18:00:27 <krtaylor> #startmeeting third-party 18:00:28 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Jul 28 18:00:27 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:29 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 18:00:32 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' 18:00:46 <krtaylor> Hi all, who's here for the third-party meeting? 18:00:52 <mkoderer> hi there 18:01:01 <AndChat|641136> Hi 18:01:03 <asselin> hi 18:01:08 <joa> hi 18:01:11 <krtaylor> hi, welcome 18:01:15 <daya_k> hi 18:01:41 <krtaylor> sweston, here today? 18:01:53 <krtaylor> anteaya, you around? 18:02:13 <krtaylor> well, lets get started maybe they will show up 18:02:23 <krtaylor> joa, you are here for a little while? 18:02:40 <joa> yup, I chose to go home for the meeting so i'll be here all the way 18:03:06 <krtaylor> ok, well, I have given up saying "this might be a short meeting" 18:03:10 <krtaylor> joa, great 18:03:10 <joa> :p 18:03:29 <krtaylor> welcome everyone! 18:03:38 <krtaylor> here is the agenda for today's meeting: 18:03:48 <krtaylor> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#Agenda_for_next_meeting 18:04:03 <krtaylor> not a full agenda, but we always have more time for open questins 18:04:07 <krtaylor> and questions 18:04:21 <asselin> ok, i have a question for the end: how to disable jenkins start messages 18:04:41 <krtaylor> asselin, great, bring that up at the end 18:04:45 <krtaylor> #topic Welcome & Reminder of OpenStack Mission 18:04:55 <joa> I might cover that in my subject :p 18:04:58 <krtaylor> #info The OpenStack Open Source Cloud Mission: to produce the ubiquitous Open Source Cloud Computing platform that will meet the needs of public and private clouds regardless of size, by being simple to implement and massively scalable. 18:05:04 <krtaylor> joa true! 18:05:15 <krtaylor> #topic Review of previous week's open action items 18:05:45 <krtaylor> sweston had an action to push a terminology patch, I'll ping him later about that 18:06:04 <krtaylor> we need to get some of those items discussing 18:06:26 <krtaylor> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ThirdPartyVotingTerms 18:06:39 <krtaylor> just for reference, any comments pre-patch welcomed 18:08:00 <krtaylor> I dont see any other actions 18:08:04 <krtaylor> onward then 18:08:07 <krtaylor> #topic Announcements 18:08:19 <krtaylor> anyone have any third-party announcements? 18:08:37 <joa> what do you mean by announcements ? 18:09:04 <krtaylor> anything that you'd like other third-party teams to know 18:09:19 <joa> oh. Well, my subject will cover a fez things about setting up a CI 18:09:27 <joa> but I woudldn't put it as an announcements 18:09:48 <krtaylor> like, it is really early, but, anteaya and I are planning a meetup for mid-cycle in Kilo 18:09:57 <anteaya> o/ 18:10:00 <krtaylor> no specifics yet, just early planning stage 18:10:04 <krtaylor> hey anteaya 18:10:07 <joa> a wild anteaya appears :) 18:10:11 <anteaya> yes 18:10:18 <joa> okay 18:10:23 <krtaylor> hehheh 18:10:45 <krtaylor> so with no other announcements... 18:10:47 <krtaylor> #topic OpenStack Program Items 18:11:20 <krtaylor> joa, we had your easing item here 18:11:33 <joa> yup 18:11:41 <joa> want me to start on it ? 18:11:49 <krtaylor> joa, would you like to frame that discussion for others not familiar 18:11:55 <joa> Yeah;, sure 18:12:15 <joa> The big picture is that as a newcomer in the openstack community 18:12:29 * krtaylor checks the pastebin 18:12:34 <joa> I had to setup a 3rd-party CI for my company (Scality), for cinder 18:12:54 <joa> Thing is, I'm an administration-hater 18:12:59 <joa> and newbie at that :) 18:13:12 <joa> So I kind of encountered a lot of issues while trying to understand and setup the CI 18:13:24 <joa> and I thought of giving feedback to help others in my case 18:13:33 <joa> so I got a few ideas written in the pastebin 18:13:33 <krtaylor> everyone I have met doing this are more dev than ops 18:13:40 <joa> I'm a dev :D 18:13:43 <krtaylor> #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/86125/ 18:13:46 <krtaylor> me too 18:13:53 <joa> but we're currently starting to engage in openstack 18:14:01 <joa> soo I'm kinda alone for the moment 18:14:10 <joa> and we do not have a lot of resources for this yet 18:14:46 <joa> To complete a bit my pastebin 18:14:51 <mpaolino> Hello third-party folks, I'm going to work at a CI as well (for Snabbswitch) 18:15:02 <mpaolino> I started with a patch to devstack 18:15:06 <mpaolino> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108714/ 18:15:17 <mpaolino> reviews and comments are welcome ;-) 18:15:18 <joa> When I reached a simple CI setup, I wrote the following etherpad, that I'll try to put into the newly created manual repository (that anteaya pointed me to) 18:15:23 <krtaylor> hi mpaolino, one minute, there will be open floor at the end of the meeting 18:15:34 <mpaolino> sure, np! 18:15:42 <joa> So, for later reading you might be interested to look at that : https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Setting_up_a_3rd-party_CI___Issues_encountered 18:15:56 <joa> this is part of my 'improving third_party.rst" 18:16:04 <krtaylor> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Setting_up_a_3rd-party_CI___Issues_encountered 18:16:25 <joa> so my idea follows two main lines: 18:16:42 <joa> 1- Improving manuals/docs/howtos to be clear even for newbies like I am 18:17:13 <joa> 2- Improving the available configuration files (I used jaypipe's which were a bit outdated, and despite that it was a great help) 18:17:30 <krtaylor> joa, thats great, there are a lot of opportunities to share experiences and best practices here 18:17:33 <joa> the good thing would be (imho) to make use of the infra/config repository 18:18:12 <daya_k> can i propose, pre-built master and slave vm templates, that folks can download and get started? 18:18:45 <krtaylor> joa, see already help in this area 18:18:55 <krtaylor> daya_k, sure! 18:19:03 <asselin> joa, I think that's a great idea. I've been working on a fork of jaypipes stuff, but it seems it would be nice if it were in infra/config...special place for all3rd party ci 18:19:26 <krtaylor> maybe a templates area? 18:19:27 <daya_k> i went thru a lot of pain getting them to just working, including bad ssh configs, incorrect permissions on the zuul directories, these can all be avoided. 18:19:30 <joa> asselin: I'm actually thinking of giving enough pointers for people to pick what they need in infra/config 18:19:49 <joa> like: Okay for this; you need that pipeline. etc. 18:19:53 <krtaylor> yes, and lots of comments inline 18:20:04 <joa> then the guy can pick the pipeline definitions he needs and all that stuff 18:20:20 <joa> then, picking from infra/config would ensure that it's up-to-date 18:20:23 <asselin> joa, I'd like a simple script to do it all...kindof like devstack...and anyone can get 3rd party ci working. 18:20:25 <anteaya> we can bring up the location at the infra meeting tomorrow, if someone will represent that at the meeting 18:20:37 <joa> asselin: yeah why not 18:20:47 <anteaya> keep in mind, stackforge might be the selected location, I don't know what others think yet 18:21:03 <krtaylor> joa asselin lets start with templates, then we can automate, that would be really nice 18:21:04 <joa> The important part is that it must be an obvious reference 18:21:23 <joa> otherwise it defeats its purpose 18:21:42 <asselin> joa +1 18:22:19 <anteaya> anyone willing to take this idea to the infra meeting tomorrow 18:22:24 <krtaylor> anteaya, I don't see what we can have some templates in /config although I don't get to decide such matters 18:22:26 <anteaya> and ask where this work should live? 18:22:38 <anteaya> right, neither do I 18:22:46 <anteaya> but I think we should discuss with infra 18:22:49 <krtaylor> joa, would you like to do that? 18:22:53 <anteaya> so we all agree on the home for it 18:23:04 <joa> krtaylor: let me check the meeting's time 18:23:30 <joa> mhh a bit late on my side sadly 18:23:31 <anteaya> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting 18:23:40 <asselin> Tuesday 1900 UTC 18:23:44 <anteaya> 1900 utc tomorrow 18:23:57 <anteaya> add an agenda item same as you do for third party agenda 18:24:12 <anteaya> anyone else able to make that meeting and ask the question? 18:24:25 <anteaya> I will be boarding a plane so it won't be me 18:24:34 * krtaylor check calendar 18:24:53 <krtaylor> I can if noone else will be there 18:25:04 <krtaylor> asselin, you want it? 18:25:18 <asselin> I just checked my calendar and have a conflict for the 1st half 18:25:29 <asselin> I can be there for the 2nd 18:25:43 <joa> it might be enough, no ? 18:25:51 <krtaylor> not sure when it would come up 18:25:59 <joa> right 18:26:01 <asselin> yes 18:26:09 <beecee> krtaylor: I will be having similar experiences to joa from an ops perspective once I get my build hardware installed next week and will be at tomorrow's meeting, but being very new I don't want to be raising it ;) 18:26:19 <krtaylor> asselin, let's do it this wayI will if you aren't there 18:26:39 <asselin> ok, we can request it in the 2nd half. 18:26:58 <krtaylor> beecee, great, feel free to review the initial doc patch and we'll fix some of the pain 18:27:09 <anteaya> you can add it to the end of the agenda and tell jeblair your timing 18:27:18 <krtaylor> #action asselin and krtaylor to attend Infra meeting and propose /config location for template configuration files 18:27:18 <anteaya> so he knows when he is chairing the meeting 18:27:25 <anteaya> great, well done 18:27:38 <krtaylor> asselin, can you add the agenda item? 18:27:45 <asselin> krtaylor, sure 18:27:53 <krtaylor> asselin, thanks 18:28:25 <krtaylor> good, joa anything else you want to say on that subject? 18:28:38 <joa> Well, mayhbe just summing the ideas, as a summary ? 18:28:44 <joa> otherwise i'm good :) 18:29:13 <krtaylor> joa, that will be a good place to start 18:29:18 <krtaylor> alright then 18:29:32 <krtaylor> I have to throw in my weekly plug for begging reviews 18:29:44 <krtaylor> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/config+branch:master+topic:third-party,n,z 18:30:03 <anteaya> thank you 18:30:04 <krtaylor> please go review these and other third-party infra related 18:30:14 <krtaylor> lets get these moving 18:30:32 <anteaya> this one is new and needs some awareness: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109565/ 18:30:40 <anteaya> it involves the recheck syntax 18:31:06 <krtaylor> yes, important one 18:31:14 <anteaya> actually it might be worth someone adding an item to the infra agenda to clarify exactly what recheck scenaarios need to be supported by third party 18:31:50 <anteaya> sdague makes a valid point but brings up a scenario that bobball comments on 18:32:03 <anteaya> would be good to have an infra discussion about that and get some clarity 18:32:23 <anteaya> someone willing to do that at tomorrow's infra meeting? 18:32:36 <krtaylor> #action krtaylor to ask sdague for discussion in infra meeting on recheck syntax clarification 18:32:40 <krtaylor> yes :) 18:32:43 <joa> Soo the idea is to change the current recheck yntax specific toa third-party ? 18:32:51 <anteaya> krtaylor: actually just ask infra 18:32:58 <joa> (or allow third parties to be free about how they command their CIs ?) 18:33:11 <krtaylor> basically put rechecks in their own namespace 18:33:13 <anteaya> sdague usually picks up his produce box at that time, so isn't usually in attendance for that meeting 18:33:17 <joa> ok 18:33:29 <krtaylor> anteaya, good info 18:33:37 <krtaylor> I'll add to agenda then 18:33:43 <krtaylor> and discuss 18:33:44 <anteaya> the motivation is to clear the third party syntax out of what infra needs from recheck 18:34:06 <anteaya> if that means more flexibility for third party that is fine, but we have to follow a syntax format 18:34:20 <anteaya> and discuss a grammar with input from infra and qa 18:34:35 <beecee> would that mean existing 3rd party systems would need to update what syntax they accept? 18:34:36 <joa> ok 18:34:40 <krtaylor> #action krtaylor to add recheck syntax clarification discussion to infra agenda 18:34:41 <anteaya> beecee: yes 18:34:54 <anteaya> beecee: but we need to decide what format that would take first 18:35:03 <beecee> anteaya: gotcha 18:35:07 <anteaya> so participate in teh conversation and don't make any changes yet 18:35:08 <anteaya> thanks 18:35:46 <krtaylor> anything else? 18:35:50 <anteaya> not from me 18:35:52 <krtaylor> lets move on then 18:35:52 <asselin> (I updated the agenda. Please update/fix https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting) 18:36:07 <krtaylor> asselin, thanks! 18:36:13 <krtaylor> #topic Deadlines & Deprecations 18:36:23 <krtaylor> anything to communicate here? 18:36:40 <krtaylor> I haven't heard any third-party related 18:37:09 <anteaya> asselin: edited, added the word templates, since templates are the item under discussion 18:37:36 <krtaylor> ok, so the next had no item 18:37:46 <krtaylor> #topic Highlighting a Program or Gerrit Account 18:38:11 <krtaylor> which leave more time for open discussion 18:38:14 <krtaylor> #topic Open Discussion 18:38:47 <asselin> anyone know how to disable jenkins start messages? 18:38:55 <joa> yup 18:39:02 <joa> so the thing is 18:39:13 <joa> it's part of the definition of the pipeline in zuul's layout (afair) 18:39:35 <joa> if you just comment out the start and finish blocks 18:39:38 <joa> it's deactivated 18:39:47 <joa> relatively simple but you have to dig through it to get it 18:39:50 <anteaya> joa: have you a code sample? 18:40:00 <joa> that's why I'd like my first draft of the doc to have it. 18:40:03 <anteaya> or could you put one on paste.openstack.org 18:40:08 <asselin> so comment this out: start: 18:40:08 <asselin> gerrit: 18:40:08 <asselin> verified: 0 18:40:10 <joa> anteaya: sadly, no access to my CI server from home :( 18:40:16 <anteaya> joa: understood 18:40:18 <joa> yup 18:40:25 <joa> asselin: that's it 18:40:45 <asselin> joa ok thanks will try that out 18:40:51 <joa> you're welcome 18:41:07 <anteaya> nice work 18:41:07 <luqas> I do have a sample 18:41:08 <joa> that's party of the configurations bits that I wish to see obviously explained 18:41:10 <krtaylor> nice 18:41:11 <luqas> # start: # gerrit: # verified: 0 18:41:15 <luqas> ups 18:41:19 <anteaya> thanks luqas 18:41:27 <luqas> paste bin better? 18:41:29 <anteaya> joa: makes sense, and I agree 18:41:40 <anteaya> luqas: yes, for anything more than one line 18:41:45 <anteaya> but it is okay 18:41:49 * krtaylor thinks of a FAQ again 18:41:52 <joa> anteaya: I'll try to cover that in my first draft :) might be long to come though 18:42:03 <anteaya> joa: break it up in pieces 18:42:12 <anteaya> it will take a while to review all the pieces 18:42:13 <krtaylor> ++ 18:42:18 <luqas> http://paste.openstack.org/show/88745/ 18:42:19 <anteaya> make it easy for the reviewers 18:42:31 <anteaya> thanks luqas 18:42:35 <anteaya> better format there 18:42:38 <krtaylor> always better in smaller chunks 18:42:44 <luqas> these lines in /etc/zuul/layout.yaml 18:42:46 * anteaya nods 18:42:51 <joa> anteaya: should I make multiple different changes or simply multiple patchsets in one change ? 18:43:03 <anteaya> make one patchset first 18:43:07 <anteaya> and lets see 18:43:15 <anteaya> just get something up so we can start from there 18:43:22 <joa> alright 18:43:40 <anteaya> for code we like 400 lines or less per patch 18:43:49 <krtaylor> and don't forget to set topic to third-party 18:43:53 <anteaya> for docs, it is nice to have something around 80 lines at a time 18:44:04 <anteaya> but that might be my personal preference 18:44:23 <anteaya> yup, nice to have them all available under the same topic: 18:44:41 <joa> krtaylor: oh ok 18:44:50 <krtaylor> anteaya, speaking of, are you stuck on any of yours? how can we help? 18:44:50 <asselin> btw, I looking at http://ci.openstack.org/stackforge.html & it seems like a good place for 3rd party ci 18:45:11 <anteaya> krtaylor: I think most are okay, mostly I was waiting for infra-core to return from oscon 18:45:22 <anteaya> I hope to see mine merged this week sometime 18:45:25 <krtaylor> anteaya, understood 18:45:32 <anteaya> will ping if I need more eyes, and thanks 18:45:41 <krtaylor> I'll refresh my reviews 18:46:02 <anteaya> kk 18:46:08 <krtaylor> mpaolino, anything else you want to say about that patch you posted here earlier? 18:46:25 <mpaolino> yes sure, sorry if I interrupted you before ;) 18:46:35 <mpaolino> basically I started developing a patch for devstack, to enable the possibility to use (automatically) the latest version of qemu and libvirt from tar releases 18:46:53 <mpaolino> My use case is a CI server that tests Openstack features related to snabbswitch (www.snabb.co), which has qemu 2.1 and libvirt 1.2.6 as dependencies 18:47:04 <anteaya> mpaolino: have you discussed your patch with anyone in qa? 18:47:05 <mpaolino> the link is : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108714/ 18:47:15 <anteaya> like dtroyer or sdague? 18:47:25 <mpaolino> actually not yet, but I would like to 18:47:37 <anteaya> yeah, I'd recommend that first 18:47:51 <anteaya> adding patches with new dependencies usually doesn't go over well 18:48:08 <mpaolino> I think this may be of interest also for some other folks here in the third party group, so I would love to have receive comments from you guys, since are experts in CI maybe I believe your comments may be precious 18:48:11 <anteaya> since we have a pretty strong depencency process we follow 18:48:46 <mpaolino> s/have receive/receive 18:48:53 <asselin> there should be a way to configure devstack & not add any dependencies. 18:48:55 <anteaya> I'd start off spending some time in #openstack-qa and learning the process of introducing new dependencies 18:49:12 <anteaya> and the third party space includes women as well 18:49:15 <anteaya> not just guys 18:49:28 <mpaolino> ok I'll try to contact dtroyer or sdague, is there any suggested way to do it? 18:49:28 <asselin> the script is full of hooks and ways to override variables. if one or two are missing, should be easy to get that accepted. 18:49:44 <anteaya> asselin: that approach would probably have a greater chance of being recieved 18:50:05 <anteaya> mpaolino: yes, join #openstack-qa 18:50:13 <anteaya> and lurk for a bit 18:50:25 <anteaya> then ask about the process to add dependencies 18:50:41 <mpaolino> :) 18:50:48 <krtaylor> mpaolino, I'd need to look at it closer, yes -infra and -qa will help alot 18:51:29 <krtaylor> mpaolino, there is other ways to change the setup of the testing environment after devstack too, but I need more specifics 18:51:50 <krtaylor> but start with a -qa join 18:52:03 <mpaolino> ok 18:52:25 <krtaylor> nine minutes, anything else on open discussion? 18:52:32 <beecee> krtaylor: wait 18:52:32 <mpaolino> with dependencies you meant a dependency with dev-stack, am I right? 18:52:41 <anteaya> any dependency 18:52:50 <mpaolino> I see 18:52:53 <anteaya> we have a process for dependencies 18:53:05 <anteaya> learning the process goes a long way to further your happiness 18:53:10 <krtaylor> ++ 18:53:38 <beecee> krtaylor: can the 3rd party pages be updated with links to the formal policy announcements for 3rd party testing? I'm wanting something to show my managers as to why I'm diverting machines to this to keep our driver in the tree 18:53:59 <anteaya> what do you mean by formal policy announcements? 18:54:04 <krtaylor> hehheh, I understand your pain 18:54:23 <joa> beecee: for which project do you wwant to do this ? 18:54:29 <krtaylor> beecee, we are in the process of defining the unwritten requirements 18:54:47 <joa> for instance, I know that cinder maintains a grid of the third-party drivers, with their "CI" status 18:54:50 <krtaylor> there are global requirements and project specific requirements for third-party testing 18:55:06 <krtaylor> joa, nova does as well 18:55:08 <beecee> krtaylor: yes there are, but they aren't all in the same place 18:55:29 <krtaylor> beecee, yes, we talked about a links page to point to them all 18:55:42 <beecee> krtaylor: cool, then I just need to put them there. 18:55:46 <beecee> point 18:55:54 <krtaylor> but usually one CI system is only interested in one projects requirements, hence the problem 18:56:10 <krtaylor> beecee, feel free to add to third-party.rst 18:56:13 <anteaya> what are formal policy announcements? 18:56:38 <krtaylor> beecee, see the link I posed earlier for other changes to third-party.rst for reference 18:57:12 <krtaylor> beecee, policy = requirements for testing drivers? 18:57:40 <luqas> regarding the merging policy, is it automatically set for merge after a number of +2 reviews? 18:57:41 <beecee> krtaylor: yes, but more where the justification for that policy occurred 18:57:56 <anteaya> luqas: no, a core needs to set workflow to +1 18:58:03 <anteaya> luqas: it is a manual process 18:58:14 <luqas> ok, thanks anteaya 18:58:15 <anteaya> beecee: what are you looking for here? 18:58:19 <krtaylor> beecee, alot of the justification came from weeks and weeks of maillist and irc discussion 18:58:20 <anteaya> luqas: np, good question 18:58:53 <beecee> krtaylor: yeah, and I'm coming in late to the party 18:58:55 <anteaya> beecee: yes, if your managers aren't reading the ml and the channel and meeting logs, it will be tough to condense it so they understand 18:59:05 <anteaya> beecee: everyone has to start somewhere 18:59:09 <anteaya> we are out of time 18:59:12 <beecee> anteaya: that's my current problem, I'm playing catch up ;) 18:59:22 <anteaya> beecee: let's continue to try to get you what you need 18:59:30 <anteaya> I'm not sure what that is yet though 18:59:50 <krtaylor> beecee, it is a tough problem, lets move to -infra 18:59:58 <beecee> krtaylor: ok 19:00:05 <krtaylor> thanks everyone, another good meeting! 19:00:15 <krtaylor> #endmeeting