17:01:59 <sarob> #startmeeting training-guides
17:02:00 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Nov 24 17:01:59 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:02:01 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:02:03 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_guides'
17:02:31 <rluethi> good evening.
17:02:33 <matjazp> hi all
17:02:40 <sayali> hello
17:02:45 <sarob> Hello
17:02:49 <MeganR> Hello
17:02:56 <ShillaSaebi> Hello
17:04:09 <ShillaSaebi> I think we got the time this time
17:04:15 <ShillaSaebi> *right this time i mean
17:04:31 <MeganR> :)
17:04:34 <sarob> #topic kilo plans
17:04:37 <matjazp> ShillaSaebi: I hear you - happend to me too few weeks ago
17:04:38 <sarob> Right
17:05:16 <matjazp> there are few patches in the pipeline about enhancing existing docbook content
17:05:40 <matjazp> we should decide about that
17:05:46 <sayali> I think its on the agenda too
17:06:05 <sarob> But no bp or specs
17:06:23 <rluethi> sarob: ?
17:06:25 <sayali> what sarob ?
17:07:08 <sarob> I was hoping for a few bp and/or specs
17:07:26 <sarob> To set the agenda for the kilo cycle
17:07:32 <rluethi> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136633/
17:08:04 <rluethi> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-training-guides/+spec/training-vm-in-public-cloud
17:08:08 <matjazp> do we use doc's spec repo or ours?
17:08:14 <sarob> Ah didn't see that
17:08:35 <sarob> We agreed with the docs team to use theirs
17:08:48 <sarob> At least the last time we discussed it
17:09:27 <rluethi> sarob: I submitted the spec to our repo because that's where our other spec are.
17:09:33 <rluethi> sarob: are you going to move them?
17:10:03 <sarob> Sure I can do that this morning
17:10:54 <sarob> The ones I created are stale
17:11:37 <matjazp> sarob: so do we delete or move them? or move them to juno folder in spec for archive purposes?
17:11:58 <sarob> On second look
17:12:31 <sarob> Only shillasaebi spec is relevant still
17:12:54 <sarob> If the team is okay with it
17:13:10 <sarob> I'd like to just remove the whole specs dir
17:13:35 <ShillaSaebi> yeah I'm good with that
17:13:38 <sarob> I'll double check with annegentle that we are still go to use docs-specs
17:13:49 <sarob> Okay
17:14:12 <sarob> Other thoughts?
17:14:57 <rluethi> sarob: I think the person writing up a spec should want to implement the feature (or at least believe it should be done).
17:15:03 <dguitarbite> hello
17:15:14 <sarob> Agreed
17:15:32 <matjazp> rluethi: yes, but not exclusively
17:15:32 <sarob> Evening dguitarbite
17:15:47 <rluethi> matjazp: what do you mean by exclusively?
17:15:58 <ShillaSaebi> others can join and help?
17:16:00 <ShillaSaebi> possibly
17:16:37 <dguitarbite> morning sarob
17:16:43 <dguitarbite> apologies for being late
17:16:47 <rluethi> all I'm saying is I wrote a spec with some reluctance because I don't think it should be done in Kilo.
17:16:54 <dguitarbite> I was a bit too deep into Unreal Engine 4 source code
17:17:36 <dguitarbite> rluethi: the b/p is registered in Kilo
17:17:45 <dguitarbite> does not mean that it should be implemented in Kilo
17:17:58 <dguitarbite> you could implement it or target the b/p for another release in future too
17:17:59 <sarob> Right
17:18:05 <dguitarbite> or keep in on hold with appropriate reasons
17:18:16 <sarob> We can document that stuff
17:18:23 <rluethi> dguitarbite: yeah, but why spend precious time speculating about random features that we might or might not do in the rather distant future?
17:18:36 <sarob> Most important is this release work
17:18:46 <sarob> Needs to be planned out
17:18:57 <sarob> Through bp
17:18:59 <dguitarbite> rluethi: its not speculation
17:19:13 <dguitarbite> these are desired features etc. etc. and we prioritize them as per the time/feedback etc.
17:19:20 <sarob> The docs team and TC
17:19:34 <sarob> Need to know what we have planned
17:19:53 <sarob> That's through the bp assigned to milestones
17:20:26 <ShillaSaebi> sounds good
17:20:32 <dguitarbite> sarob: from my side, I am almost ready with my patch
17:20:33 <dguitarbite> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136774/
17:20:37 <dguitarbite> this one is the dep.
17:20:57 <dguitarbite> for this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134538/ for the basic install guides
17:21:01 <dguitarbite> after this I will push the spec
17:21:11 <sarob> Okay
17:21:20 <matjazp> rluethi sent a mail to the ML, some of us commented about priorities.. do we have a consensus on that?
17:21:35 <ShillaSaebi> when did the mail go out
17:21:39 <ShillaSaebi> i don't remember seeing that one
17:22:01 <matjazp> 11/21/2014
17:22:10 <rluethi> ShillaSaebi: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-November/005510.html
17:22:30 <sarob> Ah right
17:22:38 <rluethi> matjazp: I am fine with the priorities as suggested by you.
17:22:42 <matjazp> btw: good work writing that down, roger :)
17:23:08 <ShillaSaebi> ok i did see this
17:23:16 <ShillaSaebi> yeah thanks for putting this together, I'm fine with these prios
17:23:46 <sayali> I agree too.
17:24:33 <matjazp> rluethi: there you go - no BPs for you, as #1to #3 dont need them
17:25:00 <dguitarbite> the rest of them are my responsibilities which I will write up as b/ps :)
17:25:09 <sarob> Weird I don't have that email
17:25:10 <dguitarbite> rluethi: you dont need to work that hard ;)
17:25:10 <rluethi> matjazp: perfect :)
17:25:27 <sayali> I will write up #9 :)
17:25:30 <matjazp> rluethi: I knew you would be happy ;)
17:25:33 <rluethi> sarob: you replied to matjazp's reply.
17:25:57 <dguitarbite> sayali: do not forget #0!
17:26:56 <sarob> Strange
17:27:11 <sarob> I can't find it now
17:27:13 <sayali> dguitarbite: :/
17:27:32 <sarob> Found it
17:27:41 * dguitarbite #9 does not exist, I figured you are joking
17:28:16 <sarob> Need more coffee
17:28:16 <sayali> dguitarbite: it does! I wrote back a mail adding #9
17:28:20 <sayali> :P
17:28:31 <dguitarbite> ahh, ok :|
17:29:05 <sayali> dguitarbite: ;D
17:29:05 <matjazp> sayali: does #9 need bp?
17:29:09 <dguitarbite> sayali: I am not sure if its a spec
17:29:12 <dguitarbite> matjazp: I agree
17:29:20 <matjazp> seems like a patch
17:29:20 <dguitarbite> may be its a subpoint to the already existing scripts b/p
17:29:25 <dguitarbite> may be for the host side scripts
17:29:52 <dguitarbite> rluethi: sayali do you guys agree to discuss about the specs in labs after the meeting on docs IRC channel?
17:30:03 <sayali> well I thought it would be a bp if we want to have a variety of colors and variations for logsand stuff
17:30:04 <dguitarbite> we might need to figure out the number of specs that make sense
17:30:11 <rluethi> matjazp, dguitarbite: you'd be surprised how much is involved in making colors work well for the scripts. I looked into it before.
17:30:31 <rluethi> dguitarbite: sure, I've got an hour.
17:30:44 <dguitarbite> sayali: exactly, thats why I suggested to have a chat later on and finalize the b/p's required for labs section
17:30:58 * dguitarbite meeting need not be today but soonish
17:31:15 <sayali> dguitarbite: I am not sure I can make it today after the meeting.
17:31:17 <rluethi> dguitarbite: It's not the number of specs, but the kind of features that need a spec.
17:31:42 <sarob> I can't either :/
17:31:57 <sayali> dguitarbite: we could discuss it later this week if thats alright
17:32:04 <dguitarbite> rluethi: I meant to discuss these things, not to say that we just decide number of specs ... rather filter the features and classify them into required amount of specs
17:32:10 <dguitarbite> sayali: yes
17:32:20 <rluethi> dguitarbite: ah ok.
17:32:38 <dguitarbite> rluethi: it would be counterproductive otherwise
17:32:58 <rluethi> dguitarbite: so? that's not unheard of :).
17:33:04 <dguitarbite> ;)
17:34:08 <dguitarbite> lets move on
17:34:24 <rluethi> I would really like to talk about the point matjazp already brought up:
17:34:30 <rluethi> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-November/005518.html
17:34:45 <rluethi> we are getting lots of patches for docbook content.
17:34:47 <rluethi> why?
17:35:07 <rluethi> I thought that was going away for the most part.
17:35:13 <dguitarbite> may be because we are planning to remove them, people have finally started taking interest in that ?
17:35:32 <dguitarbite> is anyone trying to troll us?
17:36:17 <sayali> rluethi: dguitarbite content will be copied from the docbook right?
17:36:19 <matjazp> we'll the move is not here, so we neet to figure out what is useful and what's not
17:36:21 <rluethi> dguitarbite: hardly.
17:36:27 <matjazp> well
17:36:37 <sarob> How about I change the wiki to reflect our plans
17:36:47 <sarob> The changes plans
17:36:49 <sarob> Planned
17:36:50 <rluethi> ShillaSaebi?
17:36:52 <matjazp> some content update is still relevant
17:36:58 <dguitarbite> matjazp: around 1 or 2 pages are unique
17:37:04 <dguitarbite> which are virtualbox related
17:37:10 <dguitarbite> rest of them are repeating
17:37:14 <ShillaSaebi> so those should stay
17:37:15 <ShillaSaebi> the unique ones right
17:37:15 <dguitarbite> either copied from us or by us
17:37:25 <dguitarbite> ShillaSaebi: we could easliy push them into wikis
17:37:38 <ShillaSaebi> dguitarbite that sounds like a plan
17:37:48 <dguitarbite> the bigger question in this case is "Who will create/maintain the slides"
17:38:29 <dguitarbite> after my patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134538/ goes through
17:38:35 <matjazp> I still need a repo for quizzes, so I'll move all the relevant Q&A int RST format?
17:38:37 <sarob> Well we need to get that patch agreed to first
17:38:41 <rluethi> the other question is: wasn't the pilot in CA supposed to start these days? what are they working with? sarob?
17:38:42 <dguitarbite> it will be 1-2 weeks before the docs folder is almost empty
17:39:03 <sarob> Rluethi we started last thurs
17:39:13 <rluethi> sarob: so do they have slides?
17:39:24 <dguitarbite> sarob: this should work, annegentle is only worried about virtualbox content which is not included here
17:39:30 <rluethi> sarob: are you writing them as the course goes forward?
17:39:45 <dguitarbite> matjazp: about the quizzes, RST sounds good
17:40:01 <sarob> I was hoping this was going to be a team effort
17:40:26 <sarob> As the big patch gets approved
17:40:35 <rluethi> sarob: It won't be if you don't tell us :).
17:40:40 <sarob> Then the slides for chap 3-4 are important
17:40:42 <ShillaSaebi> haha
17:40:44 <dguitarbite> sarob: I will be busy with creating exercises with osbash, openstack-koans and managing the infra for training guides
17:41:04 <sarob> I'm motivated
17:41:06 <ShillaSaebi> if i can get someone to work together with me as part of a team effort, i will volunteer
17:41:06 <dguitarbite> I can review the slides :)
17:41:09 <sarob> So I will start
17:41:15 <ShillaSaebi> just don't want to be the single point
17:41:19 <ShillaSaebi> ok
17:41:38 <sarob> Nothing like making a fool of yourself
17:41:49 <sarob> In front of 60 people
17:41:55 <sarob> For motivation
17:41:59 <ShillaSaebi> haha
17:42:10 <sarob> My big picture
17:42:23 <sarob> Needs for running the training
17:42:28 <sarob> Is simple
17:42:32 <sarob> Slides
17:42:42 <sarob> Test clusters
17:42:51 <dguitarbite> sarob:  I can help out with the migration
17:42:52 <sarob> Quizzes
17:42:58 <dguitarbite> track the content and syllabus
17:43:05 <sarob> Cool
17:43:20 <rluethi> sarob: the training cluster in a public is not likely to happen this cycle (if ever).
17:43:32 <sarob> The finer points of how we do these things are important
17:43:39 <rluethi> sarob: I sort of expect most trainees will turn up with Windows machines.
17:44:06 <rluethi> sarob: so based on your experience/feedback, we might have to elevate the priority for Windows batch scripts.
17:44:07 <sarob> It's a mix of nothing, Linux, win, OS X
17:44:21 <sarob> And tablets
17:44:24 <rluethi> Linux and OS X should be no problem.
17:44:42 <sarob> The common thread is browser
17:44:44 <dguitarbite> sarob: tablets might be a challenge
17:44:47 <rluethi> tablet users can use them to read the install-guide :)
17:44:56 <dguitarbite> rluethi: hehe :D
17:45:17 <sarob> If we can build clusters through scripts
17:45:26 <sarob> And get copies of them
17:45:33 <sarob> On public cloud
17:45:45 <sarob> That's makes success
17:45:55 <dguitarbite> sarob: that was the spec roger has pushed as of now
17:45:58 <sarob> For anyone that shows up
17:46:04 <rluethi> The main problem seems to be that we can't get all the OpenStack networking magic nested.
17:46:13 <sarob> Yup
17:46:24 <sarob> And I love him for it
17:46:53 <rluethi> That's pretty much a hard limit. Only way out is all-in-one. I tried to describe the issues in the spec.
17:47:09 <sarob> I like what i read
17:47:35 <sarob> If we spin all our goals back to enabling trainjng
17:47:37 <dguitarbite> sarob: rluethi lets ship it for the time being, depending on the cloud we could write the init scripts to run the osbash scripts and get a multi-node cluster running
17:47:51 <dguitarbite> s/cloud/public cloud/
17:47:54 <sarob> Our priorities are clearer
17:48:33 <rluethi> dguitarbite: let's talk about that later.
17:48:37 <sarob> I will chk with annegentle on docs-specs use today
17:48:39 <dguitarbite> rluethi: yes
17:49:25 <matjazp> are labs working now as they should?
17:49:29 <sarob> Then we can get a few more reviews on the patch and merge it to docs-specs kilo
17:49:58 <rluethi> matjazp: you tell me, you are testing them with your students.
17:50:15 <dguitarbite> rluethi: roger that
17:50:16 <matjazp> rluethi: as of now, we're still at devstack phase
17:50:40 <dguitarbite> matjazp: they are ready, there is a small issue and we have a work around for that
17:50:48 <rluethi> matjazp: to the best of my knowledge, the scripts are pretty solid now.
17:50:58 <matjazp> all-in-one
17:51:25 <rluethi> matjazp: ?
17:51:44 <matjazp> rluethi: devstack all in one
17:52:00 <rluethi> matjazp: I see.
17:52:21 <matjazp> dguitarbite: what issue?
17:52:48 <dguitarbite> matjazp: you just need to restart nova-compute service on compute node sometimes it is not running
17:53:00 <dguitarbite> rluethi: pushed a patch to fix that, hopefully it should work now
17:53:15 <rluethi> dguitarbite, matjazp: yeah, that should be fixed.
17:53:20 <matjazp> ok, that's not a biggie
17:53:42 <rluethi> nova-compute goes XXX for a couple of minutes after a controller reboot, but I think that's how OpenStack works.
17:53:44 <dguitarbite> matjazp: yes, sorry for that ... just a minor issue which is probably fixed
17:55:01 <rluethi> matjazp: the test script on gerrit gives you a good idea of some of the things that can go wrong and how to diagnose and fix them.
17:55:24 <rluethi> matjazp: awful code, though, sorry.
17:55:38 <dguitarbite> time check 5 mins remaining
17:55:41 <sayali> it works really well
17:55:59 <matjazp> rluethi: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131689/ ?
17:56:28 <rluethi> matjazp: that's the one.
17:56:41 <matjazp> rluethi: ok
17:57:38 <dguitarbite> matjazp: it works fine, the code is a bit ugly but it does the job well
17:58:23 <sarob> I'm writing a ml on the priorities for associates training in sfbay user group
17:58:35 <dguitarbite> sarob: what is the start date?
17:58:43 <sarob> Last thurs
17:58:48 <dguitarbite> ok
17:59:13 <sarob> It should help with the team priorities
17:59:23 <sarob> I'm asking reed to do the same
17:59:24 <ShillaSaebi> ok guys i have to sign off, have a hard stop at 1, have a good day
17:59:31 <sarob> Me too
17:59:35 <sarob> Cheers
17:59:39 <dguitarbite> see ya, times up
17:59:40 <matjazp> bye all
17:59:41 <ShillaSaebi> see ya
17:59:42 <MeganR> Have a good week!
17:59:42 <rluethi> bye
17:59:47 <sayali> bye:)
17:59:47 <dguitarbite> sayali: roger lets meet on docs IRC channel
17:59:53 <rluethi> dguitarbite: k
17:59:58 <dguitarbite> to schedule the meeting
18:00:03 <dguitarbite> bye everyoen
18:00:07 <sarob> #endmeeting