17:03:37 <sarob> #startmeeting training-manuals
17:03:38 <openstack> Meeting started Mon May  5 17:03:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:03:39 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
17:03:41 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals'
17:03:45 <sarob> Roll call
17:03:54 <matjazp> hi
17:03:58 <sarob> Hey
17:04:01 <rl> sup
17:05:09 <sarob> Dguitarbite with us?
17:05:19 <sarob> Colinmcnamara?
17:05:33 <sarob> Marco
17:06:08 <sarob> Hmm, okay
17:06:18 <sarob> How is it going guys?
17:06:41 <matjazp> been busy last two weeks..
17:06:50 <matjazp> I see that
17:07:02 <matjazp> some activity in Trello Board
17:07:21 <sarob> Dguitarbite has started up
17:07:26 <sarob> Some work
17:08:14 <matjazp> regarding Moodle integration: I'll just go ahead and extend Moodle's OAuth2 plugin... we're stalled for too long
17:09:06 <sarob> Okay
17:10:00 <rl> I have the install script that doesn't rely on vagrant working. Some challenges remain.
17:10:10 <sarob> Matt rice from LPI has offered to help us on testing
17:10:26 <sarob> rl excellent
17:10:40 <rl> Problems remain mostly in installation itself.
17:10:43 <sarob> Rl good enough to patch?
17:10:52 <matjazp> rl: why dump vagrant?
17:11:26 <rl> matjazp, not dumping, just an alternative. a pretty much empty placeholder was already there.
17:12:09 <sarob> Rick Evans was thinking we should just build VMs and post them
17:12:18 <rl> there are pros and cons: the bash script starts from ISO, and uses multiattach disks to save space
17:12:20 <sarob> And the same for the build
17:12:43 <sarob> Environment
17:12:54 <rl> the main problem are the installation instructions, they have issues.
17:13:03 <matjazp> rl: aha, ok. I find vagrant quite useful tool, so trainees should learn about it. I introduce it to my students, their feedbac is usualy positive
17:13:20 <sarob> The problems we usually have
17:13:22 <rl> matjazp,  vagrant is awesome.
17:13:32 <sarob> Are with limited time
17:14:12 <sarob> We should set up the tools
17:14:16 <rl> sarob, my goal is to have the script build its own "base box" (preinstall done) that can be reused
17:14:37 <sarob> Okay I get it
17:14:56 <rl> but vagrant will remain
17:14:59 <sarob> If we can script it and leave it for awhile
17:15:02 <sarob> I'm cool
17:15:07 <rl> both methods can and should be supported
17:15:21 <matjazp> sarob: well, premade images are nice, but installation of OpenStack is still pretty hard for novices so they should learn it. Maybe not at all levels, but upper levels for sure
17:15:45 <rl> sarob: where would you host images?
17:15:51 <sarob> Learning install is the operator guide
17:16:01 <sarob> We need to
17:16:13 <sarob> Control how it's taught
17:16:19 <sarob> So timing works
17:16:21 <rl> sarob: that may be a lot of bandwidth
17:16:29 <sarob> True
17:16:51 <matjazp> rl: how much bandwith are we expectiong?
17:17:25 <rl> matjazp: a VM will probably be one or two GB
17:17:39 <rl> matjazp: depends on how people download/mirror it
17:18:04 <matjazp> rl: I could ask our University's "ISP" (Arnes.si) to host it on ther FTP/HTTP... They already host other mirrors (Ubuntu, etc)
17:18:21 <rl> matjazp: that would be great
17:19:09 <rl> which installation instructions should the scripts follow? there are quite a few now.
17:19:12 <matjazp> rl: ok. So we want to host OpenStack Training guide pre-built images, right?
17:19:16 <rl> in traininglabs and elsewhere.
17:19:53 <rl> matjazp: it would certainly be a nice (time-saving) addition
17:20:17 <matjazp> rl: agree. I'm writting en email as we speak
17:20:53 <rl> oh, and most instructions are for icehouse, but I understand some would prefer training-labs stick with havana for the time being. is that correct?
17:21:44 <sarob> Infra
17:21:59 <sarob> Active guides
17:22:06 <sarob> Backport guides
17:22:47 <sarob> Infra would focus on trainer tools and test tools
17:23:19 <sarob> Active would work on the most recent book like developer
17:23:28 <matjazp> maybe we should "support" current version + one before that
17:23:53 <sarob> Backport would work existing books
17:24:11 <sarob> Matjazp what do you mean?
17:24:48 <sarob> Matjazp current version of Openstack?
17:25:00 <matjazp> sarob: yes
17:25:27 <matjazp> sarob: supporting many versions is a lot of work
17:25:32 <sarob> We could always branch the previous release
17:25:58 <rl> sarob, matjazp: can someone send me a link to the guide they would like the install script to follow?
17:26:34 <rl> or post the link right here for the protocol
17:27:23 <sarob> #link docs.openstack.org/training-guides
17:27:32 <sarob> Different than that?
17:28:08 <matjazp> sarob: what about supporting support in the guides for current, not yet stable version? I found it goot to show students/trainees how they can install current devstack and check where OpenStack progress is heading
17:29:24 <sarob> Matjazp I'm good with that
17:30:04 <sarob> Matjazp we will need to start focused sprints towards the end of the release cycle
17:30:07 <rl> sarob: I was hoping for a page, not a manual
17:31:02 <matjazp> sarob: yes, and it isn't helping that OpenStack has two releases per year ;)
17:32:29 <matjazp> rl: you mean you need pages where installation is described?
17:33:26 <rl> matjazp: I'd like to know which one to follow. training-guides "building the training cluster" offers no help in this regard.
17:33:39 <sarob> rl http://docs.openstack.org/training-guides/content/operator-controller-node-lab.html
17:34:21 <sarob> The labs are meant to rebuild the same enviro as the trainer cluster
17:34:28 <rl> sarob, that one's broken. but I'll start from there.
17:34:42 <sarob> Okay
17:35:52 <sarob> Matjazp we need to get into the the cycle of book update sprint at the end of the release cycle
17:36:09 <sarob> Follow docs team
17:36:24 <matjazp> sarob: ok.
17:37:06 <matjazp> I just got an answer from Arnes, they need details, but they also see no problems with hosting images
17:37:09 <sarob> #info new sub-groups infra, active, backport, test questions
17:37:23 <rl> matjazp, sounds great.
17:37:23 <matjazp> Arnes has very good uplink
17:37:48 <sarob> Anyway we can make the training events
17:37:58 <sarob> Run smoothly
17:38:08 <sarob> So Openstack can be taught
17:38:48 <sarob> Other stuff needs to be learned but on their own time
17:39:07 <sarob> Cause we only have limited days
17:39:22 <matjazp> sarob: when do docs team do their sprints? just before release? two weeks before?
17:39:56 <sarob> They are cleaning up bugs now
17:40:23 <sarob> Same as dev teams
17:41:40 <sarob> Matjazp I will point the LPI guy in your direction
17:42:00 <sarob> Matjazp you let know if LPI can help us?
17:42:29 <matjazp> rl: regarding images... you plan on using a tool like packer? If we publish json templates, ppl can build images for themselves. But we can host them at Arnes anyway
17:42:35 <sarob> Dguitarbite join us
17:42:37 <sarob> ?
17:43:25 <sarob> Matjazp I'm good using any tool that will make it simple
17:43:38 <rl> matjazp,  I looked at packer, but no plans so far. Right now, I am just implementing what's already there. Install via bash, install via vagrant.
17:43:41 <sarob> Ubuntu support right now
17:43:58 <sarob> Think a bit about supporting RHEL and others
17:44:18 <sarob> As I get Redhat and hp more involved
17:44:43 <rl> I guess it would have to be CentOS.
17:44:51 <rl> I don't think we can host RHEL images
17:44:56 <sarob> #topic more team members
17:45:07 <matjazp> sarob: packer or veewee makes it repeatable and configurable... and you can make images for different hypervisors
17:45:24 <sarob> I'm good with that for sure
17:45:50 <sarob> I'm working getting a few of the training devs from hp
17:45:56 <sarob> Involved
17:46:10 <matjazp> sarob: will look into it... I hope we can automate some stuff... couse for now, I spent WAY too much time teaching students how to install openstack and all run different configurations in virtualized environments
17:46:11 <sarob> They work on their own right now
17:46:46 <sarob> Matjazp I hear you. That's exactly what I want to cut out
17:46:53 <rl> matjazp, you sound like you would like to be my beta tester.
17:47:21 <matjazp> rl: hehee.. sure.
17:47:26 <sarob> Sweet
17:48:03 <sarob> Y'all update a trello card for the team update
17:48:25 <sarob> Between redhat and hp
17:48:45 <sarob> They have few people that create their training
17:48:53 <sarob> Materials on their own
17:49:17 <sarob> I'm working on making them part of our collaboration
17:49:39 <matjazp> sarob: can you get licenses for RHEL? We can use Cenots for sure, but if they want us to use RHEL, they would have to come up with a solution regarding licenses.. maybe beta licenses? rhel 7 ?
17:49:52 <sarob> Centos prob
17:50:02 <sarob> The right option defn
17:50:31 <sarob> Redhat guys may want to create rhel for customers
17:50:46 <sarob> We will let the Redhat guys work that out
17:50:58 <sarob> We focus on ubuntu for now
17:51:23 <rl> sarob Still 12.04 LTS, right?
17:51:50 <sarob> rl I think so unless you want to jump up
17:52:14 <sarob> 14.04 has good reviews right?
17:52:46 <matjazp> sarob: I tried 14.04 with devstack.. works like a charm
17:52:57 <rl> sarob: I was considering it because 12.04 has some nasty issues, but I worked around most and 14.04 may be worse.
17:53:21 <sarob> rl you are building it. Your choice.
17:53:25 <matjazp> sarob: I'm using it for our "internal disposable" OpenStack :)
17:53:40 <rl> I want it to be useful to those who use it.
17:53:56 <sarob> It for learning openstack
17:54:10 <sarob> Not being the latest and greatest
17:54:35 <sarob> OS shouldn't be a critical part of training
17:54:37 <rl> I'll stay with 12.04 for now. We can always branch off when we know how it worked out (good or bad).
17:54:40 <matjazp> sarob: I think majority of blog posts and internet guides are for 12.04.. So maybe we sould stick with it for a while?
17:54:56 <matjazp> rl: sounds right
17:55:21 <rl> matjazp, Also, I hope my code won't need to change too much for different distros.
17:55:28 <sarob> #info sarob working on hp and redhat to join the training team
17:55:48 <sarob> #topic AOB
17:55:56 <sarob> Any other business?
17:56:02 <matjazp> nope
17:56:10 * rl won't be here next monday
17:56:19 <sarob> Me either
17:56:57 <matjazp> ok.. gotta go.. see ya all
17:56:58 <sarob> #info next training manuals meeting is cancelled due to summit
17:57:06 <sarob> Cheers!
17:57:15 <rl> later
17:57:18 <sarob> #endmeeting