14:00:04 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals
14:00:05 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Oct  8 14:00:04 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:06 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00:08 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'
14:00:33 <sarob> i have been a bit disconnected this last couple of weeks
14:00:41 <sarob> i have no agenda
14:01:14 <sarob> i almost have the pandoc python wrap script done though
14:01:21 <alagalah> Excellent, I was going to ask
14:02:03 <alagalah> I just did a pull, I see tools/validate.py
14:02:09 <sarob> it clones repos, pulls updates, converts, and then some extra cleanup
14:02:15 <colinmcnamara> colin here
14:02:25 <sarob> validate.py is the gate script
14:02:35 <colinmcnamara> sorry about being late. still getting started
14:02:43 <sarob> no prob
14:02:48 <alagalah> Hi Colin
14:02:53 <sarob> i forgot to post an agenda
14:02:56 <sarob> :(
14:02:59 <colinmcnamara> Good morning Keith
14:03:31 <colinmcnamara> proposed topics
14:03:31 <alagalah> So is the training-labs/Scripts stuff for VirtualBox deployment?>
14:03:35 <colinmcnamara> Progress
14:03:35 <colinmcnamara> Blocking Items
14:03:35 <colinmcnamara> Focus work for next week
14:03:37 <colinmcnamara> xml include location
14:03:39 <colinmcnamara> including non xml content
14:03:39 <sarob> i was just babbling about the rst convert script
14:03:52 <sarob> right
14:03:59 <sarob> #topic progress
14:04:17 <colinmcnamara> let me pull the burndown board real quick
14:04:20 <sarob> speak to me oh oracle of the kanban
14:04:55 <colinmcnamara> Total Cards: 	137
14:04:55 <colinmcnamara> Remaining Cards: 	74
14:04:55 <colinmcnamara> Done Cards: 	63
14:04:57 <colinmcnamara> Percent of cards done: 	45.99%
14:04:59 <colinmcnamara> Hours at start: 	80
14:05:01 <colinmcnamara> Hours est total: 	137
14:05:03 <colinmcnamara> Hours remaining: 	74
14:05:05 <colinmcnamara> Hours done: 	63
14:05:07 <colinmcnamara> Percent of hours done: 	45.99%
14:05:09 <colinmcnamara> ----	----
14:05:11 <colinmcnamara> Days Elapsed 	37
14:05:13 <colinmcnamara> Daily Burndown 	1.7
14:05:15 <colinmcnamara> Est. Days Left 	43
14:05:17 <colinmcnamara> Est. Completion Date 	11/20/13
14:05:21 <colinmcnamara> so, compared to last week
14:05:23 <colinmcnamara> last week we had 60 cards done
14:05:29 <colinmcnamara> this week we have 63 cards done
14:05:37 <sarob> poop
14:05:40 <colinmcnamara> though I don't think that pranav's scripts were tracked in a card
14:05:51 <colinmcnamara> big thing is, we added two cars
14:05:52 <colinmcnamara> cards
14:06:00 <colinmcnamara> https://BurndownForTrello.com/share/9c3rfd2fu9 - chart
14:06:15 <colinmcnamara> so, our estimated completion date pushed
14:06:16 <sarob> ohhh
14:06:24 <sarob> pretty
14:06:35 <sarob> im less bummed now
14:06:44 <dguitarbite> hi
14:06:50 <colinmcnamara> basically pushed out a week or two
14:06:51 <sarob> hey pranav
14:06:56 <colinmcnamara> hello pranav
14:07:01 <dguitarbite> hey guys
14:07:10 <colinmcnamara> we want the blue line going down, and the red line going up
14:07:26 <colinmcnamara> ideally matching the slope of the yellow line
14:07:54 <colinmcnamara> our daily burndown rate is still ok at 1.7
14:08:07 <sarob> we need to double check our story at this point
14:08:15 <colinmcnamara> explain?
14:08:30 <sarob> what are we teaching associate or rather
14:08:47 <sarob> what will we be testing the assoc knowledge
14:09:03 <sarob> some of these cards could get pushed to operator
14:09:12 <colinmcnamara> could or should?
14:09:14 <sarob> or dev
14:09:20 <sarob> well im not sure
14:09:30 <colinmcnamara> I still think that mapping to the basic installation guide is just that
14:09:31 <colinmcnamara> basic
14:09:34 <sarob> i havent gone through the 'story'
14:09:40 <colinmcnamara> and if I was going to look at the over all progress
14:09:48 <colinmcnamara> the biggest limiter we have right now is concepts
14:09:57 <colinmcnamara> we are pretty much completely through the task items
14:10:00 <alagalah> Which is all RST right ?
14:10:04 <colinmcnamara> only a few of the horizon admin tasks remain
14:10:05 <colinmcnamara> correct
14:10:10 <colinmcnamara> the RST to XML translation
14:10:18 <colinmcnamara> we should probably switch topic
14:10:19 <colinmcnamara> to that
14:10:28 <colinmcnamara> I'd say that is the most critical item for this weeks work
14:10:34 <sarob> #topic rst xml convertion
14:10:42 <sarob> nice spelling
14:10:52 <colinmcnamara> close enough
14:10:55 <dguitarbite> beat me in spellings :O
14:11:08 <colinmcnamara> so, if we can't get the conversion working right now
14:11:20 <colinmcnamara> my vote, go ahead with manual inclusion of certain dev docs and diagrams
14:11:35 <colinmcnamara> with an xml note in the section pointing to the root content
14:11:45 <dguitarbite> I agree
14:11:47 <sarob> im very close to publishing the convertion script
14:12:03 <dguitarbite> although RST integration would have deeper impact on many other Maven based projects
14:12:20 <dguitarbite> sarob: is the code public ?
14:12:27 <colinmcnamara> my preference is to have a converter
14:12:35 <sarob> i havent pushed it yet
14:12:36 <colinmcnamara> how close are you sean? I wasn not able to solve the problem
14:12:45 <colinmcnamara> does it test locally?
14:12:47 <sarob> i will do it this morning
14:13:05 <colinmcnamara> k
14:13:07 <alagalah> If you push it, let me know and I'll have a crack at it on my end tonight
14:13:13 <colinmcnamara> same here
14:13:24 <sarob> im using reg expressions to match and mod content
14:13:53 <colinmcnamara> s/h1/section/g ?
14:13:56 <colinmcnamara> etc
14:13:56 <sarob> as long as the tags dont change we should be good
14:14:08 <colinmcnamara> is it grabbing the images too?
14:14:19 <sarob> s/article/section/g
14:14:48 <sarob> i havent gotten to images yet, but yes it shouldnt be a prob
14:14:51 <alagalah> Couldn't we leave the images alone with absolute reference? Or are we worried about RST content changing ?
14:15:22 <colinmcnamara> the asolute reference points to an external repo. probably best to pull them in in the gross import
14:15:55 <colinmcnamara> e.g. import Nova dev docs, Neutron Dev docs, Cinder Dev docs, etc all into a local directory in training guides
14:16:16 <colinmcnamara> make it easy for the other contributors
14:16:39 <alagalah> So pull in all the RST content locally into training-guides, convert to XML and relative reference to the images?
14:16:41 <sarob> the script clones and pulls updates
14:17:11 <sarob> so you want the cloned repos within our repo?
14:17:18 <sarob> for image ref
14:17:21 <dguitarbite> ?
14:17:28 <colinmcnamara> I think that would be best for now
14:17:29 <dguitarbite> are you talking about repo inside repo?
14:17:39 <colinmcnamara> not the full repos, but the dev docs directory
14:18:06 <sarob> i could add in coping the image directories and update the image tags
14:18:11 <sarob> instead
14:18:24 <dguitarbite> ahh ... I guess its better to get the images locally
14:18:41 <colinmcnamara> also, one other thing
14:18:54 <sarob> right now i have the repos all outside in the local repo root and only the xml in our repo
14:19:01 <alagalah> So clone the RST DevDocs into a temp repo, convert to XML into the training-guides and copy the images ?
14:19:09 <colinmcnamara> so, sean
14:19:16 <colinmcnamara> I agree with that statemtn
14:19:18 <sarob> thats what i was thinking
14:19:21 <colinmcnamara> only xml in our repo (xml and images)
14:19:24 <alagalah> Makes sense
14:19:26 <dguitarbite> we could reuse the images rather than make another copy
14:19:59 <sarob> the script will pull down updates, convert the rst to xml, copy the images
14:20:11 <dguitarbite> kool
14:20:22 <colinmcnamara> so, we can add that as a manual step in the repo
14:20:28 <sarob> ill have to figure out the image tag pattern matching, should be okay
14:20:29 <colinmcnamara> and then add it as a build step later
14:20:30 <ekarlso> why do people like xml over rst ? :|
14:20:34 <colinmcnamara> so, the tags
14:20:47 <dguitarbite> rst is not as powerful as XML
14:20:50 <colinmcnamara> remember anne talked about about tagging images and tables with section id's
14:20:56 <ekarlso> ok
14:21:19 <sarob> hmm, could do it
14:21:32 <sarob> make the code a bit more complicated
14:21:41 <dguitarbite> analogous to difference between JavaScript and Java
14:21:41 <colinmcnamara> well, push the first push
14:21:54 <sarob> prob need another card for that feature
14:21:59 <sarob> but a good idea
14:22:11 <dguitarbite> sarob we can do that feature in the next iteration
14:22:15 <colinmcnamara> just thinking forward to generating the presenter led content
14:22:18 <sarob> yeah
14:22:21 <colinmcnamara> so, if we have that conversion done
14:22:24 <colinmcnamara> tool done
14:22:25 <dguitarbite> it will be simple hack to get the section ids into place
14:22:28 <alagalah> Sarob: you just using regex or the docutils library ?
14:22:29 <colinmcnamara> then that removes a huge block
14:22:39 <sarob> python regex
14:22:45 <alagalah> Did you look at docutils ?
14:22:50 <sarob> nope
14:22:52 <alagalah> ok
14:23:30 <colinmcnamara> docutils has some interesting stuff, but not a rst2docbooks
14:23:54 <colinmcnamara> there is a rst2xml.py script though
14:23:57 <alagalah> But you should be able to parse out the RST tags and replace with XML if you find your RegEx fails, regardless was just curious
14:24:38 <dguitarbite> alagalah it needs some rigorous testing then
14:24:49 <sarob> the rst2xml.py script is where?
14:25:12 <alagalah> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/tools/rst2xml.py
14:25:24 <colinmcnamara> sudo port install docutils
14:25:31 <sarob> cool, prob has the pattern matching i need to add
14:25:34 <sarob> thx
14:26:40 <sarob> #topic blockers
14:26:54 <alagalah> Card#114 ... still relevant?
14:26:59 <alagalah> (blockers)
14:27:26 <colinmcnamara> that can be moved to done
14:27:41 <alagalah> Ok who did it so I can re-assign?
14:28:21 <sarob> i could update the script as well
14:28:56 <sarob> anything else?
14:29:19 <colinmcnamara> let me check my notes
14:29:42 <sarob> i guess the rst to xml conversion script is a blocker
14:29:51 <colinmcnamara> I'd say that is the only blocking item
14:30:20 <colinmcnamara> next topic?
14:30:33 <sarob> #topic next week focus
14:31:08 <sarob> id like to start on the quiz and test formatting
14:31:10 <colinmcnamara> so, think we should try to get all the task oriented cards completed so we can chek for flow
14:31:26 <colinmcnamara> sean, sanity check
14:31:31 <sarob> that sounds good too
14:31:34 <alagalah> If the script works tonight I'll grab some more cards that require RST
14:31:40 <sarob> cool
14:31:47 <colinmcnamara> shouldn't the quiz come from the concepts and tasks?
14:32:08 <sarob> yup, but im talkin format
14:32:11 <sarob> not content
14:32:29 <colinmcnamara> maybe we can get Rev to throw some idea's together
14:32:36 <colinmcnamara> i know he does that for a living right?
14:32:59 <alagalah> front end surveymonkey.com ?
14:33:24 <colinmcnamara> remember, online, printed pdf, instructor led
14:33:33 <colinmcnamara> probably best to just go old school
14:33:40 <colinmcnamara> list of questions, answer key seperate
14:33:50 <colinmcnamara> out of that people can derive the testing engines
14:34:11 <sarob> sounds like a good idea to start
14:34:11 <dguitarbite> yep
14:34:23 <colinmcnamara> and I would guess that since the foundation is managing the cert program, that someone puts a quiz engine tied to openID on openstack.org
14:34:23 <sarob> just expand the tables there now
14:34:26 <dguitarbite> we do not need to host a testing engine or system
14:34:28 <dguitarbite> just the content
14:34:43 <sarob> ah, that sounds good
14:34:59 <sarob> okay solution found
14:35:10 <colinmcnamara> old school :)
14:35:23 <dguitarbite> old school :)
14:35:26 <sarob> so whats xml include location topic?
14:35:44 <colinmcnamara> oh, I pulled from last weeks
14:35:48 <sarob> convertion script output dir?
14:35:49 <colinmcnamara> probably can ignore that
14:36:06 <colinmcnamara> just wanted to get the meeting going in an orderly fashion ;)
14:36:13 <sarob> roger roger
14:36:28 <sarob> so anything else troops?
14:36:34 <colinmcnamara> yeah
14:37:13 <colinmcnamara> I popped the google hangout into imovie and created a how to contribute to openstack-training videio http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qz5NrbFfRi8
14:37:24 <dguitarbite> nice
14:37:45 <sarob> sweet
14:37:49 <dguitarbite> how does youtube let you host 2 hour long videos?
14:38:00 <colinmcnamara> you have to have a verified account
14:38:08 <dguitarbite> ok
14:38:13 <colinmcnamara> and then go into settings and request extended access
14:38:29 <colinmcnamara> the hangout+live ended up there automatically
14:38:47 <dguitarbite> alrite thanks
14:39:03 <colinmcnamara> I then downloaded the hangout live locally, edited it to focus on content and then pushed it up after work yesterday
14:39:34 <sarob> master of the video art
14:39:35 <alagalah> I've written a gdoc with step by step too for my own use. Not as good as the video, but if someone just wanted a quick prompt cheat sheet
14:39:45 <colinmcnamara> awesome
14:39:56 <colinmcnamara> let's all get that information out into the wild
14:40:03 <sarob> sounds like a great add to the user group howto
14:40:06 <alagalah> Yeah I'll tighten it up and perhaps put it on the wiki
14:40:10 <colinmcnamara> the biggest challenge we have is increasing the number of video's
14:40:13 <colinmcnamara> err not video's
14:40:17 <colinmcnamara> contributors
14:40:24 <dguitarbite> lol
14:40:29 <alagalah> What happened to other Meetups contributing ?
14:40:42 <sarob> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStackUserGroups/HowTo
14:40:47 <alagalah> (apart from all the awesomeness that is Aptira)
14:40:53 <colinmcnamara> welcome to OpenSource and User Groups
14:40:54 <sarob> baby steps
14:41:09 <colinmcnamara> basically have to hit critical mass, then everybody says they want to participate
14:41:10 <dguitarbite> yeah
14:41:12 <alagalah> No worries, just asking
14:41:20 <colinmcnamara> as you can see, this is actual work
14:41:30 <colinmcnamara> it is hard actual work
14:41:32 <alagalah> Sarob: want me to amend the wiki ?
14:41:40 <alagalah> (from that link) ?
14:41:42 <sarob> amend away
14:41:47 <sarob> yup
14:41:47 <colinmcnamara> oh, I have one more topic
14:41:52 <dguitarbite> its very hard to get people
14:41:59 <alagalah> Is there a howto amend the howto :-P
14:42:12 <alagalah> I'll unicast you, Sean
14:42:12 <colinmcnamara> click the edit button on the wiki
14:42:14 <dguitarbite> yea also need to change the IRC meeting timing on Wiki .. ill do it
14:42:16 <sarob> its moinmoin wiki
14:42:25 <sarob> thx
14:42:34 <colinmcnamara> so, another proposed topic - whitespace checks
14:42:49 <sarob> just log into the wiki and select edit from the top of page
14:43:04 <alagalah> ack got it now
14:43:08 <sarob> anyone can edit any page on wiki.openstack.org
14:43:19 <sarob> #topic whitespace checks
14:43:44 <colinmcnamara> so, you may have noticed a non-voting stage in jenkins now
14:43:47 <colinmcnamara> called niceness
14:43:59 <colinmcnamara> it checks for whitespace and empty lines
14:44:10 <sarob> i never claimed to be nice
14:44:15 <colinmcnamara> you will get a -1 one, that won't stop a build
14:44:35 <colinmcnamara> it caught some white space in the user-includes template as well as my section files
14:44:41 <colinmcnamara> that I went and fixed
14:44:48 <sarob> cool, thx
14:44:54 <colinmcnamara> I ended up pushing a few patches for mycommit
14:45:03 <colinmcnamara> I didn't however go back through the other cards and clean them up
14:45:15 <dguitarbite> please confirm IRC meeting on Tues at 14:00 UTC
14:45:29 <dguitarbite> Im bad with time ... so need to verify
14:45:39 <sarob> yeah 1400 utc
14:45:43 <sarob> tuesday
14:45:44 <dguitarbite> k thansk
14:45:54 <colinmcnamara> I propose that as reviewers we treat the niceneness check as a strict check, and push back (unless it is timely) and request a 2nd patch to fix whitspace issues
14:45:58 <alagalah> Why the polgrom on whitespace?
14:46:17 <alagalah> Does having it break something?
14:46:24 <colinmcnamara> coding standards in the project
14:46:35 <alagalah> Hmmmm interesting. Fair enough then.
14:47:03 <colinmcnamara> and whenever possibly I would like us to confirm to the larger coding standards and methodologies of OpenStack as a whole
14:47:13 <colinmcnamara> it was a simple change on my end to fix it. took 5 minutes
14:47:22 <colinmcnamara> I had a couple tabs and a blank line
14:47:30 <alagalah> Well yeah, of course. Seems like an odd standard since whitespace increases code readability but greater minds than I have determined it's evil so we should comply
14:48:07 <sarob> your compliance is noted
14:48:31 <sarob> anything else guys?
14:48:33 <alagalah> I live to serve
14:48:35 <colinmcnamara> spaces and tabs at the end of lines don't make anything easier to read
14:48:36 <colinmcnamara> ;)
14:48:41 <colinmcnamara> either way, wanted to discuss is
14:48:42 <colinmcnamara> it
14:48:43 <alagalah> Ah
14:48:54 <colinmcnamara> before pushing back on reviews
14:48:59 <colinmcnamara> well, other then my own
14:49:00 <alagalah> Ack ...
14:49:00 <sarob> what                        do                             mean?
14:49:10 <alagalah> Do we need to redo existing cards?
14:49:12 <dguitarbite> white spaces are bad for compiles have to read them
14:49:18 <dguitarbite> it reduces load on the infra
14:49:43 <colinmcnamara> good point pranav
14:49:52 <sarob> validate.py wont check already merged xml
14:50:16 <alagalah> python :)
14:50:28 <colinmcnamara> my vote is not to go back and clean stuff up whitespace yet. Just to be a bit more rigorous moving forward
14:50:30 <alagalah> Not. Compiled. :)
14:50:33 <alagalah> hehehehe
14:50:38 <alagalah> Got it
14:50:47 <dguitarbite> hey guys
14:50:56 <dguitarbite> lets keep the white spaces as low hanging friuts
14:51:03 <dguitarbite> *fruits
14:51:10 <alagalah> You mean for new contributors? Great idea
14:51:13 <sarob> sounds about right
14:51:16 <dguitarbite> yes
14:51:17 <colinmcnamara> good idea
14:51:20 <dguitarbite> saves us some manual task
14:51:22 <colinmcnamara> great idea pranav
14:51:35 <colinmcnamara> have them log a bug for whitespace in files
14:51:38 <colinmcnamara> and then clean it
14:51:42 <dguitarbite> yep
14:52:19 <sarob> #info whitespace and orphaned tabs to be logged as bug
14:52:49 <alagalah> Hmmmm, I've never logged/resolved a bug so I may take one to fix to understand that process if thats ok?
14:52:50 <sarob> #action sarob push convert rst xml scrpit today
14:53:14 <sarob> alagalah: happy to help
14:53:28 <sarob> instructions are in the operators guide
14:53:35 <alagalah> ack
14:53:39 <alagalah> thank you
14:53:48 <sarob> anything else?
14:54:09 <colinmcnamara> i'm good
14:54:28 <sarob> pranav?
14:54:39 <dguitarbite> we need to discuss the course syllabus once
14:54:42 <dguitarbite> during the summit
14:54:53 <sarob> sure
14:55:13 <colinmcnamara> agreed
14:55:13 <dguitarbite> and I may have some feedback based on actual teaching
14:55:16 <dguitarbite> in India
14:55:17 <sarob> i think we should reaccess the syllabus for all four books
14:55:23 <sarob> sweet
14:55:25 <dguitarbite> hopefully before the summit \m/
14:55:37 <alagalah> re-assess
14:55:40 <sarob> super critical to have teaching feedback
14:55:42 <alagalah> Mr SpellCheck
14:55:58 <alagalah> :-P
14:56:01 <dguitarbite> :D
14:56:37 <sarob> #action review books syllabus at summit
14:56:57 <colinmcnamara> agree on getting feedback from a delivered class
14:57:19 <dguitarbite> yes, very important to know how good is the content delivery
14:57:23 <alagalah> Just for cross-reference...
14:57:33 <sarob> we should setup a monkey survey and add link to the cource
14:57:36 <sarob> couse
14:57:39 <sarob> arrgg
14:57:57 <alagalah> #vBrownBag has a Couch to OpenStack series (#C2OS) I'm going to go through: http://openstack.prov12n.com/about-couch-to-openstack/
14:58:04 <dguitarbite> yep, even something similar in kong to know what other experts say abotu it
14:58:09 <alagalah> It may serve as a sanity check
14:58:22 <sarob> which what?
14:58:52 <colinmcnamara> that's cody's series
14:58:56 <alagalah> yes
14:59:01 <colinmcnamara> he's been hovering around our project
14:59:04 <colinmcnamara> but, to be direct
14:59:16 <colinmcnamara> it kinda competes with the books he has been releasing
14:59:21 <colinmcnamara> so I don't expect much participation
14:59:24 <colinmcnamara> until we hit critical mass
14:59:33 <colinmcnamara> that is a common theme by the way
14:59:59 <colinmcnamara> people keep focusing on putting out single release content
15:00:11 <sarob> yup
15:00:12 <colinmcnamara> that ends up full of bugs, and dated within 6 months
15:00:21 <colinmcnamara> but, their name is on it
15:00:31 <colinmcnamara> vs treating training and learning as open source
15:00:43 <dguitarbite> we are on an iterative model, tracked and stuff ... lets just hope they contribute to the official docs eventually
15:00:49 <colinmcnamara> they will
15:00:52 <colinmcnamara> my bet
15:00:53 <colinmcnamara> is
15:01:02 <colinmcnamara> when the course get out and are being delivered in the larger community
15:01:03 <sarob> they will all come over to the dark side
15:01:06 <colinmcnamara> yup
15:01:11 <colinmcnamara> that will be the critical mass
15:01:13 <colinmcnamara> and
15:01:22 <colinmcnamara> if and when the foundation figures out the cert program
15:01:33 <colinmcnamara> my assumption is that it will be based of this content
15:01:40 <colinmcnamara> or at minimum alighned
15:01:45 <colinmcnamara> then again, more people will jump on
15:02:12 <sarob> ive got a hard stop
15:02:25 <sarob> anymore training biz
15:02:31 <alagalah> I'm good
15:02:34 <colinmcnamara> I'm good
15:02:36 <dguitarbite> im good
15:02:41 <dguitarbite> wrap up ?
15:02:49 <sarob> sweet, thx for the great meet guys
15:02:55 <sarob> see ya in the funny papers
15:02:57 <dguitarbite> thanks all
15:03:05 <sarob> #endmeeting