14:04:10 #startmeeting tc 14:04:11 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-January/002231.html agenda for this meeting 14:04:11 Meeting started Thu Mar 7 14:04:10 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:04:12 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:04:15 The meeting name has been set to 'tc' 14:04:16 #topic roll call 14:04:16 tc-members (new and old) please indicate if you are present for the logs 14:04:24 o/ 14:04:26 bonjour o/ 14:04:27 o/ 14:04:28 \o/ 14:04:28 o/ 14:04:29 \o 14:04:29 o/ hola 14:04:29 o/ 14:05:06 o/ 14:05:17 o/ 14:05:23 aloha 14:05:30 o/ 14:05:58 ok, we have 11 of 13 so far so we have quorum. 14:06:01 i'm here for nostalgia 14:06:07 #topic TC election results 14:06:10 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/641171/ 14:06:29 I workflowed the patch to update the membership this morning, and updated the gerrit group yesterday 14:06:36 if anyone has trouble using the rollcall vote, let me know 14:06:42 thanks! 14:06:56 thank you dhellmann 14:07:09 thank you to cdent, dims, and smcginnis for serving on the TC! 14:07:10 welcome asettle, jroll, and ricolin as new members! 14:07:11 and welcome back mugsie, mnaser, ttx, and zaneb, thank you for continuing to serve 14:07:17 \o/ 14:07:26 :D 14:07:27 and thanks also bauzas and flwang 14:07:28 Thanks pal 14:07:33 dhellmann, thanks! happy to be here 14:07:36 yes, good point, zaneb 14:07:39 heh was a pleasure to run 14:07:42 welcome to the new tc members! 14:07:53 \o/ 14:07:58 welcome :) 14:08:07 welcome 14:08:14 and thanks everyone 14:08:17 and congrats to the new elected members one more time :) 14:08:30 Thank you all :) 14:08:52 bauzas: next time let me know you'll run ni advance, so that I can safely skip! 14:09:08 #topic new chair for train 14:09:09 As I mentioned last month, I will stepping down as chair. 14:09:10 I'm not sure to run again but i note ;) 14:09:10 We have mnaser's self-nomination to act as chair. 14:09:11 I would like to have the chair either selected or the voting started by the end of today. 14:09:12 If anyone else wants to run, now is the time to announce it. 14:09:19 If we have no other candidates, we can approve mnaser during the meeting. 14:10:18 ok, everyone please go cast a rollcall vote on that application 14:10:18 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/641405/1 14:10:18 hesitating to do a bad joke about furniture right now. 14:10:58 evrardjp: there is no bad time for a furniture joke 14:12:35 evrardjp, don't leave us hanging man 14:12:49 good, now I'm waiting for that joke haha 14:13:13 * bauzas won't say anything about Belgian jokes 14:13:31 looking for jroll and evrardjp to cast their votes... 14:13:43 * jroll just returned, sorry 14:13:52 still thinking :) 14:14:04 +1'd 14:14:21 evrardjp: I think your launch window just closed 14:16:00 ok, there we go 14:16:31 thank you, mnaser, for volunteering to chair 14:16:47 thanks mnaser 14:16:49 thanks a ton mnaser! 14:17:08 congratulations mnaser 14:17:09 I'll finish out this meeting, and then mnaser will pick up duties from there 14:17:16 Yay mnaser 14:17:19 congrats mnaser 14:17:22 thank you all, look forward to serving as chair for the upcoming session 14:17:28 mnaser, congrats 14:17:30 or condolences ;) 14:17:44 mnaser: RIP any free time you may have had left :) 14:17:55 but thanks for stepping up 14:17:59 thanks mnaser! 14:18:08 I expect big things mnaser 14:18:27 :) 14:18:41 mugsie: he did not have nay free time left already, so nothing lost 14:18:55 any* 14:19:09 indeed 14:19:15 * dhellmann thought ttx was working on his 18th century english accent 14:19:18 ok, let's start with old business 14:19:26 #topic project team evaluations based on technical vision 14:19:27 aye aye sir 14:19:32 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-January/001417.html 14:19:40 last month cdent took the action to "republish the projects review vision notion" 14:19:49 is there anything new to report this month? 14:20:25 there was a lot of discusson in email, (on the new thread), but not much actionable 14:20:25 I think TheJulia was also working on this? 14:21:09 ok. do we have a next step to record, is this an ongoing thing, or is it "done"? 14:21:10 I have noticed some projects have taken to drafting such documents 14:21:13 #link feb thread on that http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-February/002524.html 14:21:28 oh, thanks, I linked to the old thread there 14:21:39 But only in passing, I simply have not had time to look. 14:21:54 should we carry it over to next month and check in again? 14:21:56 I have asked some projects I am involved in to react on this, but didn't actively query for feedback every week. I probably should 14:22:00 I have been meaning to review/comment on stuff that has come up, but the elections, travel &c. sucked up all of the time I would have had to do that 14:22:05 perhaps someone else wants to volunteer to help with this? 14:22:32 carry on to next month? 14:22:34 dhellmann: sounds reasonable unless someone else wants to take a look across the community. Maybe it would be a good thing to check for with health assessments 14:22:48 TheJulia: ++ 14:23:05 TheJulia: I think it would be wise as an additional thing to query 14:23:09 yeah, i'm good with the idea that we got the ball rolling down hill and the rest of the community is picking it up 14:23:09 evrardjp : sorry, carry the agenda item over to the next meeting and discuss it again 14:23:27 TheJulia: good idea about adding it in health check 14:23:35 it makes for a good touchpoint in health checks and as a guiding document when evaluating fit for new projects 14:23:39 Yeah, another project just mentioned that they had just uploaded theirs into review, so seems like the ball is rolling 14:23:41 dhellmann: sorry, I meant I was okay with it... :p 14:23:53 but not with 100% certainty 14:23:54 evrardjp : ah, sorry, I thought my idiom wasn't clear 14:24:04 yup, got it afterwards :p 14:24:28 i don't think the tc really has any further actions to take on it unless the community brings them to us in the form of edits or future discussions? 14:24:43 fungi: true 14:25:06 fungi: agree, I think all we can do is encourage folks to do it 14:25:16 I concur 14:25:23 it seems like they're starting to encourage each other to do it at this point 14:25:32 so smells like success to me 14:25:49 i think it would be good for someone to compile a list of the projects that have done it 14:25:54 maybe worth tracking, but not sure it needs formal follow-up. I guess quick reviews of the uptake for another month or two doesn't hurt, though 14:26:08 perhaps slot in somewhere inside openstack/governance to link out to those documents/reviews generated? 14:26:19 oh, interesting, yeah 14:26:22 mnaser: collaborative edit on etherpad or something? 14:26:35 mnaser: oh good idea there, better than etherpad 14:26:38 If a formal follow-up is required, nothing to say it can't be an in person discussion point at the forum. 14:26:42 I like that idea 14:26:53 mugsie: which one? 14:26:54 might be worth a reminder email, i feel like it would have gone in one ear and out the other if i wasn't so much following the tc activity 14:26:54 etherpad might be hard to find and navigate. i think slotting it somewhere in the governance repo might be useful so that other projects that want to write up their own can see how others have done it 14:27:04 links off the o.o/goverance 14:27:07 fungi: that is a good observation, I do agree. 14:27:09 cmurphy : good point 14:27:11 cmurphy: I think that's what indeed happened 14:27:12 +1 14:27:19 cmurphy: +1 14:27:35 are we just encouraging teams to do this, or requiring? 14:27:38 ok, so it sounds like we want a reminder email and to compile links to existing work. who wants to volunteer to do that? 14:27:40 encouraging 14:27:42 * jroll assumes the former 14:27:44 ok, thanks 14:28:07 * dhellmann wonders where all of the active "go getters" who just ran in the election are when it comes time to volunteer 14:28:08 i think we have two action items: slot in a spot in openstack/governance to add them, and use the review that adds it in there to say "hey, thanks projects who did this, we've added your to this document, and for projects that haven't done it, you've got some examples" 14:28:08 and add to the forum ideas pad if it's not there already (thanks asettle!) 14:28:13 adding the forum sessions and explain/remind teams why and what they should do 14:28:18 yeah 14:28:31 fungi, gmann - writing up a short thing now 14:28:40 thanks 14:28:42 you rock 14:29:05 dhellmann: I, for one, am trying to avoid getting to involved in this one for fear that the vision will be seen as just my thing 14:29:11 so asettle is going to write the reminder 14:29:13 asettle: thanks! 14:29:16 zaneb : that's reasonable 14:29:16 mnaser: in teams.py for example? 14:29:21 Hey yo what 14:29:26 :P 14:29:34 "join the TC" they said 14:29:41 so for adding to governance we likely need an externalized discussion on where to extend the data model (please not in-meeting) 14:29:41 lol 14:29:45 "you won't be bullied into writing emails" they said 14:29:49 evrardjp: the details are to be discussed, we just want to find someone to own that action 14:29:54 fungi : or we could just link from the vision page itself 14:29:57 I'm happy to help with this, but am traveling next week so it'll be the following week at the earliest 14:30:08 asettle: "it will be fun" they said ?:) 14:30:11 ^^ ditto, I'm afraid. I'm off 10 - 18 for SUSE 14:30:14 jroll: welcome to the club 14:30:25 dhellmann: hah, i said please not in meeting! (that gets us yet another different place we list arbitrary projects/deliverables) 14:30:34 TheJulia, you asking who said that or why I'm already making those comments? :p 14:30:34 ok, I think we have a couple of volunteers then. I'll leave it for mnaser to follow up with asettle and jroll on this 14:30:48 Cool 14:30:54 asettle: no, more remarking similar discussions 14:30:55 wfm, thanks in advance for the reminder mnaser :P 14:31:09 anything else before we move on? 14:31:17 #action mnaser follow up with asettle and jroll on reminder and placement of links for vision alignment docs 14:31:27 #topic defining the role of the TC 14:31:31 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Technical_Committee_Tracker#Next_steps_in_TC_Vision_.2F_defining_role_of_the_TC 14:31:37 last month we talked about syncing with zaneb when he returned from the volcano 14:31:41 and that we needed to do that before settling on next steps 14:31:41 ohai 14:31:45 ttx, TheJulia, cdent, do you have an update on this? 14:32:23 We merged a small change iirc around the wording for technical direction 14:32:30 Merged openstack/governance master: Add Mohammed Naser nomination as chair https://review.openstack.org/641405 14:32:31 ah, yes, we did 14:32:31 good change 14:32:35 I feel like we've had some good discussions on the ML about this over the course of the election 14:32:40 #link giant thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-January/001711.html 14:32:41 which was the only major missing point expressed 14:32:51 and the election discussion was _very_ good 14:33:05 i blame cdent for the election discussion 14:33:10 cdent: would you say other changes are needed to capture that discussion? 14:33:14 * cdent accepts that blame 14:33:26 I felt like it reinforced the current wording more than it objected to it 14:33:33 not at this stage, no, but I'm expecting a lot from the newly elected people :) 14:33:48 * cdent accepts the blame for setting high expectations 14:33:54 Now is a good moment to re-explain that it is meant as a living document 14:34:13 basically, our role can evolve or be precised. 14:34:16 #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/role-of-the-tc.html 14:35:02 * jroll needs to read back through that doc and the ML discussion 14:35:06 BUT at this point I'd focus on doing a better job at the described role, rather than necessarily in evolving it 14:35:09 it sounds like this is an ongoing discussion, but can come off of the tracker for now, then? 14:35:22 "Defining global technical goals" for example is not somethign we excel at 14:35:27 while it is part of our role 14:35:40 which is why I followed-up with a Forum session proposal 14:35:43 yes, I agree there 14:37:03 I'm not very inspired today and time is running out, so feel free to evolve the proposal in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-Train-TC-brainstorming 14:37:10 so, next steps are the forum session? 14:37:15 or is it safe to remove this from the tracker? 14:37:23 I'd say next step forum session 14:37:35 ok 14:37:45 actually... 14:37:58 well, it is a different thing to defining the role 14:38:05 ttx, diablo_rojo: fyi, from a foundation/organization pov .. it could be nice if we somehow could be slotted a seperate time for our sessions so PTLs can easily attend. 14:38:08 I would close the "define role" task and open a new "how to drive technical change" one? 14:38:18 ok 14:38:20 our = TC 14:38:26 it is work on how we do the thing we said we are supposed to do effectvily 14:38:28 ttx++ 14:38:31 +1 on mnaser 14:38:31 #action ttx close the role defining task and create a "driving technical change" task 14:38:50 The role is defined, the task is more on how to do a better job at one of the facets of our role 14:38:56 agreed with ttx too 14:39:00 +1 14:39:07 +1 on that 14:39:09 do we have a second volunteer to help ttx with that forum session? 14:39:15 having 0% overlap with other forum sessions is probably not achievable. ptls are going to need to delegate folks to attend one or the other in some cases 14:39:40 dhellmann: help how so? moderate? 14:39:40 we basically have a total of 2.5 days for forum sessions 14:39:49 let's stay on topic please 14:39:55 TheJulia : yes, plan and moderate 14:40:18 dhellmann: I can help 14:40:26 thanks zaneb 14:40:28 #undo 14:40:29 Removing item from minutes: #action ttx close the role defining task and create a "driving technical change" task 14:40:36 #action ttx and zaneb close the role defining task and create a "driving technical change" task 14:40:42 I was going to say that I'm likely a risk to try and commit to help ttx as I'm already over-committed. 14:40:43 #undo 14:40:44 Removing item from minutes: #action ttx and zaneb close the role defining task and create a "driving technical change" task 14:41:03 zaneb: I'll do the task update dance 14:41:08 #action ttx and zaneb close the role defining task and create a "driving technical change" task and forum session 14:41:09 * dhellmann will get it right eventually 14:41:10 ok, we have a few more topics to cover 14:41:11 #topic keeping up with python 3 releases 14:41:12 stand by for paste bomb 14:41:12 ttx: ack, thanks 14:41:16 we had several tasks for this last month 14:41:16 #info gmann raise the topic of porting legacy jobs to bionic on the mailing list 14:41:16 #info fungi to propose flag day for proposing moving centrally managed jobs to bionic 14:41:17 #info fungi propose a default node flag day to switch to ubuntu bionic 14:41:18 #info TheJulia investigate PTI updates for Train 14:41:22 is there anything else to be done for either stein or train? 14:41:58 dhellmann: we only need to update the page to say it is the same for train AFAIK. I looked everything up during the last meeting and haven't had time to actually put the patch in 14:41:59 there's a *lot* of confusion around Stein because we didn't announce anything at the start of the cycle 14:42:26 I think we really need to come up with some sort of statement on what to do 14:42:42 even if it's "you're on your own until Train opens" 14:42:54 s/same for train/same as stein as for train/ 14:43:08 we're getting very close to the cut-off deadline for the release, so I agree we should clarify 14:43:10 who wants to take the lead on resolving the stein question? 14:43:15 (we'll talk train next) 14:43:43 I think we actually need to talk Train first, and work back 14:43:49 * dhellmann feels his chair powers waning 14:44:01 ok 14:44:02 zaneb: please clarify? 14:44:12 zaneb: yes, clarity ++ 14:44:17 ^ 14:44:22 i think those best placed to take an action moving forward are those who have been working on this topic 14:44:46 yes, but it is clear we have differing expecatations and understandings 14:44:47 like, if we know what it's going to look like for Train, then it's pretty easy to tell people where we're heading and therefore what they should do right now 14:44:57 you mean to consolidate the items we are doing in stein as overall or as python3 work 14:44:59 so we need to resolve that before we move off the topic, otherwise we risk the same thing happening in the next meeting 14:45:08 that makes sense 14:45:11 should we call for an ad-hoc meeting to _discuss_ the python3 issue? 14:45:27 fine for me mnaser 14:45:30 right now we don't know if the Bionic migration will get completed before Train opens, so we don't know what will fall out of the formula in the resolution 14:45:36 mnaser : that works for me, do you want to set that up? 14:45:51 zaneb: but did we not do that with the PTI and the documentation related to it? 14:46:05 yes, i can set it up. i think this is something we need to flush out asap. can i get some times that work for those that were involved in this? 14:46:09 ok 14:46:21 #action mnaser to set up a meeting to discuss the python 3 transition plans for stein and train 14:46:28 +1 on ad-hoc meeting 14:46:35 i'm free at 1700z today 14:46:47 if we assume that gmann will be successful in getting everyone migrated to Bionic, then we can announce the release goal for Train ~now 14:47:09 we have 3 more topics, so let's do the planning in office hours 14:47:10 #topic Train cycle goals selection update 14:47:11 lbragstad and evrardjp, how is that process going? 14:47:22 at this point, we have two goals in review making it easier for us to use the normal review flow with Gerrit 14:47:22 evrardjp and I sent a note to the mailing list summarizing next steps 14:47:33 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-March/003549.html 14:48:00 and it is generating discussion 14:48:03 it looks like we really only have 2 contenders for train, then? 14:48:08 correct 14:48:12 at least up to this point 14:48:17 with the possibility of the platform upgrade item from the last topic 14:48:27 maybe that's a third 14:48:34 ok 14:48:42 fwiw - those two goals were the ones with the most pre-work done 14:49:08 #action tc-members review candidate goals and provide feedback 14:49:18 do we have reviews that we want to link to? 14:49:29 or a topic, or something to point to 14:49:44 #link project deletion goal proposal https://review.openstack.org/639010 14:50:08 #link openstack client goal proposal https://review.openstack.org/639376 14:50:16 ++ thanks dhellmann 14:50:38 lbragstad , evrardjp : do you have anything else on this topic? 14:50:41 do we also have an ideal timeline to have this merged by? 14:51:07 we sent the timeline in a previous email about the goal selection process for train 14:51:10 but let me find the date 14:51:15 I feel like both had valid objections posted on them already that need to generate another patchset 14:51:42 lbragstad , evrardjp : perhaps it would be good to remind the goal champions of those timelines 14:51:48 mnaser we'd like to have the goals merged, if possible, by the end of this month 14:51:52 dhellmann: fair 14:52:01 ok, great, will keep in mind. thanks 14:52:04 that gives teams 4 weeks to work the goals into their PTG schedules 14:52:09 #action lbragstad and evrardjp to remind champions for proposed goals of the approval deadlines 14:52:27 #action mnaser follow-up with progress of goal merging in 2 weeks 14:53:03 the last thing we want is to merge something *right* before we're all in denver and not be able to leverage face-to-face time 14:53:09 remember that having a goal approved by the end of the month needs to include the time that patch needs to sit open for comments 14:53:10 ok, good 14:53:11 yeah, I think we wouldn't do that 14:53:24 in our last few minutes... 14:53:25 #topic forum planning 14:53:30 gmann has started collecting ideas for forum sessions we need to ensure happen 14:53:33 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-Train-TC-brainstorming 14:53:37 who is planning to attend? 14:53:43 remember the joint leadership meeting is the sunday before the summit 14:53:50 o/ 14:53:51 o/ 14:53:54 o/ 14:53:54 o/ 14:53:55 o/ 14:53:57 o/ 14:53:58 I won't be at the summit, unfortunately :( 14:53:59 o/ 14:54:01 o/ 14:54:02 o/ 14:54:03 #link board meeting schedule https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation#OpenStack_Board_of_Director_Meetings 14:54:09 i'll be there 14:54:13 o/ 14:54:20 Will be there 14:54:23 jroll :-( 14:54:49 yeah we have good amount of forum ideas. deadline is 10th which is sunday so i will say we propose or give feedback on existing topic by today and start proposing on site by tomorrow. 14:54:51 dhellmann: is it morning BoD, afternoon Joint meeting? 14:54:58 jroll: :'( 14:55:19 mugsie: I don't have a schedule yet 14:55:29 gmann: sounds like a good timeline 14:55:32 I'm sure Alan will share that with mnaser as soon as it is available 14:55:36 Likely something like that schedule based on past ones. 14:55:49 pro tip: set a watch on that foundation page in the wiki for notifications of updates 14:55:53 afaik it's a full day type of thing, but no hard schedule yet 14:56:34 dhellmann: thanks for the tip 14:56:39 gmann : ok, that's important, if we need to be giving the feedback today 14:56:48 i will remind moderators (or ask for moderators if any topic missing ) to do that tomorrow. 14:57:10 #action tc-members review forum proposals today/tomorrow in time to meet the selection deadline 14:57:14 small note 14:57:15 has anyone booked travel yet, by the way? would people be open to coming a day before (say, saturday) to have something similar to what we did last time in denver? 14:57:15 one topic is "U goal discussion" as PTG and summit merged so we should discuss in this summit ? 14:57:35 otherwise next physical meetup will be around start of U cycle 14:57:38 mnaser : I've booked my flight, but could probably change it 14:57:51 I plan on arriving Saturday. 14:57:52 mnaser: booked my flight, can't change it. 14:57:53 although that's going to make for a *very* long week 14:57:54 mnaser: I would be 14:57:57 mnaser i'll be in sometime on saturday 14:58:00 I arrive Saturday afternoon 14:58:03 mnaser: i will be there on sat but for OUI training 14:58:06 mnaser: I booked my flight and could also possibly change if needed, I think I'm already arriving on saturday and I'm also in boston the week following :\ 14:58:08 i haven't booked yet but intend to get in on saturday 14:58:14 I'll be there early and likely have time on Sat afternoon/evening 14:58:26 alright, well, i'll bring up an ML thread and we can discuss options, we would need to involve foundation staff for logistics 14:58:30 sat might not even be possibly logistically 14:58:33 mnaser, haven't booked but would do the Saturday anyway I'd say. Jet lag + Alex = No 14:58:37 but i assume folks are interested in something like that, right? 14:58:55 yeah, I think the last one in DEN was useful 14:58:57 there is no rule saying we can't concur someplace with enough room to chat, it just might not be a meeting roomm. 14:59:08 perhaps we could at least meet for a long dinner on saturday? 14:59:10 TheJulia: ++ 14:59:12 a dinner worked well in barcelona 14:59:19 sounds like a good idea. 14:59:21 +1 to that 14:59:34 +1 14:59:40 A dinner oriented meeting does seem like a much better idea 14:59:46 * dhellmann lands at 7:00 PM local time and will be hungry 14:59:48 cool. i'll bring this to ml / office hours 14:59:48 +1 14:59:53 * dhellmann may already be hungry 14:59:58 yeah, depending on how flights work out going west 15:00:03 ok, one more quick item 15:00:03 bunch of hangry TC members 15:00:05 what could go wrong 15:00:07 but go on 15:00:07 I will do the aquarium diving thing on saturday, but that's not conflict with dinner for sure 15:00:13 #topic OIP review process 15:00:17 2 days ago the board approved the Open Infrastructure Project acceptance criteria/process 15:00:19 part of the process includes consulting with leadership of existing projects, including the TC 15:00:23 jbryce has asked us to think about how we would want that consultation step to work 15:00:28 I don't think we need to give an answer right this second, but please spend some time thinking about it 15:00:42 #action tc-members think about a process for handling consultations on OIP applications 15:00:54 * mnaser will engage with osf staff to how we can do this best 15:01:09 I know many people have many opinions on this one, so I look forward to the future discussion 15:01:11 #topic next meeting 15:01:13 #info the next TC meeting will be 4 April 2019 1400 UTC in #openstack-tc 15:01:17 If you have suggestions for topics for the next meeting, please add them to the wiki at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions 15:01:17 we also need to look out for the OIP execustive session review thread 15:01:33 executive* 15:01:56 Thank you, everyone! I have enjoyed serving as chair for the last 2 terms and I look forward to continuing to serve as a TC member through Train. 15:02:00 dhellmann i'd like to say thanks for the outstanding job you've done as the TC chair 15:02:15 dhellmann: thanks for serving 15:02:15 indeed, thanks once again 15:02:16 best chair ever! 15:02:17 ++ 15:02:22 thanks dhellmann! 15:02:22 thanks dhellmann 15:02:32 much appreciated dhellmann 15:02:33 Thank you dhellmann !!! 15:02:43