20:02:23 <dhellmann> #startmeeting tc-summit-planning
20:02:24 <openstack> Meeting started Fri May  1 20:02:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:25 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:02:27 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'tc_summit_planning'
20:02:36 <dhellmann> we have 2 planning tools set up
20:02:38 <dhellmann> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit#gid=827503418
20:02:49 <dhellmann> and I broke down and created an etherpad
20:02:50 <dhellmann> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-cross-project-session-planning
20:03:05 <dhellmann> I can't see the whole google doc at once, so it was hard to get an overall view
20:03:27 <dhellmann> I thought a good goal for today would be to identify any obvious *yes* or *no* candidates on the list
20:03:34 <devananda> dhellmann: yea. thanks. that was making it hard to get an overview
20:03:58 <dhellmann> I took a stab at those in the etherpad, with yes in bold and no using strikeout
20:04:00 <lifeless> o/
20:04:02 <lifeless> its saturday
20:04:05 <lifeless> so I'm not really here
20:04:12 * dhellmann pretends not to notice lifeless
20:04:50 <dhellmann> shall we go down the list one by one?
20:06:37 <devananda> dhellmann: shall we use +1/-1 on the line, and then discuss more if there's not a concensus?
20:06:44 <dhellmann> devananda: sure
20:11:35 * annegentle waves, apologizes for being late
20:13:59 <annegentle> hahaha I'm early
20:15:19 <dhellmann> annegentle: early, late, you're here :-)
20:15:23 <dhellmann> we're using https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-cross-project-session-planning
20:15:57 <dhellmann> annegentle: we're taking a quick temperature, and looking for obvious yes or no candidates in the full list
20:16:09 <annegentle> cool
20:16:48 <dhellmann> annegentle: (I'm assuming you don't have scrollback) bold is "yes" and strikethrough is "no", but so far those are just my proposals and we're all leaving the usual votes
20:20:15 <dhellmann> markmcclain, devananda, sdague, flaper87, annegentle, lifeless : keep in mind, we're evaluating the proposals, not trying to design solutions to the questions posed by them :-)
20:20:21 <annegentle> heh
20:20:44 * dhellmann notes the discussion of getting notifications to end users as an example of going too deep
20:21:23 <lifeless> dhellmann: mmmm, we're evaluating their relative merit for a very constrained resource
20:21:58 <lifeless> dhellmann: knowing if its contentious (face time might help) or trivial (face time a waste) is entirely relevant IMO
20:22:53 <dhellmann> lifeless: fair
20:23:10 * dimsum__ wonders if you all are on the phone or irc chat?
20:23:19 <dhellmann> dimsum__: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-cross-project-session-planning
20:23:32 <dimsum__> ah
20:23:46 <lifeless> dimsum__: I'm just here
20:24:11 <dhellmann> yeah, we're not on the phone or anything, but most of the discussion is happening in the etherpad
20:27:09 <devananda> dhellmann: by my count, we've got 10 sessions with several +1's now
20:27:45 <dhellmann> devananda: cool, thanks, I'm following discussions but hadn't counted. Do you want to bold those?
20:27:54 <devananda> dhellmann: k
20:27:57 <dhellmann> devananda: ty
20:28:44 <dhellmann> so 10 out of 14...
20:29:01 <lifeless> how many slots do we have?
20:29:11 <dhellmann> markmcclain, devananda, sdague, flaper87, annegentle, lifeless : are we ready to eliminate any more sessions?
20:29:13 <dhellmann> lifeless: 14
20:29:22 <dhellmann> at least that was my count
20:29:39 <dhellmann> lifeless: double check my math? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VsFdRYGbX5eCde81XDV7TrPBfEC7cgtOFikruYmqbPY/edit#gid=569963128
20:30:16 <markmcclain> project deletion.. seemed to get lost in etherpad… what does everyone thing?
20:30:21 <markmcclain> s/thing/think/
20:30:32 <lifeless> 7*2
20:31:35 <dhellmann> lifeless: thanks
20:31:36 <devananda> markmcclain: is there much to talk about?
20:31:55 <markmcclain> from an ops perspective there's no real standard
20:32:19 <markmcclain> and that interface would need to be available any interested project
20:32:39 <dhellmann> yeah, this is an area where we can do some greenfield API design consistently
20:32:40 <lifeless> markmcclain: it seems like the design work has been done, and there's just some questions about what contexts the python API might be used from?
20:33:08 <lifeless> markmcclain: sounds like the model of 'pick one project and work with it, then another etc' might fit well?
20:33:47 <lifeless> markmcclain: I'm just wrestling with whether the initiative will actually move forward from a cross-project session: it seems like its already sufficiently mature and uncontentious...
20:34:46 <devananda> Getting notifications to users looks like it has two proposals. #10 and #25. Combine them?
20:35:19 <markmcclain> lifeless: mainly was mainly wondering if we needed to give some room even for something that most agree on
20:35:51 <dhellmann> devananda: ah, I didn't recognize those as the same thing, interesting
20:36:39 <dhellmann> devananda: it sounds like #25 has some cinder-specific work to propose as a standard, rather than a new service (which is what I'm getting from #10)
20:37:06 <lifeless> dhellmann: all the more reason to get them all talking together IMO
20:37:19 <dhellmann> lifeless: yep
20:37:56 <dhellmann> hrm, if I move them we'll lose our numbering
20:38:00 <dhellmann> I'll fix that after the meeting
20:38:47 <lifeless> dhellmann: numbering is already cactus
20:39:00 <devananda> dhellmann: I'll strike out 25 and bold 8, leaving the merge to you for later
20:39:09 <dhellmann> lifeless: the numbers should line up with the spreadsheet rows
20:39:27 <dhellmann> devananda: ++
20:43:41 <devananda> rather than hash out more on the topics that already have a concensus
20:43:51 <devananda> i'm looking at the ones that have mixed votes
20:43:55 <lifeless> dhellmann: long as the numbers within the etherpad are consistent we're ok :)
20:44:27 <dhellmann> lifeless: yep, and the titles are copied and pasted so I can re-align based on those if I have to
20:44:50 <dimsum__> dhellmann: where would we talk about changes to the release process given the big tent ideas? (global requirements etc)
20:44:55 <devananda> here's 3 more: documentation, project deletion, service users / unified policy
20:45:09 <devananda> dhellmann: also, what about taking 2 slots for some of these discussions?
20:45:15 <dhellmann> dimsum__: we have some session within the release management track for those
20:45:23 <dimsum__> dhellmann: ack thx
20:45:26 <dhellmann> devananda: do you have anything specific in mind?
20:46:00 <devananda> in-team scaling? notifications to end-users? release models?
20:46:17 <devananda> I could imagine each of those being somewhat contentous, or at least having many viewppoints that we'd benefit from hearing
20:46:17 <lifeless> I'm going to advocate for notifications to end users
20:46:41 <dhellmann> lifeless: getting 2 slots?
20:46:44 <lifeless> we had firedrills with HP Helion release stuff a year back because of the lack of a good answer there
20:46:57 <lifeless> I'm not sure about needing two slots
20:47:07 <dhellmann> yeah, I'm not inclined to give anyone 2 slots at this point
20:47:14 <annegentle> does release mgmt have a track?
20:47:26 <lifeless> crossed wires, though you were talking about what to put in the 4 slots
20:47:28 <dhellmann> annegentle: yes
20:47:40 <dhellmann> if not a track, at least some time on friday
20:47:44 <dhellmann> but I think there's a track
20:47:55 <devananda> lifeless: sorry. I posted two different lists. first for 'things that dont have consensus yet' and second for 'things that might be worth 2 slots'
20:48:14 <lifeless> relmgmt has wed afternoon
20:48:18 <lifeless> and a working slot on thursday
20:48:36 <dhellmann> thanks, lifeless
20:48:38 <dimsum__> https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/design+summit/Release%20Management
20:48:43 <dhellmann> the session schedule is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VsFdRYGbX5eCde81XDV7TrPBfEC7cgtOFikruYmqbPY/edit#gid=569963128
20:48:49 <dhellmann> also the link from dims
20:48:54 <lifeless> so lets include Roles for service users
20:49:01 <lifeless> with policy file rolled in
20:49:35 <dhellmann> yeah, the policy/roles stuff seems to have some consensus
20:52:07 <dimsum__> dhellmann: i see a "API working Group" is there somewhere a slot for the "Security WG"?
20:52:19 <dhellmann> dimsum__: they have a track
20:52:40 <dhellmann> other than the policy and role stuff, I don't think there were security-related proposals
20:52:49 <dhellmann> dimsum__: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit#gid=827503418
20:52:53 <dimsum__> ah found them
20:52:54 <dimsum__> thx
20:53:11 <dhellmann> I'm going to nic "Cloud Service Federation"
20:53:32 <dhellmann> I wish that logging session proposal was stronger
20:54:51 <dhellmann> it also looks like we agree to leave out the big tent session
20:55:18 <markmcclain> dhellmann: we don't have to take exactly what is proposed
20:55:25 <dhellmann> that's true
20:55:42 <dhellmann> markmcclain: do you mean we should define another logging session, or something else?
20:56:32 <markmcclain> yeah…we can always to work community to polish up any sessions that are good in concept but missing items in the proposal
20:56:43 <dimsum__> dhellmann: on an email thread the person who logged #24 is pointing to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_cascading_solution
20:57:15 <devananda> dimsum__: that was proposed in paris ...
20:57:22 <devananda> is this going to just be a repeat?
20:57:25 <dimsum__> devananda: y, same person
20:57:28 <dhellmann> yeah, that proposal has already been rejected
20:58:25 <dimsum__> yep
20:58:37 <dimsum__> not advocating, just adding data :)
20:58:42 <dhellmann> yep
20:59:05 <dhellmann> annegentle, devananda, markmcclain, lifeless: we're about out of time for a 1 hour slot here. Would it be productive to keep going?
20:59:13 <dhellmann> dimsum__ ^^
20:59:21 * dimsum__ drops off :) thx everyone
20:59:26 <dhellmann> thanks, dimsum__
20:59:27 <stevemar> theres a lottt of good sessions there
20:59:35 <annegentle> I can keep going a little bit longer
20:59:48 <annegentle> at least 15 mins
21:00:12 <lifeless> I need to bounce
21:00:13 <lifeless> gl
21:00:19 <dhellmann> thanks, lifeless
21:00:45 <markmcclain> I've got a few more minutes
21:01:37 <dhellmann> annegentle, markmcclain, and devananda : should we try to finish the list, or should I go back to the proposers from some of the "needs more work" sessions and ask them for more details by monday?
21:01:50 <dhellmann> that's going to be a tight deadline, maybe early tuesday?
21:01:54 <annegentle> dhellmann: so, for Lana at least, she's off for the weekend (Aussie)
21:02:04 <markmcclain> early tues would work
21:02:05 <annegentle> but will be back online sooner than us
21:02:18 <annegentle> I think it's worthwhile to ask for more details
21:02:27 <markmcclain> do we have enough feedback to make sure the proposers can fix things?
21:02:41 <dhellmann> annegentle: we should look at that one again, because I'm surprised it's mixed
21:02:45 <devananda> dhellmann: I've got to run -- I think we're close enough to call it done for now
21:02:55 <dhellmann> devananda: cool, thanks
21:03:10 <dhellmann> annegentle: it's +1 and +0, I'm not sure why that's mixed.
21:03:21 <dhellmann> Does anyone think the docs session is *not* ready as the proposal stands?
21:03:21 <annegentle> dhellmann: ok
21:03:38 <dhellmann> remember, these are our proposals to the TC, not a final list
21:03:40 <annegentle> dhellmann: there was just confusion about audience -- but if that's clear now, that's fine
21:03:53 <devananda> dhellmann: I probably wont have time on monday for another pass, fyi. carry on w/o me :)
21:03:56 <dhellmann> annegentle: I think you cleared that up by saying there is an ops session
21:03:59 <annegentle> dhellmann: and she can clear up for the proposal itself to drum up attendeses
21:04:02 <dhellmann> devananda: cool, thanks
21:04:03 <markmcclain> +1 for docs
21:04:06 <annegentle> cool
21:04:10 <dhellmann> ok, docs is in for now then
21:04:37 <dhellmann> so that leaves 2 slots
21:05:14 <annegentle> ok, I'd really like "tags for cross project consumers"
21:05:24 <annegentle> and then ask for more info on logging and UX
21:05:38 <dhellmann> really? the tags one felt like something they could just sort of do, without needing a lot of face time
21:05:56 <markmcclain> I think UX _could_ be a useful session if done right
21:06:08 <stevemar> 27 (UX) needs to be narrowed down a bit more
21:06:12 <annegentle> Project deletion may come out of some of the roles-for-service-users/unified-policy-file if we ask them to?
21:06:24 <annegentle> Did horizon reject UX proposal?
21:06:33 <annegentle> (not that only horizon could host it)
21:06:43 <david-lyle> horizon who?
21:07:02 <stevemar> david-lyle, #27 here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit#gid=827503418
21:07:14 <annegentle> hey david-lyle :) wondering about Piet's cross project UX proposal
21:07:40 <david-lyle> I think his goal is broader than horizon
21:07:51 <dhellmann> yes, the proposal specifically says that
21:07:53 <david-lyle> I don't think this is new or contentious
21:08:08 <david-lyle> I recommended concrete proposals to the mailing list
21:08:21 <david-lyle> I don't think it hurts to discuss it
21:08:24 <annegentle> yeah it is broader than horizon, did he propose to the conf itself, do you know?
21:08:50 <david-lyle> He did have a conference proposal, but I think the topic was a little different
21:09:07 <david-lyle> more around doing UX work in OpenStack
21:09:16 <david-lyle> more reporting less discussion
21:09:19 <dhellmann> we should really require a link to an etherpad or wiki page next time
21:09:57 <dhellmann> annegentle: do you want to contact Piet while I contact Rocky?
21:10:25 <david-lyle> he's Piet on IRC
21:10:47 <david-lyle> apparently not in this room, but in #openstack-horizon
21:12:04 <annegentle> dhellmann: ok will do
21:12:08 <dhellmann> annegentle: thanks
21:12:28 <dhellmann> david-lyle: ok, I'm going offline soon so I was hoping for email
21:12:45 <david-lyle> ah, I can dig that up, just a sec
21:12:54 <annegentle> heh I should go offline soon :)
21:13:11 <annegentle> I have his email (looks to be sure)
21:13:23 <dhellmann> I think that's about as far as we're going to get tonight. Shall we call it done, and pick up Tuesday? Before or during the TC meeting?
21:13:29 <annegentle> yep
21:13:40 <annegentle> (yep, I have piet's email)
21:13:45 <annegentle> yeah let's call it done
21:13:46 <markmcclain> dhellmann: +1
21:14:04 <annegentle> uhhhh not sure on TC meeting agenda so far but seems like worthwhile to discuss there
21:14:17 <dhellmann> ok, thanks everyone for helping with this, I think it was a really fruitful exercise
21:14:31 <dhellmann> annegentle: I'll add it to the agenda
21:14:52 <dhellmann> #endmeeting