18:00:53 <JayF> #startmeeting tc
18:00:53 <opendevmeet> Meeting started Tue Apr 16 18:00:53 2024 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is JayF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:53 <opendevmeet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:00:53 <opendevmeet> The meeting name has been set to 'tc'
18:01:04 <JayF> #topic Roll Call
18:01:05 <gouthamr> hello o/
18:01:06 <JayF> Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct.
18:01:07 <gmann> o/
18:01:10 <JayF> Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee.
18:01:11 <JayF> o/
18:01:12 <dansmith> I'm here but majorly distracted with a pressing issue, FWIW
18:01:32 <JayF> I'm hoping, for my own reasons, it's a short quick meeting too :)
18:01:42 <JayF> I'll note we have one noted absence: slaweq is out.
18:02:03 <JayF> I'm going to give a couple more minutes for more tc-members to arrive
18:02:14 <frickler> \o
18:02:33 <spotz[m]> o/
18:02:59 <JayF> Well, this is 6 of us, going to get started.
18:03:06 <JayF> #topic Follow up on tracked action items
18:03:28 <JayF> There were two items, both are PTG/last meeting related and gmann took care of them. Thank you for that, and for running the last meeting while I was out on PTO.
18:03:34 <JayF> #topic Gate Health Check
18:03:43 <JayF> do we have any specific observations on the gate this week?
18:03:56 <gmann> nothing from me.
18:04:01 <JayF> I suspect most of us are still recovering from PTG too much to have real insights here.
18:04:11 <gouthamr> +1
18:04:16 <JayF> #topic TC vPTG 2024.2
18:04:27 <JayF> We had one, thank you everyone for participating. I will send a summary to the list later this week.
18:04:41 <JayF> Please review the etherpad for any action items you may have signed up for and follow up on them.
18:04:48 <JayF> #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/apr2024-ptg-os-tc
18:04:56 <JayF> Any further comments on TC PTG?
18:05:16 <frickler> some issues sadly were cut off, like the leaderless projects
18:05:19 <spotz[m]> I thought it went really well
18:05:29 <frickler> some reviews there still need attention
18:05:48 <JayF> Yes, in general there are quite a few governance changes up that need review
18:07:00 <JayF> Moving on.
18:07:04 <JayF> #topic TC Chair Election
18:07:11 <JayF> The incoming TC has to select a Chair and Vice-Chair
18:07:15 <spotz[m]> My charter review still needs eyes, once that's approved we'll need to update the election tooling
18:07:19 <JayF> #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#tc-chair
18:07:26 <JayF> spotz[m]: I put a review on that earlier, fwiw
18:07:38 <JayF> I'll note we have one nominee, currently, for TC Char: gouthamr
18:08:01 <spotz[m]> Yeah Goutham!
18:08:15 <JayF> Are there any other TC members planning on volunteering/nominating themselves for TC chair?
18:08:28 <JayF> If so, I'm happy to conduct an election with anonymous balloting via CIVS as we have in the past.
18:08:37 * gouthamr thinks JayF didn't make a typo there
18:08:42 <JayF> Otherwise; I will propose a change after this meeting putting gouthamr in charge of us all
18:08:47 <frickler> I'd think the official candidacy period is long over
18:09:02 <JayF> I do too, that's why this is serving as a last call
18:09:08 <frickler> +1
18:09:11 <gmann> +1
18:09:25 <spotz[m]> +1
18:09:34 <JayF> Please consider volunteering to gouthamr to be vice-chair, as he will need backup and help -- in an ideal case; the vice-chair would also be willing to be the next chair.
18:09:34 <gmann> thanks gouthamr
18:09:44 <JayF> But for now, going to move on
18:09:49 <JayF> #topic Open Discussion / Reviews
18:09:58 <JayF> as mentioned by a couple others, we need to ensure we look at governance reviews:
18:10:08 <JayF> #link https://review.opendev.org/q/status:open+repo:openstack/governance
18:10:30 <opendevreview> Merged openstack/governance master: Add gouthamr's nomination to TC Chair for 2024.2  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/915754
18:10:56 <JayF> Nice and timely :)
18:11:00 <frickler> I'd like to draw particular attention to the skyline PTL appointment, where there are two applications
18:11:08 <clarkb> Sorry missed the PTG topic but had a couple of thoughts after last week. The first is that the TC ptg schedule seems to be standing in for what we used to call the forum. A lot of topics have to do with bigger issues and design. Additionally many were cut short for time. Maybe we should try to treat those topics more specially and give them more time and perhaps specific
18:11:09 <JayF> Yeah, was about to ask if you wanted to talk about that.
18:11:10 <clarkb> schedule items
18:11:21 <clarkb> or perhaps we should try and do that sort of discussion out of band of the PTG
18:11:27 <JayF> clarkb: Honestly, I was ... yes, that, the latter
18:11:28 <frickler> I'd consider withdrawing mine but would like to hear other's opinions first
18:11:30 <gouthamr> :D ++ thank you for the vote of confidence and encouragement
18:12:03 <JayF> frickler: honestly, we have an engaged person who gave a detailed response with info we've been trying to dig out for a while about why it's so hard for projects to do elections
18:12:25 <JayF> frickler: Plus existing PTL was responsive when I asked, as chair, about pathways to getting out of emerging projects and getting into active projects
18:12:54 <JayF> I think this is an opportunity to build a rapport with the kind of leader who might be the general kind of contributior in openstack we've had trouble reaching in the past
18:13:36 <JayF> #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/914248
18:13:41 <JayF> #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/915108
18:14:00 <JayF> The ideal case, IMO, would be Wu and frickler working closely together
18:14:52 <gouthamr> "I can commit being reachable on IRC in the skyline and TC channels 2 days per week for the whole cycle, Skyline has others 3 core developers, I can commit they alive in IRC when I was absent." - being on IRC is turning out to be challenging to some of our PTLs?
18:15:29 <frickler> gouthamr: yes, sadly that seems to be the case for multiple PTLs already, see telemetry and others
18:15:39 <JayF> Yes, and I'm not surprised at that. It's one of the friction points I ifnd when introducing new folks to the community. It's part of why for people working with me directly, I have an irccloud account I add them to
18:15:59 <JayF> this is why I see this as an opportunity -- we can try to root cause some of these issues with an engaged ptl
18:16:23 <JayF> (FSVO engaged; the RCA in the gerrit thread about how the election was missed is actually very interesting to me)
18:17:12 <frickler> what's FSVO?
18:17:26 <fungi> it's possible "being reachable on irc" is less challenging if it means "my matrix account joins the channel through a bridge"
18:17:27 <JayF> for some value of
18:17:37 <frickler> ah, thx
18:17:50 <spotz[m]> We do have the bridge up from OFTC to Matrix, but I know Matrix has become the preferred for a lot of projects
18:18:11 <frickler> fungi: except for when the matrix bridge drops people as being shown present in channels
18:18:26 <gmann> well, it is not just IRC but keep up to the community elections, ML and more than moving project from emerging to Active.
18:18:31 <JayF> frickler: +++++ it makes it extremely difficult for IRC-side users to interact with some matrix users
18:18:50 <fungi> that's a good point. i've resorted to pinging nicks that aren't "in the channel" which causes them to suddenly join as if from nowhere and respond
18:18:56 <frickler> likely e.g. gtema is around, but not shown present
18:19:10 <frickler> fungi: ++
18:20:09 <JayF> gmann: but yeah, that's why I suggest a collab is the ideal case: we clearly have an engaged person even if they aren't expert at openstack-specific maintenance items, like elections and the like
18:21:40 <JayF> It looks like active discussion is winding down, I'll close out the meeting soon if we're done.
18:22:09 <frickler> one more thing
18:22:32 <frickler> the question of moving docs tooling to TC governance is still open and also lacking feedback so far I think
18:22:51 <frickler> #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/914950
18:23:31 <clarkb> spotz[m]: fwiw opendev does maintain an EMS managed matrix homeserver and zuul and starlingx are using it
18:23:33 <gmann> I replied there, My main question is if oslo team does not want to maintain it and want TC to take care of it?
18:23:39 <spotz[m]> I would think that makes sense with my charter change
18:23:50 <clarkb> I personally prefer IRC (I think the client tooling is miles ahead), but I don't mind matrix. It beats discord and slack
18:23:59 <frickler> together with related review on docs tools https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstackdocstheme/+/915128
18:24:12 <spotz[m]> clarkb: hrmmmmm
18:24:40 <frickler> regarding matrix my main concers is that it all would break down if matrix.org goes away
18:24:51 <JayF> frickler: good call out; I have that open and will look soon
18:24:56 <frickler> not only 95% of the users, but also tooling like channel links
18:25:33 <frickler> plus lack of a text client
18:26:31 <frickler> with IRC we are completely independent of specific servers, we even managed to switch to a completely different network without major issues
18:26:53 <gmann> ++
18:26:56 <JayF> It's too bad IRCv3 is not getting more uptake. It fixes a lot of the issues with traditional IRC and many clients support it no problem.
18:26:57 <clarkb> yup, but that also required us to register new uesr and we don't really have channel links with the same featurefulness
18:27:20 <JayF> Either way, this is good discussion to have -- not sure it's neccessary for it to be in a TC meeting context
18:27:22 <clarkb> I think a lot of the same issues exist with either technology, but we have proven that we can be resilient in the case of an IRC network implosion and that is yet to be tested with matrix
18:27:42 <JayF> I'd like to close the meeting and let this discussion continue outside the meeting? Does that work for folks?
18:28:17 <frickler> fine for me
18:28:21 <JayF> clarkb: too bad irccloud isn't self-hosting, irccloud.opendev.org would fix a bunch of the issues
18:28:27 <spotz[m]> Unless OFTC does what the last one did, which for the life of me can't think of the name:(
18:28:32 <spotz[m]> Fine for me too
18:28:32 <JayF> Thanks all for meeting, lets keep talkign about chat in chat afterwards, which is fun
18:28:35 <JayF> #endmeeting