13:00:33 <Qiming> #startmeeting senlin
13:00:34 <yanyanhu> hi
13:00:34 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Aug  4 13:00:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:35 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:00:37 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'senlin'
13:01:21 <Qiming> hello guys
13:01:24 <jruano> hello
13:01:27 <lkarm> hello
13:01:28 <yanyanhu> o/
13:01:29 <haiwei__> hi
13:01:39 <Qiming> let's get started
13:02:01 <Qiming> please add items to the agenda if you have things to share
13:02:06 <Qiming> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda
13:03:10 <Qiming> #topic liberty-3 milestone targets
13:03:33 <Qiming> refer to etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems
13:04:09 <Qiming> we still have some items left from l-2
13:04:34 <yanyanhu> yes, and we have 5 goals want to achieve
13:04:55 <Qiming> right, those five are about l-3
13:05:00 <jruano> i am closing out on mine by tomorrow
13:05:29 <Qiming> if everything goes smooth, I think we should try propose to switch the namespace, ;)
13:05:50 <jruano> that sounds fantastic
13:05:59 <yanyanhu> is trigger also one of our goals? I saw it in backlog but not in goal list
13:06:11 <yanyanhu> I hope it is :)
13:06:17 <Qiming> it is in backlog, should have been completed by l-2
13:06:25 <yanyanhu> ok
13:06:38 <Qiming> need more reviews, you know
13:06:46 <yanyanhu> right
13:07:07 <haiwei__> switch the namespace means to be a openstack project?
13:07:17 <Qiming> the big things ahead: container clusters, which is the topic for the summit talk
13:07:33 <Qiming> yes, haiwei__ we should definitely try it
13:07:42 <haiwei__> ok
13:08:05 <Qiming> another big thing is senlinclient unit tests
13:08:10 <jruano> i am working on the container clusters. behind where i need to be, i have spent some time trying to figure out magnum
13:08:15 <Qiming> we have no a single line for that
13:08:45 <Qiming> thanks, jruano, that is an important show case
13:09:33 <Qiming> we are not supposed to only propose senlin server, leaving senlinclient on stackforge, that makes no sense
13:10:06 <yanyanhu> yep, so maybe we need to have a plan about the unit test of senlinclient
13:10:10 <haiwei__> yes, so the client test should be started soon
13:10:16 <yanyanhu> maybe also file some bugs about it
13:10:25 <Qiming> as for placement policy, it would be part of our efforts to make senlin capable of supporting VM/app HA scenarios
13:10:50 <Qiming> +1 on filing some bugs now
13:11:11 <yanyanhu> this is one of the most important feature we want to support in the first release I think
13:11:27 <yanyanhu> the placement policy to support cross az/region node creation
13:11:52 <Qiming> it is important for two reasons
13:12:15 <Qiming> we have some commitments to demonstrate cross-region autoscaling
13:12:52 <Qiming> placement policy would be also a show case for the upcoming OpenNFV summit in San Francisco
13:13:25 <Qiming> that was the reason I'm putting it there in the list as an important goal
13:13:45 <haiwei__> you will git a demo about it?
13:13:57 <Qiming> hopefully, Cindia can help us get that sorted out soon
13:14:07 <Qiming> yes, haiwei__
13:14:10 <jruano> we talked with a customer last week around tosca. they mentioned placement policy at the top of their list as well
13:14:32 <Qiming> it was a proposal submitted with China Mobile, VMware
13:15:03 <Qiming> just submitted today
13:15:15 <yanyanhu> Qiming, I think we may need to start work on this item asap to ensure we can give a prilimary implementation by the end of l-3 deadline
13:15:17 <haiwei__> when is the summit
13:15:40 <Qiming> it's Nov 08-14?
13:15:59 <lkarm> i thought it was in october
13:16:10 <jruano> tokyo is end of october this year
13:16:20 <jruano> 27-30 i think?
13:16:27 <yanyanhu> yes, hope no conflict
13:16:31 <Qiming> right
13:16:52 <Qiming> openstack summit Oct 27-30, OpenNFV summit Nov 08-14
13:18:06 <Qiming> if we have supports from carrier vendors, we are really on a good track to get our work utilized
13:18:16 <yanyanhu> HA policy is also needed as well as the placement policy?
13:18:36 <Qiming> placement policy is only part of the story, HA ... is a big topic
13:18:58 <yanyanhu> ok, good news for now :)
13:19:08 <Qiming> hopefully we can gain some traction, with placement policy as a starting point
13:19:25 <yanyanhu> we don't have to jump into HA part in next month
13:19:32 <yanyanhu> ok
13:19:35 <Qiming> again, I'm hoping that Cindia will lead that effort and get started soon
13:19:47 <yanyanhu> that will be the best :)
13:19:51 <Qiming> it is a separate thread
13:20:19 <haiwei__> who is Cindia :)
13:20:22 <Qiming> do we need to prioritize these items?
13:20:27 <yanyanhu> lixinhui :)
13:20:33 <Qiming> haiwei__, Cindia-Blue, :)
13:20:50 <haiwei__> ok, absent today?
13:21:05 <yanyanhu> no, Qiming, I think we just need to ensure every item has some guys to work on it
13:21:35 <Qiming> alright, sign your name after each item
13:21:46 <yanyanhu> then we can know whether we really have bandwidth to finish these items
13:22:06 <Qiming> it is okay to have more than one name signed on each item, right?
13:22:13 <yanyanhu> sure :)
13:22:47 <Qiming> I'm signing on the senlinclient test cases
13:22:57 <haiwei__> yap, but don't conflict
13:23:39 <Qiming> sure, if two or more people are working on the same item, we need to sync more frequently
13:23:51 <yanyanhu> hope I can finish the functional test setup
13:24:03 <Qiming> btw, jruano, do you need help on the unit tests?
13:24:18 <Qiming> just noticed that you have claimed quite some of them
13:24:22 <yanyanhu> and provide tests for some most important cases
13:24:57 <Qiming> yanyanhu, that would be cool, giving both users and us more confidence on using the service
13:25:03 <jruano> i think im good. i finished node_action, and started cluster_action
13:25:14 <yanyanhu> yes, that's our goal
13:25:27 <jruano> the new ones i claimed yesterday were for drivers
13:25:46 <Qiming> okay, jruano, if the plate is too full for you, we can share, :)
13:26:10 <Qiming> let's move on
13:26:15 <jruano> sure np.
13:26:21 <Qiming> #topic plan of functional testing
13:26:26 <Qiming> yanyanhu,
13:26:34 <yanyanhu> ok
13:26:49 <yanyanhu> now we plan to add functional test for Senlin service
13:27:24 <yanyanhu> currently, we only have unit test and all of them are located in senlin/tests
13:27:54 <yanyanhu> so we tried to relocate these existing tests and reorganize our test cases
13:27:57 <yanyanhu> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/208944/
13:28:18 <yanyanhu> this patch move all unit tests into senlin/tests/unit directory
13:28:39 <yanyanhu> and new added functional test will be put into senlin/test/functional directory
13:29:13 <yanyanhu> so some of you guys may need to rebase some existing works on unit test :)
13:29:48 <Qiming> already get some report of merge failure, :)
13:29:57 <yanyanhu> yes ;)
13:30:27 <yanyanhu> first, we will try to add basic support of functional test locally
13:30:50 <Qiming> functional test is mostly about ensuring the service behaves as expected when processing REST requests
13:31:19 <yanyanhu> yep, so we don't touch other services in this part
13:31:57 <yanyanhu> only senlin services will be tested through REST API
13:32:33 <Qiming> so, basically, you will do 'source senlinrc; tox -e functional'
13:33:30 <Qiming> I hope by the end of l-3, we will have major workflows covered
13:34:17 <haiwei__> this is also a big task
13:34:29 <Qiming> absolutely
13:34:45 <yanyan> sorry, just dropped
13:34:51 <Qiming> once the first workflow is running
13:35:04 <Qiming> adding other workflows would be simple
13:35:12 <yanyan> yes
13:35:22 <Qiming> just send a REST request and assert the response
13:35:25 <yanyan> hope can finish the first step in a week
13:35:48 <Qiming> cool!
13:35:59 <yanyan> scenario and integration test will be future work :)
13:36:31 <haiwei__> it seems other projects are doing function tests in Tempest
13:36:42 <Qiming> integration test means we will be testing senlin's interaction with other services, using real Profile
13:36:55 <haiwei__> we will also move it to tempest maybe one day?
13:36:58 <yanyan> hmm, most of them have moved functional test out of tempest I think
13:37:19 <yanyan> saw related patches and bps in different projects
13:37:35 <yanyan> Qiming, yes
13:37:41 <haiwei__> yanyan, oh, my information is too old
13:37:45 <Qiming> yes, doing functional tests there would make the gating job run very long
13:37:55 <yanyan> I also got this info from Qiming :)
13:38:27 <Qiming> in heat, we used to call them heat-slow tests
13:38:33 <Qiming> and heat-very-slow tests, :)
13:38:44 <haiwei__> I used to write some function tests in tempest for nova
13:38:49 <yanyan> :p
13:39:04 <Qiming> anyway, functional tests in each project, that makes sense, we will do it
13:39:15 <Qiming> yanyan, shall we move on?
13:39:16 <jruano> right
13:39:17 <yanyan> cool, maybe you can share some experience about it
13:39:19 <haiwei__> ok
13:39:21 <yanyan> ok
13:39:25 <yanyan> lets move on
13:39:30 <Qiming> #topic clusters of containers
13:39:52 <Qiming> jruano, anything new to share?
13:40:38 <jruano> i am a little behind here... i spend some time digging through magnum and it has been more difficult than i expected
13:40:53 <jruano> magnum requires a coe to manage containers
13:41:01 <Qiming> okay, that's true
13:41:29 <jruano> so for the poc i am not sure we need all of that
13:41:45 <Qiming> there are things we cannot control out there
13:42:58 <jruano> so for the short term i am focused on trying to get a cluster of containers deployed under coreos
13:43:08 <Qiming> maybe senlin is not capable of assuming the role of a coe in near future
13:43:39 <jruano> i'd hope it can
13:44:02 <jruano> magnum is wanting to be generic, but it is semantically very close to k8s
13:44:03 <Qiming> it seems to me that Magnum is still brainstorming their horizontal scaling support
13:44:10 <Qiming> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071216.html
13:44:54 <Qiming> to be honest, we have been asking the question again and again, what are the values magnum bring to users
13:45:10 <jruano> lol
13:45:16 <jruano> i am struggling with it
13:45:37 <jruano> fundamentally to me it appears to be a k8s abstraction
13:45:49 <Qiming> maybe the magnum team has some ideas I'm not aware of
13:46:00 <Qiming> do we need a k8s abstraction?
13:46:09 <jruano> when i talk to folks in tosca, they want a generic container service
13:46:34 <Qiming> the 'container engine' could be docker or k8s, right?
13:46:35 <haiwei__> as far as I know, magnum is just a tool to install k8s
13:46:56 <Qiming> yes, that is my understanding as well, haiwei__
13:47:01 <jruano> yes haiwei_ that is what it looks like from the code
13:47:07 <Qiming> and it is using Heat to do the VM provisioning
13:47:11 <jruano> yep
13:47:56 <Qiming> a unified abstraction above docker and k8s? that is challenging
13:48:01 <haiwei__> so what is our goal to work with magnum?
13:48:11 <haiwei__> we want magnum to use senlin?
13:48:14 <Qiming> not just from technical perspective
13:48:42 <Qiming> we believe Senlin can do a better job managing the VMs they use to run containers
13:49:34 <Qiming> anyway, let's keep investigating
13:49:52 <haiwei__> so that should be magnum->k8s->docker->senlin->vm->containers?
13:50:15 <jruano> that is where i am at. i will have more over the next couple of days
13:50:34 <Qiming> the vision is: magnum talks to senlin to provision VMs, it then talks to k8s or docker to privision containers
13:51:27 <Qiming> maybe senlin should help manage the containers directly, :P
13:51:43 <jruano> thats where i was headed
13:51:55 <Qiming> oh, really?
13:51:58 <jruano> but magnum for now seems to want to just push that to the underlying coe
13:52:20 <Qiming> magnum doesn't want to reinvent things
13:52:26 <jruano> true
13:52:38 <Qiming> k8s has a big community, docker has another
13:52:51 <Qiming> you are not compete head to head with them
13:53:27 <Qiming> so, for Senlin, we just see where we can help
13:53:43 <Qiming> okay, we don't have much time now
13:53:48 <Qiming> #topic open discussions
13:54:32 <Qiming> anything we have missed?
13:54:47 <yanyan> nope from me
13:54:59 <Qiming> guess no
13:55:02 <jruano> nothing from me
13:55:10 <Qiming> see you guys, thanks for joining
13:55:12 <haiwei__> it's ok for me
13:55:14 <Qiming> #endmeeting