14:00:05 #startmeeting tc 14:00:06 Meeting started Thu Jun 6 14:00:05 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asettle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00:09 The meeting name has been set to 'tc' 14:00:16 o/ 14:00:17 \o 14:00:22 #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee 14:00:22 o/ 14:00:22 o/ 14:00:29 Rolling the call... 14:00:30 \o/ 14:00:35 o/ 14:00:35 o/ 14:00:42 Will give a minute before jumping right into it 14:00:43 o/ 14:00:44 * fungi rollcalls like a mouseketeer 14:00:50 o/ 14:01:15 o/ 14:01:30 o/ 14:01:30 Entirely inappropriate but I do love a good gif-fuelled meeting. Let it be known that I am very welcoming of reaction gifs in my hosted meetings. 14:01:48 Alright! 14:01:54 * mugsie opens http://replygif.net/ on 2nd display 14:02:02 #topic Changes to the health check process 14:02:10 The suggestion was to remove the formality of "health checks" and focus on TC members being liaisons to projects in an effort to help manage a project's health (if required). 14:02:18 We need to assign TC members to teams on the project team page. fungi offered to update the wiki, and asettle offered to update the ML on this change once the wiki was updated. 14:02:28 For everyone's memory to be jogged... 14:02:30 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tc-train-ptg 14:02:42 Line 62 were our action items assigned from the PTG 14:02:44 yep, was mostly waiting for the recap to make sure before forging ahead on that task 14:02:51 * asettle nods 14:03:15 In summary: we're moving away from the rigidity of the "health checks" for each project, and going to focus on "liaising" with different teams 14:03:27 Seems reasonable 14:03:39 didn't we also discuss moving the roster of liaisons out of the wiki? 14:03:42 The suggestion was that each TC member is assigned a group of projects. Minimum effort required would be an introductory email, and the wiki to keep track of tehse assignments 14:03:46 fungi: we did 14:03:48 fungi, yes but in favor of ^^ 14:03:59 The SIGs are to be included in the team health checks 14:04:05 fungi: we did indeed 14:04:11 just making sure 14:04:14 Governance docs to be updated - mnaser (but this to be done after we've announced and formalised) 14:04:15 I have a patch somewhere I wrote on the plane for that, will get ti uploaded. 14:04:20 Thanks mugsie 14:04:23 it looks like we need an action item to move that list of liaisons 14:04:37 hope liaisons things work which was not so successful till now for example- horizontal projects like QA 14:04:53 the issue I had was getting the info attached to sigs, as they are not defined in our repo, but i can start with projects to begin with 14:05:05 mugsie, that would be helpful 14:05:16 Do we want to assign action items in this meeting or continue to ref the etherpad? 14:05:22 right, aiui, the wiki article will go to just being at most a few brief sentences and a breadcrumb trail leading to the liaisons info on the governance site 14:05:30 fungi: ++ 14:05:30 * asettle nods 14:05:45 asettle: I think in the etherpad is best (to keep it consistant) 14:05:47 Does anyone have any concerns about being "assigned" projects to introduce yourself and informally liase with? 14:05:50 mugsie, cool sounds good to me 14:05:59 i vote for setting up action items during this 14:06:00 no concerns here 14:06:10 mnaser, you're the boss 14:06:25 #action fungi to update wiki 14:06:28 yeah action item are more useful and clear 14:06:38 #action asettle to update community via openstack-discuss 14:06:41 it's just easier to consume for all of us afterwards (or at least i think :]) 14:06:51 from a standpoint of simplicity of implementation, liaisons can presumably be added to the projects.yaml and then rendered from that 14:06:59 fungi: that was my plan 14:07:02 #action mugsie to update his patch 14:07:11 awesome 14:07:13 I like that idea, fungi 14:07:23 I think thats what i wrote, but it is on my open source laptop :) 14:07:30 wasn't my idea, i don't think. or if it was it came up diring the ptg anyway 14:07:40 Who wants to/has time to randomly assign individuals to projects in the projects.yaml file? 14:07:41 mugsie : are you updating tools/assign_liaisons.py or are we dropping that? 14:07:53 dhellmann: I had not considered that 14:08:02 i seems like a godo thing to update 14:08:05 good* 14:08:17 i wonder if it needs much/any updating 14:08:36 it probably just needs to update and do yaml changes to projects.yaml 14:08:38 i suppose it could be improved to generate a patch to the projects.yaml with randomly-assigned liaisons 14:08:40 well, it spits out wiki formatted text today to be pasted into the wiki. it doesn't modify projects.yaml 14:08:40 just to write out the info in the yaml file possibly? But thats a CR issue for later :) 14:08:41 i can pick that up. 14:08:57 probably not a top priority, either way 14:08:58 #action mnaser to update yaml file with liaisons 14:09:03 Brilliant okay 14:09:07 ANy further questions or actions for this topic? 14:09:20 I think that last action isn't right. 14:09:28 Oh, there's a lot going on here 14:09:30 mnaser said he would update the tool, but mugsie is already updating the yaml 14:09:36 Ah my bad 14:09:41 #undo 14:09:42 How does one erase an action? 14:09:42 you can #undo an #action 14:09:47 OH neat 14:09:54 just #undo on a line by itself 14:10:03 #undo #action mnaser to update yaml file with liaisons 14:10:04 Removing item from minutes: #action mnaser to update yaml file with liaisons 14:10:21 #action mugsie update yaml file with liaisons 14:10:27 #action mnaser to update the tool 14:10:31 Okay, sorry folks 14:10:34 i think it ignores everything after the #undo regardless, but that works ;) 14:10:49 just undoes whatever the last command was 14:10:53 Oh 14:10:57 Well now it's definitely undo 14:10:59 undone* 14:11:00 So, win win 14:11:01 Right! 14:11:03 Anything else? 14:11:25 No rest for the wicked here people 14:11:36 keep it movin' 14:11:49 #topic Evolution of the help-most-needed list 14:11:58 this was discussed and decided to become an uncapped list, adding docs surrounding annual re-submission for items. We will go through the action items on this list (line 84 of the etherpad). Business cases requiring updates. 14:12:15 #link https://review.opendev.org/657447 14:12:15 gmann, provided an update the other day, thanks gmann 14:12:23 zaneb, be doing a thang 14:12:24 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2019-June/006890.html 14:12:27 Look at us 14:12:33 review above is to change the name and format 14:12:39 ttx, update on the survey changes? 14:12:52 there are a couple of reviews left that are looking for reviews 14:12:54 evrardjp, ping for this discussion 14:12:55 evrardjp and I had a discussion yesterday on how to move forward 14:12:59 s/reviews/patches/ 14:13:14 zaneb, TL;DR please for the purpose of the meeting :) 14:13:14 zaneb: +1 thanks for that. 14:13:21 his suggestion was to copy the existing ones into a 2018 directory 14:13:25 i think we should keep old list till we fill items in new structure. 14:13:25 err 14:13:41 also we have an etherpad to start working on massaging them into the new format 14:13:44 zaneb: and with same url right ? 14:13:49 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/2019-upstream-investment-opportunities-refactor 14:14:11 Individuals have stepped up to refactor. Anything require volunteers still, zaneb ? 14:14:13 we should - myself and wendar have already talked to Oregan State University about this, and I would prefer not to delete the content as we are talking to them 14:14:16 gmann: no. only the 2019 stuff will be linked directly from the page (until next year) 14:14:27 asettle: which survey changes ? 14:14:51 ttx, action item on the etherpad for this topic on line 86: Suggest adding questions in user survey (ttx) 14:14:52 ok, but till we fill new items, old link will keep pointing to old list ? 14:14:58 We discussed adding TC questions and iirc came up with a shortlist 14:15:01 yeah, also we don't plan to merge that review until we have content to go up 14:15:17 +1 14:15:32 dhellmann: did you drive that TC questions in survey effort? 14:15:33 ttx, anything further on that one? 14:15:38 ISTR you did 14:15:53 still need volunteers to rework the existing text from that etherpad into investment opportunities instead of begging for help :) 14:15:55 (I did suggest it, they said of course, and we did come up with questions) 14:15:58 I think "what projects do you contribute to" and a "what is stopping you contributing" were two (just a lot better worded) 14:16:16 that sounds right 14:16:22 zaneb so - expanding the value section, right? 14:16:26 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tc-user-survey-2019 14:16:34 aha 14:16:40 ttx, gracias 14:16:49 so are those in a state we can get them in front of osf staff maintaining the survey? 14:17:03 not taking any credit for teh questions as someone else [tm] drove that :) 14:17:14 zaneb, we probably need someone who is more business minded than our techy selves for that. That was half the problem in the first place. 14:17:17 lbragstad: more just putting it front and centre. there's a template: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/657447/3/reference/upstream-investment-opportunities/template 14:17:31 zaneb - if you point me to the etherpad with some simple instructions and timeframe (deadline) I'm happy to help with the text 14:17:42 AlanClark: good to hear :) 14:17:53 woo, a great volunteer. thanks AlanClark! 14:17:54 AlanClark: thanks! https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/2019-upstream-investment-opportunities-refactor 14:17:55 #action AlanClark to help update investment opportunities document in etherpad. 14:18:03 thanks AlanClark 14:18:04 #action zaneb to liaise with AlanClark and provide appropriate deadline 14:18:04 ttx: yes, the question was added to the survey 14:18:07 AlanClark: thanks. really very helpful 14:18:21 Okay, anything further on this item? 14:18:35 lbragstad, zaneb evrardjp ? 14:18:37 nope 14:18:43 * lbragstad doesn't have anything 14:18:46 Smashing 14:18:48 i like how this is shaping up 14:18:48 ONWARDS 14:18:50 nope 14:18:55 nothing from me 14:18:58 #topic Goal selection is changing 14:19:06 The way goals are being selected for the upcoming release will change. For Train, we will work on socialising the idea of proposing goals that are OpenStack-wide, but not tech-heavy. The new goal selection process splits the goals into "goal" and "implementation". Further details at the meeting. See line 101 of the etherpad for action items. 14:19:34 I have not moved on this yet - I need to transcribe my notes into a patch 14:19:42 Thank you mugsie 14:19:56 For those who were not in the room, any questions on why/what is happening here before we dive into action items? 14:20:08 Specifically looking at jroll and TheJulia 14:20:15 and gmann 14:20:45 not much idea on details. but waiting for mugsie patch to get into details and discussion 14:20:50 Good plan, stan 14:20:59 what was the sequence we came up with for approving these? 14:21:05 mugsie, do you have an estimation on when you'd be able to update? 14:21:06 I don't remember why we said new goals would not be "tech heavy" can someone remind me of that? 14:21:12 dhellmann, oh that was me 14:21:27 * zaneb doesn't remember that either 14:21:30 asettle: Nothing from my end, the notes made sense to me 14:21:37 I don't see the problem we're solving written on the etherpad, so it's hard to understand what we're trying to accomplish by changing the process 14:21:40 Socialising goals so that individuals realise ANYONE can propose a goal (AKA PDF goal)_ 14:21:43 also Train is like fully underway... 14:21:44 It was about socialisation of the goal process 14:21:50 I wrote it badly in the agenda, sorry. I was in a rush 14:22:04 ah, so proposals do not need to have all of the implementation details? 14:22:11 zaneb: I thought this was for post train? 14:22:17 that bit does seem familiar, as a way to have goal ideas collected earlier 14:22:18 we received feedback from people saying they were surprised that the goal wasn't super focused on writing code 14:22:23 dhellmann: yeah, for the first stage (thats what I have in my notes anyway) 14:22:25 mugsie: that would make more sense 14:22:27 :) 14:22:28 dhellmann, of sorts, yes. And also that a goal can *be* anything, as long as it applies across the whole community 14:22:37 i'm assuming the plan is still not to approve the goal part before there's any implementation written (even if we approve it assuming we'll discover that the implementation needs further refinement on the ground) 14:22:37 lbragstad, yes thank you 14:22:46 asettle : ok, thanks for clarifying 14:22:57 fungi: yeah, thats what I understood 14:23:09 #action asettle to clarify "tech-heavy" in the agenda. 14:23:13 okay, seems i remembered correctly then 14:23:22 the etherpad was vague on the process change 14:23:48 jroll - it was a retrospective, less of a problem. We talked about the fact we had very limited goal proposals, and we had to push really hard for those. 14:23:53 It seems like themes versus highly specific things 14:23:54 This was a discussion around the process, and how we could improve it. 14:23:54 it will be good we can write details on etherpad and then take those on gerrit ? 14:24:12 I like that idea, gmann - mugsie would this be okay? 14:24:26 jroll: if i haven't completely imagined it, the idea was this would allow us to apply different sorts of review rules to the goal text vs the implementation plan 14:24:39 it would be good for someone to prune the https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/community-goals etherpad, too, since we've done some of those things 14:24:47 also i remember from joint leadership meeting discussion that AlanClark or someone from BoD mentioned about helping on those goal ideas ? how we can accommodate that process? 14:24:52 Any takers? 14:24:57 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/community-goals 14:25:04 o/ 14:25:07 gmann: there was a thread on the foundation list about that 14:25:08 i can take a stab at it 14:25:17 #action lbragstad to prune the community-goals etherpad 14:25:19 I saw that the BoD were interested in suggesting some goals on the foundation list 14:25:20 zaneb: ohk, thanks will check 14:25:20 thank you 14:25:42 fungi: thanks, that makes some amount of sense. seems like a lot of work for a review rules optimization, but I guess folks seem eager to do it so /shrug 14:25:57 yeah, goal suggestions welcome from everyone in the community, including board members ;) 14:26:01 Aye 14:26:07 Right - any further action items here or questions? 14:26:20 nope 14:26:29 jroll: the hope is that it reduces the actual work of iterating on goal implementation plans 14:26:38 gmann - I am interested in having the board participate on the goal ideas. 14:26:39 okay 14:26:40 i'm good 14:26:44 thanks fungi 14:27:08 AlanClark: +1. 14:27:31 AlanClark, that's great to hear. Let's talk about that after this meeting and ensure the board is aware of how the ycan do that. The process is open to them now. 14:27:34 #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation-board/2019-May/000501.html foundation-board thread on proposing themese 14:27:48 Okay, let's skidads - we're only halfway through 14:27:53 #link https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6wrBG9xOvMrVsp3i/giphy.gif 14:28:04 #topic Pop-up teams 14:28:12 Officially recognised and implemented into governance thanks to ttx. 14:28:19 well not approved yet 14:28:19 Everyone please review 14:28:21 #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/661356/ 14:28:29 And I'm missing the link handy to the other one, sorry ttx 14:28:35 just posted a fix for your suggestions asettle 14:28:46 ttx, yes I saw :) thanks for doin that. I'll review again shortly. 14:28:47 the other one is linked from the first one 14:28:56 Neat. Any questions on the pop-up teams? 14:29:39 #link adding image encryption as a popup team https://review.opendev.org/#/c/661983/2 14:29:42 Thanks for those patches, ttx 14:29:44 Gracias, dhellmann 14:29:54 #link https://media.giphy.com/media/90UFDHjEA9RwQ/giphy.gif 14:30:05 haha 14:30:07 #topic SIG governance 14:30:20 ricolin ? 14:30:38 ricolin and I are in the process of defining what SIG governance looks like. 137 in the etherpad for action items 14:31:08 Clarify that it's okay to disband/part of life cycle + evaluating SIGs over time (ricolin) 14:31:08 Liaisons for SIGs from the TC (ricolin, asettle) 14:31:08 Reach out to OSF/UC to increase content/question in user survey (ricolin, asettle) 14:31:21 The upgrade sig is gone, and doc SIG might be on the way 14:31:29 asettle, give me a sec 14:31:38 ricolin, np 14:32:15 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/explain-team-formate-differentiate 14:32:42 So I'm wondering if this looks like right format for that action 14:32:51 I still need to review more (I'm yellow) 14:33:01 #action asettle to review ricolin's etherpad for SIG items 14:33:45 I try to separate those as Long/short term Mission oriented or Require deliverable service 14:33:56 to explain goals, popup, SIG and project 14:34:04 i'm interested in having a discussion after the meeting on where things like the technical election officials and vulnerability management team fall into the growing taxonomy of group structures we have 14:34:17 If that sounds like right, I can push it up for review 14:34:35 (doesn't have to be immediately after the meeting, just when folks who are also interested in this topic have time) 14:34:42 ricolin, maybe tc-members should review the etherpad first 14:35:03 also I wanted to list all of out social constructs on a single diagram, like what the Kubernetes community does to explain SIGs, committees and workgroups they have 14:35:11 #action tc-members to review goal, popup, and SIG project etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/explain-team-formate-differentiate 14:35:16 ttx, that's a good suggestion 14:35:16 I found that useful 14:35:22 Could you share a link, ttx ? 14:35:35 ttx +1 14:35:36 was on slides... let me see 14:35:43 Thank you ttx 14:36:06 ttx I think that's what's short from my etherpad docs 14:36:21 Anything further ricolin ? Sorry to cut short, but we need to move fast. Lots to cover :) 14:36:42 #link https://media.giphy.com/media/EhIrNwoxFXt84/giphy.gif 14:36:47 will link if I find it 14:36:49 asettle, fine for now 14:36:52 Thank you both :) 14:36:55 #topic Python 3 check in 14:37:10 mugsie, this was on your plate again. Also, discussion about checking in with Swift and seeing where they were at 14:37:50 See lines 146 of the etherpad for action items 14:37:50 yes - the -train jobs seem to have been proposed across the projects 14:38:22 I need to sync with dhellmann or release-team to find the code for the proposal bot :) 14:38:30 * ttx screencaps 14:38:32 btw this action is captured in the Train goal 14:38:37 #link https://review.opendev.org/657908 14:39:00 which we have a champion for and is ready to approve 14:39:05 Fabulous 14:39:09 Swift? 14:39:32 we had it marked as the liason 14:39:34 #action mugsie to sync with dhellmann or release-team to find the code for the proposal bot 14:39:37 mugsie, we sure did 14:39:41 #link https://imgur.com/a/ke3t6eC 14:39:44 tc-members - who was the swift liaison? 14:39:54 let me grab that 14:40:00 hmm, I might be one of them :) 14:40:01 ttx, excellent 14:40:03 mnaser, okay thank you 14:40:13 #action mnaser to sync up with swift team on python3 migration update 14:40:16 (the list was not updated due to discussed earlier, but cdent and zaneb) 14:40:23 * asettle nods okay 14:40:33 zaneb, sync up with mnaser? 14:40:39 ttx thx 14:40:43 can do 14:40:50 thanks zaneb. 14:40:55 We are over halfway team! 14:40:57 #link https://media.giphy.com/media/ujvW8qiDfbCJRnIHPq/giphy.gif 14:41:07 #topic Leaderless projects 14:41:13 Summary: it's a concern 14:41:27 Action items were on line 185 of the etherpad. Suggestions include reworking the documentation around the current role of the PTL and providing tips on how to "be a better PTL" and offering shadowing and mentoring for potential candidates. This all needs to be socialised further. 14:41:46 we've had one recently go missing after being assigned outside normal electoral process, right? 14:41:58 We had a number of interested parties on this item. Including jungleboyj , timburke_ , me apparently, ttx and ricolin 14:42:03 fungi, we have indeed 14:42:30 fungi: was this Zaqar? 14:42:43 I was interested in helping better document PTL expectations 14:42:52 Ben Nemec also shared his PTL tips and tricks 14:42:53 I think this also lines up with kind of preventing burnout in the community. PTL is very much a role that essentially puts people on a train to burnout 14:42:57 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DEN-ptl-tips-and-tricks 14:42:57 since the current content in the projectteam guide is a bit overwhelming 14:43:03 zaneb: yes, not sure the action items we established for this would necessarily have solved that case 14:43:05 ttx, that it is 14:43:07 with an eye toward encouraging delegation 14:43:10 is this to improve the existing doc or new doc/process ?- https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/ptl.html 14:43:17 #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/ptl.html 14:43:22 I'd improve existing content 14:43:26 Improve 14:43:28 ttx we definitely need to update the guideline, so +1 14:43:31 ok 14:43:40 We want to encourage people to take on the role, but we need to make sure it isn't too much for people 14:43:59 ttx, ricolin - let's sync up sometime and review the PTL section. Cool? 14:44:06 Anyone else want to volunteer to help? 14:44:13 asettle, yes 14:44:35 i like to idea to circulate this doc to elected PTL(new or old) 14:44:50 fungi: fwiw we found reviewers to approve the patch to get their gate working again 14:44:57 gmann, I believe this has been something we've been trying to do. Definitely was brought up that people didn't know it existed. 14:44:59 #action asettle ttx ricolin to sync up and review the PTL section of the project teams guide to improve the PTL experience 14:45:04 zaneb: thanks, that's a relief 14:45:07 gmann, we also talked about offering better peer mentorship 14:45:21 +1 14:45:27 Groovy dudes 14:45:29 #link https://media.giphy.com/media/cdNSp4L5vCU7aQrYnV/giphy.gif 14:45:40 Anything else on this topic? 14:46:31 nothing 14:46:37 Coolio hoolio 14:46:38 SO CLOSE 14:46:42 #topic Kickstarting innovation in Openstack 14:46:52 zaneb, proposed a zany (har har har) suggestion regarding a new multi-tenant cloud with ironic/neutron/optionally cinder/keytstone/octavia (vision will be completed with k8s on top of OpenStack). Suggestion was for new whitepaper written by zaneb and mnaser. 14:47:00 How's that going along, fellas? 14:47:05 I am still working on this 14:47:16 Any updates to share with your fans? 14:47:26 mostly talking to networking experts to make sure that we propose something that isn't actually insane 14:47:27 #link http://replygif.net/i/1021.gif (for the pun) 14:47:34 i have not sync'd up with zaneb on that but i've done some (personal) work on trying something like that 14:47:38 zaneb: that phrase doesn't work 14:47:38 tl;dr networking is hard 14:47:47 mugsie, excuse you I clearly thought long and hard about that one 14:47:55 zaneb: yes, yes it is 14:48:00 zaneb, mate preach 14:48:01 lol, zaneb let me know if I can answer anything with Octavia 14:48:15 johnsom, dude do you have an octavia ping setup? 14:48:16 johnsom: I thought you wanted to answer everything with it? :p 14:48:29 So hilariously eerie when people just APPEAR 14:48:33 it's been on the back burner, but I need to sink some proper time into it again 14:48:34 asettle: yes, he does 14:49:02 #link https://media.giphy.com/media/PIYYhi1eoZHSE/giphy.gif 14:49:03 yahuh 14:49:04 Okay 14:49:05 Many folks lurk watching over the TC. lol 14:49:06 thanks zaneb. That will be a very interesting read :D 14:49:08 zaneb, anythi ngelse? 14:49:11 I imagine johnsom has his IRC client set up to ping him whenever anyone says "networking is hard" 14:49:14 johnsom, I hope they're all enjoying my gifs 14:49:19 johnsom: come for the TC, stay for the GIFs 14:49:34 zaneb: I hope it's not "octavia" as his ping 14:49:37 this seems a lot like a "constellation" (even though i know we basically stopped trying to artificially generate some) 14:49:38 That's cause my gif game strong! 14:49:41 * asettle flexes 14:49:48 fungi: a little bit, yeah 14:49:49 lol 14:49:52 ttx Totally accurate 14:49:58 Okay but seirously zaneb we goo? 14:49:58 so many GIFs... I feel younger already 14:50:00 good* 14:50:02 the gif better be there ever since! 14:50:19 so many gifs it's like being back on compuserv 14:50:21 asettle: you now have "peer pressure" 14:50:33 evrardjp, mate I can HANDLE IT 14:50:34 roll for initiative! 14:50:40 yes, let's move on because there's not much to report yet because I am lazy 14:50:41 Okay let's rock 'n' roll homies 14:50:50 #topic Deleting all the things! 14:50:55 #link https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/14634311.jpg 14:50:58 ^^ obviously have to add 14:51:09 mugsie, or as I like to call you in my head, muggles - update us! 14:51:09 that guy looks a bit like mugsie indeed 14:51:15 See line 234 for action items 14:51:16 better with the fire meme 14:51:37 In summary: Should we be deleting things? Yes we should! (with caveats) 14:51:42 I tried writing this up, but couldn't get something I liked, and it fell of the burner 14:51:50 off* 14:51:56 mugsie: as long as you did not delete it... 14:51:59 I have noticed that a lot of the AIs here are mugsie - perhaps we could be sharing the load here? 14:52:05 ttx: haha. 14:52:07