21:00:46 #startmeeting quantum 21:00:47 Meeting started Mon Oct 22 21:00:46 2012 UTC. The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:00:48 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:00:49 The meeting name has been set to 'quantum' 21:01:06 gongysh, did you or garyk get the award for longest distance traveled? 21:01:11 probably garyk? 21:01:16 no 21:01:26 i had 8 hours at heathrow :) 21:01:30 haha 21:01:41 #link agenda: http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings 21:01:44 hi 21:01:47 hi 21:01:50 I got flu on the plane :/ 21:01:55 we have a ton to cover, so let's get going 21:01:57 hi 21:02:08 ok, apologies for starting the discussion on who had the worst flight :P 21:02:29 #info Grizzly release schedule has been finalized http://wiki.openstack.org/GrizzlyReleaseSchedule 21:02:35 i had the worst and the longest 21:02:37 the big news is that there is no big news 21:02:51 release schedule is following pretty much the same pattern as folsom 21:03:09 three milestones, fairly long RC time. two weeks between release and next summit. 21:03:11 if possible we should also try and contain bugs 21:03:25 garyk: ? 21:04:02 garyk: sorry, don't understand the last statement 21:04:09 danwent: it seems like lately there are quite a few bugs opened. we should try and make sure that the open bugs stays low 21:04:15 danwent: does that make sense 21:04:26 garyk: ah yes, in fact, we'll talk about that later down on the agenda 21:04:41 ok, sorry for the interruption 21:04:50 as I wanted to discuss the set of bugs open against folsom and when we should target a stable folsom update 21:04:52 no worries 21:05:05 #topic Grizzly-1 21:05:15 so the Grizzly-1 date is actually just a month away 21:05:53 so I wanted to spend a chunk of this meeting making sure we have blueprints created for key community tasks needed early in grizzly 21:06:10 as rkukura pointed out during the summit, there's a need for us to do a better job as a community creating blueprints 21:06:31 agree 21:06:40 +1 21:06:41 a blueprint should be good enough that a reveiwer can read it before reviewing the code and understand what you are trying to achieve, and roughly how you plan to achieve it 21:06:54 +1 21:07:17 +1 21:07:21 it will certainly help the review process 21:07:27 salv_orlando: +1 (this also implies we as cores must review blueprints too) 21:07:30 and documentation 21:07:33 let's all hold each other to a higher standard. If you go to review something that is bigger than a bug fix, and you find that the blueprint is not sufficient, moving forward we should as the feature creator to improve the blueprint before reviewing 21:07:49 early feedback on the blueprints is also important, well before the review 21:07:59 garyk: agreed. one idea i had been thinking about was requiring docs along with a change-set, but that is hard in practice. 21:08:18 garyk: but i'm open to ideas there… leaving all docs to the end of the release is bad 21:08:39 danwent: if we follow the suggestions for the detailed blueprints then it should be easier to port to docs later 21:08:51 danwent, garyk: that is feasible IMHO. Just a matter of establishing rules for things. 21:09:01 salv-orlando: agreed 21:09:15 a good spec is ok. 21:09:17 A desirable side effect would be avoiding feature creep 21:09:47 salv-orlando: are you suggesting docs in the admin guide before code is committed, or just a blueprint that people thing is good enough to turn into docs? 21:10:38 the issue is that often features arrive in several commits, making the former difficult. 21:10:38 Ideally one would like to have the documents before the code is merged. Then this could be evaluated case by case 21:11:02 danwent: agree. Let's see what we can do offline 21:11:49 ok. salv-orlando, can you put together a proposal for this? It sounds like something we should have on the quantum development wiki page for (how do i implement a feature?) 21:12:32 garyk: sounds like you're interested as well. perhaps you and salv-orlando can coordinate 21:12:44 danwent: ok 21:12:51 I will review. Haha 21:12:57 danwent: sure 21:12:59 gongysh: :) 21:13:34 Ok, so i'm going to quickly move through some of the quick community topics, to identify who will be putting blueprints together on the key community topics discussed at teh summit 21:13:55 CI gating (nati_ueno ? mnewby ?) 21:14:08 do we have a blueprint that we are using for this? 21:14:11 I'm working on execise.sh to work 21:14:15 danwent: Not sure 21:14:27 danwent: We can reuse this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-gate 21:14:28 danwent: dan prince is intersted in getting smokestack working with quantum 21:14:32 Please assign it to me 21:14:33 ok, this will be the top focus of every quantum team meeting until we do. 21:14:45 or rather, until we have a gate running with quantum 21:14:53 i think that we should maybe invest in the smokestack like nova. 21:15:05 garyk: What is smokestack executing? 21:15:19 garyk: +1 for smokestack 21:15:39 nati_ueno: ok, updated the BP, assigned it to you, and updated other fields 21:15:40 garyk, nati_ueno: what is the relationship between smokestack and tempest? 21:15:46 mnewby: as far as i understand it runs installation packages, puppet moduels etc. launches vm's and test traffic between them. i can ask dan for extra details 21:16:07 mnewby: Yes. It is another CI process. 21:16:29 will smokestack continue to run even once we have full tempest integration? 21:16:46 I am not sure if they are duplicate efforts, or have different goals. 21:16:56 it sounds like duplicative 21:17:10 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstack.org%2Fsmokestack&ei=ybeFUML3JI3LtAbfjICgBw&usg=AFQjCNGcZzE9UMz-BrrfJsR4-iWxGspmaQ 21:17:12 it's useful, but if developers can't run the tests themselves i question it's longterm value 21:17:47 Oh well, I guess we do both. 21:18:28 i think that i should be used for our gating. 21:18:31 I'm more interested in single-host (devstack) testing (at least initially), but for gating we'll need all of the aboev. 21:20:07 garyk: can you ask dan prince about the long-term direction of the openstack community regarding tempest vs. smokestack? What i've been told to date is that our efforts should be focused on tempest (though i'll be grateful for more testing, regardless of platform) 21:20:17 danwent: sure. 21:20:20 The annoyance is that the tests are in ruby. 21:20:24 (for smokestack) 21:20:30 I need a facility that make sure each patch will not break our dear quantum in the end. 21:21:11 gongysh: that is what gating does. what i've been told so far is that the CI team is moving toward gating on tempest in the long-term 21:21:28 though in the short-term they also gate on devstack exercise scripts + smokestack (I believe) 21:22:04 ok, got to keep moving. nati_ueno: any blockers in terms of gating? 21:22:17 just fixing issues with exercise.sh? 21:22:21 I think just debug exesice.sh 21:22:27 Yes 21:22:51 I'll request merge for devstack until this week 21:22:53 do you anticipate having that done soon? I'd say to escalate any issues you're having to the entire core team, as its critical we get this going 21:23:09 Yes soon 21:23:11 ok, garyk and I are both core devstack devs, so we should be able to review quickly. 21:23:14 ok, next topick 21:23:25 related: tempest tests 21:23:36 nati_ueno, maru blueprints here? 21:23:39 others? 21:23:56 related https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-system-test ? 21:24:18 Maybe, we should have the blueprint in QA team project 21:24:37 I would agree 21:24:37 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest 21:24:39 nati_ueno: yes, i'm fine with the BP being there, just really looking to make sure someone is working on it. 21:24:53 OK I'll create one 21:25:20 ok, please send it out to the team so we can track. there was also someone from rackspace who said he would have developers for this. 21:25:31 anyone remember the name? I'll have to look it up. 21:25:37 daryl 21:25:38 he was at the meeting, sitting behind me. 21:25:43 danwent: gotcha 21:26:00 mnewby: thx. anyone know daryl's email or irc? 21:26:12 was he on that old thread we had going? 21:26:16 Daryl Walleck 21:26:22 thx 21:27:11 Ok, let's loop him into the discussion 21:27:36 mnewby: do you expect to create a BP, or just work with daryl + nachi? 21:27:54 danwent: I haven't really worked with BPs, what is requied? 21:28:29 Done https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/quantum-tempest 21:28:34 BPs are just a feature/bug-tracking tools where you describe a new capability you will be adding to the system. 21:29:17 as we mentioned above, for features, they should include use cases, design, and doc for configuring + using the feature. Might be slightly different for test cases though. 21:29:44 Ok 21:30:09 I think during the summit we agreed that this work would be discussed during the weekly temptest meetings, but it would be good if someone reported back progress to the quantum meeting 21:30:28 as having good system test is critical to the success of quantum long-term, especially as it grows in complexity. 21:30:44 OK I'll attend both of meeting and report it 21:30:45 ok, got to keep moving 21:30:48 nati_ueno: thx 21:30:58 database upgrade: markmcclain , salv-orlando 21:31:16 I can help with it 21:31:16 had a work item from summit that markmcclain was proposing a mechanism other than sqlalchemy-migrate 21:31:22 I haven't done anything beyond looking at how we can use alembic 21:31:33 for solving issue with plugin-specific upgrade paths 21:31:39 let's get a BP together on this that describe the trade-offs and a design 21:31:55 we need to get this infrastructure in before we start significantly changing the DB 21:32:04 +1 21:32:09 np. markmcclain - I'll send you an email for stealing some of your time on IRC 21:32:28 danwent: salv-orlando: i was thinking that we have the user first upgrade to folsom and then convert to quantum. is this relevant 21:32:31 ok, can one of you create a BP and assign to G-1 with essential priority? 21:32:45 danwent: sure 21:32:58 garyk: you're talking about converting from nova-network to quantum? 21:32:59 garyk: we are looking at Quantum to Quantum upgrades at the moment 21:33:06 that's slightly different, but also useful 21:33:13 danwent: yes. salv-orlando: ok 21:33:15 perhaps we can have a separate blueprints from nova-network to Quantum migration 21:33:21 i had it on the agenda for today, but then took it off thinking we shouldn't have time. 21:33:35 but if you want to create a nova-network conversion blueprint, i think that makes sense. 21:34:13 garyk: can you make a bp for this? either way, its good to track it. 21:34:19 nova gaps 21:34:21 danwent: sure 21:34:25 three sub-topics 21:34:34 security groups (arosen / nachi) 21:34:55 security groups api is already in review, as it was a miss from folsom. 21:35:06 we have much talk for security groups in design summit session. 21:35:10 arosen, i haven't seen the blueprint, but probably a good idea to freshen it up, given the above conversation 21:35:17 we should have a wrap up. 21:35:23 danwent: will do 21:35:33 gongysh: let's have the discussion around the blueprint 21:35:56 yes. pointint to the etherpad 21:35:59 aaron, i'm guessing the blueprint needs to be expanded to our new grizzly standards. 21:36:19 I think https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-security-groups is related to this. 21:36:25 with gongysh reviewing 21:36:37 note: there is a ton of stuf we could do around firewalling and filtering. 21:36:38 garyk: haha. bad guy. 21:37:15 but the most critical thing we HAVE to accomplish in grizzly is getting security groups in quantum with support for overlapping IPs. 21:37:27 that was a black-eye for quantum in folsom. 21:37:33 And for multiple interfaces in some sensible fashion. 21:37:46 ijw1: agreed. that's already tackled in aaron's proposal as well. 21:37:59 ok, multi-host 21:38:04 It is a good idea to merge arosen's security group API first before moving the next. 21:38:13 Where's Aaron's proposal? 21:38:19 amotoki: merge with what? 21:38:36 danwent: the current patch under review from arosen 21:38:41 ijw1: this was actually covered at the folsom summit for folsom, he can point to the preso 21:38:58 arosen: does BP link to dave's presentation? 21:39:04 ijw1: I'll put up the openstack-manual documentation i'm working on that should help shed some light as well. 21:39:11 danwent: yes it does. 21:39:12 amotoki: ah, i agree. 21:39:37 I'd like to make sure the base security groups stuff is in very early, which is why arosen and nati_ueno are working on it already. 21:39:44 This is the review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14262/ 21:39:51 ok, only 20 mins left and much to cover :( 21:39:57 quickly, multi-host 21:40:01 I didn't started yet. Just play with firewall.py 21:40:06 what is active blueprint for this, and who owns it? 21:40:11 I updated bp for multi-host https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-multihost-dhcp 21:40:18 nati_ueno: this is just for dhcp? 21:40:25 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-multihost-dhcp 21:40:31 No not just dhcp 21:40:34 I should update it 21:40:38 nati_ueno: i'm also a bit worried that you seem to be volunteering for all of the blueprints 21:40:39 What of the routing aspects of multihost? 21:40:48 Oh, sorry, bit late with that ;) 21:41:00 nati_ueno: can you update BP name to avoid confusion? 21:41:05 danwent: I got it 21:41:14 gongysh: are you contributing to multi_host stuff as well? 21:41:16 nati_ueno: don't u want me to do it? 21:41:30 danwent: It seem I can't update bp id 21:41:40 ah, launchpad... 21:41:42 gongysh: Ether way is OK :) 21:42:10 gongysh: Do you want to do this one? 21:42:15 nati_ueno: since you have so much on your plate, having gongysh head it up makes sense to me. 21:42:29 danwent: I got it 21:42:35 nati_ueno: I hope I can help u to do it. 21:42:38 nati_ueno: title of blueprint is good…, mentions both dhcp and L2 21:42:43 L3 21:43:01 I updated whiteboard today 21:43:04 i updated the link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-multihost 21:43:17 ok, keep moving 21:43:26 Ohh It can be updated! 21:43:38 nova gaps, metadata. markmcclain, you or carlp handling this? 21:43:48 I'm working on metadata 21:43:57 I hoped to have code today… looks like tomorrow 21:44:08 great, this will be a huge help 21:44:19 we already have a bp targeted for G-1 for that 21:44:47 garyk: planning on creating a blueprint on the nova/quantum flow and vif-plugging stuff? 21:44:59 danwent: yes, i'll do it tomorrow 21:45:19 garyk: cool. for the LB plugin in particular, I see that as essential. 21:45:30 danwent: agreed 21:45:31 garyk: drop me a mail when you've done it, ta 21:45:41 ijw1: will do 21:45:54 ijw1: as long as you do not heckle 21:45:57 aww 21:46:01 salv-orlando: are you creating blueprints around the API infrastructure for higher-level services like LBaaS? 21:46:15 danwent: yep 21:46:45 I think rkukura is likely interested in helping with API extension framework stuff as well. 21:46:47 does the separate LBaas will use our API infra? 21:47:05 I think it should 21:47:16 gongysh: higher level services will be able to be loaded and run indepdent of the main plugin, and that's something we don't really support now 21:47:34 roman (spelling?) from mirantis had a good slide that discussed this at the summit 21:47:46 I think a LBaaS will plug into quantum as a client; I don't necessarily know that it's a part of the same API endpoint. 21:48:16 then what do we mean by API infrastructure for higher-level services like LBaaS? 21:48:22 ijw1: current plan is same endpoint, though I'm not sure the discussion is final. 21:48:30 I think we talked about this a bit :) 21:48:47 gongysh: perhaps best to take a look at salv-orlando's blueprint, and at the sessions he and sasha presented 21:48:59 salv-orlando: I will start an email discussion offline once the blueprint is filed 21:49:08 ok. I will talk to salv offline. 21:49:10 anyway, we have 12 mins left in the meeting, so let's leave those details for offline discussion 21:49:12 thx 21:49:26 client-lib + cli enhancements 21:49:34 i assume gongysh and markmcclain will be coordinating here 21:49:39 yep 21:49:43 sure. 21:49:49 note, these should actually be created as blueprints in the python-quantumclient project 21:49:57 will do 21:50:01 but we will discuss them in this meeting 21:50:18 horizon next steps. amotoki, nati_ueno ? filing these under horizon? 21:50:30 BP is not filed yet. 21:50:32 but please send a note to the quantum team or post the BPs next meeting so peopel are aware of them. 21:50:42 I got it 21:50:44 danwent: sure. 21:50:56 IPv6 stuff. markmcclain, you will file? 21:51:00 yes 21:51:07 nati_ueno: I will send you a mail later. 21:51:13 and have a few folks who'd said that help with code 21:51:15 amotoki: gotcha 21:51:19 Ok. rkukura where you planning on doing a BP for your modular plugin stuff in G-1? 21:51:26 yes 21:51:36 Ok, please create and target. 21:51:38 first steps 21:52:12 I know there are other items that people want to do in G-1, and that's fine, I just wanted to cover key community wide topics here. Are there other items that we think should be priority high or above for G-1? 21:52:32 (note: i'm leaving the LBaaS stuff out for now, as they are doing a separeate meeting) 21:52:37 VPN stuff is not G1? 21:52:45 and Service enhancement 21:53:01 VPN is a blueprint I'm going to write 21:53:31 nati_ueno: I figure we had a lot on our plate for G-1. If mark things we can tackle in in G-1 as well, that's great 21:53:44 regarind firewalling, i plan to write a document during G-1. 21:53:48 but I was thinking other services would probably wait until G-2 before they were a major community focus. 21:53:59 danwent: I got it 21:54:50 #info: as a heads up for those interested in LBaaS. they have a separeate weekly meeting on thursday mornings now, see: http://wiki.openstack.org/Quantum/LBaaS 21:54:56 danwent: my plea is for getting service insertion complete in G-1 before moving to the other services 21:54:57 I will also write a blueprint for L3/services so that it is there for comments ... and also talk offline to Salvatore 21:55:09 salv-orlando: that's a good point. 21:55:36 +1 to get service insertion in early 21:55:45 +1 21:55:51 amotoki: feel free to put together a BP, but I want to make sure we have main service insertion stuff somewhat settled before we actually start coding on all types of higher-level services. 21:56:09 salv-orlando: ok, let's jack up the priority of that BP for G-1 21:56:15 and make sure we really focus effort there. 21:56:20 danwent: I feel so too. 21:56:26 ok, 4 minutes :( 21:56:40 danwent: lets talk about bugs next week 21:56:52 ok, sounds like we'll need to leave the discussion of sub-teams to tomorrow, but I just wanted to send out this link with some of my thoughts: https://etherpad.openstack.org/grizzly-quantum-wrapup 21:57:06 garyk: agreed, let's just highlight the list 21:57:14 ok 21:57:21 Where can I know sub-teams? 21:57:24 #info here is list of current bugs tagged for possible folsom-backport: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantum/+bugs?field.tag=folsom-backport-potential 21:57:43 nati_ueno: all info i've put together so far is on that etherpad link. feel free to comment there and we'll talk about it next week. 21:57:51 garyk is our master of folsom stable 21:57:53 danwent: there is no beer team! 21:57:54 danwent: I got it 21:58:02 lol 21:58:09 danwent: more than happy to start rolling on service insertion (and there goes my sleep) 21:58:14 please help him out by making sure all bugs relevant to folsom are tagged with folsom-backport-potential 21:58:43 we should also start thinking about a date for a folsom-stable release update 21:59:00 let's nail that down next week, along with a list of bugs we think must be fixed in that release. 21:59:06 garyk: sound reasonable? anything to add? 21:59:24 danwent: not at the moment. tomorrow i'll go over the bugs etc. 21:59:29 garyk: awesome 21:59:33 #topic open discussion 22:00:05 I will send an email to the list with my thoughts on how to handle possible influx of plugins + drivers from vendors in grizzly 22:00:09 danwent, nati: can u agree to assign multi-host to me? 22:00:27 so far we have had a policy that any plugin must has a core dev who offers to stand behind it 22:00:36 gongysh: yes, I will 22:00:39 gongysh: I agree 22:00:43 gongysh: Thanks! 22:00:52 U are welcome 22:00:59 ok, anything else we need to discuss here before we sign off? 22:01:00 good nati_ueno. 22:01:11 pagination? 22:01:27 I hope pagination can get in for G1 22:01:35 salv-orlando: can you chat with gongysh about pagination after the meeting? I know you had thoughts on nit. 22:01:37 it 22:01:51 ok, hope you all had a fun summit, now its back to work :) 22:01:52 danwent, gongysh: sure 22:01:55 #endmeeting