16:00:07 <harlowja_at_home> #startmeeting oslo
16:00:08 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Jun 20 16:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is harlowja_at_home. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:10 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:12 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'oslo'
16:00:12 <harlowja_at_home> hola
16:00:33 <harlowja_at_home> courtesy ping for amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dims
16:00:33 <harlowja_at_home> courtesy ping for dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, gcb, GheRivero, haypo
16:00:34 <harlowja_at_home> courtesy ping for ihrachyshka, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz
16:00:34 <harlowja_at_home> courtesy ping for lifeless, lintan, lxsli, Nakato, ozamiatin, rbradfor, redrobot
16:00:34 <harlowja_at_home> courtesy ping for rpodolyaka, sergmelikyan, sileht, spamaps, sreshetnyak, sreshetnyak, stevemar
16:00:35 <harlowja_at_home> courtesy ping for therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek
16:00:36 <kgiusti> hullo!
16:00:41 <harlowja_at_home> let's see anyone around today :-P
16:00:44 <harlowja_at_home> or is everyone on vacation, lol
16:01:02 <rbradfor_> o/ o/
16:01:09 <harlowja_at_home> yo yo
16:01:12 <ihrachys> o/
16:01:41 <rbradfor_> harlowja_at_home, my IRC didn't alert me, seems and IRC disconnect has me on an alternative nic?
16:01:47 <harlowja_at_home> hmmmm
16:01:48 <harlowja_at_home> evil irc
16:02:02 <harlowja_at_home> i forgive u this time, lol
16:02:07 <rbradfor> I'd say unreliable network but ...
16:02:14 <harlowja_at_home> :-P
16:02:17 <harlowja_at_home> #topic Red flags for/from liaisons
16:02:22 <ihrachys> nothing from neutron side
16:02:27 <jungleboyj> o/
16:02:29 <harlowja_at_home> #link http://status.openstack.org/openstack-health/#/?groupKey=build_name&resolutionKey=hour&searchProject=-with-oslo
16:02:35 <jungleboyj> Nothing from Cinder that I am aware of.
16:02:35 <harlowja_at_home> seems ok from that above link
16:02:57 <harlowja_at_home> cool
16:03:23 <harlowja_at_home> guess everyone else on vacation, lol
16:04:45 <harlowja_at_home> #topic Releases for newton
16:05:25 <harlowja_at_home> i'll get a release bundle out in a little bit/later today so feel free to yell at me if u want me to add/remove a release from that
16:06:32 <harlowja_at_home> #topic Architecture working group
16:06:47 <harlowja_at_home> since it did mention oslo, i'm just gonna mention it here as well :-P
16:06:53 <harlowja_at_home> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/097668.html
16:07:06 <harlowja_at_home> tbd what that will end up being, but thought folks here might be interested
16:07:24 <jd__> aka the wishful thinking group
16:07:25 <rbradfor> harlowja_at_home, I did read this email from Spamaps
16:07:31 <harlowja_at_home> jd__, lol
16:07:34 <harlowja_at_home> jd__, welcome, who are u
16:07:35 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:08:18 <harlowja_at_home> rbradfor, ya, i'm not sure what it will be yet, but meh, can't hurt to see where it goes
16:08:34 <rbradfor> harlowja_at_home, OpenStack lacks arctitecture direction, and Oslo should be a least aware of what is discussed.  I for one will be following the group.
16:08:47 <harlowja_at_home> yup
16:09:21 <harlowja_at_home> #topic Time isoformat()
16:09:29 <harlowja_at_home> jd__, while i have u, amrith are u around ;)
16:09:32 <amrith> yes
16:09:42 <amrith> I am a very big around, my dr. tells me
16:09:51 <harlowja_at_home> amrith, where we at with that isotime adjustments
16:10:06 <amrith> I've incorporated all of the comments I've got
16:10:09 <harlowja_at_home> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/329384/
16:10:16 <amrith> primarily from bknudson_
16:10:18 <harlowja_at_home> jd__,  i know u are gonna be like 'no way'
16:10:24 <harlowja_at_home> but wondering if we can compromise
16:10:52 <amrith> I don't believe jd__ responded to my question
16:11:11 <harlowja_at_home> right
16:11:26 <harlowja_at_home> gonna see if we can get him while hes here ;) (not entrapment)
16:11:27 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:12:16 <amrith> so ... I'm waiting for confirmation from bknudson_ that this works for him
16:12:21 <amrith> and would also like to close the loop with dims
16:12:24 <harlowja_at_home> amrith, kk
16:12:29 <harlowja_at_home> i'll fly to paris to find jd__
16:12:30 <amrith> the last time we were talking about this, dims was on the #tc meeting
16:12:30 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:12:31 <jd__> I gave my opinion, that's all :)
16:12:38 <jd__> it's just _my_ opinion :)
16:12:49 <harlowja_at_home> noooooooo its _the_ opinion
16:12:53 <jd__> if nobody shares it, do whatever you like, or follow me :)
16:12:58 <jd__> harlowja_at_home: ah then it's not only me :-)
16:13:01 <harlowja_at_home> ha
16:14:23 <amrith> so, where do we go from here?
16:14:49 <harlowja_at_home> amrith, i guess bknudson_ needs to double check it over
16:15:50 <harlowja_at_home> i'd like to be able to maybe send a ML email to the projects that have copied timeutils code, and if those folks will look over this code and say 'yes we'll use that' then I think that's a big 'ok from me, even if its not the ideal solution' path (life is compromises after all)
16:16:02 <harlowja_at_home> amrith, u did some research into who has copied that right
16:16:15 <amrith> "Where do we go from here now that all of the children have grown up
16:16:15 <amrith> And how do we spend our time knowin' nobody gives us a damn" - Alan Parsons Project (not part of the big tent)
16:16:25 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:16:45 <harlowja_at_home> i don't ever wanna grow up
16:17:11 * kgiusti gave up on that long ago....
16:17:23 <amrith> ok, we'll wait for bknudson_
16:17:33 <harlowja_at_home> k
16:17:40 <amrith> are we there yet?
16:17:45 <amrith> bknudson_, are we there yet?
16:18:04 <harlowja_at_home> i'll form a little email to the dev list, so that others that have copied this can look it over
16:18:13 <harlowja_at_home> (or copied the old version or whatever)
16:18:36 <amrith> harlowja_at_home, my earlier email listed those projects
16:18:42 <amrith> may save you the time having to go find them
16:18:44 <harlowja_at_home> kk, i'll find that email then :-P
16:19:30 <amrith> http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/xosf5h7gvhqdwtz7
16:19:35 <harlowja_at_home> thx
16:19:40 <dims> amrith : harlowja_at_home : i have the same opinion as jd__ and am ok if everyone wants to get it in
16:20:43 <amrith> dims, I know that was the case. But does the fact that several projects have just copied the code as it was mean that it makes sense for oslo to reconsider?
16:20:45 <harlowja_at_home> dims, yup, if there is enough agreement that projects copying it would move to it, then i'm gonna lean on the 'its ok, its not perfect, but if it helps have less variation in all the projects, then thats ok'
16:21:20 <harlowja_at_home> we can save up the 'major disagreement' stuff for bigger things IMHO :-P
16:21:33 <amrith> ah, ok
16:21:35 <harlowja_at_home> like, the architecture working group, lol
16:22:07 <amrith> yes, as one of my former managers said to me "take your little problems away and come back to me when they are big problems"
16:22:15 <harlowja_at_home> ya
16:22:18 <dims> amrith : my main thing here was folks are using it in API w/o realizing the problems. if we add it here, they will continue to do so and i did not want us to be part of that loop
16:22:35 <amrith> dims, that's not the current proposal
16:22:44 <amrith> the current proposal is NOT to undeprecate the old function
16:22:52 <amrith> but to propose a new one that doens't have those problems
16:23:01 <amrith> isotime will be deprecated
16:23:05 <amrith> a new function is being added
16:23:12 <amrith> that wraps isoformat()
16:23:28 <amrith> and provides an iso compatible output that projects can use without changing their API's.
16:23:39 <harlowja_at_home> an idea, should we call this isoformat2 ?
16:23:48 <amrith> it is called isoformat()
16:23:48 <harlowja_at_home> and leave the old one as is
16:23:53 <amrith> timeutils.isoformat()
16:23:59 <amrith> as opposed to datetime.datetime.isoformat()
16:24:56 <amrith> ah, i see. dims commented on patch set 1.
16:24:59 <amrith> this is now patch set 2
16:25:00 <amrith> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/329384/2
16:25:47 <rbradfor> the deprecated function was timeutils.isotime()
16:26:07 <amrith> yes rbradfor
16:26:12 <harlowja_at_home> ah
16:26:13 <harlowja_at_home> kk
16:26:29 <harlowja_at_home> thx
16:27:25 <harlowja_at_home> ok, let's continue chugging away at that one, seems like a few tiny loose ends to close
16:27:43 <harlowja_at_home> #topic Stuck reviews and/or specs and/or code
16:27:59 <harlowja_at_home> any reviews people want to bring up (besides the isoformat one)
16:28:19 <harlowja_at_home> bring your reviews, 10 for 1$
16:28:19 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:28:33 <kgiusti> who wants to be an AMQP 1.0 guru?
16:28:44 <harlowja_at_home> u?
16:28:45 <kgiusti> <crickets>
16:28:45 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:28:58 <harlowja_at_home> i'd like to learn more about it :)
16:29:05 <harlowja_at_home> but i'm not sure if that's guru-level
16:29:16 <kgiusti> You can be like me and fake it!
16:29:16 <harlowja_at_home> mild-guru
16:29:19 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:29:35 <harlowja_at_home> i'll take 1 mild-guru and a diet coke
16:29:42 <amrith> sorry, I had to go schedule a root canal
16:29:49 <amrith> which starts in 2m :)
16:29:52 <harlowja_at_home> :-/
16:30:03 <rbradfor> harlowja_at_home, I would vote for somebody that is a messaging guru giving some beginner tutorial (hangout) about how messaging works (i.e. the guts) and then how AMQP,0MQ and others impact that usage
16:30:13 <harlowja_at_home> ya me too
16:30:13 <kgiusti> root canaling - is much more fun...
16:30:25 <harlowja_at_home> rbradfor, agreed
16:30:30 <harlowja_at_home> wonder if we can find such a person
16:30:41 <rbradfor> amrith, just go tom hanks castaway that tooth.
16:30:41 <kgiusti> I'm writing up a doc describing the amqp 1.0 driver design FWIT
16:30:45 <bknudson_> just took a quick look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/329384/3/oslo_utils/timeutils.py -- I like the changes since they're backwards compatible.
16:31:04 <harlowja_at_home> kgiusti, nice
16:31:11 <amrith> thx bknudson_
16:31:13 <kgiusti> but I'm a non guru zmq-wise
16:31:24 <harlowja_at_home> 1/4 guru?
16:31:25 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:31:46 <dims> amrith : does not help with my issue. All REST API should be 'Z' prefixed and should only have UTC time
16:32:25 <amrith> dims, why is that?
16:32:33 <amrith> or should we take this up at a later meeting/offline
16:32:37 <rbradfor> other then knowing messaging (and hence rabbitMQ) is critical for project communication it would be good for more Oslo people (well ok, just me then) to appreciate it's importance with intermediate skills?
16:32:49 <amrith> offline ~ on another line
16:32:53 <harlowja_at_home> rbradfor, +1
16:33:18 <dims> amrith : http://markmail.org/message/elxv2l4xhrksvpse
16:33:21 <harlowja_at_home> maybe we can have a tiny session/hangout with sileht, the zeromq guy (i forget his name), and kgiusti
16:33:24 <kgiusti> hey I can blabber on about amqp 1.0 for hours - if you're into root canals and such...
16:33:46 <amrith> dims, yes, I've read that email but I'm not sure it is complete
16:33:49 <amrith> longer discussion I guess
16:33:49 <harlowja_at_home> i'm all about the root canals
16:34:07 <kgiusti> "don't stop now"  -- little shop of horror ref
16:34:19 <bknudson_> amrith: keystone will have to ensure that "at" parameters are tagged as UTC? (Not sure how to do that)
16:34:37 <bknudson_> maybe they will be already somehow... I think they mostly come from a DB query.
16:34:55 <kgiusti> we'll get the arch doc done and then if people are interested in a hangout let me know....
16:35:09 <bknudson_> (I've looked at the python docs and for some reason it's not obvious how to get a UTC timzone)
16:35:27 <harlowja_at_home> kgiusti, cool, i think rbradfor and i at least would be :)
16:35:30 <harlowja_at_home> we like root canals, lol
16:35:55 <bknudson_> there will be laughing gas
16:35:55 <kgiusti> harlowja_at_home: I'm only into the laughing gas, myself.
16:35:58 <rbradfor> harlowja_at_home, hey, was there a poll for you to license "we", I don't
16:36:00 <bknudson_> he he
16:36:09 <harlowja_at_home> rbradfor, ha
16:36:18 <harlowja_at_home> ya, that pool was earlier
16:36:20 <harlowja_at_home> *poll
16:36:28 <harlowja_at_home> poll of 1
16:36:45 <rbradfor> dictators are not welcome here :)
16:36:54 <harlowja_at_home> :-P
16:36:58 <kgiusti> rbradfor: not interested in wading thru https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320492/
16:37:31 <kgiusti> rbradfor: it will put hair on your chest - which is good because you'll pull out everything on your head...
16:37:53 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:38:20 <rbradfor> kgiusti, I don't need any accelerated hair loss ideas
16:38:48 <kgiusti> rbradfor: I've got plenty extra if you need some...
16:38:55 <dims> amrith : scars from  web services wars (R3217 - http://www.ws-i.org/profiles/basicsecurityprofile-1.0.html)
16:39:09 <harlowja_at_home> u guys are giving out chest hair? or hair loss ideas
16:39:12 <harlowja_at_home> idk anymore, lol
16:39:39 <harlowja_at_home> #topic Open discussion
16:39:49 <kgiusti> harlowja_at_home: rbradfor: but seriously - I'd like to land these patches on the feature branch at least....
16:40:07 <harlowja_at_home> kgiusti, agreed, i'm gonna try to get through some of them this week, i swear
16:40:19 <kgiusti> Some folks from the massive distributed WG are interested in trying out the new routing feature.
16:40:24 <harlowja_at_home> https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/oslo.messaging+branch:feature/amqp-dispatch-router right?
16:41:09 <kgiusti> harlowja_at_home: ya - and I have one more (last hopefully) large patch to follow.
16:41:14 <harlowja_at_home> k
16:42:14 <kgiusti> harlowja_at_home: thank you!!!
16:42:20 <harlowja_at_home> np :)
16:43:03 <harlowja_at_home> dims, ' Davanum Srinivas (Computer Associates)' nice nice, u in the appendix C
16:43:19 <harlowja_at_home> (of that web service thing)
16:43:24 <dims> deep scars :)
16:43:31 <harlowja_at_home> cleaned it up with soap i hope
16:43:32 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:43:37 <harlowja_at_home> (the wound/scar)
16:43:43 <dims> :)
16:44:20 <harlowja_at_home> ok, anything else people want to bring up?
16:44:27 <harlowja_at_home> else, u all get a few minutes back!
16:44:28 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:44:36 <harlowja_at_home> (and u can go read that nice SOAP document)
16:44:36 <harlowja_at_home> lol
16:44:40 <rbradfor> distracted  by DockerCon live sessions right now.
16:44:48 <harlowja_at_home> ah
16:44:53 * harlowja_at_home i should watch those to
16:45:44 <rbradfor> Great slide a few mins ago.  The best tools... 1. Get out of the way.  2. adapt to you.  3. make the powerful simple.  I wonder if other projects should assess this.
16:46:09 <bknudson_> that's the definition of openstack.
16:46:10 <bknudson_> he he
16:46:58 <harlowja_at_home> 4. be written in go, ha
16:47:17 <harlowja_at_home> alright, andddd with that, ---> #openstack-oslo i guess for further fun commentary
16:47:26 <harlowja_at_home> thanks for showing up folks :)
16:47:36 <harlowja_at_home> #endmeeting