21:01:47 <martial> #startmeeting scientific-wg
21:01:48 <openstack> Meeting started Tue May 30 21:01:47 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is martial. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:01:49 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:01:51 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'
21:01:59 <martial> #topic Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack
21:02:02 <priteau> better :-)
21:02:03 <martial> #chair oneswig
21:02:03 <openstack> Current chairs: martial oneswig
21:02:05 <oneswig> And now for something completely different! :-)
21:02:10 <martial> Ni
21:02:10 <trandles> haha
21:02:15 <oneswig> too good!
21:02:26 <oneswig> #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_May_30th_2017
21:02:33 <oneswig> OK, lets get this show on the road.
21:02:44 <oneswig> Blair sends apologies - he is in flight
21:03:55 <martial> #topic Scientific datasets blog from SWITCH
21:04:12 <martial> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-May/002051.html#
21:04:28 <martial> so switch people?
21:04:32 <oneswig> right - this was a blog post by Saverio from SWITCH
21:04:41 <oneswig> it's late night for them.
21:04:58 <oneswig> I put it on the agenda because I thought it might interest some people (including me)
21:05:10 <martial> #link https://cloudblog.switch.ch/2017/05/22/hosting-and-computing-public-scientific-datasets-in-the-cloud/
21:05:18 <martial> #topic Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack
21:05:41 <martial> do we have anybody else able to contribute such user stories
21:05:43 <martial> ?
21:06:31 <oneswig> I've not previously used Zenodo
21:06:53 <trandles> we've been talking about public datasets in the cloud internally but that's as far along as we are
21:06:58 <oneswig> How do we check a paper is appropriate for sharing?
21:10:56 <martial> I would guess it has to do with the use of the dataset
21:11:04 <TheMistyMay> hello!
21:11:08 <martial> is it public, can it be used, etc ...
21:11:17 <oneswig> Hello TheMistyMay, welcome
21:12:00 <martial> as for the paper, "user stories" might also be good ways for people to share technology work / success they are having
21:12:13 <martial> maybe we ought to have those peer reviewed
21:12:41 <martial> the plan is still to have those added to a possible v2 of the book?
21:12:53 <oneswig> martial: for sure, user stories is another level.  The papers I've seen up on Zenodo are more academic in style
21:13:16 <oneswig> martial: I'd like to collect user stories, each being approximately a chapter in scope.
21:13:39 <oneswig> eg, identity federation (the current work in 'progress' - although I blush to call it that)
21:14:00 <martial> how long are we talking about here?
21:14:50 <martial> Mike (TheMistyMay) made a demo at the lighting talks, would a 3-4 pages description of why/how/links be a good user story for example?
21:14:51 <oneswig> martial: no fixed constraint but a working rule of thumb was about 8 pages (plus some images) in a google doc...
21:15:48 <oneswig> That sounds good, but the other sections bring in ~3 related user stories into a common theme - what was the demo on Mike?
21:15:54 <TheMistyMay> I'd be happy to write something up as a "Helping to Prevent Bit Rot" in the style of a user story
21:16:56 <oneswig> #link existing work for Scientific WG study here: https://github.com/openstack/scientific-wg/tree/master/doc/source
21:17:07 <TheMistyMay> It was a demo of CI/CD build base images for openstack (and other common IaaS). As well as an nginx reverse proxy plugin that took care of authentication so researchers (users) didn't have to worry about edge security.
21:18:00 <martial> that actually sounds pretty cool to me
21:19:22 <oneswig> That might be a useful contribution on a wider section on how people go about doing research computing development on cloud - what people sometimes call "ResOps"?
21:19:53 <martial> oneswig: too early for me and Dmoni and such ... a public beta planned for a couple of weeks from now
21:20:46 <oneswig> What's interesting to me is that there isn't really an analogy to working at the system image level on conventional infrastructure.  It's a new level of freedom - conversely a new level of burden :-)
21:21:42 <oneswig> martial: plenty of time for that though, right?  I think we are targeting November...
21:22:22 <martial> oneswig: I know but a user story based on it would be great
21:23:27 <martial> (ie will make it happen after we introduce it here)
21:24:45 <oneswig> Mail just in from Lauren Sell - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-May/002091.html
21:25:13 <oneswig> Should we have people's video picks of outstanding talks they saw in Boston?
21:25:45 <martial> that sounds like a good idea to me
21:25:57 <oneswig> #topic summit video picks
21:26:04 <martial> (remembering the presentation name is going to be the tricky part)
21:28:54 <oneswig> #link Manila, CephFS at CERN - watched this video, it's quite similar to some things we are doing, was intrigued by the question at the end on RDMA (thought that was not active) https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/manila-on-cephfs-at-cern-the-short-way-to-production
21:29:11 <martial> #link Container as a Service on GPU Cloud: Our Decision Among K8s, Mesos, Docker Swarm, and OpenStack Zun https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/container-as-a-service-on-gpu-cloud-our-decision-among-k8s-mesos-docker-swarm-and-openstack-zun
21:29:49 <oneswig> One thing that we are stuck on is that there's no Manila equivalent of provider networks - 'provider filesystems' if you will - I want to manage access to existing filesystems, which can be big and long-lived
21:30:19 <trandles> oneswig: +1 on 'provider filesystems'
21:30:20 <priteau> +1 for the CephFS talk at CERN, that was a good one
21:30:51 <martial> #link OpenStack + OpenHPC = HPC Cloud https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/openstack-openhpc-hpc-cloud
21:31:27 <oneswig> Cool - something we are interested in too!
21:31:52 <Georgem_> https://youtu.be/EhrXALI_I-Y
21:32:07 <trandles> What's the deadline on providing some input on videos?  I haven't even had a chance to start through my watch list. :(
21:32:15 <oneswig> That you George? :-)
21:32:26 <Georgem_> Yeap
21:32:42 <Georgem_> On the train, poor connection:(
21:33:47 <oneswig> trandles: lets scrape these links and keep going via openstack-operators in the next few days
21:34:14 <oneswig> I haven't had a good look through myself yet, not even made it through the HPC/Research track
21:34:30 <trandles> Ok.  I'll try to provide some feedback by the end of the week.
21:34:36 <martial> #link The U.S. Army Cyber School OpenStack Use Case: Saving Millions and Making Changes for the Benefit of National Defense https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/the-u-s-army-cyber-school-openstack-use-case-saving-millions-and-making-changes-for-the-benefit-of-national-defense
21:35:17 <martial> (that last one was very interesting, an extension of the keynote presentation)
21:35:32 <oneswig> I love the fact they are presenting in uniform!
21:36:07 <TheMistyMay> fun fact: cyber schools architecture was build around a deployable mobile cloud architecture that was mission oriented
21:36:54 <martial> #link Towards a Platform for Science - Initial Lessons from the Science Accelerator Platform at LBL https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/towards-a-platform-for-science-initial-lessons-from-the-science-accelerator-platform-at-lbl
21:38:29 <martial> that's it for me for now
21:39:21 <oneswig> martial: How was the Cyborg talk in the end - I know that's one you're interested in
21:39:45 <martial> oneswig: it was very interesting and a good introduction for people to join the team
21:39:54 <priteau> I haven't watched it yet, but there was another CERN presentation, about containers
21:39:57 <priteau> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOh0dwPGeSM
21:40:29 <martial> but my colleague goldenfri is on the team for the presentation, so I will let him talk about it
21:41:16 <oneswig> priteau: very interested in new work from CERN OpenLab
21:42:08 <martial> #link OpenStack Acceleration Service: Introduction of Cyborg Project https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/openstack-acceleration-service-introduction-of-cyborg-project
21:44:16 <oneswig> OK, I'll collect these together and follow up to the list, we'll get a thread going there
21:44:27 <martial> sounds like a good plan
21:44:35 <martial> #topic Working Group activities for the new release cycle
21:45:44 <oneswig> There's definite interest in updating and extending the studies done so far.
21:46:54 <martial> stig: extending those would make a lot of sense I agree
21:47:28 <oneswig> What's bugging everyone else?
21:48:34 <martial> stig: as you know, I want to make our set of tools open to the SWG for testing, and hopefully have a stable version for the next in person meeting in November
21:49:11 <martial> My team and I will welcome comments, recommendations and bug reports (and fixes :) )
21:49:32 <oneswig> martial: good for you, sounds like a very worthwhile contribution
21:49:46 <oneswig> You think it'll be public in a couple of weeks?
21:50:00 <martial> we are packaging it internally as an alpha
21:50:07 <trandles> bare metal is still bugging me and it looks like progress is being made on that front
21:50:23 <trandles> if that's the case I'll be happy to show off our use case in November
21:50:29 <trandles> but it's nothing new for the WG I'm afraid
21:50:41 <martial> going to try to have a few people to use it, comment on the "docs" ... we all know we write our docs for people who already know how to use it
21:51:16 <martial> then release a beta on github
21:51:35 <martial> tim: although it is not new, it is still relevant
21:51:37 <oneswig> trandles: one area I am hopeful for progress is in the new roles in the Ironic state machine and how that might enable us (with the new Nova scheduler capabilities) to find a more elegant way of reprogramming BIOS and RAID for bare metal instances
21:52:07 <martial> tim: looking forward to progress or best case definition
21:53:08 <oneswig> I think Mike Lowe was interested in continuing the project on handling datasets
21:54:51 <martial> stig: I think this is correct
21:55:55 <martial> does not seem there is much to be discussed today
21:56:07 <martial> #topic Any other business
21:56:17 <martial> open floor...
21:56:24 <trandles> sorry I'm being pulled in two directions at the moment so only about 50% present here
21:57:07 <martial> tim: no worries, we understand. Feel free to follow up if you are able to
21:57:07 <oneswig> Anyone using CephFS in bare metal?  We've got curious problems with metadata latency
21:57:25 <trandles> in fact, I have to run...  I'll follow up on the mailing list thread with video feedback
21:57:28 <oneswig> bandwidth is good but directory operations really seem to hurt
21:57:29 <trandles> later!
21:57:33 <oneswig> see you trandles
21:58:26 <oneswig> I think I've got a blog article to make on it, but only if I can find an answer...
21:59:22 <themisty_> We're experimenting with bare metal Ceph too
21:59:55 <oneswig> themisty_: cool - lets keep in touch - #scientific-wg is the place to be :-)
22:00:09 <themisty_> :) I plan to try and be around more
22:00:21 <oneswig> I leave you with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMwP7nEuDGA
22:01:00 <martial> sweeeet
22:01:15 <oneswig> OK folks, got to pop
22:01:21 <oneswig> until next week
22:01:28 <oneswig> #endmeeting