07:04:30 <tobberydberg> #startmeeting publiccloud-wg
07:04:31 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Sep 19 07:04:30 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tobberydberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
07:04:32 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
07:04:34 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'publiccloud_wg'
07:05:23 <tobberydberg> Agenda at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg
07:05:38 <tobberydberg> Hi everyone! Who's around for todays meeting?
07:06:50 <adriant> o/
07:06:59 <tobberydberg> Hi adriant!
07:07:14 <adriant> long time no see!
07:07:41 <zhipeng_> problems with the irc nick...
07:07:43 <tobberydberg> For sure, too long!
07:07:53 <tobberydberg> Will you be in Berlin?
07:07:57 <zhipeng_> are we already in discussion ?
07:08:01 <adriant> I shall
07:08:34 <tobberydberg> Cool! Would be nice if we could plan for a "public cloud dinner"
07:08:34 <zhipeng_> hey adriant
07:08:46 <zhipeng_> ah that'd be wonderful
07:08:55 <tobberydberg> no zhipeng_ ... just socialising ;)
07:09:05 <adriant> bruno will also be in Berlin and would likely be happy to join
07:09:19 <tobberydberg> Sounds great!
07:09:30 <tobberydberg> Let s plan for that
07:10:20 <zhipeng_> shall we take a look at the etherpads ?
07:10:23 <tobberydberg> Ok. So, to todays agenda
07:11:21 <tobberydberg> #topic 1: PTG recap
07:11:30 <tobberydberg> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg-stein-ptg-summary
07:11:56 <zhipeng_> i think we had a really good session at Denver
07:12:47 <tobberydberg> yes
07:12:52 <zhipeng_> so per the long term goal for the missing features
07:13:04 <zhipeng_> my patch to the TC seems get the softball again ...
07:13:23 <zhipeng_> where Doug suggest to start with the current SIG/WG arrangment
07:13:51 <zhipeng_> I won't argue back and forth again, I think I could work with Lance, to start trying out disecting the goals
07:14:00 <tobberydberg> saw that ... will follow it, but they seam to fall back to the same arguments they had during TC meeting a little
07:14:09 <zhipeng_> yep
07:14:14 <adriant> what's the patch?
07:14:15 <zhipeng_> nostalgia folks....
07:14:30 <tobberydberg> There is also a new election out, so can be new people to approach as well
07:14:31 <zhipeng_> #link https://review.openstack.org/602799
07:14:36 <adriant> ty
07:15:03 <zhipeng_> i'm running, so would be great to have your votes :)
07:15:16 <tobberydberg> In general, we would like to have a place to drop cross project things that we have identified as issues from PCWG or any other SIG or WG
07:15:41 <tobberydberg> for example, it should be good to be able to delete all resources in a project
07:15:44 <adriant> which is important and useful.
07:15:48 <zhipeng_> adriant what we told tc is that, we have done our due diligence
07:15:59 <zhipeng_> please help coordinate the projects to work on that
07:16:14 <tobberydberg> maybe not doable over one cycle, but over multiple ... that is one part of the patch
07:16:16 <zhipeng_> to which the reply is basically, no lol
07:16:42 <adriant> honestly, a single API endpoint per service that is effectively: "purge this project id and it's resources" shouldn't be that bad...
07:16:56 <tobberydberg> exactly
07:17:10 <zhipeng_> adriant in genral tobias and I and also folks from UC discussed method to close the loop between development and usage
07:17:13 <tobberydberg> BUT ... do never bring the technical sulution, only the problem =)
07:17:20 <tobberydberg> But totally agree with you
07:17:32 <zhipeng_> have a quantifiable way to have missing feature implemented and show that to the user
07:17:50 <adriant> I'm currently working on having a terminate project API in Adjutant which just has an action per service, but having APIs which I can call instead of having to manually delete resources in my code would be amazing...
07:18:37 <tobberydberg> like something that you would expect any project to have from the beginning actually
07:18:51 <adriant> you'd think that :P
07:19:01 <tobberydberg> One suggestion during the TC meeting was also to identify one of the community goals to be "operator centric"
07:19:16 <tobberydberg> like "purge project" as an example
07:19:53 <tobberydberg> Either way, we will have to keep push here to get something formed around this
07:20:03 <zhipeng_> yep
07:20:16 <zhipeng_> anyways adriant would be great to have you guys provide a ranking for the items listed on the launchpad
07:21:21 <tobberydberg> I will work with Melvin in creating a storyboard board under UC where we add the top 3 items from our group and we take it from there
07:21:41 <adriant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-publiccloud-wg/+bug/1771586 < at least I should have done for Stein
07:21:42 <openstack> Launchpad bug 1771586 in OpenStack Public Cloud WG "Multi factor authentication support" [High,New]
07:22:10 <tobberydberg> Agree with zhipeng_ ... would be good! Think that we can arrange that during a meeting as well, where we try to reach out to all PCs to do that
07:22:36 <zhipeng_> adriant we could work with Lance on that re MFA
07:22:41 <tobberydberg> Talked with Colleen about that, heard that was going to happen!
07:22:45 <tobberydberg> Which is awesome
07:23:01 <adriant> zhipeng_: it's already all happening. The auth-receipts spec is mine
07:23:15 <zhipeng_> cool !
07:23:21 <adriant> and once that's finished and merged support to keystoneauth, openstackclient, and horizon will be next
07:23:56 <adriant> was targeted for rocky with work mostly done, but Lance was refactoring Keystone internals I needed and it was safer to let him finish
07:24:00 <tobberydberg> I guess openstackclient will be quick to pick that one up
07:24:43 <tobberydberg> Great great
07:25:03 <tobberydberg> We also talked about a few more things in Denver.. :-)
07:25:12 <adriant> one little thing I actually would love to see down the line is Keystone being able to be a fully-fledged idp with single-sign on support
07:25:24 <tobberydberg> heheh
07:25:45 <tobberydberg> yups, that is something that would be really really nice =)
07:26:16 <tobberydberg> I really hope that we get more time some time to spend doing those kind of things
07:27:37 <zhipeng_> yep
07:27:51 <zhipeng_> another topic we had is passport program v2
07:28:18 <tobberydberg> So ... to the rest ... Passport - take it back a step, ensure quality among the members, easy access for ed users with better filtering, and integration of openlab
07:28:30 <tobberydberg> you. are so ahead of me =)
07:28:48 <zhipeng_> and also we thought would be great to expand the concept to a broader theme of "make openstack easy to use"
07:28:49 <tobberydberg> Keep going howard =)
07:29:41 <zhipeng_> tobberydberg i think we need to find a time to talk with aprice or jimmy
07:29:59 <zhipeng_> about the pivoting we discussed
07:30:34 <zhipeng_> and also the MKT oriented meetings per month
07:31:39 <tobberydberg> yup
07:32:13 <tobberydberg> Get more people to vet their ideas around "market place booth" as well
07:32:48 <zhipeng_> anything you want to do adriant re passport ?
07:33:07 <adriant> It depends on how you want to do it.
07:33:27 <tobberydberg> "you" => "we" ;-)
07:33:40 <adriant> Our cloud now just offers $300 over 12 months (whichever runs out first)
07:34:07 <adriant> are we still just using the passport as a catalogue of member clouds
07:34:16 <tobberydberg> all members need to be more active around this
07:34:27 <tobberydberg> Basically yes
07:34:29 <adriant> or are we going to go down the route of issuing vouchers?
07:34:40 <tobberydberg> That was the plan
07:35:08 <tobberydberg> But, until Berlin we will take a step back regarding that and do another round of ideas vetting
07:35:43 <tobberydberg> To few members are active here and around the PP in general, we will need more folks help and commitment to pull that off
07:35:49 <adriant> Like, with our signup process, we give all users a default $300 for 12 months. but in future we'll be doing our own vouchers that give extra on top of the default.
07:35:50 <tobberydberg> That is at least my idea...
07:36:10 <tobberydberg> Yes, and I still like that idea
07:36:16 <adriant> and if some of those are openstack passport vouchers we validate in some external system, that's not too hard for us to add
07:36:22 <tobberydberg> (no metter the technical solution behind it)
07:36:43 <tobberydberg> Not for us either ... like a couple of extra api calls
07:37:25 <adriant> just gotta make that voucher API somewhere :P
07:37:29 <tobberydberg> Happy that you are coming to Berlin, so we can be more in the room to speak our minds regarding this
07:38:01 <tobberydberg> Yup, tech ideas do exists, can be briefed any time ... guess Berlin is a good plan for that
07:38:23 <adriant> me too, and... I need to get back into the upstream a bit more. I've been working on too many internal only things and it's driving me mad
07:38:24 <zhipeng_> and no matter what the tech solution is , we need better mkt for passport
07:39:18 <tobberydberg> Yes, lets make sure we get a kickstart for that in Berlin! Hopefully some more folks that can help out with that as well
07:39:32 <zhipeng_> yep
07:39:39 <tobberydberg> To touch the other topics as well...
07:39:40 <tobberydberg> SDK certification ... first version together with Melvin and OpenLab
07:39:49 <zhipeng_> with go-sdk
07:40:24 <tobberydberg> Starting off small here, forum session regarding that in Berlin how to proceed
07:40:54 <zhipeng_> shall we talk about the forum session now :P
07:41:06 <tobberydberg> #topic 2: Forum sessions Berlin
07:41:09 <tobberydberg> yes =)
07:41:19 <zhipeng_> so how many should we register
07:41:26 <zhipeng_> 3 in total ?
07:42:02 <tobberydberg> No, things have changed my man =)
07:43:02 <tobberydberg> look at the etherpad
07:43:07 <tobberydberg> adding things there
07:44:55 <tobberydberg> So ...
07:45:08 <adriant> part of me wonders... would reparenting a keystone project fit within the change of resource ownership topic...
07:45:13 <tobberydberg> that will make it 5..
07:45:23 <tobberydberg> hmm
07:45:31 <tobberydberg> good point
07:45:47 <adriant> because that's a feature it think operators could use (I know I need it), and right now the only solution is using sql
07:45:49 <tobberydberg> and, you would probably be one of the best co moderators for this one =)
07:46:08 <tobberydberg> I like that
07:46:24 <tobberydberg> And that is basically what I'm thinking as well when talking about that
07:46:39 <zhipeng_> so are we looking at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BER-forum-public-cloud ?
07:46:40 <tobberydberg> But, will need ore discussions I assume
07:46:45 <zhipeng_> add things there ?
07:46:47 <tobberydberg> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg
07:46:52 <zhipeng_> ah sorry
07:47:02 <tobberydberg> added there for now, will move later
07:47:10 <adriant> in my case I need it for sub-project HMT trees, rather than moving just a server or two from one project to another
07:47:27 <adriant> I mean just entirely making a project and all it's resources now the child of another project
07:47:33 <tobberydberg> adriant: get it ... that is a good one as well
07:47:42 <tobberydberg> I would be happy to have them both
07:48:14 <tobberydberg> would you be up for a co-moderation of that topic together with me?
07:48:21 <tobberydberg> adriant ^^
07:48:25 <adriant> sure!
07:48:32 <tobberydberg> Awesome!
07:49:03 <tobberydberg> I have a "tool" from one of the Nova folks that is linked in that "launchpad" entry that I'm about to try some day here soon
07:49:43 <zhipeng_> Dan Smith made that
07:49:51 <tobberydberg> yes
07:50:17 <tobberydberg> adriant: Would be nice to have you around for project deletion as well, up for that too?
07:50:56 <adriant> yes, as that's a topic I've spent a lot of time with
07:51:09 <adriant> internally we have an almighty deletion tool...
07:51:28 <tobberydberg> thats what I thought ... we have too ...even though itright now is lacking attention
07:51:46 <adriant> we just add extra functions to it when we add new services or features
07:52:02 <adriant> it's not pretty
07:52:15 <tobberydberg> Thanks! Think that both those sessions will draw attention from devs and TC, and the more ops we can get there the better
07:53:08 <tobberydberg> So, added a few names to the proposed sessions - zhipeng_ - does that look ok for you?
07:53:20 <zhipeng_> yep :)
07:53:30 <tobberydberg> (I will be around for them all, but might be good with 2 names on each)
07:53:44 <tobberydberg> I guess you will to zhipeng_ =)
07:53:56 <zhipeng_> so shall I register the latter two while you could register the top 3 ?
07:54:00 <tobberydberg> Great
07:54:10 <zhipeng_> or adriant could help register one or two ?
07:54:26 <tobberydberg> I can register, that is fine
07:54:26 <adriant> I just can't attend any that clash with: https://www.openstack.org/summit/berlin-2018/summit-schedule/global-search?t=adjutant
07:54:42 <adriant> bah
07:54:43 <adriant> https://www.openstack.org/summit/berlin-2018/summit-schedule/events/22184/bridging-the-gaps-between-openstack-and-business-logic-with-adjutant
07:54:49 <tobberydberg> Lets first just move them to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BER-forum-public-cloud
07:54:51 <adriant> meant to link directly, not the search :P
07:54:54 <tobberydberg> and give them descriptions
07:55:07 <tobberydberg> For sure adriant
07:55:08 <zhipeng_> i already did
07:55:38 <tobberydberg> Will try to work that out with schedule planners as well
07:56:29 <tobberydberg> zhipeng_: You and me give those topics descriptions and coordinate before we submit?
07:56:46 <zhipeng_> we could do that
07:56:51 <tobberydberg> ++
07:57:20 <tobberydberg> More forum topics suggestions? Or other topics for todays meeting
07:58:34 <zhipeng_> deadline is Sep 26th btw
07:58:58 <tobberydberg> Yes, in a week
07:59:15 <adriant> those topics look fairly sensible
07:59:19 <tobberydberg> so we will not have the time to talk about it during next weeks meeting
08:00:03 <zhipeng_> yep
08:00:07 <tobberydberg> We will not be able to manage much more in 3 days =)
08:01:03 <adriant> and as it stands those topics will likely draw enough attention (and conflicting views)
08:02:50 <tobberydberg> yes
08:03:49 <zhipeng_> :)
08:03:54 <adriant> anyway! I need to run, but will be here next 0700 utc meeting, and will keep in touch as we near the Berlin summit!
08:04:08 <zhipeng_> that's great !
08:04:39 <zhipeng_> and if you could vote for tc, could count on you for one vote :)
08:04:46 <tobberydberg> Great adriant! Thanks for joining!
08:04:56 <adriant> zhipeng_: already voted ;)
08:05:11 <tobberydberg> I will put my votes in later today =)
08:05:32 <zhipeng_> many thx :)
08:05:58 <tobberydberg> Anything else to cover before we close down for today?
08:06:07 <zhipeng_> nothing from my side
08:06:56 <tobberydberg> cool! Lets write descriptions for our forum topics this week and get them in
08:07:29 <tobberydberg> And promote those sessions at the different mailing lists later on as well
08:07:56 <tobberydberg> marketing mailing list for passport for example... =)
08:08:07 <tobberydberg> Thanks for today!
08:08:12 <tobberydberg> #endmeeting