21:00:31 <oneswig> #startmeeting scientific-sig
21:00:32 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Nov 12 21:00:31 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:33 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:00:35 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig'
21:00:42 <oneswig> greetings!
21:00:43 <martial> woohoo!
21:00:47 <rbudden> hello!
21:00:52 <martial> (rumble rumble)
21:01:42 <oneswig> #link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_SIG#IRC_Meeting_November_12th_2019
21:01:45 <oneswig> #chair martial
21:01:46 <openstack> Current chairs: martial oneswig
21:01:47 <oneswig> hey martial
21:02:07 <oneswig> How's things y'all?
21:02:29 <martial> things are good, busy :)
21:02:45 <martial> and getting ready SC19-rumble too !
21:03:02 <oneswig> awesome.  What day is the BoF again?
21:03:04 <rbudden> doing alright. busy. trying to the flu my son has attempted to bring back from daycare a second time ;) SC19 ahead!
21:03:13 <rbudden> *to avoid*
21:03:20 <martial> Tuesday?
21:03:40 <oneswig> *I'm prepared, honestly*
21:03:56 <rbudden> Wed 5:15pm
21:04:12 <martial> so, Stig, back from China ... how was it?
21:04:28 <oneswig> It was an interesting one.  Quite a clash of culturs.
21:04:59 <oneswig> Some oddly officious stuff - to get into the conference each day, passports and bag x-ray, like going through an airport.
21:05:39 <oneswig> The dual-language schedule worked sometimes, people made effort to make it work.
21:06:45 <martial> dual-language?
21:07:02 <martial> oh wow did not realize it was going to be that different
21:07:22 <rbudden> yeah, i didn’t hear about that
21:07:24 <rbudden> how’d that work?
21:07:28 <oneswig> One of the Chinese language keynote speakers appeared to have an interesting take on the benefits of open source to the Chinese nation
21:07:49 <martial> such as?
21:07:57 <oneswig> The plenary sessions had translators.  Everything else, you made a guess about what language it was going to be in.
21:07:59 <martial> or should I not ask?
21:08:40 <oneswig> There was a talk in chinese that I couldn't follow and wish I could have, on Tik-Tok (the video sharing site), and how they are using mlnx offloads.
21:09:52 <oneswig> Did you see the graphic Marco Passerini shared on the leading vendors for OpenStack deployments?
21:11:01 <oneswig> martial: live translation worked well enough.  Some amusing mis-translations (eg "bare metal" -> "naked machines")
21:11:05 <martial> what was the link?
21:11:17 <martial> funny indeed:)
21:11:25 <rbudden> lol
21:11:34 <oneswig> It was on slack earlier, don't have it to hand
21:12:07 <oneswig> Overall numbers were about the same as Denver I think
21:13:00 <oneswig> I think there was potential for much higher numbers (OpenStack days in Chinese cities are bigger than that), it'll be an interesting discussion point in the wash-up from this summit
21:14:00 <martial> seems a little sad given how many of the usual crowd was unable to attend
21:14:05 <martial> where is the next one?
21:14:22 <oneswig> There was a frequent theme in the talks, where one presenter would say "my colleagues couldn't join me because..."
21:14:39 <oneswig> Next event's Vancouver again, but a tech summit without marketplace.
21:14:53 <rbudden> oh wow, Vancouver again
21:14:59 <martial> Vancouver is a good one
21:14:59 <oneswig> I think then Europe again around this time next year
21:15:12 <jmlowe> Wait, did the next summit get announced?
21:15:28 <jmlowe> sorry, almost missed the meeting due to daylight savings change
21:15:35 <oneswig> Kind of.  I missed the announcement because the keynotes overran and I wanted to go to some forum sessions.
21:15:41 <oneswig> Hi jmlowe, no worries.
21:16:02 <jmlowe> Looking forward to seeing a number of you next week
21:16:24 <oneswig> I haven't seen the plan for next year online anywhere
21:17:02 <oneswig> jmlowe: me too.  Didn't have a ticket for a bit earlier this week, which was... interesting.  I think I never got the mails from spargo with the ticket details.
21:17:07 <oneswig> I have it now.
21:17:30 <oneswig> martial: do you use Grafana?
21:17:44 <oneswig> Is it part of a Data Machines product?
21:18:24 <martial> it is part of the tool set we have indeed
21:19:24 <martial> also prometheus
21:19:25 <oneswig> There was some concern in the corridors about changes to the t&cs here https://grafana.com/trademark-policy/ which mean products incorporating grafana now require the written permission of grafana labs.
21:19:54 <martial> oh weird
21:20:19 <oneswig> indeed, weird.  We don't make a product so the details somewhat passed me by.
21:20:22 <martial> how do you define "incorporating"? ... started as part of a docker-compose?
21:21:02 <oneswig> I would have thought more generally than that. If it's installed as part of something you sell.
21:21:46 <martial> we do not sell products per say so still kind of hard to "grasp" but thanks will pass the info along
21:21:51 <martial> was Blair there with you?
21:22:25 <oneswig> No, not this time.  Sam Morrison and Andy Botting were holding the fort for the antipodeans, did a great job.
21:24:25 <oneswig> The major disappointment for the SIG was the scheduling of SIG time.  It was a table in the PTG, which meant there weren't many operators around.  But also, there were almost no locals in the PTG.  And there wasn't a cross-project time when (eg) the Ironic cores could come along and join in.
21:24:52 <oneswig> As a result, there were ~4 of us compared with ~100 on a good summit.
21:26:47 <jmlowe> It's so much easier for a number of us to go to, well, anywhere but China
21:27:22 <oneswig> jmlowe: yeah, that was a running theme.
21:27:51 <rbudden> heh
21:28:10 <martial> still a bummer
21:29:00 <trandles> Hi folks
21:29:06 <oneswig> I hope the foundation managed to stir up some interest in the open source community among the locals, but it did look like a cultural divide.
21:29:18 <oneswig> hi trandles, just in time :-)
21:29:52 <trandles> Sorry, home sick today and lost track of the time
21:30:07 <oneswig> get well soon, you've got a flight to catch
21:30:28 <trandles> Lol yeah...started on Friday, yesterday was rough but I'm over the hump I think. Should be in the office tomorrow.
21:31:06 <trandles> Reading back...I haven't seen any formal announcement on upcoming summits, but Vancouver would be good.
21:31:46 <trandles> Did anyone (other than Tim Bell) notice that neutron is talking about deprecating linuxbridge support? I know some of this community, including CERN, was using it everywhere.
21:32:01 <oneswig> yes I saw that and am surprised by it.
21:32:21 <oneswig> I think it's still the simplest and fastest of the software bridges.
21:32:44 <trandles> Definitely the simplest. Has OVS performance ever caught up?
21:32:49 <oneswig> No.
21:32:57 <oneswig> At least, it hadn't last week when we last tried it.
21:33:09 <rbudden> This surprises me. It’s definitely the simplest.
21:33:22 <oneswig> Actually, correction, that was OVS vs Tungsten Fabric
21:33:26 <trandles> hrm...maybe this SIG needs to speak up then
21:33:39 <oneswig> jmlowe: you still using it at large scale?
21:33:49 <rbudden> Though OVS had a decent set of tools for debugging, etc that was nice
21:34:11 <jmlowe> I also picked up a pre SC cold on Friday
21:34:16 <trandles> One of the reasons they cite is feature set falling behind other solutions. Conversely, the simplicity is nice when you care about raw performance.
21:34:47 <jmlowe> I'm not happy about this linuxbridge deprecation
21:34:54 <oneswig> trandles: +1 for me
21:35:12 <jmlowe> I'm still using linuxbridge at least through 2020
21:35:29 <oneswig> I think the issue is nobody's stepping in to look after it with the Neutron project.
21:35:53 <oneswig> Those people are I expect all paid to work on shiny stuff.
21:37:30 <jmlowe> oneswig : ever test the performance of ovs vs ovn?
21:37:42 <oneswig> Funny you should ask.
21:38:10 <oneswig> I benchmarked it for Sydney - 2 years ago - using 100G CX5 NICs
21:38:17 <oneswig> 1 sec
21:39:28 <jmlowe> for bonus points ever try the ovs offload in connect-x cards?
21:40:10 <oneswig> yes it's brilliant, like flossing with dynamite
21:40:20 <oneswig> occasionally, it blows up :-)
21:40:56 <martial> oh well the advantage of having disposable hardware :)
21:41:17 <oneswig> Just uploading the presentation somewhere.
21:41:36 <trandles> oneswig, saw the foundation announcement, congrats
21:42:48 <oneswig> trandles: thanks :-)
21:42:49 <rbudden> ?
21:42:55 <rbudden> i think i missed the memo
21:42:55 <oneswig> Here's the slides http://www.stackhpc.com/resources/5-ways-with-hypervisor-networking.pdf
21:43:26 <oneswig> rbudden: we got ourselves on the marketplace and joined the foundation, that's all :-)
21:43:35 <rbudden> oh nice :)
21:43:39 <jmlowe> on the upside I did see that sriov live migration is a thing in train
21:44:15 <oneswig> jmlowe: I believe so, with Netronome smart NICs
21:44:52 <jmlowe> bah, I didn't see that qualifier
21:44:57 <oneswig> On that presentation linked above, there's OVN vs OVS vs LinuxBridge vs SR-IOV vs ASAP2 - look for a slide titled "TPC/IP performance - iperf"
21:45:40 <oneswig> NB We tested OVN again last week and it was better than this but still not the quickest thing out there.
21:49:07 <oneswig> Actually, I hear the hardware OVS offload is a good deal more mature now and in production at large scale.
21:51:09 <jmlowe> looks like ASAP2 might be a real contender
21:53:27 <oneswig> I think so, potentially.  It would be good to see how performance degrades with increasing numbers of flows but at any level it will beat a software switch by a huge margin.
21:53:49 <oneswig> We should talk SC
21:54:11 <oneswig> Any good schedule picks?
21:54:47 <jmlowe> Well there's this workshop Monday morning
21:55:15 <martial> which one is that?
21:55:28 <martial> Monday afternoon is CANOPIE
21:56:09 <martial> on Sunday I will be at "The Next Platform" event
21:56:50 <martial> ah bummer, Monday is also the "NVIDIA 2019 Special Address"
21:57:43 <oneswig> I'll be keeping an eye out for AMD GPU performance comparisons.
21:58:45 <oneswig> Where's the best barbecue?
21:59:52 <oneswig> Nearly time to close, alas
21:59:55 <rbudden> no idea, but we know the Ramen spot if you’re interested ;)
22:00:28 <oneswig> I'll be at Sams #3, the diner
22:00:38 <oneswig> OK y'all time to stop.
22:00:49 <oneswig> #endmeeting