tools oriented repo right now. oslo-incubator will be removed shortly
16:12:56 <dims> markus_z: do you have a prototype anywhere?
16:12:58 <harlowja_at_home> or just openstack/bugreport at the top-level, (is something like that possible now in the big-tent?)
16:13:12 <markus_z> dims: sorry, no prototype yet.
16:13:21 <bknudson> I think with big tent you can just put it in openstack/
16:13:50 <dims> bknudson: right, i am guessing markus_z is looking for collaborators and reviewers
16:13:58 <harlowja_at_home> so maybe goes like this, personal github (poc, prototype, initial work) ---> openstack/bugreport (or if that gets much resistance oslo.bugreport?)
16:14:06 <bknudson> it's got a gerrit repo so you can still collaborate and review
16:14:28 <harlowja_at_home> i'll review pull requests on github if needed, lol
16:14:32 <dims> bknudson: another question is make it oslo, would it help speed it up?
16:14:37 <bknudson> I like harlowja's suggestion.
16:14:43 <bknudson> I think it would be slower to put it in oslo
16:14:52 <dims> ack
16:15:01 <bknudson> if it's in your own repo you can follow your own rules
16:15:09 <markus_z> muahahahaaa (so much power)
16:15:13 <markus_z> :)
16:15:14 <dims> markus_z: haha
16:15:46 * harlowja_at_home has no problem reviewing any PR that u want as u want, and then when its somewhere u want it to be, move into openstack?
16:16:04 <dims> markus_z: let's ping dhellmann as well later on oslo channel and it looks like consensus is that a prototype would help and big tent may be the next step after that
16:16:06 <markus_z> ok, harlowja's approach sounds good. Own repo -> gather folks -> speed things up -> show poc -> potentially move to oslo    <= that ok?
16:16:06 <harlowja_at_home> i can help setup travis for u to
16:16:18 <harlowja_at_home> *travis setup isn't that hard
16:16:41 <harlowja_at_home> aka https://github.com/yahoo/Zake/blob/master/.travis.yml (or equivalent)
16:17:04 <dims> k switching topics
16:17:11 <dims> #topic oslo specs - pika and kafka drivers for oslo.messaging
16:17:12 <markus_z> harlowja_at_home: Jepp, I'll ping you when I have the repo ready.
16:17:18 <markus_z> harlowja_at_home: thanks
16:17:21 <harlowja_at_home> np
16:17:40 * harlowja_at_home did some reading on kafka this weekend
16:17:46 <dims> there's some reviews around kafka and some email thread and github repo for pika based driver
16:18:27 <harlowja_at_home> now that i understand kafka a little better, i can hopefully help there a little
16:18:32 <dims> anyone interested in that work?
16:18:42 <harlowja_at_home> pika, i'd really like the rabbitmq folks to look at (do they exist?)
16:18:43 <dims> harlowja_at_home: kafka the writer? :)
16:18:56 <harlowja_at_home> dims, oh crap, this kafka is not that kafka???
16:18:57 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:19:14 <dims> harlowja_at_home: y they come and go, need to make 'em stay :)
16:19:36 <harlowja_at_home> dims, maybe if we bake them cookies they will stay?
16:19:49 <dims> haha
16:20:01 * harlowja_at_home isn't volunteering though
16:20:15 <dims> so we'll end up with kafka, pika based rabbitmq driver, zmq new driver in M
16:20:30 <dims> harlowja_at_home: i'll try to get them engaged
16:20:37 <harlowja_at_home> that(s) alot of drivers :-P
16:20:59 <dims> k. last topic before open discussion
16:21:02 <dims> #topic summit request for sessions
16:21:02 <dims> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-oslo-summit-planning
16:21:10 <dims> Anyone have any more ideas?
16:21:39 <bknudson> how many slots?
16:21:46 <dims> bknudson: don't know yet
16:21:49 <harlowja_at_home> some kind of survey results might help here
16:22:12 <harlowja_at_home> if people are able to tell us 'things theyd like to see in oslo' in that survey, we can include that :-P
16:22:27 <harlowja_at_home> or 'things they don't like about oslo'
16:22:28 <harlowja_at_home> or whatever
16:22:32 <bknudson> better docs
16:22:40 <harlowja_at_home> 88 commits man!
16:22:41 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:22:43 <dims> harlowja_at_home: ack, let's do the questionnaire this week
16:22:52 <harlowja_at_home> but yes we need 88 more
16:22:55 <bknudson> needs about 200 more commits
16:22:58 <harlowja_at_home> agreed
16:23:01 <dims> ++
16:23:16 <dims> #topic Open discussion
16:23:23 <harlowja_at_home> doc day could be friday :-P
16:23:26 <dims> that's all i have for topics
16:23:31 <harlowja_at_home> every friday
16:23:34 <harlowja_at_home> or something
16:24:03 <harlowja_at_home> or every other friday
16:24:16 <harlowja_at_home> then 200 will become 150 -> 100 ...
16:24:21 * dhellmann arrives late
16:24:25 <dims> we can try first friday of the month?
16:24:25 <rockyg> hey, I want to thank dhellmann and bknudson for their work on the oslo.log docs!
16:24:35 <harlowja_at_home> dims, i'd be ok with that
16:24:54 <harlowja_at_home> working at it over time is how taskflow docs became what they are
16:25:16 <bknudson> rockyg: we made some of the easy improvements, but I assume you had some more ideas.
16:25:19 <harlowja_at_home> just takes that continually beating the docs until they are better
16:25:32 <harlowja_at_home> beating/improving, lol
16:26:02 <dhellmann> dims, markus_z : the bug reporting tool sounds like it might be useful, but I'm not sure it fits the oslo mission. I like the idea of starting it on its own, or even talking to the qa team about hosting it, but there's no reason it needs a home in an existing team
16:26:39 <dims> dhellmann: i agree
16:26:44 <harlowja_at_home> and it needs to be named a cool name, like 'bugz' lol
16:27:08 <dhellmann> harlowja_at_home: borax?
16:27:13 <harlowja_at_home> hmmmm
16:27:30 <markus_z> dhellmann: OK, I'll do that and keep the folks on the ML in the loop.
16:27:43 <dims> "sodium borate, sodium tetraborate, or disodium tetraborate" :)
16:28:07 <dhellmann> "It is also an active ingredient in indoor and outdoor ant baits and killers and used for killing cockroaches" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax
16:28:24 <harlowja_at_home> also a laundry booster?
16:28:24 <harlowja_at_home> http://www.stacymakescents.com/wp-content/uploads/borax.jpg
16:28:31 <harlowja_at_home> 20 mule team???
16:28:38 <harlowja_at_home> til
16:28:47 <dims> we used to to play carrom board - https://www.google.com/search?q=carrom+board&es_sm=91&biw=1764&bih=966&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIgsyhg5OayAIVB2seCh08igJC
16:28:49 <dhellmann> anyway, names are up to markus_z :-)
16:29:07 <dims> we are going way into the weeds
16:29:11 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:29:12 <markus_z> :)
16:29:20 <dhellmann> rockyg, bknudson : ++ to pulling together a list of other things it would be useful to add to the logging docs
16:29:55 <dims> rockyg: dhellmann: use launchpad to log things that we need worked on
16:30:19 <dhellmann> dims: ++
16:30:48 <dims> dhellmann: did you see the discussion about a questionnaire?
16:31:12 <rockyg> for logging, I think the most useful thing would be its own chapter in the docs that talks about setup and how to override configs project by project.  Then pull all the logging sections out of the indvidual project config sections
16:31:23 <harlowja_at_home> something like http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075628.html (but more oslo focused)
16:32:43 <dhellmann> dims, harlowja_at_home : a questionnaire could be useful, if we ask the right questions. We need to make sure they aren't *too* open ended.
16:33:10 <harlowja_at_home> agreed
16:33:13 <dims> dhellmann: harlowja_at_home: what's our audience? other openstack-developers?
16:33:15 <dhellmann> rockyg: it sounds like you're talking about something the documentation team would need to do, since we don't own the manuals
16:33:32 <dhellmann> dims: it depends on what we want to know
16:33:42 <rockyg> dhellmann, yup.  docs meeting/irc.  Next stop!
16:34:21 <dhellmann> there was some discussion about the UX survey possibly overloading the survey space for users, and we should be careful about that. If we want to talk to users, we can get the user committee to add some questions to their survey for us
16:34:22 <harlowja_at_home> i was thinking dev, get feedback on possibly what new libraries/common code that is out there that needs centralizing, what things people do/don't like about oslo, and/or other idears
16:34:26 <dims> dhellmann: harlowja_at_home was hinting that we could use it to plan work for M
16:34:29 <dhellmann> if we want to talk to devs, we can just do that ourselves
16:35:21 <dhellmann> harlowja_at_home: I like the idea of looking for more code to pull into libraries. Our liaisons ought to be able to help with that, too.
16:35:31 <harlowja_at_home> something like if oslo.config was connected into zookeeper/etcd/consul, would that be interesting for folks though could be an operator question
16:35:50 <bknudson> I've got a qq if I can find the code...
16:36:30 <bknudson> not too long ago we go a change to keystone to use entrypoints for paste filters -- http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/etc/keystone-paste.ini#n6
16:36:45 <bknudson> for some reason the oslo.middleware entrypoints are defined in keystone.
16:36:59 <dhellmann> probably from when those were in the incubator?
16:37:06 <bknudson> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/setup.cfg#n178
16:37:16 <bknudson> request_id = oslo_middleware:RequestId.factory
16:37:19 <dhellmann> changing a paste configuration file takes 2 cycles, because it's a config file and grenade barfs if the old version doesn't work
16:37:30 <bknudson> actually, that's the only one.
16:37:59 <harlowja_at_home> dims, i'll start an etherpad with potential survey ideas when i get into work
16:38:12 <harlowja_at_home> then i guess we can 'brainstorm' on there or whatever
16:38:19 <dhellmann> harlowja_at_home: ++
16:38:22 <dims> ack
16:38:25 <bknudson> what do you think about defining the entrypoints in oslo.middleware? http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/setup.cfg#n178
16:38:52 <dhellmann> bknudson: we should do that, I think any that are missing are a bug
16:39:04 <bknudson> file a bug?
16:39:05 <dims> bknudson: ++
16:39:13 <dhellmann> bknudson: the patch would be quicker
16:39:24 <bknudson> I might not have time to work on it for a while
16:39:30 <dhellmann> bknudson: ok, at least a bug
16:39:49 <dhellmann> we'll need to add the entry to middleware this cycle, then next cycle keystone can change it's paste file
16:40:15 <dhellmann> actually, I think keystone can change its paste file this cycle it just can't remove the entry in its setup.cfg
16:40:27 <harlowja_at_home> *also survey probably shouldn't be via google surveys (as it appears the ceilometer one is); think google is banned in china :-/
16:40:34 <bknudson> we'll have to mention it in the release notes
16:40:46 <dhellmann> hmm, bknudson, now that I think of it I don't know what paste will do if it finds 2 entries with the same name
16:40:47 <rockyg> no google in China.
16:40:50 <dhellmann> this might take more thought
16:40:59 <rockyg> surveymonkey in china, I think
16:41:06 <harlowja_at_home> rockyg, cool, good to know
16:41:33 <harlowja_at_home> probably a few thousand similar survey tools in the interwbs, lol
16:43:09 <dims> k. let's wrap it up :)
16:43:12 <dims> thanks everyone
16:43:18 <dims> #endmeeting