14:00:17 <devkulkarni> #startmeeting Solum Team Meeting
14:00:17 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Feb 22 14:00:17 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is devkulkarni. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:18 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00:20 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'solum_team_meeting'
14:00:43 <devkulkarni> Here is the agenda for today's meeting: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Solum#Agenda_for_2017-02-22_1400_UTC
14:01:20 <zhurong> hey Dev
14:01:31 <devkulkarni> hi zhu nice to see you
14:01:46 <pt_15> Hey devkulkarni and zhurong!
14:01:54 <devkulkarni> hi pt_15
14:01:58 <zhurong> hey pt_15
14:02:06 <zhurong> long time no see
14:02:13 <devkulkarni> nice to see you too after long time
14:02:42 <pt_15> yeah, had gotten busy with work at college
14:02:50 <devkulkarni> I believe Ablu is also around today
14:03:01 <Ablu> yep
14:03:02 <Ablu> hi
14:03:22 <devkulkarni> alright.. lets get started
14:03:33 <devkulkarni> #topic Announcements
14:03:48 <devkulkarni> Updates from Atlanta PTG
14:04:10 <devkulkarni> Earlier this week I was in Atlanta attending the project team gathering
14:05:12 <devkulkarni> The main thing that I had on my agenda for PTG was to meet with some of the TC members and appraise them of where we are currently with the project and figure out the options going forward
14:05:45 <devkulkarni> I was able to do that meeting. I met with Thierry and Doug
14:06:50 <devkulkarni> As I mentioned to some of you over email, there is going to be more pressure on openstack teams that don't have enough contributors
14:07:50 <devkulkarni> for example, without enough contributors it will be hard for teams to satisfy openstack wide goals that are being proposed for each cycle
14:08:20 <devkulkarni> take for instance this cycle -- there are two goals: Python 3.5 compatibility and Making API layer wsgi compliant
14:08:49 <devkulkarni> while we are fine with the Python 3.5 compatibility goal, we still need to work on the API layer compliance goal
14:09:25 <devkulkarni> the main point was that beyond satisfying the goals we should be producing newer features
14:09:36 <zhurong> lack of contributors is not our reason
14:09:51 <devkulkarni> zhurong: sure
14:11:11 <devkulkarni> at the same time we do need long term commitment from more than us so that we keep on adding new features and also keep on satisfying the goals
14:11:28 <devkulkarni> so let me quickly update you on the commitment part
14:12:00 <devkulkarni> I had reached out to Hong Bin to see if he and his organization might be interested
14:12:35 <devkulkarni> He has said that he is interested personally but does not know about org level interest
14:13:45 <devkulkarni> So given that all of us have interest in the project but there is no org level interest, what should be done? That was what discussed with the TC members
14:15:02 <devkulkarni> The options that came up was essentially try to see if we can get some org-level buy in if possible soon.
14:15:07 <zhurong> what is the answer?
14:16:24 <devkulkarni> If that is not happening then one option is to remove ourselves from official governance so that we don't have to worry about satisfying openstack-wide requirements (such as goals, release deadlines, etc.). We can still operate as an Openstack project with PTL etc. just that we won't have to abide by the strict policies
14:17:17 <devkulkarni> how would you guys feel about this route?
14:18:36 <devkulkarni> We don't have to take the decision right now
14:18:56 <devkulkarni> I told the TC members that let me get back with the team and discuss this
14:18:58 <zhurong> I think we should stay in big tent
14:20:08 <devkulkarni> zhurong: sure, we can probably do that as long as we get more buy in, more contributors essentially
14:20:55 <devkulkarni> zhurong: as I had asked you some time back, is it possible for your org to participate more? If you want, I can reach out to ppl in your org to make the case
14:21:31 <devkulkarni> also, Hong Bin has mentioned that he is going to check with other contributors from Zun team to see if they might be interested in contributing
14:21:56 <zhurong> that is a difficult thing, but most of the project have the same problem, so we can keep in watching
14:22:37 <devkulkarni> good point.. there is a meeting today in PTG about designate's situation
14:22:44 <devkulkarni> which is also in similar boat
14:23:12 <devkulkarni> I am hoping that something concrete might come out of it
14:24:13 <zhurong> we can do our best, other things seems we can not control. :D
14:24:34 <devkulkarni> zhurong: that is true :)
14:25:15 <devkulkarni> however, we as a team need to take the decision on this. one thing that TC made clear is they will not force us to do anything
14:26:35 <devkulkarni> so it is up to us
14:27:49 <vijendar> Hi all
14:28:03 <devkulkarni> my current inclination is slightly towards going unofficial if we don't get buy-in in a months time or so as that will give us breathing space from not having to follow the strict requirements of being part of big tent
14:28:05 <devkulkarni> hi vijendar
14:28:15 <devkulkarni> we have zhurong, pt_15, and Ablu with us today
14:28:25 <Ablu> Hi
14:28:27 <Ablu> well... I fear that I cannot contribute too much to this discussion...
14:28:49 <devkulkarni> vijendar: we are discussing about PTG and how should we proceed
14:28:53 <devkulkarni> Ablu: ack
14:28:56 <Ablu> I do can only contribute in my freetime... which is very limited
14:29:01 <Ablu> my irc client hangs...
14:29:08 <vijendar> I see
14:29:55 <zhurong> we can follow all the requirements
14:30:15 <zhurong> we can control this
14:30:33 <devkulkarni> zhurong: I like your positive attitude :)
14:31:16 <vijendar> currently what requirements are not being satisfied by solum project?
14:31:35 <devkulkarni> vijendar: there are nothing that we are not satisfying currently
14:31:35 <zhurong> as you mentioned, there are just two goals
14:31:40 <devkulkarni> we are on track
14:31:56 <devkulkarni> zhurong: yes, there are only two goals right now and one of that we have already satisfied
14:32:09 <devkulkarni> so for this cycle I think we don't have an issue
14:32:30 <zhurong> yep, we just need finish the wsgi goal
14:32:41 <vijendar> ok. then what is the need to go out of big tent? My fear is, if we go out of big tent, probably it's not easy to come in
14:32:49 <vijendar> wsgi goal seems to be simple one
14:33:07 <zhurong> agree with vijendar
14:33:15 <devkulkarni> I am thinking longer term.. what about next cycle, the cycle after that, etc. also, beyond goals we need to keep on adding new features.. but unless someone is actively using our project we won't know what to add
14:33:17 <zhurong> if we leave, we can not back
14:34:12 <devkulkarni> zhurong: I don't think that is the case..I think any project can re-apply
14:34:19 <zhurong> if we out of bing tend, there are more hopeless to get contributors
14:34:29 <vijendar> devkulkarni: agree, unless some is using, all the development effort we put in is wasted
14:34:47 <devkulkarni> zhurong: agree
14:34:54 <vijendar> *someone
14:35:32 <devkulkarni> ok, this is good discussion
14:35:50 <vijendar> zhurong agree if we go out, it's difficult to get contributors/adoption
14:35:51 <devkulkarni> in any case we don't have to take any decision today
14:36:33 <vijendar> right
14:36:49 <devkulkarni> lets keep on thinking more and discuss again next week
14:37:38 <devkulkarni> one thing that Thierry did mention to me is if TC starts looking at number of contributors then it may affect us
14:38:00 <devkulkarni> but that is only an 'if' at this stage
14:38:10 <devkulkarni> they are not looking at that at this moment
14:38:40 <devkulkarni> in fact, let me share transcript from one of the TC meetings some time back in which Solum was being discussed
14:39:47 <devkulkarni> vijendar, zhurong: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-24-20.00.log.html#l-195
14:42:03 <vijendar> devkulkarni: reading
14:42:19 <devkulkarni> ack
14:46:00 <devkulkarni> zhurong, vijendar: thoughts/comments?
14:47:16 <vijendar> devkulkarni: what they were discussing there is true!
14:48:00 <devkulkarni> yes, the point about the patches is true
14:48:37 <vijendar> devkulkarni: let's see if we can make difference this cycle, otherwise let's go out of big tent towards the end of this cycle
14:50:13 <devkulkarni> that is one option.. I was thinking month/month and half, but end of this cycle is also a good time marker for us to re-evaluate where we stand
14:50:21 <zhurong> as I know, most of the projects are all the same
14:51:28 <devkulkarni> zhurong: from contributions point-of-view other projects might be slightly better than us, otherwise they would have also come up in TC discussion. But TC seems to have only discussed us and AppCatalog
14:51:37 <zhurong> there are no org support, there are lack of contributors
14:53:21 <devkulkarni> zhurong: ack
14:53:59 <devkulkarni> lets do this..
14:54:10 <zhurong> agree
14:54:31 <devkulkarni> zhurong: I mean, I am saying that lets do the following:
14:55:14 <devkulkarni> - lets take this week to think more about this issue
14:55:39 <devkulkarni> in the mean time I will ping Hong Bin to see if he has any further information for us
14:55:58 <vijendar> ok
14:56:27 <devkulkarni> we can discuss again in our next week meeting
14:56:59 <zhurong> that is a sad thing :(
14:57:49 <devkulkarni> zhurong: I understand.. but we are not deciding on anything yet.. I just shared where TC is leaning on this
14:59:32 <devkulkarni> I personally also feel the same way as you are feeling. trust me.. ultimately though it is going to be up to us to make an informed decision..
15:00:18 <devkulkarni> zhurong, vijendar, pt_15, Ablu: thanks for attending the meeting today
15:00:28 <devkulkarni> lets continue in solum irc channel
15:00:31 <devkulkarni> #endmeeting