14:01:30 <tobberydberg> #startmeeting publiccloud_wg
14:01:31 <openstack> Meeting started Thu May  9 14:01:30 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tobberydberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:32 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01:34 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'publiccloud_wg'
14:01:58 <tobberydberg> Hello folks! Nice to see you all here! o/
14:02:36 <tobberydberg> Agenda found at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-wg
14:03:22 <tobberydberg> #topic 1. Migrating to SIG
14:04:16 <tobberydberg> Most of you were probably around in Denver, we have been talking for some time of migrating to a SIG, which will now happen ... that work is in progress
14:04:58 <tobberydberg> Will not really be any different for us, just more follow where the community is going
14:05:16 <NilsMagnus> change 655354 was merged, is there anything else to do?
14:06:07 <tobberydberg> There are a few more things to be done
14:06:18 <tobberydberg> renaming stuff mostly in various places
14:06:26 <tobberydberg> but not much more than that
14:06:29 <mriedem> o/
14:06:36 <tobberydberg> welcome mriedem
14:06:48 <tobberydberg> Questions on that topic?
14:09:05 <tobberydberg> #topic 2. Denver discussions
14:09:37 <tobberydberg> We had a few forum sessions
14:10:05 <tobberydberg> deletion of resources and change of ownership
14:10:12 <tobberydberg> Good attention on those with some good outcome
14:10:52 <tobberydberg> "deletion of resources" will happen, or at least a start to get the baseline in place to be able to continue that work
14:11:19 <tobberydberg> Monty will implement a base in shade together with adriant
14:11:46 <mriedem> s/shade/openstacksdk/
14:12:07 <tobberydberg> right
14:12:44 <tobberydberg> also a volunteer for the base support in OSC
14:13:12 <tobberydberg> gtema
14:13:22 <tobberydberg> (thought he was around here earlier)
14:13:55 <ncastele> do we plan to base the work from what has been done with ospurge (https://github.com/openstack/ospurge) or starting "from scratch"?
14:14:07 <tobberydberg> "Change of ownership" action from the Forum was to float that by the projects in PTG
14:15:00 <tobberydberg> melwitt did that, with the answer " I discussed the idea with the cinder and neutron teams at the PTG and they are OK with the plan"
14:15:03 <NilsMagnus> gtema is probably working on the integration in SDK, not sure about OSC
14:15:45 <tobberydberg> ncastele - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-Deletion-of-resources
14:16:36 <tobberydberg> It will be more "natively" integrated in the official tools/libraries (shade/openstacksdk/OSC)
14:17:30 <ncastele> make sense, thanks
14:17:33 <NilsMagnus> so actually the work is done in SDK/OSC, what are actions here in PC-WG/SIG?
14:17:57 <tobberydberg> Initially to followup that work
14:18:05 <NilsMagnus> ack
14:18:30 <tobberydberg> And will probably also be to push that idea to the other teams once the base parts are in place
14:19:27 <tobberydberg> As you can read in the etherpad, one idea is to let every project implement a purge api call ... if that exists, use that etc etc
14:19:48 <tobberydberg> But very glad this is finally happening
14:20:25 <tobberydberg> Change of ownership will be a followup task for us as well
14:20:54 <tobberydberg> questions on that before we move to the billing initiative?
14:21:16 <NilsMagnus> fine with me
14:21:24 <ncastele> fine with me
14:22:02 <tobberydberg> so, "joint development effort for billing"
14:22:29 <tobberydberg> A "thing" that has been talked a bit about over the last years basically
14:22:32 <NilsMagnus> are there any written guidelines or designs for that?
14:22:50 <tobberydberg> NilsMagnus not at this point no
14:23:01 <ncastele> don't think so. We all have our custom implementation
14:23:44 <tobberydberg> Background story is - all public clouds (also private clouds) do their billing today in different ways, some use official openstack projects, some don't
14:24:05 <NilsMagnus> I really like the idea, but I have to admit that it might be hard to pitch this to our guys that do actual billing right now, taking into account the pain it caused in the past. That may or may not apply also to others?
14:24:38 <tobberydberg> Also, basically no one feel that the solutions offered in openstack official projects today solves their needs
14:25:14 <ncastele> we discussed in Denver about collecting our needs first, to ensure projects like Cloudkitty does not cover them
14:25:23 <tobberydberg> NilsMagnus Might be so - and this is pretty early in the process as well
14:25:36 <ncastele> It will help to limit the project also
14:25:39 <tobberydberg> exactly ncastele
14:26:12 <NilsMagnus> I haven't seen a pad for that. Does it make sense to open one to collect demands?
14:26:12 <tobberydberg> I know a lot of us have ideas around this topic, some that are not around today as well
14:26:21 <tobberydberg> Yes
14:26:43 <tobberydberg> My suggestion is as follow:
14:27:06 <tobberydberg> 1. We create an etherpad for initial brainstorming
14:27:35 <tobberydberg> 2. We schedule a meeting specifically for this topic to discuss all ideas
14:27:59 <tobberydberg> 3. We create a spec for how this could work
14:28:23 <tobberydberg> 4. We reach out on mailing list to the community for feedback and thought around this
14:28:55 <tobberydberg> What do you all think is a good way moving forward on this?
14:29:02 <NilsMagnus> +1*4. Is there a naming convention on the pad's names?
14:29:40 <ncastele> I already talked with cloudkitty in Denver about our initiative, they are aware about it and understand why we are doing this, but we need to ensure they have a place somewhere in the process to avoid some "political issues" and other stuff
14:29:53 <tobberydberg> Not really NilsMagnus - but maybe something like "publiccloud-sig-billing-implementation-proposal"  or something in that way :-)
14:30:21 <tobberydberg> Totally agree with that ncastele
14:30:42 <miouge> I'm not super familiar with Cloud Kitty, but I know of a couple of openstack public cloud using CloudKitty for rating, then sending that to their billing system
14:31:28 <tobberydberg> Yes. We don't use it
14:31:48 <ncastele> this is why we need to challenge cloudkitty just after the spec, and before any development, perhaps they will be able to help for some topic
14:31:59 <tobberydberg> +1
14:32:18 <tobberydberg> Definitely before development takes place
14:32:54 <miouge> For those using it, I do not know how much custom patches were required to get things working
14:32:57 <ncastele> I don't know any public cloud provider using cloudkitty at huge scale like some of us have, but we need to ensure why we're not using it regarding our specs
14:33:52 <tobberydberg> In this discussion we had around this we also talked about getting public clouds to put in upstream effort in this "project"
14:34:50 <tobberydberg> Also something that would be good to bring some clarity in the process, what resources we will have and what time commitment we can give into this
14:35:39 <tobberydberg> Today all companies spend a lot of time implementing their own solutions, so much more worth joining up and putting some of that effort into this
14:36:32 <ncastele> yes. I know some of us are able to provide internal resources to make it work so we will probably be able to build a team around this
14:36:59 <tobberydberg> I think and hope so to
14:37:19 <tobberydberg> but that will be part of the process
14:37:28 <NilsMagnus> I made a new pad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/publiccloud-sig-billing-implementation-proposal
14:37:30 <tobberydberg> More thoughts around this at this point?
14:38:11 <tobberydberg> +1 - thanks NilsMagnus
14:38:20 <tobberydberg> I added it to the etherpad
14:38:54 <tobberydberg> Time plan for the initial steps?
14:39:00 <miouge> Should we reach out to other public clouds (like passport) to see if they are interested in participating in the billing thing?
14:39:18 <tobberydberg> Yes, definitely
14:39:46 <NilsMagnus> what about collecting ideas (step 11) until next meeting?
14:39:52 <NilsMagnus> s/11/1
14:40:18 <tobberydberg> So maybe, an email to openstack-discuss about this first step as well?
14:40:27 <tobberydberg> Agree NilsMagnus ... my thought as well!
14:41:29 <NilsMagnus> when is next meeting? now()+2 weeks?
14:41:35 <tobberydberg> yes
14:41:47 <NilsMagnus> so, May 23
14:42:35 <tobberydberg> That is right (and shit, on customer visit in Germany that day) :-) But will try to solve that some how :-)
14:43:27 <tobberydberg> I can reach out to the mailing list and public clouds that doesn't read that list that much as well and try to get them in here as well
14:43:48 <tobberydberg> More on this topic at this point?
14:43:58 <tobberydberg> Everyone ok with above plan?
14:44:24 <ncastele> no more here, discussion will start when we will share our needs :)
14:44:37 <tobberydberg> :-)
14:45:35 <tobberydberg> if not more in this, over to next and last agenda topic...
14:45:50 <tobberydberg> #topic 3. Other topics
14:46:47 <tobberydberg> Any other topics that anyone would like to raise?
14:47:28 <ncastele> nope
14:47:45 <NilsMagnus> The change-of-ownership is just an implementation detail on the deletion subject?
14:47:59 <tobberydberg> no, separate "thing"
14:48:11 <tobberydberg> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-change-ownership-of-resources
14:48:13 <NilsMagnus> just asking' as it is on the agenda
14:48:28 <tobberydberg> just touched it briefly above
14:49:12 <tobberydberg> we will do followup on that, but as of today, that discussion took place in the cross project team meetings at the PTG
14:49:28 <NilsMagnus> ok
14:50:59 <tobberydberg> It was nice talking to you all in Denver! Also nice that you turned up here today! :-)
14:51:19 <gtema> I am also here, sadly a bit late
14:51:39 <tobberydberg> welcome gtema :-)
14:52:00 <NilsMagnus> Is there some folklore here to conclude a meeting? Everyone singing a song? The chairman doing some special dance?
14:52:01 <gtema> thanks. Since I am also participating in the project_cleanup dev - you are free to ping/ask me
14:53:20 <tobberydberg> great gtema - we will do followup in that moving forward, and also, feel free to bring status updates here if or/and when you have that =)
14:53:21 <ncastele> Agree to sing a song, only if it's a Katy Perry's one
14:53:33 <gtema> oki
14:53:43 <gtema> no Katy Perry please
14:53:44 <tobberydberg> haha NilsMagnus - happy that we don't do video calls just now ;-)
14:54:07 <gtema> Another brick in the wall of Openstack !!
14:54:34 <tobberydberg> I guess we will have a forum session around ending ceremony in Shanghai ;-)
14:54:54 <NilsMagnus> too bad, it looked like for a second that gtema volunteered for Katy Perry :)
14:55:14 <gtema> no way Nils
14:55:44 <ncastele> I also started to be happy, but this meeting is definitely ending bad from my point of view :(
14:55:57 <tobberydberg> 5 more minutes to raise a topic ... or sing a song... ;-)
14:56:18 <ncastele> hopefully I can trust Spotify to give me some KP
14:57:00 <gtema> well, if people like Kate - I'm fine, it's just I will not sing it ;-)
14:57:16 <tobberydberg> :-)
14:58:07 <ncastele> I think I'm the only one going for KP, and as I'm quite new (first time on IRC :o ), I'll not push too much for KP, let's stay discreet
14:59:08 <tobberydberg> hehe
15:00:08 <tobberydberg> So I guess time is up, and some of you will go listen to KP... ;-) Thanks for today all! Looking forward to next meeting and what ideas we can proved until then!
15:00:24 <ncastele> Yes, thanks for the discussion, see u in two weeks
15:00:24 <gtema> great. See you
15:00:36 <tobberydberg> o/
15:00:38 <tobberydberg> #endmeeting