14:01:28 <tobberydberg> #startmeeting publiccloud_wg
14:01:29 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Jun 21 14:01:28 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tobberydberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:31 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01:33 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'publiccloud_wg'
14:01:46 <tobberydberg> Nice to see you here aprice
14:01:58 <aprice> :)
14:02:15 <tobberydberg> Some more here for todays meeting?
14:02:22 <aprice> danny and chris from the foundation are also planning to join so we can talk more about the powered program like we discussed from the previous meeting
14:03:24 <tobberydberg> cool :)
14:03:39 <tobberydberg> Kets wait a couple of minutes then =)
14:06:48 <hogepodge> hi
14:07:00 <tobberydberg> welcome hogepodge
14:10:17 <aprice> with hogepodge and Danny_ here, one of the things I wanted to make sure we covered today was the powered program feedback that was raised in the last meeting
14:10:26 <aprice> when we were discussing using that as a requirement for passport
14:11:49 <tobberydberg> Yes, absolutely
14:11:50 <hogepodge> It's my understanding that there were concerns about the program, and the ability of clouds to meet the defined standard?
14:12:11 <tobberydberg> Lets kick off the meeting here and see who is joining
14:12:42 <tobberydberg> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg
14:12:47 <tobberydberg> Please add your name there
14:12:50 <mnaser> i am here
14:13:04 <tobberydberg> Nice to see you here mnaser
14:13:18 <mnaser> :)
14:13:27 <Danny_> hello everyone!
14:13:54 <tobberydberg> The plan for today - get some feedback of the "initial draft spec" of the PP v2
14:14:20 <tobberydberg> That includes your topic aprice, Danny_ and hogepodge
14:14:38 <tobberydberg> #link spec draft: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PCWG-pp-spec-draft
14:15:21 <tobberydberg> Just to give you all a little overview of the thinking around this
14:16:29 <tobberydberg> Would like to summarize the PP in a spec - will become to big probably, so will use this as parent and refer to more detailed specs as for example the technical solution for the coupon codes system etc
14:16:55 <mnaser> me likes #3 in selection criteria.  #2 i feel like is too specific.. some vendors depending on their pricing model, $100 might mean nothing vs others
14:16:57 <tobberydberg> So, open for any feedback to the format, way of thinking, content etc etc
14:17:23 <mnaser> i *think* if we scope it out to be similar to aws free tier which is like "ability to at least run <x> type of vm or equivilant" or something like that.
14:17:52 <tobberydberg> Good, I like all feedback - need to get the discussions going to come to some conclusion
14:18:07 <mnaser> and my other last comment is selection criteria for the *password applicants* .. is that up to the provider to decide
14:18:08 <tobberydberg> so, add +1's and -1's to what ever is in the spec
14:18:13 <mnaser> ogood idea
14:18:47 <tobberydberg> like that idea o the "free tier" thinking as well
14:19:41 <mnaser> yah i put up my feedback
14:19:54 <mnaser> but i think it's important for us to know that who gets to hand out those unique coupons
14:20:41 <tobberydberg> agree
14:21:41 <tobberydberg> Please all, put your name in the top if possible in this etherpad as well ... easier to reach out and get clarification of feedback if necessary
14:22:51 <mnaser> i wanted to throw out an idea here before writing it out
14:23:08 <mnaser> how do we feel about handing the foundation a whole bunch of credentials that are tied into billing accounts ready with certain funding
14:23:25 <mnaser> and then the 'sign up' / 'get started' process is instead point and click directly from the openstack website
14:23:34 <mnaser> and you get handed over credentials right away and it gets marked as 'used'
14:24:38 <tobberydberg> by credentials you mean the "coupon codes" ?
14:24:51 <mnaser> no, like actual pre-provisioned accounts
14:25:01 <tobberydberg> aha
14:25:22 <mnaser> like you just get keystone credentials and we get an email from openstack saying "this tenant, this is the user info"
14:25:22 <tobberydberg> I guess that depends on the usage of them
14:25:29 <mnaser> i mean that's the big question mark ere
14:25:31 <mnaser> here**
14:25:40 <mnaser> who hands them out and where.. that's my concern
14:25:58 <mnaser> especially that with coupons, there is no 'prescreening' so to tspeak
14:26:09 <tobberydberg> Haven't thought of it like that earlier
14:26:17 <mnaser> there was some talks about using them as 'motivation' to make people come to meet ups.
14:26:23 <mnaser> everytime you come, you get a coupon
14:26:29 <tobberydberg> with the codes, you can still have your screening
14:26:31 <mnaser> i'm personally not comfortable with that sort of thing
14:26:40 <tobberydberg> with pre-created accounts, you can't
14:26:56 <mnaser> i thought the whole idea behind coupons is instant setup
14:27:21 <tobberydberg> no, that isn't at all how I've seen it
14:28:34 <mnaser> maybe an imagined workflow should be put up in that case
14:28:34 <mnaser> ;)
14:28:37 <tobberydberg> I've seen it as the codes we (citycloud) and OVH has ... like a X digit unique code, that gives you like a $xxx rebate/free usage ... but you still need to pass each members screening process
14:29:27 <aprice> Maybe this could be how we pull in the user groups?
14:29:40 <tobberydberg> Yes, agree with you when it comes to the "imagined workflow" ... like the PP use cases Flanders came up with for the PP release
14:29:54 <mnaser> that's reasonable.  so how is that different than filling out a form
14:30:01 <mnaser> that goes to a human which processes it
14:31:05 <mnaser> aprice: not sure what you mean by pulling in user groups
14:31:43 <aprice> As far as people to try the coupon method
14:32:15 <tobberydberg> Bigger marketing value to be able to hand out "$100 worth of OpenStack", then sending people to o.o/passport and then signup for a trial, gives more flexibility when it comes to values etc etc
14:33:52 <mnaser> aprice: oh yes
14:34:44 <mnaser> tobberydberg: sure, sounds good to me
14:35:01 <mnaser> so here is a technical concern :)
14:35:04 <tobberydberg> It's ok to not like that approach as well =)
14:35:39 <mnaser> if you get a code, you use it at some_cloud, it gets marked as as used.  some_cloud decides they don't want to give you the credit for $reasons
14:35:48 <mnaser> now you are stuck with an unusable code
14:36:09 <tobberydberg> Yes, "Passport coupon codes" section in spec is supposed to gather the use case/scenarios, tech requirements for that .... Then we choose technical implementation
14:36:39 <mnaser> noooow the other way around is: you get the code and some_cloud does not mark it as used until they activate it, well you can do rounds on all providers, hehe :)
14:36:43 <mnaser> anyways, might be getting ahead of ourselves
14:36:53 <mnaser> it seems to be okay with me at this state
14:37:07 <tobberydberg> good point ... but, we still need to trust the members of the program that they behave well
14:37:27 <zhipeng> mnaser that is actually why we had this blockchain experiment :)
14:37:37 <zhipeng> to tackle exactly the issue you just mentioned
14:37:44 <mnaser> tobberydberg: that's a given.
14:37:53 <mnaser> zhipeng: i am *all* for that, if you find someone to implement it :)
14:38:12 <zhipeng> yep :)
14:39:17 <zhipeng> back to tobias :)
14:39:22 <tobberydberg> Good feedback, a things that need to be tackled
14:39:47 <tobberydberg> so ... powered/interop
14:40:14 <tobberydberg> aprice ... did you have something specific there that you want to start with?
14:42:37 <hogepodge> We were thinking that being a powered cloud should be a condition to participate in the powered program
14:42:39 <tobberydberg> in the meantime I start by saying that I added "InterOp Powered Standards" as a filtering option for the PP homepage
14:42:58 <tobberydberg> you mean passport program hogepodge?
14:43:02 <aprice> Passport program
14:43:04 <hogepodge> The aim of program is to guarantee interoperability and API conformance for end users.
14:43:04 <aprice> Yeah
14:43:11 <hogepodge> yes, passport
14:43:28 <tobberydberg> yes, I agree and I like that thought for exactly that reason
14:43:38 <mnaser> is it powered compute or powered platform we're talking about
14:43:49 <tobberydberg> I would say compute
14:43:49 <hogepodge> Compute.
14:43:56 <tobberydberg> ++
14:44:05 <hogepodge> Swift isn't deployed widely enough to require it.
14:44:22 <mnaser> that seems reasonable enough
14:44:28 <tobberydberg> so, only concern ... who is not today among the members?
14:44:36 <tobberydberg> 1,3 or more then 5?
14:45:07 <hogepodge> I don't have those numbers. I could work them up.
14:45:14 <tobberydberg> The mentioned concern have been the "Foundation sponsor" thing
14:45:19 <Danny_> one of the concerns raised in Vancouver was to become "openstack powered" one had to become a corporate sponsor of the foundation
14:45:20 <Danny_> yes
14:45:37 <Danny_> which we're willing to discuss on a 1:1 basis
14:46:05 <tobberydberg> if all of todays 10 clouds are, then is not an issue basically ... if not, can be hard for some smaller players?
14:46:10 <tobberydberg> ok
14:46:33 <mnaser> so: if you're part (or willing to be part) of the passport program, you must be openstack compute powered, if you're not (then run it and become one), if you are not a corporate sponsor, talk to the foundation and they'll sort you out
14:47:07 <mnaser> does that seem like a reasonable idea of what we're talking about?
14:47:17 <tobberydberg> Sounds just like that
14:47:30 <hogepodge> yes
14:47:54 <Danny_> yes
14:48:02 <tobberydberg> the only thing to state in the reqs is that "if you are not willing to sponsor, call us and Danny will by you a dinner and then we are all good" ;-)
14:48:17 <tobberydberg> *buy
14:48:22 <Danny_> dinner AND drinks : )
14:48:26 <tobberydberg> hahaha
14:48:38 <tobberydberg> but I'm fine with that
14:49:38 <tobberydberg> I guess that is more of a foundation issue telling some partners that today only are sponsors because of getting the powereed stamp why they should pay up
14:49:58 <tobberydberg> I add that to the requirement section in the draft as well
14:50:59 <Danny_> keep in mind that powered products (who are also foundation sponsors) are also listed in the public cloud marketplace
14:50:59 <Danny_> https://www.openstack.org/marketplace/public-clouds/
14:51:45 <tobberydberg> "6) They must be accepted for the OpenStack Powered Compute (or platform) - this to guarantee interoperability and API conformance for end users"
14:52:05 <tobberydberg> yes, I know =)
14:52:27 <tobberydberg> Just a couple of minutes left ... what else?
14:54:04 <tobberydberg> I will try to have a more "final draft" ready by the meeting in 2 weeks, might reach out to you before that to vet ideas
14:54:30 <aprice> tobberydberg: feel free to ping me and I can work with you on it
14:54:31 <tobberydberg> Also, will post to the mailing list when we have something more final
14:54:40 <tobberydberg> awesome, thanks
14:55:47 <tobberydberg> Should we reach out more "direct" to the current members when we have somehting more final?
14:56:08 <mnaser> i think so
14:56:18 <mnaser> or maybe say "we're discussing the final details in the next wg meeting"
14:56:19 <tobberydberg> Even though they should know that these meetings and the mailinglist is the place to be to stay tunes and have a say in the discussions
14:56:22 <mnaser> "You should be there" :-)
14:56:33 <tobberydberg> exactly
14:56:33 <Danny_> that's a good idea
14:56:57 <tobberydberg> What gives the most, foundation reaching out and remember them of that?
14:57:13 <aprice> yeah, we can reach out and cc you and zhipeng since you run the WG
14:57:31 <aprice> can also remind them of the PTG - yall are planning to meet there right?
14:57:34 <tobberydberg> Sounds perfect
14:57:42 <tobberydberg> yes
14:58:05 <tobberydberg> As it looks right now I have clearance to go there, so that is my plan
14:58:15 <aprice> awesome!
14:58:31 * mnaser has booked the day the PTG was announced
14:58:37 <mnaser> little do you know travel is so cheap when you do it so far out
14:58:39 <tobberydberg> hahaha
14:58:44 <aprice> nice!
14:58:55 <aprice> you're an event planner's dream
14:59:06 <Danny_> hahaha
14:59:08 <mnaser> 💅
14:59:17 <tobberydberg> I have the ticket, but no flight and no hotel room
14:59:26 <mnaser> except no cheap leftover hotel rooms for me
14:59:27 <mnaser> :P
14:59:40 <tobberydberg> are they all sold out?
14:59:50 <tobberydberg> I mean at the official hotel
14:59:57 <aprice> it is not
15:00:02 <mnaser> i dont know but i menat like how usually at summits 2 weeks before
15:00:07 <tobberydberg> phu
15:00:19 <mnaser> the foundation throws out those "We reserved too many rooms so grab em ultra cheap" :p
15:00:19 <aprice> kendall waters who runs ptg on our team says there are plenty of rooms right now
15:00:40 <tobberydberg> great! Will try to get that sorted next week
15:00:53 <aprice> perfect!
15:01:14 <mnaser> thanks everyone, off to to tc office hours :)
15:01:18 <tobberydberg> So, time is up for this week! Thanks a lot for your time today!
15:01:25 <Danny_> 👋
15:01:41 <tobberydberg> Talk to you all in 2 weeks if not before that!
15:01:53 <aprice> thanks everyone!
15:01:56 <tobberydberg> #endmeeting