21:01:07 <flaper87> #startmeeting Zaqar 21:01:08 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Aug 17 21:01:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:01:09 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:01:11 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar' 21:01:21 <flaper87> vkmc: exploreshaifali flwang1 21:01:26 <vkmc> HI 21:01:29 <exploreshaifali> hi! 21:01:34 <flaper87> hellooooooooooooooooooooooo 21:01:46 <vkmc> o/ 21:01:53 <flaper87> #topic Roll Call 21:01:55 <flaper87> o/ 21:01:58 <vkmc> o/ 21:02:04 <exploreshaifali> o/ 21:02:24 <flaper87> #topic Agenda 21:02:27 <flaper87> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zaqar#Agenda 21:02:34 <flaper87> that's our agenda for today 21:02:46 <flaper87> I believe we don't have pending actions from last week other than reviews 21:02:54 <flaper87> so, lets get started with our topics for today 21:03:05 <flaper87> #topic Pending important reviews 21:03:12 * flaper87 checks gerrit 21:03:23 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213744/ 21:03:33 <flaper87> recently, auth for ws landed. That patch fixes a deauth bug 21:03:56 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/202374/ ( flwang1 ) 21:04:07 <flaper87> That's email notifications, it still needs to be updated 21:04:14 <flwang1> o/ 21:04:23 <flaper87> flwang1: morning buddy 21:04:28 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212828/ 21:04:30 <vkmc> flwang1, morning! 21:04:37 <flaper87> That one is a new baby but quite important too 21:04:42 <flwang1> mornings, zaqers :0 21:04:46 <flaper87> That puts us closer to running mongodb+sql 21:04:47 <exploreshaifali> morning flwang1 :) 21:05:13 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195010/ 21:05:21 <flaper87> That's claims for WS 21:05:26 <flaper87> vkmc has been updating it 21:05:35 <flaper87> and we kinda have to merge it to complete the ws work 21:05:41 <flaper87> we still have time so please, lets get to it 21:06:01 <flaper87> #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199824/ 21:06:05 <vkmc> claims, notifications (therve's) and we are all set for ws I guess 21:06:08 <flaper87> Set unreliable to False by default 21:06:34 <flaper87> vkmc: yup, remember we'll discuss notifications+ws tomorrow at 12/13 UTC 21:06:47 <vkmc> yes :) will be there 21:06:49 <flaper87> lets see how that goes and if we can merge WS notifications in Liberty 21:06:56 <flaper87> ok, that's it from the reviews side 21:07:04 <flaper87> Great work on reviews last week 21:07:20 <flaper87> Lets keep it up and review the pending patches 21:07:32 <flaper87> btw 21:07:46 <flaper87> One note w.r.t reviews 21:07:48 <flaper87> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072191.html 21:08:01 <flaper87> Ryan Brown has accepted to join the core-reviewers team 21:08:33 <vkmc> wohoooo 21:08:34 <flaper87> With full honesty, that sets us one step farther away from having a diverse team 21:08:45 <flaper87> Nonetheless, I'm very happy about it 21:09:04 <flaper87> Ryan has provided great reviews and guidance 21:09:18 <flaper87> please chime in if you've something to share/say 21:09:20 <flaper87> :D 21:09:29 <exploreshaifali> Great! yes he answer my questions :P 21:09:53 <flaper87> :D 21:09:55 <vkmc> ryansb is great, I'm really happy to have him in Zaqar 21:10:07 <flwang1> flaper87: seems all the zaqar core team members should be redhater, right? 21:10:14 <flwang1> can you send my CV to your boss? 21:10:25 <exploreshaifali> haha 21:10:28 <flaper87> flwang1: you can just send it to me ;) 21:11:04 <vkmc> lol flwang1 21:11:39 <flwang1> ok, seriously, we need more guys from the other org 21:11:41 <flaper87> flwang1: yeah, I'm not very proud of that but that's the best we can afford from now until ametts sends back ppl from RAX :P 21:11:58 <vkmc> we need more diversity in our team, please bring more Catalyzers flwang1! 21:12:03 <flaper87> flwang1: or you can put more resources :) 21:12:13 <vkmc> (I just invented a term to call people from Catalyst) 21:12:27 <flwang1> flaper87: i will 21:12:28 <flaper87> Catalystizers is WAY better 21:12:30 <flaper87> just sayin' 21:12:33 <vkmc> hahaha 21:12:43 <flaper87> flwang1 I'll take your word on that 21:12:44 <flaper87> :) 21:12:49 <vkmc> just repeat it 10 times non-stop 21:12:58 <vkmc> and tape yourself doing that 21:12:59 <flaper87> argh, MY HEAD! 21:13:04 <vkmc> and post it to twitter 21:13:04 <vkmc> thanks 21:13:07 <flwang1> flaper87: i will eat my words if you still don't buy a beer for me 21:13:14 <flaper87> did anyone see my last vine? 21:13:15 <flaper87> T_T 21:13:22 <vkmc> nope 21:13:23 * flaper87 keeps embarrasing himself 21:13:28 <flaper87> ok, don't go there 21:13:33 <vkmc> too late 21:13:51 <flaper87> flwang1 I'll buy you TONS of beers 21:13:57 <flaper87> with vkmc's credit card 21:14:02 <flaper87> ok, moving on 21:14:05 <flaper87> #topic OpenStack Summit (Tokyo) 21:14:08 <vkmc> flaper87, good luck with that :D haha 21:14:24 <flaper87> Not much to say there, to be honest. However, we need to start planning sessions. 21:14:38 <vkmc> yeah 21:14:41 <vkmc> I have one I have one I have one 21:14:43 <flaper87> We know what features landed in Liberty and the ones left for Mitaka 21:14:57 <flaper87> therefore, I'd like us to start brainstorming on specs on what's next in terms of features 21:15:23 <flaper87> Just like for Liberty, I think we should keep the number of features in Zaqar small and focus on having other projects consuming Zaqar 21:15:52 <flaper87> In addition to that, I believe we should have sessions for things that have a spec 21:16:23 <flaper87> Rather than going there and just do basic brainstorming, I'd like us to use that time to clear doubts and move some specs forward 21:16:32 <vkmc> so, maybe its a good moment to talk about integration with Horizon? 21:16:35 <flaper87> Although, this needs to be discussed with the next PTL as well 21:17:00 <flaper87> vkmc: what kind of integration? 21:17:22 <flaper87> vkmc: horizon consiming Zaqar? or having a Zaqar UI on horizon? 21:17:29 <vkmc> flaper87, Horizon consuming Zaqar 21:17:48 <vkmc> for the Zaqar UI... I think that one is not so urgent 21:18:01 <flaper87> vkmc: exploreshaifali is working on the UI, AFAIR 21:18:07 <exploreshaifali> yes 21:18:08 <vkmc> cool 21:18:12 <vkmc> I didn't know about it 21:18:21 <flaper87> vkmc: re horizon consuming Zaqar, it'd be really cool 21:18:32 <exploreshaifali> today only I had a littile discussion about same with one Horizon dev 21:18:32 <flaper87> However, we should also prioritize adoption efforts 21:18:45 <flaper87> This cycle we focused a lot on Heat and we had tons of help from Heat folks 21:18:46 <exploreshaifali> and he asked me to prepare a BP first 21:18:59 <vkmc> nice 21:19:15 <flaper87> Next cycle, I think we could focus on either guest-agent or user-facing notifications 21:19:51 <flaper87> At this point, I'm leaning towards the later since it's definitely a use-case that hasn't been explored enough 21:19:56 <flwang1> flaper87: any links about the integration with heat? should we invite heat folks to give/join a session? 21:20:20 <flaper87> flwang1: I think we should give space to other projects this time 21:20:28 <flaper87> We've had Heat sessions for 2 summits in a row 21:20:40 <flaper87> and we've gotten to the point where heat is consuming Zaqar 21:20:48 <flaper87> now we need to help other projects 21:20:49 <flwang1> flaper87: ok, cool 21:21:00 <flaper87> Also, I'd like to see a session on the client 21:21:11 <flaper87> I hope dynarro will be able to attend and prepare that session 21:21:21 <flwang1> flaper87: i vote for a GUI of zaqar in horizon and the integration of horizon 21:21:55 <flaper87> flwang1: I'd love to have a GUI but that's at the bottom of my interests and what I believe is urgent 21:22:12 <exploreshaifali> I think I can prepare spec for zaqar GUI before summit 21:22:14 <flaper87> unless you folks think otherwise, I'd prefer to stick with that 21:22:25 <flaper87> exploreshaifali: that should be a horizon spec, though. 21:22:39 <exploreshaifali> yeah 21:22:48 <flaper87> I'd love to attend that session if it is scheduled and approved 21:23:19 <exploreshaifali> great! :) 21:23:23 <flwang1> flaper87: how about the swift notification middleware? 21:23:41 <flaper87> flwang1: that's another exciting use-case, great thinking. 21:23:48 <flaper87> flwang1: we should also sync with them 21:24:02 <flaper87> #info sync with notmyname and swift folks about swift consuming zaqar 21:24:21 * flaper87 intentionally summoned notmyname 21:24:46 <flwang1> s/notmyname/flaper87 21:24:49 <flaper87> #info sync with folks from horizon to clarify their use-case for Zaqar now that websocket is in place 21:25:29 <flaper87> ok, anything else? 21:25:44 * notmyname will be happy to talk. is in meeting for a few more minute 21:25:57 <flaper87> Can we convert the above into action items? 21:26:12 <flaper87> flwang1 would you like to sync with ppl from swift ? 21:26:20 <flaper87> vkmc: would you like to sync with folks from horizon ? 21:26:34 <vkmc> flaper87, sure 21:26:40 <flaper87> I will sync again w/ folks from Sahara since their required feature is implemented 21:26:46 <vkmc> #action vkmc sync with folks from horizon 21:26:48 <flwang1> flaper87: yes, and what's the ppl you're talking about? 21:27:04 <flaper87> #action vkmc to sync with folks from horizon about a possible joint session for zaqar+horizon 21:27:18 <vkmc> thanks 21:27:33 <flaper87> #action flwang1 to sync with folks from swift about a possible joint session for zaqar+swift (swift notification middleware) 21:27:48 <flaper87> #action flwang1 to sync with folks from Sahara about their guest-agent use-case 21:27:51 <flaper87> damnit 21:27:52 <flaper87> #undo 21:27:52 <openstack> Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x9a13cd0> 21:27:56 <flaper87> #action flaper87 to sync with folks from Sahara about their guest-agent use-case 21:28:04 <flaper87> ooooooooooooooooook 21:28:06 <flaper87> we can move on now 21:28:22 <flaper87> #topic Testing and Focus 21:28:52 <flaper87> I believe this cycle has been productive so far. We still don't have a crazy load of users but we've moved forward with steadier steps 21:29:10 <flaper87> Now is the time to test what we've done and make sure it's as rock solid as we can expect it to be 21:29:29 <flaper87> therefore, I'd like to call for a joint testing session 21:29:53 <flaper87> What day from next week would work for you ? 21:30:12 <flaper87> I'd like us to dedicate a full-day (or as much as you can from that day) to testing Zaqar 21:30:34 <flaper87> Single node, multi-node, pre-signed url, websocket, etc 21:30:41 <flaper87> V2 needs testing-love 21:30:44 <flaper87> and so on 21:30:47 <vkmc> sounds good 21:31:02 <vkmc> Thursday/Friday are usually good for me (no meetings those days) 21:31:05 <exploreshaifali> yea its exciting 21:31:16 <flaper87> flwang1: what about you? 21:31:20 <flaper87> exploreshaifali: what about you? 21:31:26 <flaper87> Thursday/Friday? 21:31:30 <flaper87> Shall we do Friday? 21:31:33 <exploreshaifali> I am ok with any day 21:31:36 <flaper87> It'd be like a hackday 21:31:37 <flwang1> Friday works for me 21:31:38 <exploreshaifali> yup Friday will work 21:31:54 <flaper87> Awesome, Friday next week it is 21:31:59 <flwang1> flaper87: i'm interested in the performance of notification 21:32:01 <exploreshaifali> :D 21:32:11 <flaper87> That should give us enough time to land the remanining patches 21:32:28 <flaper87> flwang1: yeah, same here. I'll work on a list of tasks for the test-day 21:32:39 <flaper87> Etherpad, that is. 21:32:41 <flwang1> flaper87: cool 21:32:43 <vkmc> I want to check websocket vs wsgi :o 21:33:43 <flaper87> awesome 21:33:47 <flaper87> all that sounds awesome 21:33:54 <flaper87> ok, I don't have much else on this topic 21:34:15 <flaper87> I wanted us to find a date and schedule the test-day 21:34:24 <flaper87> I'll send an email to the mailing list and then a reminder next-week 21:34:36 <vkmc> cool 21:34:40 <flaper87> anything else? 21:35:34 <flaper87> I'll take that as a no 21:35:39 <flaper87> #topic Open Discussion 21:36:05 <vkmc> I have a few things for Open Discussion 21:36:08 <vkmc> 1. Rally gate 21:36:09 <flaper87> go 21:36:09 <flwang1> i have a open question 21:36:22 <vkmc> it has been failing for a while now 21:36:24 <flwang1> yep, i saw the rally gate failure recently 21:36:28 <vkmc> and I couldn't be able to find logs on that 21:36:46 <vkmc> zaqar server seems not to be starting and there are on logs on the screens 21:36:48 <flaper87> vkmc: yeah, I was going to work on the gate today and then got side-tracked 21:36:49 <flwang1> vkmc: is there a bug? 21:36:54 <flwang1> i can work on that 21:37:05 <vkmc> flwang1, nope, I didn't file a bug 21:37:07 <flaper87> that said, I think the reason the server is not showing the logs is because of the "fork" code 21:37:17 <vkmc> oh 21:37:20 <flaper87> flwang1: how's the policy work going ? 21:37:52 <flwang1> flaper87: it works based on my test, and i'm trying to make the unit test pass 21:38:22 <flaper87> flwang1: cool, I look forward to your patch 21:38:27 <flwang1> we just need some decorators like this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209910/1/zaqar/transport/wsgi/v2_0/queues.py 21:38:43 <flaper87> I'm heads down on fixing bugs now so, lets try to find as many as we can and fix them 21:39:09 <flwang1> flaper87: i have another topic 21:39:14 <flaper87> go 21:39:20 <flwang1> not sure if all of you guys are interested in 21:39:29 <flwang1> as we're trying to adopt zaqar 21:39:48 <flwang1> but you know, we're public cloud(though we're small), so we need to charge our customer 21:40:01 <flwang1> for zaqar, the question is how to charge our customer 21:40:41 <flwang1> you know, there is no api request statistics components in openstack, like AWS 21:40:54 <flaper87> flwang1: I'm very interested in that topic 21:41:02 <vkmc> flwang1, me too 21:41:08 <flaper87> and I'm sad we couldn't improve our story there during Liberty 21:41:15 <flwang1> so we're thinking another way to charge user based on message number 21:41:15 <flaper87> That said, I think we have some options 21:41:29 <flaper87> These options include emitting things to ceilo or statsd 21:41:31 <exploreshaifali> may be by counting/tracking the size and number of messages 21:41:34 <flwang1> but because AWS and RAX are charging based on API request 21:41:41 <flwang1> so i'm not sure if it's stupid ideae 21:41:58 <vkmc> flwang1, AWS SQS/SNS have the same charging schema? 21:42:06 <vkmc> than the rest of AWS 21:42:12 <flaper87> What if we leave that to the cloud provider? What if we limit ourselves to emit as much useful information as we can? 21:42:36 <flwang1> First 1 million Amazon SQS Requests per month are free $0.50 per 1 million Amazon SQS Requests per month thereafter ($0.00000050 per SQS Request) 21:42:39 <flaper87> Once the cloud provider has info to reason about, it'll be easy to find compeating plans 21:42:43 <flwang1> vkmc: ^ 21:42:53 <flaper87> flwang1: requests or messages? 21:42:58 <vkmc> I see 21:42:58 <flaper87> What about bulk requests ? 21:42:59 <vkmc> requests 21:43:05 <flaper87> erm, bulk inserts 21:43:09 <flwang1> request 21:43:10 <vkmc> A single request can have from 1 to 10 messages, up to a maximum total payload of 256KB. 21:43:11 <flwang1> api request 21:43:18 <flaper87> ok 21:43:24 <flaper87> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenteresting 21:43:44 <flaper87> so yeah, I think the best thing we can do is not to start reasoning about what metrics we can emit 21:43:51 <flaper87> Then ask for feedback to OPs 21:44:00 <vkmc> yup 21:44:01 <flaper87> and start emitting a sub-set of those metrics 21:44:11 <flwang1> flaper87: i was thinking we can create another pipeline plugin like the notifications plugin to count the message numbers for billing 21:44:28 <flwang1> but i'm not sure if that's the correct direction 21:44:29 <vkmc> would it make sense to consume Ceilometer for this? 21:44:50 <flwang1> like i mentioned above, because AWS and RAX didn't go for that 21:44:52 <flaper87> flwang1: mmh, I think we already have that info in the transport layer but we'll figure that out later 21:45:12 <flwang1> brb in 5 mins 21:45:14 <flaper87> vkmc: yup, I'd say ceilo or statsd 21:45:26 <vkmc> flaper87, never heard of statsd 21:45:37 <vkmc> cool 21:45:43 <flaper87> I just don't like the idea of working on some specific metrics and say: "This is how you should bill" 21:45:56 <vkmc> but we can collect metrics 21:46:00 <vkmc> and the cloud provider decides 21:46:04 <flaper87> I'd rather have a set of metrics and say: "This is what you have for billing, you figure it out" 21:46:12 <vkmc> "ok, I'll charge on no of queues... no of messages... no of requests.." 21:46:15 <vkmc> yeah 21:46:34 <vkmc> charge for all the things 21:47:10 <flaper87> "You've been breathing a lot today, Sir. We'll charge you 0.01 for each breath you took" 21:47:21 <vkmc> haha 21:47:41 <flaper87> lets give flwang1 a couple of mins to come back and comment, otherwise, we'll call it 21:47:46 <vkmc> sure 21:47:48 <vkmc> in the meantime 21:47:57 <vkmc> I want to gently remind 21:47:59 <vkmc> 2. docs 21:48:11 <vkmc> we don't have docs whatsoever for api v2.0 21:48:25 <vkmc> I'll document websocket, but we also need some love for the other features 21:48:37 <vkmc> well, ws is for v1.1 21:48:38 <flaper87> True that, I'll do my part on pre-signed URLs 21:48:49 <vkmc> let's say, new features 21:49:00 <vkmc> 3. client and cli 21:49:12 <vkmc> we need to catch up with reviews there as well 21:49:28 <vkmc> we have implementations for pools and flavors for the cli, and support for v2 for several endpoints 21:49:45 <flaper87> yup yup 21:49:58 <flaper87> I'm hoping we can do a zaqarclient release soon 21:50:03 <vkmc> yeah me too 21:50:10 <flaper87> I'd like to work on pre-signed urls first 21:50:10 <vkmc> dynarro has been working a lot on that 21:50:21 <flaper87> niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice 21:50:28 <vkmc> and we also have some contributions diga and exploreshaifali did 21:51:01 <flaper87> +1 21:51:08 <flaper87> ok, lets call it! 21:51:16 <vkmc> sweet 21:51:17 <flaper87> flwang1: we can keep talking in #os-zaqar 21:51:22 <flaper87> THANKS FOLKS! 21:51:28 <flaper87> great meeting and lets keep it up 21:51:32 <flaper87> #endmeeting