15:01:37 <flaper87> #startmeeting Zaqar
15:01:39 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Oct  6 15:01:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:41 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:01:43 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar'
15:01:55 <flaper87> #topic roll call
15:01:58 <flaper87> who's here?
15:02:02 <flaper87> I'm not
15:02:50 <kgriffs> o/
15:02:52 <flaper87> kgriffs: cpallares vkmc
15:03:01 <flaper87> so, vkmc is traveling, I guess she's not joining
15:03:23 <flaper87> zhiyan: ?
15:03:32 <cpallares> o/
15:03:42 <flaper87> aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, lets move on
15:03:50 <flaper87> This is our agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zaqar#Agenda
15:04:09 <flaper87> #topic Actions from previous meetings
15:04:16 <flaper87> so, there are no actions from previous meetings
15:04:24 <flaper87> LOL, that was short, easy and painless
15:04:30 <flaper87> #topic What is our release plan for v1.1? Is it frozen? (kgriffs)
15:04:33 <flaper87> kgriffs: floor is yours
15:05:18 <flaper87> kgriffs: I promise, you'll have breakfast after this
15:05:25 <kgriffs> heh
15:05:26 <flaper87> kgriffs: speak, don't be afraid
15:05:28 <flaper87> :P
15:05:52 <kgriffs> so, I just wanted to talk about our plans around finalizing v1.1 of the api
15:06:42 <flaper87> afaict, it's pretty much complete now and what we wanted to do on it, it's done
15:06:53 <flaper87> I think we can go ahead and freeze it
15:07:08 <kgriffs> are all the pooling things stable now?
15:07:33 <flaper87> yeah, there are some patches with fixes but I think it's fine to accept bug fixes
15:07:45 <flaper87> no new features or changes to the public semantics should be needed
15:08:12 <flaper87> kgriffs: the 2 patches I mentioned add `links` to the returned document for pool and flavor
15:08:21 <flaper87> there's nothing else as far as I remember
15:08:50 <kgriffs> what is the strategy for dealing with "additive" changes, such as returning a couple more values in the queue stats response
15:09:26 <kgriffs> i can't remember if we have a guideline in the API that says clients must ignore extra fields they don't recognize - in other words, don't break if the response has more things in it
15:09:32 <flaper87> as long as they don't change the existing semantics (meaning they don't break backwards compatibility) I think it's fine
15:09:43 <flaper87> exactly
15:10:24 <kgriffs> "Unrecognized protocol elements received from the server should simply be ignored. This includes JSON object properties, link relation types, media types, etc."
15:10:34 <kgriffs> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zaqar/specs/api/v1.1#Resource_Media_Types
15:10:58 <flaper87> +2
15:11:59 <kgriffs> flaper87: is there anything left we need to get into the final Icehouse release so that if someone deploys that, they can be sure that it will support the entire v1.1 API as spec'd?
15:12:34 <flaper87> mmh, Icehouse?
15:12:41 <flaper87> you meant Juno ?
15:12:44 <kgriffs> oops, yeah
15:12:45 * flaper87 confused
15:12:47 <flaper87> ah ok
15:12:48 <kgriffs> juno
15:13:05 <flaper87> then no, I think the whole spec is covered
15:13:11 <flaper87> we can do a sanity check this week
15:13:22 <flaper87> and I'll write down a notice announcing v1.1 is frozen
15:13:48 <flaper87> I think even the client has full support for v1.1 now
15:13:50 <kgriffs> ok. related, perhaps we can get this on today's agenda too - smoke testing both v1.1 and v1.0 with "recommended" production deployment configurations
15:14:17 <kgriffs> that should uncover any minor things that we may have missed
15:14:21 <flaper87> #action flaper87 and kgriffs to sanity check that v1.1 is fully implemented as written in the spec
15:14:43 <flaper87> #action flaper87 to write a note announcing v1.1 is frozen if the previous action is indeed complete
15:14:51 <flaper87> kgriffs: want to do it right away ?
15:14:58 <flaper87> #topic smoke test v1.1 and v1.0
15:15:05 <zhiyan> Hi, sorry I'm still in holiday, but for 1.1 Api stuff May I do a double check here?
15:15:17 <flaper87> zhiyan: that'd be great
15:15:25 <flaper87> lets talk when you're back
15:15:30 <flaper87> I'll point you to the right places
15:15:37 <zhiyan> Ok
15:16:16 <zhiyan> Actually just want to make sure the extra queue stat  what I proposed in last meeting
15:17:05 <zhiyan> If it could be added in 11 or four should do it in 20
15:17:06 <flaper87> zhiyan: sure, we can talk about that further in a bit if you're still around
15:17:22 <flaper87> I think v1.1 is fine, it's an addition to the stats dict
15:17:27 <flaper87> kgriffs: around? smoke test?
15:17:34 <kgriffs> yep
15:17:57 <kgriffs> so, I'd like us all to be confident that someone deploying juno in production won't find any bad bugs
15:18:13 <zhiyan> Ok. I talked that with kgriffs and flwang, they think these two items are ok
15:18:18 <kgriffs> therefore, I propose standing up some clusters and banging on them manually - using curl, the client, whatever
15:18:35 <flaper87> kgriffs: would something like this help? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125562/4
15:18:44 <flaper87> kgriffs: we can make that job run for zaqar too
15:18:54 <flaper87> I'm adding it to zaqarclient first
15:18:59 <flaper87> so we can test it
15:19:18 <flaper87> but we could make it vote in zaqar and that'd be like our tempest++ test
15:19:33 <flaper87> it'd ensure we're not breaking the client and that we're not breaking the server
15:19:43 <flaper87> that patch runs all the client functional tests
15:19:43 <kgriffs> i think that definitely helps. but before each big release I think we need to do some manual testing and against clusters that are outside devstack.
15:19:56 <flaper87> kgriffs: fair enough
15:20:29 <flaper87> kgriffs: any idea how we can automate this? I know you said manual but we need some scripts that would help on making this process easier
15:20:52 <kgriffs> mmm, good point
15:22:19 <kgriffs> i was just going to say
15:22:36 <kgriffs> you can't automatically verify that error messages are helpful/make sense
15:22:47 <kgriffs> but then to test that we would need to force error conditions
15:23:00 <flaper87> kgriffs: mmh, ok, then lets organize a test-day
15:23:04 <kgriffs> actually, we should do that anyway - like force a master failover and stuff
15:23:07 <kgriffs> but anyway
15:23:35 <flaper87> Lets write down a list of tests we want to do
15:23:40 <kgriffs> it may not be as much "manual" as "real production deployment and simulating failures"
15:23:43 <flaper87> then organize a test day and call for volunteers
15:23:54 <flaper87> and ask each of them to take just 1 task
15:23:58 <kgriffs> and also "requests from a type of client we don't normally test"
15:24:08 <flaper87> we can share this info in openstack-dev and even #rdo
15:24:22 <kgriffs> test day sounds good
15:24:28 <flaper87> But I think we first need to work on the list of things we want to test
15:24:35 <kgriffs> the biggest amount of work is setting up the test cluster(s)
15:24:39 <flaper87> Make sure it's broad enough to cover a real production environment
15:24:47 <kgriffs> flaper87: yep
15:24:56 <flaper87> kgriffs: I can help you with that
15:25:04 <flaper87> also, I think we need the test cluster for some tests
15:25:17 <flaper87> but other tests can also be run manually in each volunteer's laptop
15:25:28 <flaper87> Like verify the usefulness of error messages
15:25:37 <flaper87> well, actually, the test cluster makes everything easier
15:26:01 <flaper87> #action kgriffs and flaper87 to work on a list of pre-release tests for test day
15:26:11 <kgriffs> sounds like a plan
15:26:23 <flaper87> kgriffs: awesome, thanks for bringing this up
15:26:38 <kgriffs> sure thing
15:26:39 <flaper87> #topic Where are we from a durable/reliable perspective?
15:26:57 <flaper87> So, I'm not going to get much into detail here but I did want to bring this up
15:27:26 <flaper87> I think we need to do a deep dive and analize where we're standing w.r.t durability, reliability and scalability
15:27:40 <flaper87> I'm not talking about performance testing but deployment architectures
15:27:53 <flaper87> for example: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125938/
15:28:00 <flaper87> I started working on that documentation
15:28:16 <flaper87> It helped me to clear out where the mongodb driver is standing w.r.t the above
15:28:30 <flaper87> and it'll also help deployers to understand what each driver is useful for
15:28:37 <flaper87> I think we also need to do that for the redis driver
15:28:57 <flaper87> the actual documentation is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125938/4/zaqar/queues/storage/mongodb/__init__.py,cm
15:29:33 <flaper87> Basically, what I'd like us to do is to work on defining what the recommended deployment scenario is from the bottom up
15:30:14 <flaper87> I'm sure more experienced dev/ops will show up and prove us wrong but until then lets provide at least a starting point
15:30:30 <kgriffs> should we come up with a set of things that should be documented for each driver?
15:30:32 <cpallares> flaper87: ++
15:30:58 <flaper87> now, easy question to make but hard to answer: Who volunteers for the redis driver?
15:30:58 <kgriffs> like, "here is how you get HA"
15:31:03 <flaper87> kgriffs: I started working on this: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-storage-requirements
15:31:09 <kgriffs> and "here is how you scale up and out"
15:31:26 <flaper87> that's kinda something drivers must provide but also a starting point for these docs
15:31:32 <kgriffs> and "performance tips"
15:31:50 <flaper87> kgriffs: +1 for performance tips
15:31:54 <flaper87> all those things are useful
15:32:19 <flaper87> I think the main 3 things that must be documented are in that etherpad. We can have custom sections per driver if needed
15:32:52 <kgriffs> ok
15:33:04 <flaper87> obviously, feel free to edit that etherpad
15:33:22 <flaper87> it's a work in progress for this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125658/
15:33:31 <flaper87> ok, that's it from me for this topic
15:33:37 <kgriffs> ok
15:33:43 <kgriffs> real quick
15:33:46 <flaper87> shoot
15:34:07 <kgriffs> I know everyone is all keen on "scale-out" but there are some "scale up" things that make sense too
15:34:14 <kgriffs> for example, use SSDs in your mongo box
15:34:56 <flaper87> indeed there are, I think we have to mention those
15:35:04 <flaper87> mongo docs mention some scale-up tips
15:35:05 <kgriffs> I was just thinking it would be good to just mention a few things like that, or at least link to some docs or books people can reference to learn more
15:35:11 <flaper87> and it's fair to point people there
15:35:17 <flaper87> kgriffs: ++
15:35:39 <kgriffs> kewl
15:35:52 <flaper87> I'm also thinking about adding a note in mongo docs saying: I've no idea how sharding works so it'll probably blow up
15:36:01 * flaper87 is obviously kidding
15:36:04 <flaper87> ... about the note
15:36:05 <kgriffs> lol
15:36:06 <flaper87> :P
15:36:21 <flaper87> aaanyway
15:36:23 <flaper87> moving on
15:36:28 <flaper87> #topic Design Sessions (flaper87)
15:36:47 <flaper87> sooooooooooo, design sessions https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-zaqar-summit-topics
15:36:50 <flaper87> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-zaqar-summit-topics
15:37:18 <flaper87> I'd like to organize more than 4 sessions. We'll have room for 4 and then just pod sessions
15:37:28 <flaper87> but I'd like to give our pod discussions some schedule
15:37:35 <flaper87> just to make sure we know when to be there
15:37:54 <flaper87> that said, I'd like to reserve the design sessions for topics other projects may be interested on
15:38:20 <flaper87> so far I have "v2 kick-off" and "persistent transports"
15:38:32 <flaper87> the summit is less than a month away and we need to sort this out
15:38:49 <flaper87> please, dedicate some time to this and add ideas there
15:38:53 <flaper87> that's it
15:39:06 <flaper87> anything else? anyone?
15:39:42 <flaper87> ok
15:39:42 <kgriffs> um
15:39:46 <kgriffs> wait
15:39:49 * flaper87 waits
15:40:04 <kgriffs> when are Zaqar's 4 slots scheduled?
15:40:12 <flaper87> Tuesday
15:40:18 <kgriffs> I have to admit, I've been a bit out of the loop lately
15:40:22 <flaper87> all incuabted projects are scheduled on Tuesday
15:40:35 <flaper87> along with workshops and cross-project things
15:40:41 <kgriffs> oic
15:40:47 <kgriffs> tuesday morning or afternoon?
15:40:53 <kgriffs> is this posted somewhere?
15:40:55 <flaper87> #link http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/
15:40:59 <flaper87> both
15:41:08 <flaper87> 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon
15:41:09 <kgriffs> oic
15:41:18 <kgriffs> for some reason I thought we weren't using sched this year
15:41:56 <kgriffs> oic, we are using it, just the topics are TBD
15:42:14 <flaper87> yup
15:43:18 <flaper87> kgriffs: want to add something else?
15:43:20 <flaper87> :D
15:43:39 <kgriffs> I'm just trying to think of what other things would be good to use the room for vs. the pod
15:43:55 <kgriffs> do we want to meet up with horizon and heat?
15:43:57 <flaper87> we can do it this week and decide next week
15:44:10 <kgriffs> ...and swift
15:44:12 <flaper87> probably heat, I gotta talk with them and see if they want to do that
15:44:44 <kgriffs> ok
15:45:07 <flaper87> moving on
15:45:13 <flaper87> #topic Make FIFO optional (flaper87)
15:45:30 <flaper87> first, we obviously don't have to decide now
15:45:31 <flaper87> :D
15:45:34 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/125986/
15:45:45 <flaper87> I submitted that, lets make sure we give it enough discussion
15:45:54 <flaper87> lets comment on the spec and decide there
15:46:14 <flaper87> but lets do it before the summit since that'll be part of the v2 discussion and probably other discussions
15:47:01 <flaper87> OMFG, I just dicovered something
15:47:06 <flaper87> #link http://docs-draft.openstack.org/86/125986/1/check/gate-zaqar-specs-docs/5292dc3/doc/build/html/
15:47:29 <flaper87> if the docs gate passes you can go to the rendered docs by clicking on the job link
15:47:38 <flaper87> I had no idea
15:47:59 <kgriffs> #link http://docs-draft.openstack.org/86/125986/1/check/gate-zaqar-specs-docs/5292dc3/doc/build/html/specs/kilo/fifo-optional.html
15:48:00 <kgriffs> pretty
15:48:15 <flaper87> damn, you beat me
15:48:36 <flaper87> ok, lets think about it and also consider what kgriffs wrote here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-design-constraints
15:48:40 <kgriffs> ok, so comment on the RST file directly for the discussion
15:48:50 <flaper87> everything must be taken into account
15:48:51 <flaper87> kgriffs: yup
15:49:10 <flaper87> kewl, we've 10 mins left
15:49:16 <flaper87> anything else on this topic?
15:49:26 <kgriffs> I'm good
15:49:35 <flaper87> #topic open discussion
15:50:08 <flaper87> kgriffs: I saw you commented on the sentinel patch
15:50:21 <flaper87> lets see if it gets udpated soon enough
15:50:26 <flaper87> otherwise, we should do it
15:50:35 <flaper87> I'd like to talk with ttx about the rc2 asap
15:51:19 <kgriffs> yeah, looks like no new patchsets since we talked about it last week
15:51:42 <flaper87> kgriffs: ok, I'd say feel free to update it
15:52:32 <kgriffs> ok, if someone sees prashanth please let him know
15:52:55 <flaper87> I will look for him tomorrow morning!
15:53:00 <flaper87> ok, that's all folks
15:53:07 <kgriffs> flaper87:
15:53:08 <kgriffs> wait
15:53:12 * flaper87 waits
15:53:13 <kgriffs> what else should go in RC2
15:53:13 <flaper87> :P
15:53:25 <kgriffs> are you keeping a list of things to backport?
15:53:30 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123750/
15:53:31 <flaper87> yes
15:53:34 <flaper87> just 2 patches
15:53:39 <flaper87> sentinel's and that one
15:53:58 <flaper87> I'll move bugs to rc2 as soon as I have a milestone for it
15:54:03 <kgriffs> what about
15:54:04 <flaper87> I gotta talk with ttx
15:54:06 <kgriffs> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123626/
15:54:32 <kgriffs> and
15:54:35 <kgriffs> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123462/
15:55:02 <flaper87> yeah, those 2 are rc2 worth it. I wasn't *that* worried because they are not release blockers and can be backported even after the release
15:55:11 <flaper87> wherease the sentinel thing is indeed release blocker
15:55:20 <flaper87> but since we'll have rc2, we can backport all these patches
15:55:35 <flaper87> that should give us a cleaner release
15:55:41 <kgriffs> ok
15:55:46 <kgriffs> that's it from me
15:56:44 <flaper87> sweet :D
15:56:51 <flaper87> phew, we covered quite some things
15:57:05 <flaper87> ok, that's all folks, for realz this time!
15:57:10 <flaper87> tty all next week
15:57:13 <flaper87> have a great week
15:57:16 <flaper87> #endmeeting