14:30:30 <jcoufal> #startmeeting UX
14:30:31 <openstack> Meeting started Wed Jun 18 14:30:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jcoufal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:30:32 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:30:33 <adi__> hello all
14:30:36 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'ux'
14:30:38 <jcoufal> hi all
14:31:08 <lblanchard> hi all!
14:31:30 <adi__> hi liz, jarda and others
14:32:18 <jcoufal> I hope there is more of us
14:32:21 <Hrishi> Hi
14:32:46 <jackib> hi everyone
14:33:45 <jcoufal> I hope it's not the alternating time what prevents people from attending the meeting
14:33:59 <jackib> I did find it a little confusing :)
14:34:23 <jackib> since you have to count the wednesdays past the monday. but that could just be me
14:34:53 <adi__> jarda, we could start?
14:35:08 <jcoufal> if that would be problematic I think we should stick to Mondays only then
14:35:11 <jcoufal> let's start
14:35:16 <lblanchard> yeah…I was thinking it might get confusing if we have to skip a week to technically do 1st monday of the month…oh well!
14:35:20 <adi__> yes
14:35:36 <jcoufal> #topic StoryBoard for UX
14:36:04 <jcoufal> so I discussed with krotscheck and jblair
14:36:14 <adi__> okay
14:36:27 <jcoufal> it looks there are some issues to add a project into the StoryBoard which does not have a git repo
14:36:47 <jcoufal> and as long as we don't need one it doesn't make big sense to create one just for this purpose
14:36:53 <jcoufal> (infra team doesn't like it)
14:37:28 <adi__> so we continue with launchpad ?
14:37:41 <jcoufal> so there needs to go a patch to jeepyb which should allow us to do that
14:37:52 <jcoufal> so at the moment I suggest to stick with launchpad
14:38:01 <jcoufal> and we will move to storyboard once it is ready
14:38:11 <jackib> but there will be a future fix in storyboard?
14:38:15 <jackib> cool
14:38:21 <jcoufal> jackib: it should
14:38:29 <jcoufal> it will just take a bit longer then few days
14:38:39 <jcoufal> s/then/than
14:38:40 <krotscheck> Infra likes the idea of having UX in storyboard. They just don’t like having unused git repositories lying around.
14:38:58 <jcoufal> yeah, that's the biggest concern
14:39:08 <jcoufal> also naming of openstack-ux, but that's a minor issue
14:39:27 <krotscheck> So if you guys are content with keeping the status quo, then Launchpad is fine. This is OpenStack though, nothing will get done unless someone cares enough to do it themselves.
14:40:13 <jcoufal> krotscheck: I believe we really would like to jump to StoryBoard
14:40:33 <lblanchard> krotscheck: yes, I'm not content with LaunchPad :)
14:40:49 <jcoufal> I will keep track on it and talk to you krotscheck so that we can clarify all concerns
14:41:08 <krotscheck> I have no concerns - I just don’t know python well enough to do this for you guys.
14:41:26 <jcoufal> krotscheck: ah, I see, I will try to find someone who could help
14:41:32 <krotscheck> I’m sure there’s SOMEONE in this meeting willing to do it?
14:41:33 <krotscheck> https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/jeepyb/tree/jeepyb
14:42:40 * lblanchard has zero python knowledge…
14:42:48 <jcoufal> no volunteers yet :-/ but we will sort it out
14:42:50 <lblanchard> but maybe someone from the Horizon team could help us out?
14:42:52 <adi__> haha
14:43:17 <jcoufal> #topic Wireframes review tool and its progress
14:43:33 <jcoufal> adi__: this is your time :)
14:43:36 <adi__> yes
14:43:38 <adi__> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uxtools
14:44:00 <adi__> i am currently in the process of reviewing them - have seen 2 so far
14:44:29 <adi__> Concept.ly & Notism
14:44:42 <jackib> not invision?
14:45:07 <adi__> i've seen invision already, just haven't put it on the list yet
14:45:19 <adi__> concept is free and in beta at this stage
14:45:37 <adi__> quite useful. the only downside is that it does not support uploading of PDFs
14:46:23 <adi__> there is no limit on uploading files for concept
14:46:37 <lblanchard> adi__: Does concept have plans to support PDF? Any idea?
14:46:43 <adi__> i would encourage you to look at these 2 for now and provide feedback
14:46:52 <jackib> yea, PDF is pretty important
14:47:06 <adi__> i'm afraid i can't answer that right now as nowhere on the website it is mentioned
14:47:06 <lblanchard> I'll definitely check these out and add my feedback to this etherpad
14:47:11 <adi__> notism supports all the formats
14:47:21 <adi__> and is very much like invision
14:47:45 <adi__> the notism free tier provides 1 GB of upload
14:48:05 <adi__> no. of collaborators / reviewers not mentioned
14:48:38 <adi__> didnt find any opensource tool
14:48:49 <jcoufal> adi__: 1 GB storage in total?
14:48:51 <adi__> for collaboration / review
14:49:00 <adi__> yes, 1 gb for the free tier
14:49:26 <adi__> shouldn't it be enough?
14:49:35 <jackib> That won't go far
14:49:39 <jcoufal> for some time, yes
14:49:47 <jcoufal> but longer term...
14:49:48 <jackib> is it per month? or ever?
14:50:04 <adi__> forever i guess :)
14:50:25 <adi__> yes, 1 gb for ever
14:50:34 <jcoufal> adi__: have you guys found any tool which we can host by ourselves?
14:50:42 <lblanchard> yeah…considering we will be posting just images it will last a bit…but will fill up eventually
14:50:59 <adi__> found one called layerVault
14:51:45 <jackib> ah layervault is nice
14:51:53 <jackib> but self-hosting is enterprise version
14:52:06 <adi__> yes
14:52:17 <jackib> so probably expensive
14:52:42 <adi__> rest of the ones are pretty much paid apps
14:53:00 <jcoufal> yeah, we don't wanna go this way
14:53:17 <adi__> if storage isnt a huge issue, i would recomemnd concept and notism
14:53:30 <jcoufal> alright
14:53:45 <adi__> i guess you should take a look and update the etherpad
14:53:54 <adi__> in the next meeting we could finalize the tool to be used
14:54:11 <jcoufal> awesome
14:54:21 <jcoufal> do you need any help with this adi__ ?
14:54:24 <jackib> welllll….
14:54:36 <adi__> not really, i'm okay
14:54:47 <jackib> I suggest before finalizing we do some test runs. You always run into unexpected bumps with tools like thiat
14:54:48 <jackib> this
14:55:08 <adi__> yes, hence we should all take a shot at them
14:55:22 <adi__> may be share a few screens and see the effectiveness
14:55:48 <lblanchard> adi__: _1
14:55:51 <lblanchard> +1
14:55:52 <lblanchard> haha
14:56:11 <jackib> sounds good!
14:56:13 <jcoufal> jackib: +1
14:56:17 <adi__> alright, cool
14:56:21 <jcoufal> adi__: +1
14:56:24 <jcoufal> great
14:56:36 <jcoufal> good job so far adi__
14:56:52 <jcoufal> #topic Cross-project UI library
14:56:54 <adi__> thx, will keep on updating the etherpad
14:57:18 <jcoufal> so, this is mixed effort from multiple projects
14:57:20 <jcoufal> [UX] [Heat] [Mistral] [Murano] [Neutron] [Solum]
14:57:23 <jcoufal> in particular
14:57:37 <adi__> okay
14:57:52 <jcoufal> at the moment there is requirements gathering
14:57:53 <adi__> jarda, is this similar to what i've been talking about, for heat?
14:58:10 <jcoufal> adi__: I guess a bit different, but somewhat related
14:58:15 <adi__> okay
14:58:33 <jcoufal> here is the ongoing conversation:  http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/037054.html
14:59:00 <jcoufal> and the etherpad:  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/9XQ7Q2NQdv
14:59:30 <jcoufal> also related gdoc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Q9JwoO77724RyOp7XkpYmALwmdb7JjoQHcDv4ffZ-I/edit#
14:59:47 <jcoufal> these guys asked for UX help which is great
15:00:01 <jcoufal> anybody interested in helping there?
15:00:01 <adi__> yes
15:00:25 <jcoufal> I was a bit involved earlier
15:00:30 <jcoufal> but not heavily
15:00:36 <adi__> okay, for which project?
15:01:25 <jcoufal> adi__: what do you mean?
15:01:44 <lblanchard> I think a good step would be (if anyone has time/interest) to give feedback on the Google doc…https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Q9JwoO77724RyOp7XkpYmALwmdb7JjoQHcDv4ffZ-I/edit#
15:01:57 <adi__> i meant, which service did you work on, heat, murano?
15:02:36 <jcoufal> adi__: I meant I was involved a bit in this discussion and the library effort
15:02:38 <adi__> but that does not matter. i would be willing to look at heat in particular, given i already have some ideas there
15:02:47 <jcoufal> not directly in one or another project
15:02:53 <jcoufal> so whoever is interested in helping here
15:03:14 <jcoufal> I think lblanchard had a good point - let's start with contributing to the gdoc
15:03:47 <adi__> okay
15:05:04 <lblanchard> any volunteers?
15:05:04 <jackib1> I got an error when I clicked on this doc. anyone else?
15:05:05 <lblanchard> :)
15:05:26 <lblanchard> jackib1: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Q9JwoO77724RyOp7XkpYmALwmdb7JjoQHcDv4ffZ-I/edit#
15:05:29 <adi__> how about i take a look and get back later?
15:05:48 <lblanchard> jackib1: try that link…the one I sent earlier got munged
15:05:57 <jackib1> yep thanks!
15:06:20 <jackib1> OK, I have another meeting. I'll catch up on the rest of the meeting later
15:06:28 <adi__> bye
15:06:37 <jcoufal> bye bye jackib1
15:06:49 <lblanchard> thanks jackib1!
15:07:56 <jcoufal> adi__: sure, give it a shot when you can
15:08:20 <jcoufal> alright, let's move on
15:08:23 <jcoufal> #topic Faceted Search
15:08:44 <jcoufal> who suggested this topic?
15:09:19 <lblanchard> ah that was me :)
15:09:28 <lblanchard> similar to the last topic...
15:09:50 <lblanchard> there is an effort going on around faceted search that I think we could help with by giving some feedback
15:10:12 <lblanchard> maybe with respect to requirements to begin (what we would see being helpful in the UI for search)
15:10:15 <jcoufal> lblanchard: is it alive?
15:10:41 <jcoufal> I mean the effort
15:10:46 <lblanchard> jcoufal: I saw some recent activity from travis
15:10:56 <lblanchard> so it made me wonder if we should jump in at all
15:11:17 <jcoufal> I just know that this BP (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/faceted-search) is around for a very long time
15:11:27 <jcoufal> there were various inititatives (like elastic search)
15:11:41 <jcoufal> but they it was turned down
15:11:50 <jcoufal> I think the biggest blocker are the APIs
15:12:00 <lblanchard> yeah…sounds like maybe travis has the latest initiative…
15:12:13 <jcoufal> and the other approach was indexing
15:12:15 <lblanchard> jcoufal: I wonder if having a few wireframes around searching on a table in Horizon would be good
15:12:42 <lblanchard> jcoufal: that way we could have a proposal and let folks figure out the technical details, but we've at least thrown in what would be good from a user point of view feature wise...
15:12:52 <jcoufal> lblanchard: wasn't this intended for searching throughout the whole OpenStack?
15:13:10 <lblanchard> jcoufal: ah yes, now I remember…Travis is working on Graffiti
15:13:33 <lblanchard> jcoufal: right…we could definitely give feedback for other search requirements
15:13:42 <lblanchard> jcoufal: and Graffiti is focused on tagging
15:13:48 <lblanchard> clever name :)
15:14:02 <jcoufal> nice :)
15:14:11 <jcoufal> well tagging is important in general
15:14:18 <jcoufal> so it would be nice to get involved
15:14:26 <lblanchard> right…I at least wanted to bring it up here incase anyone has done anything yet
15:14:30 <jcoufal> and express the expactations for the UI
15:14:34 <lblanchard> and to advertise if anyone is interested
15:14:40 <lblanchard> exactly
15:14:58 <jcoufal> I guess as long as we are the only two left here, we should bring it up next time
15:15:25 <lblanchard> sounds good to leave it on the agenda for next time, thank you
15:15:27 <jcoufal> I would also suggest to stop alternating and have regular bi-weekly meetings on Monday instead - not to confuse people more :)
15:15:48 <lblanchard> heh, sounds good to me…doesn't seem like we've gotten any attendance that we didn't have for that first meeting
15:16:41 <jcoufal> I'll write an e-mail to the mailing list and probably we should continue with the regular Monday meetings once in 2 weeks
15:16:49 <jcoufal> so every second Monday
15:17:03 <adi__> okay
15:17:17 <lblanchard> jcoufal: it might get a bit tricky
15:17:18 <jcoufal> starting from July 7th I would say - since that's the scheduled next meeting
15:17:26 <jcoufal> lblanchard: would it?
15:17:42 <lblanchard> jcoufal: if we say the 1st and 3rd monday of the month…in certain months we'd skip 2 weeks in a row based on when Monday falls
15:17:55 <lblanchard> jcoufal: just a small thing about choosing specific mondays in the month
15:18:12 <jcoufal> nope, I would say each "odd" or "even" week
15:18:15 <lblanchard> however, if we schedule it for every other monday and have an invite, maybe that would work better?
15:18:34 <lblanchard> take July for example
15:18:43 <jcoufal> I completely agree
15:18:49 <lblanchard> oh okay
15:18:49 <jcoufal> I didn't want to say 1st and 3rd
15:18:55 <jcoufal> every other Monday
15:18:55 <lblanchard> cool
15:19:01 <lblanchard> we are on the same page then :)
15:19:04 <lblanchard> sounds good!
15:19:10 <jcoufal> starting from July 7th
15:19:18 <jcoufal> so we have 3 weeks off now
15:19:27 <adi__> 3 weeks is quite a gap
15:19:34 <adi__> i think we should do one after 2 weeks
15:19:40 <adi__> any comments?
15:20:06 <jcoufal> we will have to move the officially scheduled one
15:20:17 <jcoufal> not that it is big deal
15:20:24 <jcoufal> I will check in the mailing list
15:20:45 <lblanchard> sounds good
15:20:46 <jcoufal> probably June 30th sounds better
15:20:55 <adi__> yes
15:21:07 <jcoufal> Keep eyes on the mailing list please
15:21:09 <lblanchard> yeah, June 30th sounds good
15:21:13 <lblanchard> will do
15:21:20 <jcoufal> #topic Open discussion
15:21:31 <jcoufal> we already started but any other issues?
15:22:03 <jcoufal> lblanchard, adi__?
15:22:06 <adi__> im good
15:22:27 <jcoufal> since you are the two brave ones left :)
15:22:34 <adi__> haha
15:22:46 <lblanchard> all set!
15:22:54 <jcoufal> great
15:23:03 <jcoufal> thanks a lot for your participation and help
15:23:25 <jcoufal> #endmeeting