14:01:49 <vgridnev> #startmeeting sahara
14:01:50 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Mar 24 14:01:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is vgridnev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:52 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01:54 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'sahara'
14:02:13 <vgridnev> #chair elmiko
14:02:15 <openstack> Current chairs: elmiko vgridnev
14:02:26 <vgridnev> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SaharaAgenda
14:02:35 <elmiko> anyone else here for the meeting?
14:02:39 <esikachev> hi!
14:02:40 <tosky> hi
14:02:41 <esikachev> )
14:02:44 <elmiko> \o/
14:02:45 <vgridnev> let's wait a little
14:03:00 <NikitaKonovalov> o/
14:03:30 <crobertsrh> hello/
14:04:35 <vgridnev> #topic News / updates
14:04:49 <vgridnev> any news folks?
14:05:03 <elmiko> i'm researching microversion support for api v2, working towards writing a spec
14:05:05 <crobertsrh> Mostly just reviews for me recently.  There are a couple bugs on my radar though that I hope to tackle soon.
14:05:21 <elmiko> i'd also like to propose making the bandit gate voting
14:05:36 <vgridnev> I busy with internal tasks, trying to get in the new PTL role
14:05:45 <esikachev> Nightly jobs are added! And working on adding new features to scenario-framework
14:06:05 <tosky> still preparing the sahara-tempest-api migration to sahara-tests, I think I finally have all the steps, but figthing with gerrit ACLs
14:06:22 <vgridnev> elmiko, I am ok with making bandit voting
14:06:34 <elmiko> vgridnev: cool, i'll make a review today
14:06:43 <esikachev> tosky: what ACL you mean?
14:07:33 <tosky> esikachev: Access Control List; I need also to temporarily enable the creation of new branches for cores, so that we can push the reviews with the imported code
14:07:38 <tmckay> I am still working on refactoring around use_floating_ips as a background task -- finished testing neutron, starting on nova
14:07:40 <NikitaKonovalov> I'm mostly busy with internal activities, nothing to share ((
14:07:54 <tosky> and the ACLs are again hosted on git, so I'm trying to understand the rules to avoid a -2 on the first review :)
14:08:26 <esikachev> ok, thanks
14:08:30 <vgridnev> do we need to Community Roadmap topic?
14:09:11 <vgridnev> any other news?
14:09:30 <vgridnev> #topic API v2 progress
14:09:37 <vgridnev> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/273316/
14:09:41 <elmiko> pretty slow this last week
14:09:41 <vgridnev> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sahara/api-v2
14:10:02 <elmiko> i am helping to on-board a few more red hatters who will work on v2, and researching some of the bigger features
14:10:23 <elmiko> i don't imagine any reviews coming for v2 for at least another week or so
14:10:40 <elmiko> that's all for me
14:10:49 <tosky> elmiko: after moving tempest api tests to sahara-tests, we can start planning the v2 versions of the tests :)
14:10:58 <elmiko> tosky: +1
14:11:05 <elmiko> oh, one more thing
14:11:08 <tmckay> elmiko, oh, where is your deprecation rodeo etherpad for summit?
14:11:33 <vgridnev> #topic Scenario tests releases
14:11:39 <elmiko> i'd like to create a new sahara.service.api package to refactor the way we handle the interaction between api and conductor
14:11:47 <elmiko> should i make a spec to propose this change?
14:12:04 <crobertsrh> Might be a good idea
14:12:15 <elmiko> tmckay: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sahara-newton-summit
14:12:20 <elmiko> crobertsrh: is that a +1 to spec?
14:12:25 <vgridnev> elmiko, would be nice, I think
14:12:27 <crobertsrh> yeah
14:12:32 <elmiko> k,  thanks
14:12:41 <tmckay> thanks elmiko
14:13:05 <vgridnev> esikachev, tosky , hands for you on Scenario tests releases
14:13:27 <esikachev> tosky: any news about tempest tests?
14:14:01 <tosky> esikachev: what I wrote above, I needed to figure out an additional step and I'm working on the patches for permissions on gerrit
14:14:12 <vgridnev> I just want to say that I have ideas to create new launchpad group for sahara tests drivers, where can add esickachev and tosky
14:14:14 <tosky> do you want to wait for the merge of tempest api for a first release or do you want to have a first release now?
14:14:32 <esikachev> i am moved all default template in scenario dir from etc/
14:14:57 <esikachev> tosky: how many time you need?
14:15:04 <esikachev> for moving
14:15:06 <tosky> esikachev: I fear all the next week
14:15:42 <esikachev> vgridnev: what did you think about it?
14:15:59 <esikachev> vgridnev: and +1 for launchpad group
14:16:15 <vgridnev> tosky, esikachev I think that we can release sahara tests along with mitaka release
14:16:29 <vgridnev> since it's not added to requirements
14:16:37 <vgridnev> global, I meant
14:16:55 <esikachev> ok
14:17:29 <tosky> ok
14:17:51 <esikachev> tosky: next topic?
14:18:11 <vgridnev> #topic Newton summit topics
14:18:11 <vgridnev> #topic Newton summit topics
14:18:11 <vgridnev> #topic Newton summit topics
14:18:18 <vgridnev> #undo
14:18:19 <openstack> Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0xa88e590>
14:18:21 <vgridnev> #undo
14:18:22 <openstack> Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0xa88e550>
14:18:30 <tmckay> oh, elmiko, do we want to list deprecation topics ahead of time, or just show up with them? on that etherpad, or another?
14:18:33 <vgridnev> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sahara-newton-summit
14:19:02 <vgridnev> I still not sure about my attending to summit
14:19:04 <elmiko> tmckay: i'm ok either way, probably best to make a list there if you think it might get forgotten?
14:19:26 <elmiko> hope you can make vgridnev, would be fun to meet face-to-face =)
14:19:39 <crobertsrh> Yes, our new PTL should certainly be there
14:20:05 <vgridnev> I will try to attend
14:21:14 <tmckay> vgridnev, ++, what would be great
14:21:20 <vgridnev> I have some ideas to put in there, I think that if will not attend to summit SergeyLukjanov will driver this discussions
14:21:21 <tmckay> sorry, what => that
14:21:56 <vgridnev> I will put this topics in ether pad shortly
14:22:56 <elmiko> i added a bunch of stuff there, not sure what we will end up talking about but i tried to capture topics from past summits
14:23:56 <vgridnev> #topic Open discussion
14:24:56 <crobertsrh> Might be worth mentioning that I think we're planning to make the integration tests voting in sahara-dashboard
14:25:10 <tmckay> vgridnev, should we discuss hdp 2.0.6 plugin deprecation and SIE, scenario tests, and doc changes?
14:25:56 <vgridnev> so, I have some ideas that I wanna bring to sahara, so. We have a bunch of blueprints that are in unclear state, do we want to have some kind of sahara-drivers-meeting to make cleanup of that?
14:26:05 <elmiko> crobertsrh: +1
14:26:12 <vgridnev> crobertsrh, agreed
14:26:20 <elmiko> vgridnev: that sounds good to me
14:26:33 <tmckay> vgridnev, ++, I was just thinking about bp cleanup the other day
14:26:37 <crobertsrh> that is probably a great idea, +1
14:26:58 <tmckay> vgridnev, also, there are wiki pages associated with sahara that are probably way out of date or not relevant anymore
14:27:09 <tosky> good idea, the list of blueprints include many which are implemented already, or totally useless now
14:27:13 <tmckay> like, the sequence diagrams for EDP :)
14:28:18 <vgridnev> tmckay, about HDP 2.0.6: I think that we can remove hdp206 from sahara-tests only in branches where it deprecated or removed
14:28:38 <esikachev> vgridnev: tmckay https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297173/
14:28:42 <esikachev> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297173/
14:28:58 <vgridnev> about SIE I think that we can do removal too, but I think that we can super short spec to discuss that
14:29:41 <tosky> vgridnev: also when it's deprecated? I thought we simply removed HDP 2.0.6 from the default list in Mitaka, but it's still working
14:29:55 <tmckay> vgridnev, ++ on SIE. to clarify, then, you are saying that we should keep scenario tests for stable/liberty, stable/mitaka, etc?
14:30:01 <tmckay> agreed, if that is the case
14:30:44 <vgridnev> esikachev, could please say the current state of HDP 206 on CI?
14:30:45 <tmckay> esikachev, thanks
14:31:00 <esikachev> vgridnev: deprecated from all releases
14:31:10 <tmckay> tosky, yes, CR this morning to remove in newton
14:31:25 <tmckay> tosky, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297001/
14:31:37 <tmckay> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297001/
14:32:08 <tosky> esikachev: do you mean non voting or still running?
14:32:43 <esikachev> tosky: i mean,  removed from all ci scripts
14:32:49 <vgridnev> about blueprints, there are two options I think: additional topic in agenda, or how it's done in horizon, for example, separate meeting
14:33:08 <tosky> esikachev: but it should run still for liberty and mitaka (kilo will be out of support soon)
14:33:19 <vgridnev> I think that the separate meeting will be overkill for us
14:33:51 <esikachev> tosky: in liberty actual version is ambari 2.2
14:34:04 <tosky> esikachev: no, hdp is still working
14:34:10 <tosky> vgridnev: ^
14:34:27 <tosky> hdp 2.0.6 is even enabled by default there
14:34:35 <tmckay> vgridnev, ++ I think an agenda item will be enough, and normal channel IRC discussion
14:34:39 <tosky> and even if it's disabled by default in mitaka, devstack enables it
14:34:49 <tosky> and it should still work
14:35:05 <tosky> so I propose to readd hdp 2.0.6 tests to libery and mitaka branches
14:35:21 <vgridnev> I would say that we should keep hdp206 for liberty, if it possible
14:35:22 <tmckay> I agree with tosky. For everything up through mitaka, it should remain being tested
14:36:22 <tmckay> we don't want to break it with a backport to stable/mitaka accidentally ...
14:37:04 <vgridnev> tmckay, it's deprecated for mitaka, so cluster can't be created
14:37:12 <tmckay> ah, okay
14:37:22 <tmckay> vgridnev, liberty then
14:37:29 <tmckay> I thought we just put out a warning ...
14:37:46 <tmckay> but if we refuse to launch, okay
14:38:28 <tosky> when you discuss the deprecation policy again in Austin, please talk about the meaning of "deprected" and the cycle again
14:38:34 <tosky> deprecated* even
14:38:58 <tosky> I still feel that deprecating should be like what happens with library: a bit statement printed, but still working
14:39:07 <vgridnev> agreed, there is a lot of mess with meaning of this word
14:39:25 <tosky> we suddendly move from "working" to "not working" without notice (as deprecated is basically "not working")
14:39:41 <tmckay> yes. I think warning is good, exception is a bit of overkill. I go in and remove the exception ;-)
14:40:14 <elmiko> tosky: i thought that is how we interpret deprecated now?
14:40:26 <tmckay> we could even add a config "raise_on_deprecation", default true if we like
14:40:28 <elmiko> i thought we warn about deprecation for a cycle, then remove
14:40:44 <tosky> I thought as well, but I would need to check the code for hdp in mitaka
14:40:49 <elmiko> if not, we need to seriously look at the deprecation tag policies and make sure we are inline with them
14:40:50 <tmckay> elmiko, some of the plugin deprecations are done with an exception
14:40:56 <tosky> iirc it was just disabled
14:41:10 <tmckay> elmiko, soft stop for a developer (but for a non-tech-savvy customer, effectively immediate breakage)
14:41:29 <tmckay> maybe a little too harsh
14:41:44 <elmiko> then, i agree with tosky. we need to talk about this again and better establish our methodologies
14:41:54 <tmckay> maybe a config to toggle would be a good compromise. "We really don't want you to use this, but if you must .... set the config"
14:41:59 <tosky> elmiko: may I point out that you +2-ed this? :) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/292364/
14:42:07 <tmckay> tosky, lol
14:42:15 <tosky> tmckay: and you too :P
14:42:16 <tmckay> me too
14:42:24 <tmckay> I am ashamed
14:42:43 <elmiko> lol
14:42:48 <elmiko> well, we need to revisit it then
14:42:57 <tosky> ok, so just please try to define the policy properly for future deprecations
14:43:01 <elmiko> i'm ok being wrong.... occasionally ;)
14:43:02 <tosky> (I won't be in Austin)
14:43:03 <tmckay> elmiko, let's make it part of deprecation rodea
14:43:14 <elmiko> we need to better follow this: http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/assert_follows-standard-deprecation.html
14:43:45 <elmiko> and probably state that we will deprecate (meaning give warnings), then remove
14:44:14 <elmiko> i realize that tag is mainly about api stuff, but still
14:45:23 <tmckay> added a note to the etherpad ...
14:45:32 <vgridnev> uh, I forgot something to mention. it looks like new third-party CI was added to sahara, Mirantis Rally CI, but it looks like it's still failed
14:46:41 <esikachev> rally-team working on it
14:47:45 <vgridnev> esikachev, do you know something about estimates when it will working?
14:48:36 <esikachev> they said 'asap'
14:49:09 <vgridnev> ok, thanks esikachev
14:50:37 <vgridnev> also, I will try to be prepared to the future revisiting blueprints, I will add new topic to meeting with the ether pad to track that
14:51:09 <vgridnev> I hope that we can find something to discuss at the summit
14:51:15 <vgridnev> Maybe
14:51:27 <elmiko> sounds good
14:54:17 <vgridnev> 5 mins left, anything else to discuss?
14:55:58 * tmckay cannot think of anything
14:56:14 <vgridnev> 5
14:56:19 <vgridnev> 4
14:56:24 <vgridnev> 3
14:56:28 <vgridnev> 2
14:56:48 <vgridnev> 1, thanks for attending to the meeting
14:56:57 <vgridnev> #endmeeting