13:00:29 <Qiming> #startmeeting senlin 13:00:30 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Jun 16 13:00:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:00:31 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 13:00:34 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' 13:00:50 <Qiming> #topic roll call 13:01:16 <lkarm> o/ 13:01:17 <janonymous_> o/ 13:01:21 <haiwei> hi 13:01:33 <janonymous_> Jaivish Kothari 13:01:38 <Qiming> don't think a lot of us will show up, this is the first meeting for senlin anyway 13:02:22 <Qiming> #topic get to know each other 13:02:24 <haiwei> at least four :) 13:03:10 <Qiming> I'm expecting everyone to say a few words about yourself 13:03:32 <haiwei> ok, I am xuhaiwei from NEC, nice to meet you 13:03:38 <haiwei> I am in Tokyo 13:03:43 <Qiming> so people get to know your name, where you are located, and your expertise, etc 13:04:02 <janonymous_> Hi i am Jaivish from NEC :) india 13:04:25 <lkarm> Hi, i'm Lisa from IBM in Austin, TX 13:04:30 <Qiming> Qiming Teng, with IBM Research, in China 13:05:38 <haiwei> currently four of us? 13:06:20 <janonymous_> I normally work in swift , keystone and ceilometer . 13:06:32 <Qiming> anyone else? 13:06:55 <haiwei> janonymous, you are in India office? 13:06:58 <Qiming> cool, not a big team so far 13:07:07 <Qiming> let's move on 13:07:14 <Qiming> #topic project status report 13:07:44 <Qiming> Senlin was started last December, positioned as a generic clustering service for OpenStack 13:08:03 <Qiming> the project is now located on stackforge, with both server side and client side code 13:08:30 <Qiming> we have presented the design in the Heat design summit, because we were deeply rooted from Heat 13:08:54 <janonymous_> haiwei : yes . 13:09:03 <Qiming> the top priority for the project for the first release (Liberty) would be making autoscaling work 13:09:21 <Qiming> and hopefully, bridge the Heat support to autoscaling to Senlin 13:09:39 <haiwei> Qiming, so how far are we there? 13:09:44 <Qiming> there are a lot of work to do for us to achieve that goal 13:10:17 <Qiming> to support autoscaling, we are developing a scaling policy spec and the supporting plugin 13:10:32 <Qiming> hopefully, that will be done by Liberty-2 13:11:12 <janonymous_> Yes i am ready to work hard . but i could only work after my office hours because it's my priority :) . will that be ok? 13:11:15 <Qiming> I have to say, it is not a trivial thing, considering that we may need to explore message queue service (zaqar) some time 13:11:35 <Qiming> sure 13:11:48 <Qiming> any kinds of contributions are welcomed, sir 13:11:48 <janonymous_> Thanks :) 13:12:05 <Qiming> time for you to pour questions on me 13:12:43 <haiwei> what about the short time goal? 13:12:50 <haiwei> short-term 13:13:26 <Qiming> supporting autoscaling is pretty short-term a goal 13:13:27 <janonymous_> Sorry to say but i want to know about senlin , i have very little idea about it. 13:13:43 <Qiming> janonymous_, don't worry 13:13:56 <Qiming> we are working hard to add some documents for developers 13:14:04 <Qiming> for example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190447/ 13:14:42 <Qiming> you can find us on the #senlin channel most of the time, just jump in and ask questions 13:15:15 <janonymous_> Yes sure sir. is there a mailing list , group for serlin also ? 13:15:19 <haiwei> Qiming, what is not done to support auto-scaling 13:15:36 <Qiming> haiwei, the scaling policy is not done 13:15:49 <Qiming> we have some dependencies on python-openstacksdk project 13:15:57 <lkarm> Just to understand where this is going, once senlin has the scaling policies implemented, the idea is to have something like OS::Senlin::Cluster OS::Senlin::Policy in a heat template to do autoscaling through heat? But then you can also do autoscaling without heat at all right? 13:16:07 <Qiming> we need to push some patches there first 13:16:31 <Qiming> lkarm, right 13:17:12 <Qiming> If you are using Heat for autoscaling, we don't want to break you 13:17:45 <Qiming> however, Senlin has its own APIs and client, that means you can do autoscaling in other ways as well 13:18:00 <lkarm> are you planning on implementing scaling policies in a similar way heat implemented them? 13:18:47 <Qiming> lkarm, yes and no, from user's perspective, we hope we can support their existing autoscaling templates 13:19:15 <Qiming> but implementation perspective, there will be quite some differences 13:19:38 <Qiming> for example, we don't want users to specify alarms, at least that is our current idea 13:20:18 <Qiming> you can check the senlin/examples/policies subdirectory to see how scaling policies will look like 13:20:23 <lkarm> by that you mean no ceilometer dependencies required to do autoscaling? 13:20:49 <Qiming> lkarm, the dependency may exist, but won't be hard-coded 13:21:26 <Qiming> we plan to provide users a choice, use ceilometer, monasca, or whatever 3rd-party monitoring tools 13:22:23 <Qiming> there are plenty of details to be discussed 13:22:51 <Qiming> What I want to say in this meeting is that we need to make all of them a team decision 13:23:39 <Qiming> scaling policy is just one type of policies to be supported, for example 13:24:02 <Qiming> we want to support placement policies, deletion policies, update policies, etc 13:24:31 <Qiming> these policies are all plugins that you can instantiate and attach to a cluster 13:24:42 <Qiming> we believe they are orthogonal to each other 13:25:32 <Qiming> we also plan to submit a talk proposal for the coming Tokyo summit, give the community a deep dive and status update 13:25:58 <Qiming> there have been some requests for Senlin to support clusters of containers, for instance 13:25:59 <yanyanhu> hi, sorry for late, using my phone as hot spot 13:26:45 <lkarm> does that mean magnum integration? 13:26:46 <Qiming> in that case, Magnum will call senlin to create their pool of containers 13:26:54 <haiwei> Qiming, that is an important job I think 13:27:15 <janonymous_> Apart from senlin wiki ,can i get more info about it. because i m not from heat background so i would be needing some docs. 13:27:31 <Qiming> yip, we have talked to Adrian and Steven Dake for this, the only concern they have today is that we are still on stackforge 13:27:46 <Qiming> and they want no dependencies on stackforge projects 13:28:05 <lkarm> so what is the plan for moving from stackforge 13:28:11 <Qiming> janonymous_, okay, we will work on more docs 13:28:16 <haiwei> so it's better to push openstacksdk to be a openstack project 13:28:42 <yanyanhu> or maybe we can start to implement some drivers directly based on other services client? 13:28:50 <Qiming> Senlin project itself, based on the community's criteria, can be proposed as a openstack project today 13:29:03 <haiwei> janonymous_, maybe understanding heat autoscaling first is helpful 13:29:24 <Qiming> the only reason we are not pushing that line is that we have dependencies on python-openstacksdk 13:29:38 <Qiming> and python-opentacksdk is today a stackforge project 13:29:49 <Qiming> we are actively helping that project as well 13:30:15 <haiwei> python-openstacksdk can be a openstack project today, but they just don't want to be? 13:30:32 <Qiming> em, don't have an answer for that, haiwei 13:31:02 <Qiming> Seems to me, though, the SDK project wants their API design stabilized before proposing 13:31:15 <Qiming> that makes sense to me 13:31:31 <Qiming> and ... it will just be a issue of time 13:31:53 <haiwei> how long it will take ? 13:32:18 <Qiming> yanyanhu, if we introduce dependencies on python-***client into Senlin, we are still eventually throwing them away 13:32:29 <janonymous_> and what can we do for that 13:32:40 <Qiming> haiwei, not sure how long it will take 13:32:51 <yanyanhu> Qiming, that's true, openstack-sdk should be the choice 13:33:06 <Qiming> my personal opinin is focus on Senlin feature development, stability improvement 13:33:16 <haiwei> what about setting a deadline for that 13:33:49 <Qiming> the migration to openstack is just one of the many channels to get this service mature and widely used 13:34:21 <Qiming> haiwei, good point, we need to sync with SDK team on a timeline 13:34:38 <Qiming> #action Qiming to sync with SDK team for timeline 13:34:48 <yanyanhu> actually we still have several import features need to implement including customized action, complicated scaling policy 13:35:09 <Qiming> yanyanhu, +1 13:35:35 <Qiming> let's move on 13:35:50 <Qiming> #topic low-hanging fruits for new contributors 13:36:10 <janonymous_> :) 13:36:24 <Qiming> Many of us are new contributors to Senlin, or new developers for OpenStack 13:36:53 <Qiming> it will be a journey, but it won't be very long one 13:37:15 <Qiming> We are currently filing some bugs for your reference 13:37:19 <Qiming> https://bugs.launchpad.net/senlin/ 13:38:16 <janonymous_> I have question.. What about core contributors of senlin.. 13:38:22 <Qiming> Some bugs are really easy to fix, but they will help you understand the architecture of Senlin, the development process for fixing bugs, propose patches etc. 13:38:41 <Qiming> janonymous_, currently we have only two cores, yanyanhu and me 13:38:58 <Qiming> I believe we will need more soon, pretty soon 13:39:19 <haiwei> Qiming, currently I am doing this kind of bug fix 13:39:32 <janonymous_> Yes , i would be one .. i hope :) 13:39:37 <Qiming> thanks, haiwei, keep the good work 13:39:48 <Qiming> janonymous_, you will, if you want 13:39:59 <yanyanhu> hope you guys can get familiar with the project soon : ) 13:40:13 <janonymous_> Yes. 13:40:18 <Qiming> some low hanging fruits, out of the bug list: Bug #1465565, Bug #1465211, Bug #1465509, Bug #1465518, Bug #1465620 13:40:21 <openstack> bug 1465565 in senlin "Policy attach should use policy defaults if not specified" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465565 13:40:22 <openstack> bug 1465211 in senlin "profile type matching should be checked earlier" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465211 13:40:23 <openstack> bug 1465509 in senlin "Policy attach API should perform parameter validations" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465509 13:40:25 <openstack> bug 1465518 in senlin "Policy detach action API should do some early validation" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465518 13:40:26 <openstack> bug 1465620 in senlin "Policy update API is not checking the JSON body" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1465620 13:40:35 <Qiming> just some examples 13:41:17 <yanyanhu> hi, Qiming, maybe completing exception translation is also one? 13:41:26 <Qiming> btw, we have two files maintained for short-term and long-term jobs 13:41:42 <Qiming> yanyanhu, that sounds more like a TODO item, not a bug 13:41:48 <yanyanhu> yes 13:41:51 <Qiming> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/TODO.rst 13:42:18 <Qiming> we maintain a TODO file in the code repo, listing things we need to do 13:42:44 <Qiming> items in the TODO.rst file doesn't require a design discussion 13:43:11 <Qiming> if you know how to get it done, claim it by signing your name after that item, do it 13:43:23 <Qiming> remove it when it is finished 13:43:35 <Qiming> another file: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin/tree/FEATURES.rst 13:44:10 <Qiming> this is a list of feature request we collected, most of them need some discussions among the team before coding 13:44:34 <Qiming> feel free to start a thread on any of them 13:45:13 <Qiming> if needed, we may create a senlin-specs project for reviewing things like these 13:45:41 <Qiming> questions, comments, suggestions? 13:46:04 <janonymous_> that was helpful. 13:46:45 <Qiming> the FEATURES.rst, to some extent, give you a sense where we are heading, hopefully 13:47:17 <Qiming> okay, let's move on 13:47:24 <Qiming> #topic open discussions 13:48:39 <yanyanhu> hi, Qiming, do we need to arrange some phone calls to answer some questions which may need detailed explaination? 13:49:07 <Qiming> during the Vancouver summit, I met some guys from Alcatel-Lucent, they may join us some day 13:49:35 <haiwei> good news 13:49:37 <janonymous_> Kindly add me on your mailing lists if possible. janonymous.codevulture@gmail.com 13:49:39 <Qiming> phone calls? we can discuss that 13:50:14 <Qiming> janonymous_, all openstack/stackforge projects are supposed to use the official mailinglist for discussion 13:50:14 <haiwei> phone calls means call by phone??:) 13:50:24 <yanyanhu> yes ;) 13:50:41 <haiwei> personal phone call? 13:50:58 <Qiming> when posting your message, be sure to tag your subject with '[Senlin]' so that people can filter it 13:51:01 <yanyanhu> hmm, not sure about the way 13:51:10 <haiwei> I will add your wechat :) 13:51:24 <yanyanhu> nice 13:51:30 <Qiming> phone calls in general is not encouraged, if I'm understanding it correctly 13:51:39 <Qiming> it is kind of private communication 13:52:00 <yanyanhu> yes, I mean something like call conference 13:52:03 <haiwei> i agree with you 13:52:09 <Qiming> I believe all discussions should be open to the public 13:52:17 <yanyanhu> if we can find a way to let everybody join 13:52:28 <yanyanhu> ok, agree 13:52:40 <janonymous_> +1 13:52:48 <Qiming> yep, stay awake on the #senlin channel, be an answer machine, :) 13:53:26 <haiwei> Qiming, that's great 13:53:37 <haiwei> what about your back?:) 13:53:47 <Qiming> not good, recovering 13:53:47 <lkarm> yep I think IRC is best way to commuincate and discuss 13:53:59 <Qiming> yes, lkarm 13:53:59 <haiwei> agree 13:54:15 <yanyanhu> so let join the channel :) 13:54:32 <Qiming> eventually, when we become an openstack project, IRC chats will be logged, you can find whatever discussions you have missed 13:54:58 <lkarm> ah I was wondering why they weren't currently being logged 13:55:19 <Qiming> that said, the best way to answer questions at the moment is to work on some documents, for users, for developers 13:55:28 <haiwei> stackforge project doesn't have the right? 13:55:49 <Qiming> haiwei, I don't think so, maybe I'm missing something 13:56:00 <Qiming> let the team know if you find a way to log the chats 13:56:17 <yanyanhu> agree, Qiming, will try to complete the doc and wiki 13:56:38 <haiwei> what tool are you using? Qiming 13:56:40 <Qiming> thanks, we then don't have to answer the same questions time and time again 13:56:45 <yanyanhu> it's easy to miss some import topics for time difference 13:56:51 <Qiming> I'm using HexChat 13:57:00 <Qiming> right 13:57:01 <janonymous_> whn is the next meeting.. 13:57:26 <Qiming> so if you have something for discussion, you may want to post a note to the mailing list 13:57:35 <Qiming> janonymous_, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda 13:57:37 <haiwei> the same time next week 13:57:48 <Qiming> 1300 UTC, every Tuesday 13:58:02 <janonymous_> thank u 13:58:03 <Qiming> time is up 13:58:09 <Qiming> thank you all for joining 13:58:24 <yanyanhu> thanks, ttyl 13:58:25 <Qiming> see you, see your patches 13:58:40 <haiwei> see you 13:58:42 <janonymous_> :) o/ 13:58:47 <Qiming> discussions can continue on #senlin 13:58:55 <Qiming> #endmeeting