(16:00:34) gampel:   #startmeeting smaug  
(16:00:40) zhonghua-lee: hi
(16:00:43) gampel:   Hi everyone   
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(16:00:56) gampel:   Welcome to the first smug IRC meeting  
(16:01:04) zengyingzhe_: Hi
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(16:01:43) gampel:   Who is here    zengyingzhe_ , saggi ?  
(16:01:54) zengyingzhe_: I'm here.
(16:01:58) zhonghua-lee: and me
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(16:02:46) gampel: Ok,  We have a lot on the agenda so let’s start   
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(16:02:54) gampel:   #topic Smaug Overview  
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(16:02:57) zengyingzhe_: OK
(16:02:57) zhonghua-lee: OK
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(16:03:23) saggi: Hey
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(16:03:39) gampel: Hi saggi this is our first IRC so   are there any question about the projects goals plan mission statement   
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(16:05:01) gampel:   I just would like focus the IRC  meetings on operational info what’s the plan who is doing      
(16:05:14) zhonghua-lee: what's my suggestion is we should public our project plan, do you agree with me?
(16:05:28) gampel: yes and  I think that  deep dive design should be done in our IRC channel  
(16:05:38) saggi: or on gerrit
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(16:05:59) saggi: similar to how we are now discussing the API
(16:05:59) gampel:   #topic "Proposed Smaug API v1.0"  
(16:06:20) gampel:   Do we have any open question/comments  on the API   ?
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(16:06:54) zhonghua-lee: yes, need we present the 'provider' to end user?
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(16:07:42) gampel: currently we want the user to select  a provider from a list of providers 
(16:08:02) smcginnis: o/
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(16:08:14) zhonghua-lee: when we think about backup, maybe what i care about is the resources, not the "provider'
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(16:08:33) saggi: you care about the provider since you care about where you back up
(16:08:39) zhonghua-lee: hi smcginnis
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(16:09:00) smcginnis: zhonghua-lee: Hi!
(16:09:05) gampel: welcome 
(16:09:12) zhonghua-lee: @saggi yes, i think that the target
(16:09:23) zhonghua-lee: that's the target
(16:09:46) gampel: the provider encapsulate a selection of plugins and a bank 
(16:09:49) zhonghua-lee: it's difficult to understand what's a 'provider'
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(16:10:27) saggi: zhonghua-lee: It's a ProtectionProvider. It encompasses all aspects of the protection. Where to backup and how to back up.
(16:10:28) zhonghua-lee: what's your opinion?
(16:10:50) zengyingzhe_: Full name is ProtectionProvider. I think it's clear.
(16:11:05) saggi: It provides protection services. Though we are open to better naming conventions.
(16:11:27) saggi: But only in the next couple of days since we really want to finalize the aPI
(16:11:28) saggi: API
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(16:12:07) zhonghua-lee: yes,i know it's simple API
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(16:12:15) gampel: we could use ProtectionProvider , what do you all think 
(16:12:38) smcginnis: gampel: Clarity is better IMO. That sounds good.
(16:12:44) zhonghua-lee: maybe ,we should think it over, if it's neccesarry to present the concepe
(16:13:30) gampel: zhonghua-lee: i am not sure i understand 
(16:13:35) saggi: I'm OK with changing plan to protection_plan and provider to protection_provider. I'm also partial to clarity over brevity.
(16:13:48) zhonghua-lee: maybe, protectionProvider is helpful to understand
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(16:14:04) gampel: #action rename provider API to protectionProvider 
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(16:14:46) zhonghua-lee: sounds good
(16:14:50) gampel: Do we have any additional   comments  on the API   
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(16:15:26) gampel:   #topic Open Issues  
(16:15:26) chenzeng: no
(16:15:37) zhonghua-lee: there are many comments from yinwei, it seems she is not here now
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(16:15:43) gampel:   Yinwei are you here ? can you please explain this topic   
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(16:17:45) gampel:  is there any open issues, i guess we will address yinwei question in next meeting 
(16:18:16) zhonghua-lee: +1
(16:18:19) zengyingzhe_: OK
(16:18:24) gampel:   #topic Boilerplate un-started generic infrastructure tasks  
(16:18:33) gampel: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaug-bootsrap
(16:19:29) gampel: chenzeng: can you share your status 
(16:20:22) saggi: chenzeng: ?
(16:20:26) chenzeng: yes
(16:21:08) chenzeng: I want to use "apscheduler" to implement the time trigger
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(16:22:12) saggi: chenzeng: Are there any other openstack projects that use it?
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(16:22:34) chenzeng: yes,
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(16:22:43) chenying_: Hi
(16:23:00) smcginnis: I've used Quartz scheduler quite a bit in other languages. Googling for quartz for python points to apscheduler.
(16:23:04) smcginnis: That's probably a good sign.
(16:23:15) chenzeng: DPS of huawei use it to implement the trigger.
(16:23:52) gampel: i think it look like a good plan 
(16:24:16) zhonghua-lee: @chenzeng DPS is not a OPenStack project now
(16:25:05) gampel:  chenying_: whats the status of the Boilerplate  tasks 
(16:25:42) chenzeng: zhonghua:yes,but we can use the same technology.
(16:25:59) zhonghua-lee: @chenzeng ok
(16:26:06) saggi: chenzeng: Remember to send a UML of the design of the service you start writing actual code. We need to make sure it all adds up.
(16:27:11) saggi: chenzeng: I would rather use existing openstack dependencies if those are good enough. Please check if this library is already tracked by openstack. If not we will have to make sure it's tracked if we decide to use it.
(16:28:18) gampel: saggi: +1 textual format + image will be best  for the design please send it to spec folder under doc 
(16:28:27) saggi: chenzeng: Also try and do it in plantuml if possible since it's a format we can review on Gerrit and push to git.
(16:28:28) chenying_: gampel: Boilerplate  tasks?  You mean Schedule service base framework?
(16:28:45) chenzeng: saggi:yes, we should reach an agreement.
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(16:28:57) gampel: no all the task list we have in the etherpad 
(16:28:58) saggi: chenzeng: Boilerplate tasks https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaug-bootsrap
(16:29:29) saggi: The stuff we need to get all the infrastructure working
(16:29:32) chenzeng: saggi:ok
(16:29:53) gampel:   if someone wants to take a task from that list please update the  etherpad with the status 
(16:30:00) saggi: Everyone please put your name after the task you are taking so we don't step on each other's toes.
(16:30:19) smcginnis: apscheduler is not in global requirements: https://github.com/openstack/requirements/blob/master/global-requirements.txt
(16:30:32) smcginnis: And it's an MIT license, not Apache. Not sure if that will be an issue or not.
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(16:31:19) gampel: do anyone know an alternative library ?
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(16:31:56) saggi: chenzeng: Please check if an alternative is in the global-requirements and if not work on pushing apscheduler.
(16:31:58) chenzeng: maybe we should find another one.
(16:32:09) smcginnis: Oh, I do see other packages marked as MIT in the global requirements. It's probably OK then
(16:32:25) zhonghua-lee: hi, saggi,maybe, we need more description of each task in etherpad
(16:32:34) smcginnis: It would be good to see if there is something similar already there, but if not, probably not a problem getting it added.
(16:32:57) saggi: gampel: Put an action item for it on chenzeng
(16:32:59) chenzeng: saggi:i will.
(16:32:59) gampel: #action chenzeng look for an  alternative in the global-requirements for the triers 
(16:33:11) chenying_: I will update the status of the task in the etherpad.
(16:33:32) gampel: can you give us a brief status 
(16:33:39) saggi: zhonghua-lee: What is unclear?
(16:34:21) saggi: zhonghua-lee: Those are very basic tasks. Just getting the services and DB running and all the devstack bits.
(16:34:41) chenying_: DB models : The patchs have been submitted.
(16:34:44) zhonghua-lee: @saggi, it's just my suggestion :)
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(16:35:30) gampel: zhonghua-lee: no problem just add in the etherpad where you think that we should add more info 
(16:35:32) saggi: chenying_: I saw, I'll get to review those soon. I'm still finding my way around the Gerrit redesign :) .
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(16:35:43) saggi: gampel: +1
(16:35:51) zhonghua-lee: @gampel ok, i will
(16:36:02) gampel:   #topic Scheduler service design status  
(16:36:10) gampel:   Saggi can you please share your plans with regards Scheduler design   
(16:36:18) chenying_: Scheduler service: base service class has been done. smaug-scheduler base service will be done this week.
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(16:37:06) gampel: as saggi said before we need to make sure we send the design  spec before the coding 
(16:37:21) chenzeng: i agree
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(16:37:58) saggi: I will try and get something up today. We need to remember that the scheduler service should be replaceable similar to other schedulers in openstack.
(16:39:01) saggi: Even by third party. Some enterprises might just want to use Smaug's low level APIs and do all the scheduling policy and tiering themselves.
(16:41:05) gampel: the main blocks are the Trigger engine , the Operation Exe and how to handle high availability  
(16:41:52) zengyingzhe_: saggi, do you consider the scenario that schedule service crashed?
(16:42:36) zengyingzhe_: This is about HA, like gampel said.
(16:42:41) saggi: Yes, it's very important to handle that since it handles high level operations like multiple deletion
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(16:43:11) zhonghua-lee: is it too early to think about HA?
(16:43:34) saggi: zhonghua-lee: I think we should keep it in mind. We might not implement it for V1 but we should know that we can.
(16:43:50) gampel: saggi +1
(16:43:58) smcginnis: I can say thinking about it up front will be a lot easier than trying to fit it in after the fact. ;)
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(16:44:23) gampel: saggi: when do you think you could provide the high level design block for the Scheduler service
(16:44:35) zhonghua-lee: i think HA is a big solution
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(16:45:20) gampel:  smcginnis: i agree it must be in the design 
(16:45:31) smcginnis: zhonghua-lee: Yeah, just keeping it in mind so it's not a major redesign down the road to add it will help safe some headache.
(16:45:40) smcginnis: s/safe/save/
(16:46:05) zhonghua-lee: smcginnis yeah, i totally agree with you
(16:46:29) saggi: I will have some preliminary UML up tomorrow.
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(16:46:51) gampel: #action saggi provide high level design block for the Scheduler service
(16:47:01) saggi: A base from which we could build on
(16:47:54) gampel: I think yinwei started working on the Protection service design 
(16:48:25) chenying_: yes yinwei is working on Protection service design.
(16:48:28) chenzeng: I have a question, why does the schedule service interact with DB?
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(16:49:06) saggi: chenzeng: It needs a place to save all the triggers and track transactions. It might even have it's own DB in the future.
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(16:49:13) zhonghua-lee: gampel: yes, but it seems she has a lot of questions about the relationship between API and Protection service.
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(16:50:01) gampel: chenzeng: it is not the same tables as the API/plan and it could be a different DB as saggi said 
(16:50:27) saggi: zhonghua-lee: She can find me on IRC or ask on the API patch. If there are some stuff that are unclear we would probably want to modify the documentation so it's clearer anyway.
(16:50:33) chenzeng: ok.
(16:50:43) zengyingzhe_: Is this the decoupling purpose? Use different DB.
(16:51:00) zhonghua-lee: saggi: ok , i will talk to her
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(16:51:01) chenzeng: it means the schedule service need DB to store its own information?
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(16:51:36) saggi: Yes, we would like it not to depend on the API service for operation.
(16:51:53) gampel: zengyingzhe_: it is completely different data  operational  not policy 
(16:52:41) zengyingzhe_: I see
(16:52:44) gampel: in the V1 we could use the same DB just different tables all together 
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(16:52:52) smcginnis: Scheduler is a bit of an overloaded term in this case. Everywhere else in OS it is as in task placement.
(16:52:54) chenzeng: understand
(16:53:05) smcginnis: In this case it is scheduler as in time scheduler.
(16:53:10) smcginnis: Or perhaps both.
(16:53:18) smcginnis: If I'm making any sense. :)
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(16:53:33) saggi: smcginnis: It also tracks the tasks and does transactions.
(16:54:18) gampel:  smcginnis: i agree we might need to find a better name for the service but it will do the automatic operation work flow as well 
(16:54:23) saggi: smcginnis: For example, if you scheduled to delete all checkpoints older than 10 days. It will query the protection provider and issues and track all the deletions.
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(16:55:12) smcginnis: saggi: True. So just pointing out that for folks coming from other projects, it may not be clear right away that it is not just something that takes a request and routes it to where it needs to be executed.
(16:55:20) smcginnis: It is much more in this case.
(16:55:59) smcginnis: So that either just needs to be pointed out or documented, or it could possibly be called something else and broken out separately from the "traditional" scheduler concept of other openstack projects.
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(16:57:01) zengyingzhe_: saggi, you mean schedule service is also a monitor?
(16:57:05) saggi: smcginnis: No one reads the docs :) I will try and think of a better name. Maybe PlicyEnfocer ?
(16:57:10) gampel: #action saggi, gampel find  alternative name for the scheduler service(ideas are welcome ) 
(16:57:18) smcginnis: saggi: Very true! ;)
(16:57:40) smcginnis: PolicyEnforcer, TaskManager, ExecutionEngine, ...
(16:57:47) smcginnis: No idea what works best. :-D
(16:57:51) saggi: zengyingzhe_: It will monitor the only the automatic tasks. Checkpoints that were invoked manually will have to be tracked manually.
(16:58:17) chenzeng: saggi:does the schedule service interact with DB when it is running?
(16:58:57) saggi: Yes, for example if it failed to run a backup it will have to make the execution as failed.
(16:59:05) saggi: It will also need to keep state about the transaction
(16:59:14) gampel: we are almost out of time i suggest saggi will have the design up for review tomorrow  and we could continue there 
(16:59:23) saggi: gampel: _1
(16:59:24) saggi: +1
(16:59:28) gampel: Please look in the patches Open for review
(16:59:28) chenzeng: +1
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(16:59:45) gampel: thank you every one 
(16:59:49) saggi: Just while I still have everyone's attention
(17:00:00) zhonghua-lee: thank you
(17:00:02) saggi: If I missed you comment on the API send it again.
(17:00:05) chenzeng: thanks
(17:00:09) zengyingzhe_: Thanks. Bye.
(17:00:11) saggi: Thanks you everybody
(17:00:20) chenying_: Thanks you all.
(17:00:24) smcginnis: Thanks.
(17:00:32) saggi: and thanks smcginnis for joining. We appreciate you experience.
(17:00:39) saggi: your
(17:00:43) smcginnis: Glad to!
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(17:00:58) gampel: yes thank you very much please let us know if the time is good for you 
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(17:01:19) smcginnis: Yeah, this works well.
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(17:01:41) gampel: bye everyone happy holidays 
(17:02:38) gampel:   #endmeeting   
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(17:03:06) smcginnis: The bot must be affected by the infra issues too. That's too bad.
(17:03:26) gampel: :)
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