18:02:08 <SotK> #startmeeting storyboard
18:02:10 <openstack> Meeting started Thu Jan 21 18:02:08 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:02:10 <diablo_rojo> Ready!
18:02:11 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:02:13 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'
18:02:16 <diablo_rojo> o/
18:02:25 <SotK> hi!
18:02:34 <SotK> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard#Agenda_for_next_meeting Agenda
18:02:58 <SotK> very minimal, we can flesh it out in time as we get things done I think
18:03:04 * diablo_rojo digs up etherpad she was using for research
18:03:08 <SotK> #topic In Progress Work
18:04:13 <diablo_rojo> So I was doing research on replacements for Angular.js
18:04:21 <diablo_rojo> #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/replace-angularjs-storyboard-research Research!
18:05:37 <diablo_rojo> I've generally arranged them in descending order of preference, though the top 3-4 are on reasonably even footing.
18:05:55 <diablo_rojo> I compiled the data from a variety of sources.
18:07:30 * diablo_rojo imagines a lot of reading is happening
18:07:48 <diablo_rojo> They are basically all MIT licenses.
18:08:07 <diablo_rojo> I tried to gather data on their latest stable and release cadence if I could find it easily.
18:09:01 <diablo_rojo> What I should have done was probably figured out our requirements first? Like there was one option (I can't recall anymore) that only worked with MongoDB and I was like.. oh well that won't work.
18:12:01 <SotK> this is a good doc, thanks for the research!
18:12:09 <diablo_rojo> No problem!
18:12:28 <diablo_rojo> It didn't take more than a couple hours.
18:12:50 <diablo_rojo> If we narrow it down to like two or three then I can do more research into them for next week and we can make a final decision?
18:12:54 <SotK> meteor is the full-stack mongodb one, I reckon we can probably count that out
18:12:57 <SotK> that sounds good
18:13:22 <diablo_rojo> Ah yes, I wrote it down. Nice.
18:13:23 <diablo_rojo> Lol
18:14:04 <diablo_rojo> Mithril sounds a bit restricted because they focus so much on lightweight and making the whole thing so itty bitty.
18:14:21 <diablo_rojo> So I might cross that one off too
18:14:59 <SotK> I'm in favour of crossing that out too
18:15:19 <diablo_rojo> Done!
18:15:45 * fungi really is around and paying attention, just knows less than nothing about web development and its frameworks so is happy to see others deciding this
18:15:53 <SotK> as for requirements, I'm sure all the remaining options can cover our needs fine from a technical standpoint
18:16:19 <SotK> storyboard's client needs aren't massively complex really
18:16:36 <diablo_rojo> Okay cool. Yeah, I know there were like.. 100 other options, but I didn't want to stray too far from the beaten path.
18:16:56 <diablo_rojo> The list is probably a bit biased by ones I have heard of before or saw mentioned in multiple places.
18:17:11 <fungi> maybe we can follow up this meeting with a post to the service-discuss ml saying a sentence or two about the framework we're leaning toward, and a link to the meeting minutes for folks who want to see the long-form explanations/analysis
18:17:18 <diablo_rojo> As I was going I actually remembered that I had experience with Meteor in university :)
18:17:46 <diablo_rojo> That's a good idea fungi!
18:18:07 <diablo_rojo> I might give like two options and see what others think. If they have experience or opinions.
18:18:17 <diablo_rojo> I can handle sending the email
18:18:18 <SotK> I think the most important factor needs to be the availability of quality documentation, community/support, and perhaps 3rd party libraries (for things that we currently use libraries for, like the drag-and-drop/sortable behaviour of the boards and worklists)
18:18:46 <fungi> my only real criteria are that the framework uses a compatible free/libre open source copyright license, and that it has an active community with some history of stability so we hopefully don't have to revisit it in 12-24 months
18:18:57 <diablo_rojo> Yeah okay. I can look into which have those libraries.
18:19:30 <SotK> I suspect they all will have adequate things, especially the big 3 of Vue/React/Angular
18:19:32 <diablo_rojo> Yeah. I tried to note users on them too to kinda give an idea of like.. investment and maybe longevity
18:19:52 <diablo_rojo> Yeah I would think so.
18:20:17 <diablo_rojo> In the teeny bit of market research I did, I think Angular was biggest and then Reach and then Vue.
18:20:41 <fungi> s/reach/react/?
18:20:44 <diablo_rojo> That said, Vue is the newest of the three so that should be taken into account when you look at that stuff.
18:20:49 <diablo_rojo> Yeah react
18:20:50 <diablo_rojo> my bad
18:21:09 <fungi> no worries, just making sure i can follow along with my very limited knowledge of the space
18:21:15 <diablo_rojo> Also at contributor numbers.
18:21:42 <SotK> #link https://2020.stateofjs.com/en-US/technologies/front-end-frameworks/
18:21:59 <SotK> that has some interesting stats on users/satisfaction
18:22:13 <diablo_rojo> I think I lean towards React and Vue because they are supposedly more simple and easy to learn than Angular.
18:22:37 <diablo_rojo> That is interesting.
18:22:44 <diablo_rojo> Vue isnt on it though.
18:22:49 <diablo_rojo> Oh wait
18:22:51 <diablo_rojo> I am blind
18:22:52 <diablo_rojo> lol
18:23:42 <SotK> I also lean towards React and Vue
18:23:55 <diablo_rojo> So yeah I guess I lean towards React and Vue and then Angular.
18:24:29 <fungi> react also has the potential to draw on help from the zuul community, as their dashboard rewrite is in react and they use opendev's storyboard deployment for defect and task tracking
18:24:41 <diablo_rojo> Cool. Well then I can dig into those a little more and do some more research on the docs and communities and write up a ML thread to send out to get other feedback/ opinions and we can move forward.
18:24:42 <SotK> they're both nicer to work with than Angular (though its been a long while since I used Angular, and I've only used React a little (and even then using a React-based framework called Next.js))
18:24:49 <diablo_rojo> Ohhhh yeah thats a good point fungi.
18:24:56 <diablo_rojo> Want to add that to the etherpad?
18:25:03 <fungi> happy to
18:25:32 <fungi> where's the etherpad? ;)
18:25:40 <SotK> https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/replace-angularjs-storyboard-research
18:25:48 <fungi> i'm probably blind but not seeing it mentioned in here
18:25:53 <fungi> thanks
18:25:59 <SotK> its some way up in the backscroll :D
18:26:13 <fungi> heh, yeah i'm just blind then ;)
18:26:14 <diablo_rojo> We are chatty folks today
18:26:31 <diablo_rojo> So I guess my action is to write the ML thread and do more research
18:26:42 <diablo_rojo> (on Vue and React)
18:28:08 <SotK> that sounds good to me
18:28:56 <fungi> and really, the ml post can be very, very brief. feel free to just link to the meeting log and etherpad, no need to rehash details
18:29:03 <SotK> +1
18:29:14 <diablo_rojo> Yeah that was my plan.
18:29:28 <fungi> the less work wasted the better
18:29:29 <diablo_rojo> Alright. That's all I had on my work item :)
18:29:39 <diablo_rojo> Gold star for me for actually doing what I planned lol
18:29:54 <fungi> you're showing me up ;)
18:30:14 <fungi> i'll have to improve my game for next week and have something useful to contribute
18:30:14 <diablo_rojo> It doesn't happen often so I will bask in this brief brief moment
18:30:24 <SotK> :D
18:31:05 <SotK> I hope to have at least made a start on containerisation by next week
18:31:28 <diablo_rojo> In the world of hypotheticals, we should do a StoryBoard midcycle at fungi's someday.
18:33:05 <SotK> that sounds like fun, when the after times finally come around
18:34:17 <SotK> #topic Open Discussion
18:34:30 <fungi> yeah, happy to put people up in the guest room, sofa, hammock, whatevs
18:34:59 <fungi> we do have a lot of crash space and lots of bathrooms
18:35:16 <fungi> and wifi
18:35:30 <diablo_rojo> Sounds awesome to me. I bring baking and cooking skills. And happy to run errands as well.
18:35:34 <diablo_rojo> And games too
18:36:32 <fungi> down side is we're not easy to reach (unless you want to come into ffa on a 12-seat charter flight it's ~2 hours by car from ord, the nearest international airport)
18:37:10 <fungi> actually a 12-seater may be pushing it for ffa
18:37:54 <fungi> but if you're a flight engineering buff, it might still be worth it to be able to say that once you landed at the site of the wright brothers' flight tests
18:38:32 <fungi> my house is a 2 mile walk from the airstrip/memorial/museum there
18:38:33 <diablo_rojo> 2 hour drive doesn't bother me.
18:38:42 <diablo_rojo> Thats super cool.
18:39:24 <diablo_rojo> Well I think we have more or less concluded the meeting. I don't have anything else.
18:39:30 <SotK> me neither
18:39:41 <SotK> (though I agree that airfield sounds cool)
18:39:51 <fungi> it's also a fun thing to visit here, along with the largest natural sand dune on the atlantic coast of north america which is ~3 miles from me
18:40:22 <fungi> and we have a museum with bits of blackbeard's ship, which is wrecked just offshore
18:40:44 * fungi takes off his bureau of tourism hat
18:41:05 <diablo_rojo> Oh man that is awesome too
18:41:07 <SotK> :D
18:41:13 <SotK> sounds like a super interesting place to live
18:41:18 <SotK> #endmeeting