11:01:52 <martial_> #startmeeting scientific-sig
11:01:53 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jul 17 11:01:52 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is martial_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:01:54 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
11:01:56 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig'
11:02:03 <dh3> hi o/
11:02:44 <martial_> so this week, we have a couple items to go through followed by AOB
11:03:01 <martial_> #topic Complete the OpenStack user survey and register scientific OpenStack deployments
11:03:17 <janders> hi Martial
11:03:37 <martial_> if you have a running OpenStack at your site, we request that you fill the survey
11:03:40 <dh3> we inadvertently did the survey twice (left hand meet right hand) and wondered if/how the results are deduped
11:03:49 <martial_> #link https://www.openstack.org/user-survey/survey-2019/landing
11:03:59 <b1airo> evening
11:04:00 <martial_> janders: hi :)
11:04:05 <martial_> #chair b1airo
11:04:06 <openstack> Current chairs: b1airo martial_
11:04:33 <martial_> dh3: I do not remember if the survey is related to our OpenStack ID
11:04:42 <martial_> b1airo: hi
11:05:12 <b1airo> i think it is OpenStack ID related, or at least was...
11:05:22 <martial_> just checked and it shows my name at the top, so yes it is
11:05:44 <martial_> OpenStack User Survey 2019 "Step 1 of 5 for Martial Michel"
11:06:07 <martial_> Therefore it updates your content
11:06:37 <martial_> (ot at least there is a way to do de-duplication)
11:07:06 <martial_> but survey away please :)
11:07:30 <martial_> #topic CFP for OpenInfra days Rome
11:07:49 <martial_> Perfect time zone for this one :)
11:08:05 <martial_> #link https://openinfraday.it/call-for-paper/
11:08:46 <martial_> "OpenInfra Day Italy 2019 will provide a 360-degrees view of Open Infrastructure – from computing, networking, and storage, through hands-on workshops and sessions focussing on real-world stories, more and more focusing on container orchestration and microservices architecture."
11:09:24 <martial_> two times, two locations: Milan october, 2nd 2019 – Rome october, 3rd 2019
11:10:18 <martial_> #topic Shangai Summit and PTG
11:10:26 <martial_> Adding this one to the list
11:10:57 <martial_> The Shanghai summit CFP is over, it was extended
11:11:24 <martial_> I hope everybody had a chance to submit their proposals
11:11:37 <belmoreira> o/
11:12:02 <dh3> good luck, sadly I spent my "foreign conference" budget already this year
11:12:25 <martial_> the Scientific SIG will be present with our usual two back to back sessions
11:12:49 <martial_> b1airo: coming to the summit?
11:13:26 <martial_> belmoreira: hopefully other opportunities will arise
11:13:42 <martial_> The Scientific SIG has also requested a presence at the PTG
11:14:19 <martial_> From 1/2 day to 1 day (filled the survey last night)
11:14:23 <janders> it was a great session in Denver. I'm not sure if I'll be in Shanghai at this stage, but would be very happy to do that again
11:15:30 <martial_> janders: if you are able to join us, please do so; because our role is much more outreach we tend to go to follow up sessions to understand how to best use novel technologies for our scientific workloads
11:15:52 <b1airo> don't think i'll make it i'm afraid, already two trips to the States on the horizon before December
11:16:08 <martial_> #topic SC19
11:16:41 <martial_> following up on our conferences, we need to submit the BoF shortly
11:17:03 <martial_> Kubecon is at the same time as SC19
11:17:25 <b1airo> which will you choose martial_ ?
11:17:28 <martial_> I will be at SC19
11:17:29 <b1airo> :-)
11:17:55 <martial_> My colleague Rion (who has been on a few of our panels) will be at Kubecon
11:17:58 <b1airo> Kubecon not Docker-y enough for you ;-)
11:18:27 <martial_> We are going to propose a BoF on cloud federation
11:18:41 <martial_> (also)
11:19:05 <martial_> as such my colleague Chris is the person that will be with us (if welcome)
11:19:18 <martial_> we started this conversation on the Scientific SIG Slack
11:19:37 <martial_> #topic Cloud Federation
11:19:45 <b1airo> ok, interesting, do you have a list of people interested in the federation bof yet?
11:20:20 <martial_> am going to make this a regular topic for the next couple months :)
11:21:08 <martial_> The work I have been participating on “Cloud Federation” is officially in public comment phase for publication as a NIST SP500
11:21:33 <martial_> #link https://www.nist.gov/programs-projects/nist-cloud-computing-program-nccp
11:22:01 <martial_> it is open until September
11:22:16 <martial_> (open for review that is)
11:22:36 <b1airo> does that provide a window for Summit feedback session on it?
11:23:15 <martial_> unfortunately no, which is why I want to talk about it at our meetings
11:23:29 <martial_> we will be talking about it at PEARC19
11:23:40 <martial_> (in a couple weeks)
11:24:14 <b1airo> ah yeah, i would have liked to head to PEARC, maybe next year
11:24:45 <martial_> so for people interested, this is the change to get your comments in on the efforts of federation
11:25:25 <martial_> note that this is a foundation document (reference architecture)
11:25:42 <b1airo> perhaps you can give us an overview of NIST SP500 in a future session here martial_ ?
11:25:42 <martial_> and that there is still a lot of work to be done :)
11:26:14 <martial_> I can, but I will invite my co-authors to join
11:26:26 <b1airo> sounds good
11:26:28 <martial_> so likely the session that works better in the pm :)
11:26:35 <martial_> (pm for me that is :) )
11:26:57 <b1airo> better for me - almost midnight here now
11:27:25 <martial_> #topic AOB
11:27:38 <martial_> ad lib time :)
11:28:04 <b1airo> i'm working on a little containerisation problem at the moment and wondering if people can help...
11:28:57 <dh3> if anyone has experience of instances spontaneously/persistently ending up kvm-paused I'd love to hear from you (pm/email) - not made much progress with Google or RH support
11:29:28 <janders> is temporary disk space depletion a possibility?
11:29:58 <dh3> I wondered that but the hypervisor has >200GB free so I don't *think* so
11:30:01 <b1airo> have a use-case for a client-server workflow that builds map cache layers hanging around a Postgres DB plus frontend webserver API, want to be able to fire the whole stack up on-demand within the HPC environment...
11:32:23 <b1airo> we've got a Docker container that has all the dependencies, and were thinking we could go from there to Singularity image
11:32:39 <martial_> have you looked at Sarus?
11:34:14 <martial_> looked like a very promising OCI compliant runtime
11:34:34 <b1airo> creating the image is easy enough, but naturally things like postgres and apache that have been installed into the image via apt would (IIUC) normally be started in Docker via `service start apache`, but those init.d service scripts try to do that via sudo...
11:35:24 <b1airo> yeah heard about Sarus at CUG, don't think it really adds much that would help in this use-case though
11:36:13 <dh3> running more than one process inside a container always seems to end up being fragile, would multiple-containers be acceptable?
11:37:12 <b1airo> dh3: yep, i suspect the "proper" way to do this might be multiple Singularity service "instances" of the same container
11:38:03 <b1airo> not sure how they work from inside a Slurm job yet though...
11:38:34 <dh3> my knee-jerk reaction is "wrapper script" but it's not terribly elegant
11:39:37 <b1airo> my main question is whether there are some standard practices for building containers that allow launching services without root escalation requirements
11:41:13 <b1airo> dh3: i think i've seen that pause issue at some point in the past, wondering if sw3 is around and has better memory than me
11:41:16 <dh3> do you mean, not-have-root when building the container? We haven't found a way round that (and suggest users do it in OpenStack where they do have root)
11:41:18 <martial_> you can create a local account on the container that matches the local user; only problem is that this needs to be done per user
11:41:55 <martial_> so a `docker build` per user
11:42:38 <martial_> so create the user last to be able to rely on the previous union layers
11:43:13 <b1airo> building isn't a problem, can do that on a local dev machine or via remote build service (and  with Singularity 3.3 there's new fakeroot functionality that enables rootless builds, albeit with a couple of caveats)
11:44:03 <dh3> fakeroot> good to know, ta
11:46:16 <b1airo> how does such a matching container-internal user help martial_ ?
11:50:55 <martial_> you were talking about root-less containers, I have a couple ubuntu based where you can sudo without a password but the container is run with a local user that matches the directory it is in
11:51:48 <martial_> not sure if it is the use case that you are envisioning
11:52:27 <b1airo> sounds like a potential avenue worth looking at
11:52:47 <b1airo> any Dockerfiles you can point me to?
11:53:54 <martial_> not public but the core component  you are looking for is
11:54:14 <martial_> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/uLdfgCPN/
11:54:22 <janders> I gotta run, I'll see you guys later. Till next time!
11:54:40 <martial_> that users get access to the webcam too
11:55:36 <b1airo> do i smell a deep learning inference application? :-)
11:55:47 <martial_> you can specifiy the uid and gid as needed by adapting it
11:56:31 <martial_> and using `ARG`
11:56:49 <martial_> OpenCV / Tensorflow application
11:57:01 <b1airo> great, thanks martial_ , will see how we go
11:57:41 <martial_> #link https://github.com/datamachines/cuda_tensorflow_opencv
11:57:52 <martial_> built `FROM` that
11:58:47 <b1airo> ok, time to wrap up and sleep
11:58:55 <b1airo> till next time!
11:59:12 <dh3> thanks, bye!
11:59:22 <martial_> #endmeeting