09:00:49 #startmeeting scientific-wg 09:00:50 Meeting started Wed Aug 31 09:00:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 09:00:51 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 09:00:53 The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' 09:01:04 Greetings all 09:01:05 hello there! 09:01:10 Hello o/ 09:01:23 Hi o/ 09:01:29 #link today's agenda (such as it is) is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group 09:02:15 Blair has been in touch, he's just returning from holidays, might be able to join us later 09:02:42 Before we begin, any items to add? 09:03:26 I had one - the CFP for HPCloudSys 2016 in Luxembourg closes this week 09:03:49 #link HPCloudSys2016 is here http://2016cloudcom.ux.uis.no/conf/workshops/hpcloudsys.html 09:04:36 OK #topic Summit Scientific OpenStack guide 09:04:50 Flanders from the Foundation was in touch with an outreachy idea 09:05:18 To scan the schedule and pick out some topics WG members and scientific compute uses in general might be interested in 09:05:49 That's a very good idea! I haven't gone through the schedule yet 09:05:52 Then generate a SuperUser article and/or mailing of those 09:06:00 priteau: me neither! 09:06:32 #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/categories/ - schedule's somewhere off this page 09:07:09 In the course of this meeting, can we browse and pick out items of interest 09:07:57 the URL says "austin", but changing it to barcelona only changes the header 09:08:03 the rest of the content is the same 09:08:42 Good grief, you're right! 09:08:45 ooops 09:08:49 #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/ Barcelona summit schedule 09:09:47 #link GlusterFS in OpenStack "In this presentation we will talk about the journey we are still on in finding the best fit for a file system inside a large fully-orchestrated cloud application stack" https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15987/clustered-file-systems-in-your-application-stack 09:11:42 wow, that looks interesting to us 09:11:50 I’ll tell our people to drop by :-) 09:12:01 #link We have an interest in using Monasca for high performance telemetry, might like to sit in on this one https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15166/monasca-one-year-later 09:14:02 If anyone sees a talk they'd find interesting for research computing, please chip in! 09:15:00 #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/full/ Full Barcelona summit schedule on a single page 09:15:01 #link realistically I think I'll learn a lot from "BrokenStack: failure stories" https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15448/brokenstack-openstack-failure-stories 09:16:12 lol 09:16:30 there are 5 talks with HPC in the title 09:16:51 #link A talk from CERN is always interesting and networking is something they've historically struggled with, it'll be interesting to see their solution https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15865/neutron-at-cern-moving-thousands-of-production-nodes-from-nova-network 09:17:14 priteau: any picks from those? 09:18:01 #link Image is Everything: Dynamic HPC VM Repositories using Murano https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/16161 09:18:29 #link Neutron and SLURM: Software-defined Networking for HPC Clusters https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15454 09:18:53 #link “Spartan”, a HPC - Cloud Hybrid: Delivering Performance and Flexibility https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/16540 09:18:57 all of them really :-) 09:19:07 Nice! 09:19:27 blair's talk too of course 09:20:22 #link Blair's talk on Lustre https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/16548/lustre-integration-for-hpc-on-openstack-at-cambridge-and-monash 09:20:40 Any more suggestions? 09:20:44 #link HPC, Unikernels and OpenStack https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15879 09:21:08 priteau: that's one I'm particularly interested in, thanks for reminding! 09:21:39 OK, keep browsing, lets move the topic on 09:21:56 #topic OpenStack / HPC white papers 09:22:17 So over the summer I've been gathering research on five white paper topics on OpenStack and HPC 09:22:34 Three are now in draft form (phew), one's half way and one's not started yet. 09:23:14 What I'm looking for is subject matter experts on the various topics 09:23:33 The two remaining are bare metal infrastructure and high performance data 09:23:53 priteau: you wouldn't happen to know anyone who works on a bare metal infrastructure system would you ? :-) 09:25:06 oneswig: I contacted one of our Chameleon users who did a performance comparison of bare-metal vs KVM vs Docker, but no answer :( 09:25:40 priteau: that's OK I think I have enough on overhead, including your previous introductions. 09:25:52 #link HPC and the overhead of virtualisation https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xJJKPltk-ScA4uKrPVnIAHQRptzgViJNMq1kNLWAQTE/edit?usp=sharing 09:25:52 I would be happy to be a reviewer on the bare-metal topic 09:26:21 #link OpenStack and HPC network fabrics https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d2nOxPQPARNhmnc0hXBIMW9c_bjDyaUkUZAzMBNPfEA/edit?usp=sharing 09:26:43 #link OpenStack and HPC workload management https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dbN6HRWQuuETqPIw5qYM8Ya6f3RD1WNbGr_hg2CyHPw/edit?usp=sharing 09:27:05 I’m afraid we can’t help you on this, guys 09:27:09 priteau: thanks, appreciate that. Can we make Chameleon into a case study on that? 09:27:10 * dariov feeling a little bit useless 09:28:13 dariov: the articles I'm hoping are useful for people who know about HPC but want to learn more about how it fits into OpenStack. That's the target audience 09:28:20 oneswig: If Chameleon fits your requirements for this white paper, I would be happy to! 09:28:42 priteau: Great, thanks. I'll get my act together and be in touch... 09:29:12 I wasn't sure if the testbed itself was a good fit (rather than the research users do with), since it is a very specific use case 09:29:26 I guess it will be clearer once I have read your drafts 09:29:57 priteau: Well it is but what I've been looking for is some diversity between the data points, and you're not Bridges and you're not Aurora so that's even better :-) 09:30:06 oneswig, then I’m your perfect guinea pig 09:30:36 dariov: any input is gratefully appreciated, thank you 09:31:15 Move on? 09:31:51 #topic Working group activities at Barcelona 09:32:29 Somebody last week suggested the WG meeting might work well with a poster session. 09:32:47 I think this is a good idea, especially if we get a good number 09:32:59 The concern there being it's a bit late to put something together 09:33:07 Any thoughts on this? 09:34:36 Perhaps it is one to consider for a future summit to enable some forward planning 09:35:38 How many people would a call for posters reach? 09:36:17 priteau: I am not sure. I have ~200 mails in my address book, could spam them (and annoy people) 09:36:26 I'd prefer not to 09:36:57 We could try academic mailing lists as well. But you're right that is it quite late notice 09:37:27 It works for people who have posters from other conferences 09:37:59 Another idea is to do something like the brown bag talks - lightning talks from WG members 09:38:38 An ideal situation would be to have two adjoining rooms, some refreshments and a mix of the two formats 09:39:51 lightning talks may be easier to organize and get people to present 09:40:05 I'll see what can be arranged - space is tight in the venue. They might even prefer two smaller rooms to one big one. 09:40:15 Thanks priteau good point 09:41:13 After the success in Austin there's also discussion of a WG social one evening. Probably the Thursday when I understand nothing official is planned 09:42:00 Does anyone know Barcelona at all and can suggest a venue? 09:42:34 A friend of mine, formerly at Barcelona Supercomputer Center, suggested a few places they sometimes used 09:42:48 sorry, I have never been to Barcelona 09:44:42 #link cute website, doesn't look vegetarian friendly http://www.asadordearanda.net 09:45:35 Was there anything further on summit activities? 09:45:58 #topic Any Other Business 09:46:14 What has been missed? 09:46:33 oneswig: I wanted to ask, do you have any more information about the OpenStack HPC meetup you mentioned the other day? 09:46:49 Is it part of http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-London/ 09:47:07 The meetup in London, I followed up on it a few days ago and they couldn't get a venue so it has been postponed 09:47:09 Alas 09:47:24 thanks, I'd forgotten about that 09:47:33 Removing it from my calendar 09:47:56 hi folks, finally made it 09:48:03 bit of a marathon this evening 09:48:05 Are you going to OpenStack Day UK? 09:48:10 Hi b1airo, welcome back? 09:48:20 (I mean !) 09:48:28 thanks oneswig :-) 09:49:06 We were just on AOB - I think we are pretty much done for the week 09:49:11 oneswig, is the “Cambridge meetup” thing still in the pipe? 09:49:34 oneswig: I would like to go but I need to check if I can. Is the speaker line-up complete? 09:49:35 any big news i missed discussing? 09:49:47 dariov: Good point, we had to defer over the summer on account of all those bl**dy holidays, lets pick up again 09:49:48 (I’m off for 3 weeks now, but something is October should be good) 09:49:57 dariov: b*gger, it rolls on 09:50:03 October it is 09:50:13 i haven't yet reviewed the full summit agenda but looking forward to seeing what you all thought was good 09:50:16 yup, my boss here is keen in hosting, if needed 09:50:24 b1airo: We need links into the schedule to recommend 09:50:39 dariov: great, I love a field trip 09:50:52 oneswig, cool 09:51:10 I’ll be “back in the office” on the 20th of September 09:51:16 ok, i'll try to make sure i get to looking at it soon before work people realise i'm back from leave 09:51:50 we can try to find a date in october 09:51:56 else it'll end up being the usual JITSS (just in time summit schedule) 09:51:57 dariov: when are you finishing before your holiday? Might be good to get something in advance 09:52:06 possibly after the 10th, we have a deadline on that day 09:52:27 b1airo: I usually find the events I'm most interested in slightly after they've finished 09:52:30 in until friday, but I should be able to respond to email anyway, just slowish 09:52:44 dariov: OK lets follow up offline 09:53:13 oneswig, ok 09:53:50 Anything else to raise? 09:54:04 Oh, I had one item 09:54:20 What is considered to be decent TCP bandwidth over VXLAN? 09:54:40 ah, still having issues there? 09:55:01 We have 50G Ethernet NICs. With SR-IOV we get > 20GBits/s. With VXLAN, at best 1.6 GBits/s 09:55:32 Still having issues, going for a webex later 09:56:06 But I wanted to find out how many orders of magnitude out we are... 09:56:56 oneswig: I suppose that you've checked the MTU size? 09:57:00 sounds like you're 10+ times slower than expected 09:57:29 It's standard MTU in this case, 1400 bytes after encapsulation. Not sure we can realistically change that for these networks 09:57:53 but is the VM configured to have a smaller MTU? 09:57:55 than 1500 09:58:10 priteau: i think they are benchmarking on a tight cluster LAN so MTU *shouldn't* be a major factor (still a factor, but not orders of magnitude) 09:58:15 priteau: correct, it gets trimmed down 09:58:28 because of the VXLAN encapsulation inside UDP, if the VM uses 1500 it would cause fragmentation 09:58:34 oneswig: have you seen the MLNX numbers here: https://www.mellanox.com/related-docs/whitepapers/CB_Mellanox_Ethernet_NIC_Advantage.pdf 09:58:58 ah yes good priteau 09:59:01 *good point 09:59:13 b1airo: thanks, I shall got to the webex with those numbers... 10:00:19 OK - I think we must wrap up 10:00:26 Thanks all 10:01:03 I'll gather together the schedule picks and follow up 10:01:13 #endmeeting