21:09:49 <vkmc> #startmeeting zaqar
21:09:50 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Oct 12 21:09:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is vkmc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:09:52 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:09:54 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar'
21:10:02 <njohnston> o/
21:10:04 <vkmc> #topic Roll call
21:10:06 <vkmc> o/
21:10:16 <vkmc> hi everybody
21:10:30 <njohnston> Hi!
21:10:52 <vkmc> so this is kinda improvised and it will be probably a short meeting since I didn't got a notification from the PTL regarding their presence today
21:11:13 <Eva-i> Hello, hello
21:11:14 <jasondotstar> o/
21:12:03 <vkmc> I'm aware we have some topics to discuss today though :)
21:12:33 <vkmc> #topic Zaqar UI for Horizon
21:13:44 <vkmc> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076703.html
21:14:17 <vkmc> exploreshaifali worked on creating some mockups for something we have been waiting for a while ago... the UI for Zaqar
21:14:26 <exploreshaifali> Hello!
21:14:46 <vkmc> probably this effort will take some cycles to be concluded, but I'm really happy that exploreshaifali took the initiative and put this topic on the table
21:14:50 <vkmc> hi exploreshaifali!
21:14:54 <exploreshaifali> BP is also there, I am searching its link
21:15:00 <vkmc> sweet
21:15:19 <exploreshaifali> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/zaqar-ui
21:15:25 <vkmc> any feedback about those mockups will be welcome, please share your thoughts on the thread whenever you have a moment to check those out
21:15:34 <vkmc> I myself have that in my todo list as well :)
21:16:17 <vkmc> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/zaqar-ui
21:16:39 <vkmc> the next step exploreshaifali, would be to write an spec for Zaqar UI and submit it for review
21:16:47 <exploreshaifali> I will add stuff like what are pools and flavors but also I need some pointers what to add in "Testing" part
21:16:48 <vkmc> #action exploreshaifali write an spec for Zaqar UI
21:17:00 <vkmc> oh cool
21:17:21 <vkmc> makes sense
21:17:45 <vkmc> probably we will need to consider adding some tests in the Horizon side
21:17:46 <exploreshaifali> this will be spec for horizon
21:18:09 <exploreshaifali> and horizon only works on BP, they don't have spec like thing
21:18:11 <vkmc> I think it would make more sense to have it in the Zaqar side
21:18:18 <vkmc> so we can keep track of changes
21:18:27 <exploreshaifali> sure sure, I am happy to do that!
21:18:55 <exploreshaifali> so first I will complete BP and than will start with zaqar spec
21:18:57 <vkmc> and we also make clear the milestone we expect to have that feature and who will be working on that
21:19:32 <vkmc> so... you write the spec and to link the bp to it
21:19:51 <exploreshaifali> okay, Thanks :)
21:19:52 <vkmc> does that make sense?
21:19:56 <exploreshaifali> yes
21:20:17 <vkmc> ok awesome
21:20:43 <vkmc> any other comments on this? someone interested in giving exploreshaifali a hand? I dunno if she needs a hand, but I know its a big change so :)
21:21:33 <vkmc> no? ok, we will discuss this again for sure so we can revisit
21:21:35 <exploreshaifali> yes, it will be great to have a hand
21:21:43 <exploreshaifali> no problem :)
21:21:47 <vkmc> ok, let's move to another topic
21:21:56 <vkmc> *thanks a lot* exploreshaifali for working on this
21:21:57 <vkmc> :D
21:22:06 <vkmc> #topic Zaqar Docs
21:22:10 <exploreshaifali> Thanks You guys :)
21:22:33 <vkmc> this has been a recurrent topic in our meetings... we have to improve docs
21:22:49 <vkmc> a few weeks ago we had a docs day
21:22:55 <vkmc> but everybody was busy because of the freeze
21:23:00 <Eva-i> I have some thoughts about docs
21:23:08 <vkmc> and we couldn't have as many improvements as we would wish
21:23:21 <vkmc> and yes, I was going to tackle that Eva-i
21:23:51 <Eva-i> let me post a paste
21:24:04 <vkmc> Eva-i is an Outreachy applicant and she has been working on Zaqar for a couple of days already... and I'm happy to say that she already have some feedback for us regarding this
21:24:12 <vkmc> sure, floor is yours Eva-i
21:24:35 <Eva-i> It's a bit long though: http://paste.openstack.org/show/476066/
21:24:44 <exploreshaifali> Eva-i, good to know that! and welcome :)
21:24:56 <vkmc> its ok Eva-i, thanks for writing it down
21:24:57 <Eva-i> exploreshaifali: thank you, you're doing good job too
21:25:02 <vkmc> #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/476066/
21:25:13 <exploreshaifali> thanks!
21:25:22 * vkmc reads the paste
21:26:13 <vkmc> dry violations... totally agree
21:26:50 <vkmc> and other details... as well
21:27:20 <Eva-i> Maybe we should keep zaqar development docs in one place and just provide links to it from other resources
21:27:28 <Eva-i> *to them
21:27:49 <vkmc> yeah... we probably need to devote a couple of days only to improve docs
21:28:05 <vkmc> as you mentioned earlier, the docs are there but they are spread in different locations
21:28:16 <vkmc> and its generally a blocker for any newcomer trying to contribute to the project
21:28:33 <vkmc> also, I'd like to add that there is no documentation whatsoever about important features like pools and flavors
21:29:07 <jasondotstar> how about setting up a dev environment? i don't know if that's covered anywhere
21:29:18 <Eva-i> Maybe we should keep development docs in docs.openstack.org.
21:29:18 <Eva-i> And usage docs in wiki.
21:29:21 <vkmc> good question
21:29:25 <vkmc> jasondotstar, ^
21:29:33 <vkmc> that was initially covered in the readme in the repo
21:29:38 <Eva-i> jasondotstar: it's located here http://docs.openstack.org/developer/zaqar/development-environment.html
21:29:49 <jasondotstar> Eva-i: thx
21:30:06 <vkmc> I think the wiki page is overloaded with information
21:30:27 <vkmc> its hard to find things
21:30:29 <Eva-i> vkmc: main wiki page?
21:30:49 <vkmc> #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zaqar
21:31:20 <vkmc> Eva-i, ^
21:31:50 <exploreshaifali> I think rather keeping usage and development docs separate, better to keep all information at one place and referring them from other
21:32:03 <vkmc> yeah
21:32:19 <exploreshaifali> and no doubt docs will be better because they are version controlled
21:32:25 <exploreshaifali> we will have history as well
21:32:37 <vkmc> it's a good point exploreshaifali
21:32:46 <exploreshaifali> :)
21:33:03 <vkmc> well, so we have some defined things to do
21:33:20 <Eva-i> Alright, where we should keep information? I'm new to OpenStack and I don't really know difference between wiki* and docs*.
21:33:33 <vkmc> Eva-i, that makes sense
21:33:41 <vkmc> sorry if I'm going to fast heh
21:34:20 <vkmc> so this docs http://docs.openstack.org/developer/zaqar/ live in our repo
21:34:31 <vkmc> while the docs in the wiki doesn't
21:34:31 <exploreshaifali> they come from https://github.com/openstack/zaqar/tree/master/doc
21:34:36 <vkmc> exactly yes
21:34:44 <vkmc> those docs are generated with Sphinx
21:35:37 <vkmc> I'd say that we make everything possible to place the docs regarding how to deploy Zaqar, API description, features description in our developers guide
21:35:43 <vkmc> and we use the wiki for "extra" information
21:36:06 <exploreshaifali> okay.
21:36:25 <Eva-i> I like the idea of exploreshaifali to have version controlled docs in one place
21:36:26 <exploreshaifali> more better
21:36:28 <vkmc> let's do the following... let's organize all our concerns about docs in this etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-mitaka-docs
21:36:49 <exploreshaifali> great thought vkmc :)
21:37:38 <vkmc> we probably can trace all the docs we have right now
21:37:48 <Eva-i> okay
21:38:05 <vkmc> and try to sketch a new organization of docs there
21:38:25 <vkmc> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-mitaka-docs
21:38:51 <Eva-i> vkmc: what is "extra information" for you?
21:39:00 <vkmc> Eva-i, it's a good question
21:39:14 <vkmc> for instance, information related to the meetings
21:39:34 <vkmc> we have this subwiki with links to the past meetings and the meeting agenda for the next meeting, for instance
21:39:40 <vkmc> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zaqar
21:39:58 <vkmc> but that is not linked in the main wiki for Zaqar
21:40:06 <vkmc> at least, not at first sight
21:40:43 <vkmc> also, links to past Zaqar presentations or blog posts
21:40:58 <vkmc> all that information that is useful somehow, but certainly not something that you would include in a developers docs
21:41:46 <Eva-i> I'm thinking...
21:41:55 <exploreshaifali> vkmc, we should think for zaqarclient doc
21:42:02 <vkmc> oh as well... zaqarclient
21:42:31 <vkmc> and that reminds me: Zaqar use cases, Zaqar benchmarks
21:42:33 <vkmc> that is all for the wiki
21:42:42 <exploreshaifali> let me know if something I can help with
21:42:49 <vkmc> sure exploreshaifali
21:43:04 <vkmc> you can already help with putting in the etherpad what you think is wrong in the Zaqar docs right now
21:43:10 <vkmc> and we can start filing bugs and fixing them
21:43:23 <exploreshaifali> sure sure
21:43:44 <vkmc> cool, we can keep discussing this next week
21:44:02 <vkmc> I'll add an action item for myself... to start checking the docs we have now and reorganize things
21:44:12 <vkmc> #action vkmc start checking the docs we have now and reorganize things
21:44:37 <vkmc> (hope I'm handling using the tag correctly)
21:44:43 <Eva-i> Lets write down in etherpad all possible article types and sort them to wiki categories
21:44:49 <vkmc> any other comment on this topic?
21:44:51 <vkmc> Eva-i++
21:45:02 <vkmc> (that means I support your comment)
21:45:31 <vkmc> ok, let's move on to another topic
21:45:44 <vkmc> #topic OpenStack Summit Design Sessions
21:46:04 <vkmc> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Mitaka-Zaqar
21:46:24 <vkmc> we have three proposed fishbowls/working sessions for the next summit
21:47:02 <vkmc> if you are attending to the summit, I encourage that you propose a session for the design session
21:47:32 <vkmc> for instance, this details we have been chatting about docs can be really fun to tackle in a working session
21:48:09 <vkmc> we have new contributors to Zaqar, so maybe this is your first time participating in something like this and it can be scary at first
21:48:55 <vkmc> but... if you have an idea, propose it, and I'd love to help you leading the session to discuss that idea
21:49:00 * njohnston is a newb finds it a touch intimidating
21:49:11 <vkmc> and I know flwang and flaper87 are willing to do the same for you
21:49:19 <vkmc> njohnston, I knew!
21:49:20 <vkmc> haha
21:49:44 <exploreshaifali> so should I start one for Zaqar UI?
21:49:48 <vkmc> it creeped the hell out of me the first time I drove a session like that
21:49:54 <vkmc> but... its really useful
21:50:01 <vkmc> exploreshaifali, that's a great idea
21:50:08 <exploreshaifali> not sure if it falls under horizon
21:50:11 <vkmc> we can invite some people from UX to give us their opinions
21:50:28 <vkmc> considering how the big tent model works, I'd say it falls under Zaqar
21:50:33 <exploreshaifali> yes, will be great
21:51:03 <exploreshaifali> also we can include one session for doc, it time permits
21:51:17 <vkmc> well, anyhow... just a reminder that we still have some slots available and that we are really interested on hearing your ideas to improve Zaqar
21:51:24 <vkmc> exploreshaifali, sounds great
21:52:14 <exploreshaifali> cool, I am adding two new sessions, for docs and UI
21:52:21 <vkmc> great, thanks exploreshaifali
21:52:27 <exploreshaifali> np :)
21:52:35 <vkmc> ok... last but not least
21:52:42 <vkmc> #topic Open Discussion
21:53:03 <exploreshaifali> I have one, zaqar cli implementation
21:53:08 <vkmc> sure, shoot!
21:53:30 <exploreshaifali> as "flavor" term is overloaded in openstack one for nova and one for Zaqar
21:53:51 <exploreshaifali> we came up with solution of adding "message" before each and every command
21:54:12 <vkmc> something like... openstack message flavor list
21:54:26 <vkmc> for the flavor listing endpoint?
21:54:28 <exploreshaifali> keeping old command(without message) working with a warning message
21:54:30 <exploreshaifali> vkmc, yes
21:54:41 <exploreshaifali> this will be for all commands,not only for flavor
21:55:25 <exploreshaifali> so on Mailing list, people liked this idea
21:55:26 <vkmc> hmm, seems like an overkill
21:55:37 <vkmc> yeah, I was looking for that thread
21:55:57 <exploreshaifali> but I got one more comment to add "server" specifically for flavor command
21:56:04 <exploreshaifali> not sure if we need that or not
21:56:25 <njohnston> I see the aesthetic positives of fully namespacing all zaqar CLI commands, but I wonder if it helps or hinders usability.
21:56:27 <vkmc> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076269.html
21:57:08 <vkmc> yeah... I have the same feeling
21:57:18 <vkmc> like... I'm imagining how would the post message function would look like
21:57:25 <vkmc> openstack message message post
21:57:34 <njohnston> ^ +1
21:57:39 <exploreshaifali> yes
21:58:29 <vkmc> and can you use a hyphenated word?
21:58:32 <vkmc> like
21:58:32 <exploreshaifali> so I will post same on ML and let see what other have to say for this?
21:58:40 <vkmc> openstack pool-flavor create
21:58:42 <vkmc> something like that
21:59:00 <vkmc> doesn't sound very nice but... you don't need to deprecate all other endpoints in order to add this one
21:59:50 <exploreshaifali> I did gave this option as well while first discussion on IRC, that time people liked message more
21:59:51 <vkmc> ok, we have one minute left
21:59:59 <vkmc> let's continue this in the ML or in -zaqar channel :)
22:00:11 <exploreshaifali> okay
22:00:18 <vkmc> thanks everybody for joining today's meeting
22:00:24 <vkmc> great stuff discussed today!
22:00:29 <exploreshaifali> Thanks!
22:00:33 <vkmc> #endmeeting