14:00:18 #startmeeting tc 14:00:19 Meeting started Thu Feb 6 14:00:18 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ricolin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:20 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00:23 The meeting name has been set to 'tc' 14:00:28 #topic rollcall 14:00:29 o/ 14:00:31 o/ 14:00:32 o/ 14:00:34 o/ 14:00:37 o/ 14:00:57 o/ 14:01:13 tc-members meeting time:) 14:01:36 bonjour 14:01:52 thanks ricolin for hosting this time! 14:02:05 mnaser, bonsoir:) 14:02:21 so much french mastery 14:02:29 looks like we have a quorum:) 14:02:41 #link https://giphy.com/gifs/marcelo-4lkkKZVCeyHLy 14:02:48 #topic Report on large scale sig 14:03:00 ttx how's everything there:) 14:03:37 Things are good. Slow progress. We can talk more about the oslo.metric spec when we cover that topic 14:03:42 evrardjp, I'm not going to Paris without learning some:) 14:03:58 Not sure there is value in keeping it forever on the meeting agenda 14:04:10 I post updates on the ML for those interested 14:04:11 next opendev event in Vancouver contains track `Large-scale Usage of Open Source Infrastructure Software (scale pain points, multi-location, CI/CD)`, is there any plan from large scale sig? 14:04:45 o/ 14:04:45 Yes, there should be a in-person large scale SIG happening 14:04:54 agree with you, that SIG is all on track 14:05:17 \o 14:05:26 * jroll neglected to put this one on his calendar, apologies 14:05:28 we are trying to set reasonable expectations and steady albeit slow progress achieving those 14:05:56 next topic! 14:05:58 ttx I wonder how can we help to attract more new joiner to the SIG 14:06:14 ricolin: I'm pitching it to the user companies I talk to 14:06:27 * ricolin think PTG is not the best place IMO 14:07:32 ttx great idea to approach user companies, maybe we should added it to SIG guideline:) 14:07:45 Anyway that's something else, move on:) 14:07:47 #topic Report on tc/uc merge 14:08:04 ttx, how's that going:) 14:08:08 I started to look into the corresponding bylaws changes 14:08:14 It's not very fun 14:08:27 So I'm all in the "is this really worth it" doubt phase 14:08:36 Shall have something to present for next meeting 14:08:45 #link https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-pretty-little-liars-pll-BnpZF3hWIyLgQ 14:09:16 other option is to distribute the UC tasks among SIG, TC and dismiss UC. if that avoid by-law things easy 14:09:19 Basically it's a costly move, fora psyops effects 14:09:26 the gif game is strong 14:09:30 #action ttx report on tc/uc merge next meeting 14:09:32 agreed with ttx 14:09:54 gmann: yes. The costly change is really to rename the TC 14:10:33 https://media.giphy.com/media/26FL35TKSXu8KwiR2/giphy.gif 14:10:37 But it's the alternative is basically to disband the UC and absorb its tasks into SIGs -- probably not a decision for us (TC) to make 14:10:49 err.. But the... 14:10:49 +1 14:10:50 njohnston: :) 14:11:03 So yeah, more on taht later 14:11:11 thanks for the report! 14:11:24 ttx i think it will be TC as SIG will be under TC only if noo UC. yeah we can discuss later 14:11:35 ttx is that means these need to present to board to grep approval eventually? 14:12:00 * ricolin think rename TC is not a bad idea 14:12:02 I think if the best solution is to disband the UC, it has to come from the UC itself. 14:12:18 agreed 14:12:24 +1 14:12:26 Not a bad idea. Too bad it is hard. 14:12:32 Renaming the TC is very costly from a bylaws perspective, for a mostly psychological effect 14:12:33 spotz, just like you to be aware of this discussion:) 14:12:34 jungleboyj: yup! 14:12:56 But an important psychological effect ("Ops are welcome here") 14:13:21 ttx: ++ 14:13:28 So yeah, one morning I'm motivated and the next day I'm like "wow, is it really worth it" 14:13:37 haha 14:13:48 well, it's out of our hands right now. 14:14:02 ok next topic 14:14:08 I think it's noble, and thanks ttx for adressing this from your perspective 14:14:12 we need to go faster to cover everything 14:14:13 we can certainly help to push that 14:14:26 ttx: +1 14:14:31 #topic report on the post for the analysis of the survey 14:14:39 jungleboyj, hey!:) 14:15:08 Hey. 14:15:31 jungleboyj already propose a patch for it, but we need tc-members to review it. 14:15:32 So, I apologize for lack of progress here. My other job has become nuts. 14:15:37 #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/698582/ 14:16:04 the question I have, outside the folks needing review, is that there is a blog post or not to write... If there is, it will be hard to track just in the review 14:16:07 ricolin: I had an additional comment to address. 14:16:15 so it would be good to keep it on the agenda for next time 14:16:50 * asettle stumbles in the front door 14:16:51 Yellow 14:16:54 FYI, I don't recommend trying to release a product with a Chinese team during a plague. 14:16:56 sending the doc link on ML can be enough but yeah writting blog post is more audience 14:17:08 jungleboyj: sounds like fun 14:17:20 Something like that. 14:17:27 jungleboyj: Not sure plague is the right term. 14:17:40 "virus" 14:17:45 but I am not english native :p 14:17:46 I bet that would apply to any pandemic 14:17:55 ttx: ++ 14:17:57 it's not a pandemic afaik 14:18:02 #action jungleboyj report on user survey update next meeting 14:18:10 evrardjp: the media treated it as one for sure 14:18:14 but hey, I will stop being pedantic :) 14:18:23 ttx: haha yeah 14:18:24 ricolin: Yes, I will. I will try to get a new patch up in the next couple of days. 14:18:32 jungleboyj, anything more on this topic in this meeting? 14:18:37 ttx: it's serious business though. 14:18:39 jungleboyj, thanks 14:18:43 ricolin: No. Thanks guys! 14:18:47 move on:) 14:18:50 #topic Report on the convo Telemetry 14:19:08 For what I know, the ML discussion stopped at Dec. and there's no meeting for Telemetry since then. 14:19:18 There are few works been pushed, like Improve Quota API. No much reviewer and patch activity. I feel like they need help to push through the entire finding solution for Gnocchi thing. 14:20:05 A moderator will be nice 14:20:47 Let's all I have for now, I will keep an eye on it 14:21:00 s/Let/That/ 14:21:07 to be fair I'm not sure what we (the TC) can do. Someone has to care enough to put effort in this, effort which the TC can encourage/bless/support, but I'm not sure that benefits from being driven at TC-level 14:22:18 I feel like a sustainable-telemetry pop up team would be more efficient, if someone wanted badly-enough to fix the situation 14:22:24 ttx, agree with you totally, I think to encourage to make the final call will be something TC can help 14:22:43 we don't need to be part of that decision 14:23:02 pop up team +1 14:23:04 o/ 14:23:15 zaneb, o/ 14:24:08 ricolin: catching up 14:24:13 spotz, thx 14:24:38 ttx, I will rich out to ptl to see if they're in any status need our help 14:24:47 move on 14:25:00 #topic Report on multi-arch SIG 14:25:19 We have WIP for docs, and CI jobs, doc init structure will sended out this week. Not yet ask others if multi-arch SIG will join Vancouver opendev even. 14:26:05 Since just get back from CNY, haven't got any chance to update with mnaser and Huawei guy for ARM resource donation yet, hope that's on going:) 14:26:29 in my case, the hardware is already there and exists in the cloud thats part of openstack-infra 14:26:45 just need to upload images with correct properties 14:26:50 there's something need to fix in current ARM CI environment, and ianw is working on it 14:27:50 also it turns out that new arm environment isn't reachable from our prior arm environment in mainland china, so we had to relocate the image builder 14:28:03 mnaser, that's great news, will sync with you out side of meeting:) 14:28:03 should we continue reporting here? I have the impression it's in good hands now, and that people interested can be doing so by reaching the SIG... Correct? 14:28:04 something something firewalls something 14:28:19 fungi, that's the issue ianw is working on I assume 14:28:33 ricolin: actually he fixed that one 14:28:42 evrardjp, we can leave it out of TC meeting for sure:) 14:28:44 now it's image properties, as mnaser indicated 14:29:01 oh sorry 14:29:03 fungi, thanks for the update info. 14:29:11 im talking about arm hardware inside vexxhost 14:29:38 Anything else need to discuss here? 14:29:46 nope 14:29:46 well, there's an issue with setting the right image properties in the new arm cloud too, it's looking like (last i heard anyway) 14:30:07 but i haven't caught up on it yet since yesterday 14:30:32 fungi, is there any story I can trace this issue? 14:31:00 i believe there is but i don't know it off the top of my head 14:31:09 check in #openstack-infra after the meeting 14:31:17 fungi, got it 14:31:23 okay let's move on 14:31:27 #topic report on infra liaison and static hosting 14:31:38 mnaser, any update on this? 14:31:48 i think the dns was updated a few days ago 14:32:07 given i was a bit out of things because of some $personal_stuff, ianw and andreas did a lot of the work 14:32:18 afaik, infra updated dns not long ago for those domains 14:32:40 yep 14:32:45 super 14:32:45 I think we are good indeed, IIRC a comment from fungi during fosdem 14:32:47 2020-01-29 20:30:35 UTC governance.openstack.org and security.openstack.org switched CNAMEs to new static.opendev.org server 14:32:50 i think we're just down to rehoming the tarballs site now 14:33:06 I am removing this from the agenda of the meeting, as everything seems to be in good hands 14:33:08 yeah, so that's mostly wrapped up, tarballs seems to be a different bigger beast that infra is dealing with 14:33:10 :D 14:33:39 from the agenda of next meeting* 14:33:47 move on:) 14:33:51 #topic report on stable branch policy work 14:33:59 mnaser, ^^^;) 14:34:16 yeah, sorry, not pushed up :( 14:34:34 ok 14:34:37 i'll try to get to it, but nothing has developed on that 14:34:39 let's keep it for next time then 14:34:47 mnaser, I can make a action for this in next meeting:) 14:34:56 hopefully it'll be gone by then 14:35:01 #action mnaser to report on stable branch policy work 14:35:10 #topic report on the oslo metrics project 14:35:32 There is a spec proposed 14:35:57 ttx can you post the link:) 14:36:02 #link https://review.opendev.org/#/c/704733/ 14:36:12 Please have a look if you care about the topic :) 14:36:31 will there need to be a follow up after that? Or will it magically get done? 14:36:34 :D 14:36:48 it's early draft stage and I bet masahito-san would love comments 14:36:50 (to know if I can remove this from the topics, I love magic) 14:37:04 #action tc-members review https://review.opendev.org/#/c/704733/ 14:37:10 no need to keep it in-TC 14:37:20 people interested should join largescale SIG really 14:37:22 that's true 14:37:41 a ML update will be nice:) 14:38:27 let's see how the review goes 14:38:48 move on 14:38:50 #topic report on the community goals for U and V, py2 drop 14:38:54 gmann, :) 14:38:56 U cycle community goals: We have 2 goals ready as updated over ML. Both goals are in progress. You can check the status updates on ML 14:39:03 py2 drop: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012310.html 14:39:16 Thanks for the updates on those 14:39:19 awesome! 14:39:21 Contribution goal: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012364.html 14:39:25 gmann, nice job! 14:39:46 V cycle goal: I have started the ML to collect the ideas: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012396.html 14:40:07 there is etherpad to collect the ideas and then we will start the discussion on individual idea 14:40:11 Thanks for your hard work on these. The py27 in particular has had some last minute twists. 14:40:12 Thanks for getting the next rounds started already gmann :) 14:40:17 We have our first goal propose for V already 14:40:19 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-v-series-goals 14:40:24 sorry I didn't get the chance to comment on the ML yet gmann. But thanks for doing so 14:40:24 the zuul migrate one 14:40:34 looking for one more TC member for driving it 14:40:40 Yay! 14:40:51 wow YVR again 14:40:52 evrardjp: ++ 14:40:53 please write your name on etherpad if interested 14:40:59 I can help drive it 14:41:01 time is going by :> 14:41:27 Py drop Drama: This is causing lot of issues/complexity than expected 14:41:36 mnaser: next summit is BER again. it's a replay of 2018 14:41:56 master gate is all ok and if any project still left with py2 jobs which will fail due to oslo and other lib dropping py2 can drop py2 jobs 14:41:57 njohnston, you don't mind if I put an action on this? 14:41:57 Thankfully at a Venure that is closer to things. 14:42:10 *Venue 14:42:21 but stable branch testing till stable/rocky is all bad. I have been fixing those since last weeks or more 14:42:38 current issue fix is in progress: #link https://review.opendev.org/#/q/topic:fix-stable-gate+(status:open+OR+status:merged) 14:42:40 ricolin: sure 14:42:55 #action njohnston help with gmann to drive v series goals 14:43:00 njohnston, thx:) 14:43:01 i have to fix devstack-gate for legacy ocata job which unblock the pike grenade job and so on. 14:43:15 let's see if i can bring up the stable gate green again 14:43:21 njohnston thanks 14:43:31 that's all from my side. question ? 14:43:47 no questions 14:44:07 none from me, but this is how I see you now https://giphy.com/gifs/superman-man-of-steel-FiBzv5FRE85PO 14:44:09 except: is there a tc member that can help you? It seems a lot of work for just one person 14:44:25 so true 14:44:31 :-) 14:45:23 yeah, fixing py is more dynamic issues occur as lib drop py2. but as next week is deadline, we should have all potential failure and then fix them 14:45:44 got to push the meeting schedule, let's keep the finding volunteer in office hour:) 14:45:55 one more thing: next week which is m-2 is target to finish the py drop from everything except requirement repo 14:46:15 ricolin: oh yeah I meant that as an asynchronous thing. We can continue ... 14:46:24 and then keep fixing the issue and make everything stable before m-3 or early 14:47:07 +1, we can move next. 14:47:20 gmann, indeed important message to record in meeting, I think we need to figure out how can we help you with it 14:47:22 gmann: if you have a sub task that you want to carve off the rest I can try to help lighten the load 14:47:39 njohnston, :) 14:47:42 #topic report on release naming 14:47:44 njohnston great, i will post you for that. thanks 14:48:02 Anyone can update the W progress? 14:48:23 naming still open until tomorrow 14:48:34 lots of great names 14:48:36 there's a good list 14:48:47 zaneb, it is 14:48:56 I haven't received a member that asked me to vote for x or y yet. 14:48:57 That is good to hear. 14:49:12 I mean W1 or W2 14:49:14 most people missed that memo (that they would not vote) 14:49:16 evrardjp: ++ 14:49:33 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming/W_Proposals 14:49:38 definitely need to discuss this in our next office hour or meeting 14:49:42 ttx: well it was sent on the ML, so... 14:50:00 #action mugsie help to report on W release naming 14:50:03 let's just continue our things, haters are gonna hate anyway 14:50:08 move on 14:50:13 #topic report on the ideas repo 14:50:23 evrardjp, how's crazy idea goes:) 14:50:31 * gmann wondering how many request to ask for name support will be :) 14:50:38 I hadn't seen this list. Looks good. 14:50:57 in progress. will report on the ml when ready 14:51:05 currently at static hosting changes 14:51:28 #action evrardjp report on ideas repo on ML 14:52:02 #topic report on charter change 14:52:09 evrardjp, ^^^ 14:52:45 I think we can remove this from the action items 14:52:59 Everything is ready for the next elections afaik. 14:53:09 removing it now! 14:53:14 okay, that's good news:) 14:53:16 move on 14:53:21 #topic Report on whether SIG guidelines worked 14:53:26 I actually got not much to update for this, I use it to settup Multi-Arch SIG and it works for me. Haven't got feedback from other SIGs but mostly is because this is more needed for new SIGs. 14:53:59 IMO no need to keep this in TC meeting agenda anymore 14:54:15 ok 14:54:25 anyway, moving forward:) 14:54:27 #topic volunteers to represent OpenStack at the OpenDev advisory board 14:54:36 evrardjp, 14:54:56 yeah, so we received a call on the ML from clarkb 14:55:18 we basically need one volunteer to be the openstack liaison on the advisory board for the opendev collaboratory 14:55:34 I am fine with being that liaison for the time of my chairing 14:55:34 does it have to be a TC member or just somebody we nominate? 14:55:52 better from one of member not getting re-election this time 14:55:53 openstack's technical governing body can pick anyone they please 14:55:58 can be anyone really 14:56:09 * zaneb nominates fungi 14:56:14 I'd pick Andreas personally :) 14:56:47 Infrastructure providers are also on the advisory board too, so we don't need to nominate mnaser :p 14:56:48 zaneb: ideally not a sysadmin for the collaboratory, but i don't think we discussed whether that would cause a problem 14:56:48 we should probably put out a wider call for volunteers 14:57:00 yes ML thread is the right way 14:57:08 ya just yell at me 14:57:12 so it raises a very good point anyway 14:57:13 :> 14:57:35 timecheck: 3 min left 14:57:49 gmann, thx 14:58:13 I assume we can keep this discussion in office hour to find our best candidate 14:58:16 move on 14:58:19 #topic Report on the OSF board initiatives 14:58:24 just ML will be good enough :) 14:59:05 yeah so... it's been a while we didn't report on what's going on in the board. Well basically there are initiatives started to get more contributors, with the help of mentoring and universities, IIRC. 14:59:31 If a board member or previous board member could say a few words, that would be awesome. 15:00:14 Also the COA is back on again 15:00:15 I had prepared this better, but my notes are in a box in my new home, sorry. 15:00:15 There are some universities in Sweden that would like to include some real world hands on open source development. 15:00:17 +1. i think getting some result on that would be nice or we find some other way 15:00:40 We need to identify some good things they could work on over a few weeks time during the semester. 15:00:53 smcginnis: ++ 15:01:06 ildikov and diablo_rojo have sent a few things out to the ML, but not sure if that's been widely seen/noticed. 15:01:15 smcginnis: ok should we start ML thread, or take from our pool of community goals? 15:01:25 smcginnisthat is for few weeks duration or some long term maintainer even with less bandwidth 15:01:26 Seems like we need a better way to build up a pipeline of things, but I don't have any good ideas. 15:01:31 I see 15:01:37 smcginnis: I had pointed rosmaita at it but didn't see further action. 15:01:56 I believe the Octavia team may be working with that group of Swedish students (or possiblky another pool of Swedes). I heard about that from johnsom. 15:02:02 gmann: The idea would be that it's just for a few weeks, but with the hope that it would get at least a few of them interested in continuing after the class is over. 15:02:17 ok. 15:02:17 njohnston: Oh, great! 15:02:23 I guess in the meantime, the investment opportunities and the community goals are the first targets... 15:02:31 North Dakota State University 15:02:45 njohnston, those or NDSU students 15:02:47 Getting their help on community goal completion could be a good way to have a discrete item of work for them to focus on. 15:03:05 evrardjp true but that need longer time commitment from contributors 15:03:17 johnsom: Ah, well North Dakota is basically half of Swedish descent anyway :-) 15:03:20 like zuul v3 migrate?:) 15:03:31 I'm working with johnsom mentoring those NDSU students (though johnsom is doing most of the work) 15:03:38 anyways, we can discuss on list to work on in office hour 15:03:39 gmann: everything is :) I just hope that having something that matter a lot gives an incentive to come back :D 15:03:43 evrardjp: that reminds me, we need to roll over the 2019 investment ops to 2020 15:03:49 zaneb: correct 15:03:54 are there any we need to prune? 15:04:10 technically they are all pruned, until someone propose it back to 2020 15:04:15 again* 15:04:20 are there any we need to not roll over? 15:04:23 evrardjp, I think we need smaller pieces of work than the investment opportunities. 15:04:36 zaneb: the way it is built was to ensure pruning. 15:04:44 we can propose one by one and see which one we can drop 15:04:46 Yeah, we are having them add actual features to Octavia and following through with tests, CLI, SDK, and dashboard updates. It's not just "grunt" work, lol 15:04:55 So my understanding is that the community has no business opportunities for 2020 as of today. 15:05:07 yes 15:05:23 I think the Designate opportunity at a minimum should roll over 15:05:26 we should move to our last topic as we already running out of time, can we move this to office hour and ML too 15:05:31 need action item for that 15:05:34 ricolin^^ 15:05:48 gmann, got it 15:05:56 move on first 15:06:00 #topic Dropping side projects: using golden signals 15:06:06 ohai 15:06:07 ttx 15:06:09 that is TC assignment at start of every year 15:06:20 So we can probably discuss this in open discussion and close the meeting first 15:06:25 gmann: agreed. I will tackle this. 15:06:36 thanks 15:06:56 can anyone help me to comes out with a nice action itemfor previous one?:) 15:07:00 My point is that it's difficult to close a project, because every time we find something unmaintained that almost nobody uses, someone volunteers to keep it up 15:07:01 because I don't believe we have considerably improved the community since 2019 :p 15:07:06 losing words here:) 15:07:33 That volunteer should be encouraged to step up in more ... positive areas 15:07:54 so how do we look at good candidates for pruning 15:08:02 Contribution stats are not so great 15:08:16 since a project can be slow and totally maintained and useful and operational 15:08:24 I think we need to look at a combination of factors 15:08:33 they are a good signal of maintainance though 15:08:51 gates break regularily, so that + no contribution trigger a view of health 15:08:54 Starting with a golden signal -- no PTL nomination, no goal completion with no communication to the champion etc 15:09:05 missed releases 15:09:17 then if that "abandoned" project also has no user and no dependency... 15:09:36 #action roll over the 2019 investment ops to 2020 15:09:37 reduction of the amount of core reviewers is also a _warning_ sign (not a big red sign) 15:09:46 It becomes a very good candidate for being dropped from the release and the projectteams 15:10:00 ttx: agreed 15:10:02 we can start tag for each project like SIG and guidlines to move state like mentioned above 15:10:02 I'm gonna end the meeting so we can keep this discussion going 15:10:15 ricolin: yeah sorry we mixed the topics at the end 15:10:20 We have a good list from gmann in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2020-February/012310.html 15:10:23 #endmeeting