12:30:49 <spotz> #startmeeting UC
12:30:50 <openstack> Meeting started Tue Sep 24 12:30:49 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:30:51 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
12:30:53 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'uc'
12:30:54 <spotz> just time:)
12:31:05 <melsakhawy> Heey everyone
12:31:15 <melsakhawy> *-e
12:31:22 <jayahn> o/
12:31:26 <belmoreira> o/
12:31:51 <spotz> #chair spotz jayahn melsakhawy belmoreira studarus
12:31:52 <openstack> Current chairs: belmoreira jayahn melsakhawy spotz studarus
12:32:03 <spotz> #topic Roll Call
12:32:08 <spotz> just to make it official
12:32:36 <studarus> o/
12:32:38 <spotz> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uc
12:32:46 <spotz> Agenda link if needed
12:33:02 <spotz> aprice are you here?
12:33:17 <belmoreira> o/
12:33:21 <jayahn> o/
12:33:28 <melsakhawy> o/
12:33:31 <aprice> Yes
12:33:42 <aprice> o/
12:33:55 <aprice> In transit but can follow
12:33:56 <aprice> Along
12:34:52 <spotz> Do you want me to move user survey back?
12:35:13 <aprice> I can discuss when we get there
12:35:17 <aprice> Are we there now?
12:35:23 <spotz> I had it first:)
12:35:23 <aprice> Pulling up agenda
12:35:29 <aprice> Ah perfect
12:35:33 <aprice> Sure let's start there
12:35:35 <spotz> #topic User Survey
12:35:54 <aprice> So we did a preliminary review of the data and I can share our thoughts in an email
12:36:17 <aprice> jamesmcarthur sent the PTL and TC responses to the mailing list last week
12:36:54 <aprice> Instead of doing a longform report, we are actually planning to do a series of superuser articles looking at different insights
12:37:13 <aprice> A nice early metric that we are still confirming is that we had 30% first time survey takers
12:37:28 <aprice> So we are excited to look at those deployments more closely
12:37:52 <spotz> Nice
12:38:23 <aprice> jamesmcarthur is at ansiblefest this week and I'm at the openstack day in berlin
12:38:45 <aprice> So we are going to reconnect next week and can provide a larger update
12:39:10 <spotz> Ok thanks. Anyone have any questions for Allison before we move on?
12:40:08 <jayahn> no
12:40:12 <aprice> Feel free to email me if any come up
12:40:17 <spotz> #topic Laisons
12:41:30 <spotz> So at one point studarus sent out an email with a break down of different areas that we could support. I can't remember if it was in the middle of the special election or after So I said at some point:)
12:41:54 <studarus> let me dig it up...
12:42:20 <spotz> It was thought a division of resources was a good idea and we were mainly arguing abouot what to call them to be honest. I'm going with Laison as we use that with the upstream team
12:42:25 <spotz> thanks studarus
12:42:30 <studarus> Community Chair - user groups, ambassadors and regional events
12:42:30 <studarus> SIG/Focus Group Chair - tracks the SIGs and forums session
12:42:30 <studarus> Survey Chair?
12:42:59 <spotz> thought there were a few more let me look
12:43:34 <spotz> Oh yeah I guess when you get rid of chair and co-chair that looks right:)
12:44:07 <spotz> belmoreira: I believe you wanted too be the SiG chair continuing all the update work?
12:44:35 <belmoreira> i can take that
12:44:50 <jayahn> let me catch up what was discussed before I join here.
12:45:10 <studarus> and if people want to focus on something else, I think that would be fine
12:45:41 <jayahn> is it about each takes a specific area? rather than doing together?
12:45:53 <spotz> jayahn: There wasn't a whole lot, it was really a point of contact thing. I wa going to ask if based on your open discussion items you might want to be a laison for the other projects?:)
12:45:54 <studarus> jayahn - the idea is to have an area of focus where you can bring ideas to the committee
12:46:13 <jayahn> okay
12:47:03 <spotz> It really goes down to groups know who to reach out to and hopefully pairing UC members with areas of interest
12:47:30 <studarus> I'm good with doing some work around the user groups. I'd like to better define what qualifies a user group as an official group.
12:47:48 <jayahn> i need to study a bit more on the entire uc activity (coverage) before saying an area of focus. ;) however, I can do a quick start on what I can do now, then extend on the way
12:48:17 <spotz> studarus: Kinda figured that:)
12:48:37 <melsakhawy> Would outreach be part of community ?
12:48:49 <spotz> jayahn: Sounds good, if there's an area or areas you have more interest in let us know
12:49:24 <spotz> melsakhawy: Outreach as in Outreachy or Outreach as in bringing in new users?
12:49:31 <melsakhawy> I was thinking more of reaching out to bigger deployments/ new adopters and getting their input
12:49:48 <jayahn> spotz: thanks
12:50:06 <spotz> melsakhawy: I think that falls under the User Survey and OSF outreach which we are involved in when needed
12:50:14 <aprice> melsakhawy: that's something we could do with the user survey
12:50:22 <aprice> Ha what spotz said
12:50:27 <spotz> hehe
12:51:37 <spotz> The information from the User Survey is confidential and aprice will get NDAs to anyoone who needs them to look at the data, participate in those types of meetings, etc
12:51:52 <melsakhawy> yeah that's reasonable, I think I can assist with the survey liasion
12:52:01 <spotz> Ok sounds good
12:52:11 <aprice> Cool - you can work with me on that melsakhawy
12:52:26 <spotz> That went quicker then I thought:)
12:52:39 <melsakhawy> +1
12:52:43 <jayahn> I can start with being liaison between airship and uc, for now. I have been really interested in finding the way to minimize "barriers and pain" from Asia region (non-english speaking and different time zone).
12:53:45 <jayahn> but, i am not sure that can be the some scope of uc
12:54:40 <spotz> jayahn: Thoose are some things we've tried sorting out with the diversity WG. A lot of grooups do split meetings which have varying success
12:55:40 <spotz> And I think the new loooser Office Hours soome gruops are using are also an attempt too fix that
12:56:05 <spotz> #topic UC Size/Election
12:56:21 <spotz> To keep us mooving as we have 35 minutes left
12:56:26 <jayahn> yeap
12:58:04 <spotz> Before our elections we had some discussions about the continuing role of the UC, possibly melding into the TC with a few seats there, or leaving things alone. We kinda fell into the last as VW_ was on vacation and we honestly didn't have as many official meetings over the summer with a quorum
12:59:19 <studarus> what has the TC said?
12:59:30 <spotz> TC is currently reducing their numbers I think by 3 over time, with only 5 to begin with we of course can't do that. But with the lack of nominations and the need for the special election do we want to consider reducing to 3 seats, combining with the TC or again leave things alone
12:59:56 <spotz> studarus: We never talked to them I remember aprice mentioning that concept I believe
13:00:48 <melsakhawy> For the TC idea, i think we will need to maintain separate meetings/communication regardless since the mandate is different
13:00:55 <studarus> the benefit being it would be easier to get elections done?
13:01:02 <melsakhawy> I like the idea of sizing down
13:01:40 <melsakhawy> or relaxing the AUC status , spotz said it's now easier than before :) so you may not like that
13:01:47 <belmoreira> initially I was opposing to the idea to merge the UC with the TC
13:01:52 <spotz> I believe the intent was more focus related, I do agree we have different charters and that while it seems developer numbers are dropping (not sure they are), deployments doo seem to be going up
13:02:04 <belmoreira> currently I'm much in favor of that
13:02:27 <belmoreira> sizing down to 3 seats... looks a very small team
13:02:51 <spotz> belmoreira: UC was originally 3 people before they started having elected members
13:02:59 <studarus> would we get a diverse enough set of members with 3?
13:03:28 <jayahn> I need some time to think about the topic, did not have chance to look at this issue.
13:04:05 <spotz> I have my doubts just from the historical passing of knowledge bit. But to have an odd number we can oonly go down to 3 over time
13:04:54 <spotz> And keep in mind we don't need to change either. belmoreira I'm curioous can youo talk more on why you've changed yur mind?
13:04:54 <jayahn> so is it about difficulties to get people to join UC? or is it about UC roles being smaller?
13:05:52 <spotz> jayahn: Originally the second, now more the first. But I think if we come up with some good goals we might need 5 people:)
13:06:13 <aprice> Jayahn: I think a lot of it is around how there is less of a feedback gap between upstream and users especially as more users contribute upstream
13:06:35 <aprice> So like the other OSF projects, having one governance body may make things more efficient
13:06:44 <belmoreira> spotz considering the lack of nominations (TC and UC) made me realize that would be better for the community of we consolidate the different committees
13:08:13 <belmoreira> we should discuss this and pick up the UC goals again
13:08:21 <aprice> Yeah I think that's an indicator as well, but also looking at similarities of goals will help
13:08:31 <spotz> belmoreira: Makes sense
13:09:13 <spotz> I also sometimes think for UC folks don't know about their status or even aboout the elections. We had that one person buonce their nomination.
13:10:02 <studarus> we do need more communicate better to the public about becoming an AUC
13:10:08 <spotz> Ok so I'm going to put goals as our main agenda item for next week which can help us to decide what we want to work on going forward at least foor this release
13:10:16 <studarus> I tried to pull in several people only to find out they weren't AUC...
13:10:22 <jayahn> aprice: you mentioned other osf project. I don't think they really realized they should have a communication channel to represent more diverse body, rather than core groups contributing codes to the project.
13:10:26 <studarus> and they had been involved but just not in qualifying AUC ways
13:10:58 <aprice> maybe have a joint meeting with the TC and see what they think?
13:11:37 <spotz> Yeah I was thinking of touching base with JP, get his thoughts as well oon this. We can't make the decisioon just from oour end anyways
13:11:46 <aprice> jayahn: both zuul and kata are doing well with the technical governance also working directly with users
13:12:21 <jayahn> sorry, i should mention that it is my personal experience from airship involvement. :)
13:12:51 <spotz> aprice: How are their user base though? I know when we met with the projects at the last Denver PTG (stand alone) they didn't feel they really had a user base large enough to need division
13:12:53 <jayahn> had no intention to include kata, zuul, or starlingx
13:13:54 <jayahn> well, because of us (skt), there are some interests in Korea, lots of potential.
13:14:12 <aprice> Their user bases are starting to grow. I think that in that meeting there was just confusion but all of the projects are starting to discuss user surveys to leave
13:14:12 <aprice> O
13:14:20 <aprice> Learn more* not leave
13:14:39 <aprice> jayahn: ah that makes sense
13:15:32 <aprice> They're all definitely early but I think that addressing the feedback loop early will be key for all of them
13:15:55 <jayahn> however, if tc and wc in airship, represent big companies involved in the development. i feel like they need a way to get feedback from potential users.
13:16:10 <jayahn> especially from other part of world :)
13:16:26 <aprice> Agree
13:16:45 <jayahn> that is actually my agenda today :)
13:16:46 <aprice> I think that there are a lot of openstack learnings to lean on
13:17:14 <spotz> aprice: Are you doing separate project surveys or including them in the OpenStack one?
13:17:24 <jayahn> i personally think osf has done really great job on user involvement, personally better than LF
13:17:32 <aprice> spotz: separate
13:18:34 <melsakhawy> On the topic of UC goals,  I will go through the charter before next meeting to create a summary of the "documented" goals. It could serve as a start point for us to change/add goals
13:18:55 <jayahn> i want airship can learn from that. ;) get support from UC leveraging what is already here
13:19:33 <jayahn> sorry, i am a bit slow to write in English.. (especially in this real time conversation setting)
13:19:39 <spotz> Sounds good, the agenda item is already there melsakhawy. jayahn just keep in mind whil we can advise them, they have a different charter, governance, etc
13:19:52 <spotz> jayahn: I try to pause to give time:)
13:20:20 <spotz> And not just for you but for people who like to type large responses:)
13:20:25 <jayahn> spotz: i know. they know. so we want to have some idea exchange on what would be the best
13:21:16 <spotz> We can definitely mentor them, Even in the last 1+ years it could be some new people since our last offer
13:21:50 <jayahn> spotz: if you can think of some area of focus I can contribute on, please let me know. that will help me to navigate roles of UC I can contribute.
13:22:33 <spotz> We're at <10 minutes I'm going to move us to the next topic as I think we need to figure out our goals before we can move on with this issue or contact the TC
13:22:42 <spotz> #topic Open Discussion
13:23:33 <jayahn> it's me?
13:23:42 <spotz> jayahn: We can definitely find you an area of interest, and it could be as simple as ideas for reaching users in Asia as we're defiintely growing the user base there
13:23:54 <spotz> jayahn: Yep have anything else I know you started it a little
13:24:06 <jayahn> yeap, i already started.
13:24:37 <jayahn> I have involved openstack-helm and airship from early stage..
13:24:40 <spotz> Oh onw quick think while jayahn types, I've reached out to fungi to get the members updated for the governance-uc
13:25:01 <jayahn> recently, i talked with airship folks about extending toward more diverse body.
13:25:30 <jayahn> that makes me think there might be some collaboration point between UC and Airship.
13:26:25 <melsakhawy> spotz / aprice, we need to get this updated as well https://www.openstack.org/foundation/user-committee/
13:26:32 <spotz> We can definitely reach back out to Airship and StarlingX to see if they have questions and see if we can help. It soulds like Kata and Zuul are happy with their process
13:26:39 <jayahn> I will hear what Airship think this Wed, but I also want to hear what UC think on this
13:27:03 <spotz> melsakhawy: Jimmy said he was going to do that one last week:(
13:27:25 <melsakhawy> ah right , I will reach out to him directly then :)
13:28:10 <jayahn> that is all for now. i don't think this is one time topic, I just want to put that on agenda so that everyone can think something out
13:28:55 <spotz> jayahn: Well all we can do is offer to mentor, our charter and focus is different. If we did want to include other projects with seats in the UC we would need to look into that as it becomes a numbers game again with keeping things at odd numbers. But they are always welcome to come join our meetings and ask questions during Open Discussion
13:29:27 <jayahn> spotz: got it. thanks
13:29:43 <spotz> melsakhawy and jayahn - make sure your foundation Bios are good as that what will go there:)
13:29:55 <jayahn> ah.. okay
13:29:58 <melsakhawy> +1
13:30:02 <spotz> We have less then a minute, anything else?
13:30:33 <jayahn> nope
13:30:46 <studarus_> thanks!
13:30:49 <spotz> #endmeeting