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| ramishra | stevebaker: Hello Steve | 01:24 |
|---|---|---|
| stevebaker | ramishra: hai | 01:25 |
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| ramishra | stevebaker:Do you have a min or two look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90336/? Also, I have fixed the your review comments for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82853/, please have a look when u have time | 01:26 |
| stevebaker | sure, I'll take a look | 01:27 |
| ramishra | stevebaker: it's a bug, but there is 'no eq status' to check from nova when delete fails.. I have changed it as it's also not checked in OS::Nova::Server resource | 01:30 |
| ramishra | stevebaker: Normally delete would not fail..that's my assumption.. | 01:30 |
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| tiantian | Hi all, would you please to review/approve my patch, it's too long:) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80209/ Thanks very much. | 01:45 |
| stevebaker | wow, that is a lot of +1s | 01:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fetch all db resources in one query https://review.openstack.org/90002 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Refactor DB resource fetching from Resource to Stack https://review.openstack.org/90000 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Eager-load db resources from Stack https://review.openstack.org/90624 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: resource_get_all_by_stack returns a dict https://review.openstack.org/90001 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Eager-load Stack.raw_template for Stack.load https://review.openstack.org/90623 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fetch RawTemplate from Stack, not a query https://review.openstack.org/90622 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Prefetch data in resource_get_by_name_and_stack https://review.openstack.org/89735 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Do not query database for every metadata_get https://review.openstack.org/89737 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Use resource methods for metadata get/set https://review.openstack.org/89736 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Do not initialise stack_user password https://review.openstack.org/89999 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: An IO optimised method for accessing resource data https://review.openstack.org/88498 | 01:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Port all resources to new resource data methods https://review.openstack.org/88499 | 01:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Make sure NetworkInterfaces and SubnetId updatable https://review.openstack.org/80209 | 03:55 |
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| cmyster | morning btw | 03:59 |
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| mattoliverau | morning cmyster | 04:03 |
| cmyster | Sup | 04:03 |
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| mattoliverau | not much :) | 04:16 |
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| mattoliverau | But a reminder to everyone that at 1600 UTC today (Monday) gerrit will be updated, so submitting patches wont be possible at this time, also you'll have to update your known_hosts file as the the gerrit SSH fingerprint will change. See: http://is.gd/56dY5O for further details. | 04:20 |
| mattoliverau | The infra environment will probably be effected for a few hours. | 04:21 |
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| stevebaker | yay, new shiny | 04:21 |
| sdake_ | wheres the shinies | 04:22 |
| sdake_ | yo | 04:22 |
| stevebaker | gerrit upgrade | 04:22 |
| sdake_ | does ti prioritize reviews properly? :-) | 04:22 |
| * sdake_ #1 wish list item | 04:22 | |
| stevebaker | looks like there is a bunch of new dashboard stuff | 04:22 |
| mattoliverau | yeah, and the way WIP will change etc.. but good to get a nice shiny update :) | 04:23 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, can't see anything new | 04:23 |
| cmyster | so thats why it was acting silly yesterday... must have been under updating | 04:23 |
| cmyster | (silly=slow) | 04:23 |
| stevebaker | it hasn't happend yet | 04:23 |
| sdake_ | i dont see any new magic | 04:23 |
| cmyster | oh | 04:23 |
| cmyster | I havn't looked at it but yesterday was a strange day for it | 04:24 |
| mattoliverau | There will be some cherry picking magic apparently | 04:24 |
| sdake_ | hmm must be on the ml - just got back from drinking profusley | 04:25 |
| sdake_ | try not to operate my email client under the influence - can be dangerous :) | 04:25 |
| cmyster | sdake_: never fly and work at the same time ;) | 04:25 |
| sdake_ | i wouldn't put alcohol in the kite category | 04:26 |
| cmyster | also its why I have a default to: in mutt called 'xxx' this way a mail is never sent cause there is no such thing as xxx. I can send it only after spell check and removing xxx | 04:26 |
| cmyster | sdake_: I guess it depends on the alcohol :) | 04:27 |
| sdake_ | looks like cnn rolled out some new shinies too | 04:30 |
| sdake_ | that time of the year | 04:30 |
| cmyster | fiscal year ended... | 04:30 |
| sdake_ | http://arabic.cnn.com/?hpt=ed_Arabic | 04:30 |
| sdake_ | what is the world coming to | 04:30 |
| cmyster | brb with MOAR coffee | 04:31 |
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| sdake_ | cmyster http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/24/coffee-may-reduce-risk-for-type-2-diabetes/?hpt=hp_bn13 | 04:32 |
| sdake_ | enjoy ;-) | 04:32 |
| sdake_ | i had a manager once - cat cranked through 6 pots of coffee a day | 04:33 |
| sdake_ | i'm not even sure how that wouldn't kill you | 04:34 |
| mattoliverau | maybe it was decaffinated :P | 04:35 |
| sdake_ | definatley was the real deal | 04:35 |
| sdake_ | he used to sit over my shoulder and watch me code | 04:35 |
| sdake_ | and the other guys too | 04:35 |
| sdake_ | i'm like "dont you have something better to do?" | 04:36 |
| sdake_ | once my office made handed him his keyboard | 04:36 |
| sdake_ | that got him out of our offices for a couple weeks | 04:36 |
| sdake_ | made/mates | 04:36 |
| sdake_ | he used to walk aorund with a phone on his hip | 04:37 |
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| mattoliverau | lol, maybe he had too much caffine to sit still :P | 04:38 |
| sdake_ | clearly somehting was up:) | 04:38 |
| mattoliverau | ever see him blink? ;P | 04:38 |
| sdake_ | on that note 10pm here i'm ptfoing | 04:38 |
| sdake_ | mattoliverau i'm not sure, I used to cause all kinds of chaos in that business - for example this was where openais was spawned | 04:39 |
| mattoliverau | haha | 04:39 |
| sdake_ | we didn't have a strong partnership | 04:39 |
| sdake_ | oh well live and learn | 04:39 |
| sdake_ | night :) | 04:39 |
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| mattoliverau | Night :) | 04:40 |
| cmyster | yes coffee is good for you. black coffee. 5 cups a day is even better at older age, reduces risk that your brain will start acting old | 04:51 |
| cmyster | (old folk diseases) | 04:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fetch all db resources in one query https://review.openstack.org/90002 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Refactor DB resource fetching from Resource to Stack https://review.openstack.org/90000 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Eager-load db resources from Stack https://review.openstack.org/90624 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: resource_get_all_by_stack returns a dict https://review.openstack.org/90001 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Eager-load Stack.raw_template for Stack.load https://review.openstack.org/90623 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fetch RawTemplate from Stack, not a query https://review.openstack.org/90622 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Prefetch data in resource_get_by_name_and_stack https://review.openstack.org/89735 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Do not query database for every metadata_get https://review.openstack.org/89737 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Use resource methods for metadata get/set https://review.openstack.org/89736 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Do not initialise stack_user password https://review.openstack.org/89999 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: An IO optimised method for accessing resource data https://review.openstack.org/88498 | 05:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat: Port all resources to new resource data methods https://review.openstack.org/88499 | 05:02 |
| cmyster | rock on stevebaker | 05:04 |
| stevebaker | that is quite a series now | 05:04 |
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| sdake_ | see ma, no mail client -> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritUpgrade | 05:05 |
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| sdake_ | ok srsly time to ptfo night all | 05:05 |
| cmyster | nn sdake_ | 05:06 |
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| skraynev | Morning all | 05:34 |
| cmyster | morning | 05:34 |
| mattoliverau | morning skraynev | 05:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed a change to openstack/heat: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/89750 | 06:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Adding validation algorithm for get attr functions https://review.openstack.org/82488 | 07:23 |
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| pas-ha | morning | 07:30 |
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| cmyster | morning | 07:32 |
| shardy_afk | morning all | 07:38 |
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| cmyster | morning | 07:40 |
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| mattoliverau | Morning shardy | 07:48 |
| mattoliverau | Anyway, I think I will call it a day. Have a great day to those on the other side of the world, good night to the rest :) | 07:51 |
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| cmyster | nn mattoliverau | 07:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zhang Yang proposed a change to openstack/heat: Don't allow updates when nested stack is in-progress https://review.openstack.org/90325 | 08:09 |
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| tiantian | Hi all: I have 2 bps about add glanceclient to heat and add glance image resource. Would you please give me some suggestions. Add the glanceclient: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90530/ | 08:12 |
| DaveJ__ | Hi guys, looking for some suggestions here - I'd like to create a autoscaling group that scales up/down at a particular time of the day - i.e. say I know peak hours are between 7pm - 10pm. I can't see a way to do it currently. If I created a custom metric in ceilometer and published the time to it, I could use that, but it seems like overkill. Would it be | 08:13 |
| DaveJ__ | worth while adding a timebased alarm in heat ? | 08:13 |
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| cmyster | there is an interesting blueprint here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ceilometer/blueprints/alarm-over-time | 08:21 |
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| DaveJ__ | cmyster: I saw that - it didn't quiet look like what I wanted, as it seems to rely on the state of another alarm. Although I could probably fudge that other alarm state | 08:29 |
| cmyster | yes, send alarm from rula A only at times allowed in rule B of sorts | 08:30 |
| cmyster | IMO IDK if heat is the place for special alerts... want nifty alerts? get ceilometer to work with heat... | 08:31 |
| DaveJ__ | cmyster: I think that's fair enough. I'll see if I can come up with something pretty simple in ceilometer that would do the trick. | 08:37 |
| cmyster | DaveJ__: would love to see the outcome :) | 08:37 |
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| shardy | DaveJ__: One way to do it would be just have a cron job which hits the ScalingPolicy URL | 09:22 |
| shardy | DaveJ__: but in general we definitely don't want any more periodic alarm stuff in Heat, we're actively trying to purge any periodic tasks so your requirement should probably be solved either via ceilometer or possibly mistral | 09:23 |
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| DaveJ__ | shardy: Thanks for confirming. Yes I think for the short term cron would do the job, although ultimately I want to get it integrated into the 'eco' system. | 09:25 |
| shardy | DaveJ__: Yeah I think the long term solution for such use-cases is not yet clear, but my (limited) understanding of mistral suggests that may be a place to start looking: | 09:26 |
| shardy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral/Cloud_Cron_details | 09:26 |
| DaveJ__ | shardy: I didn't know about mistral. Is there plans to expose mistral resources in heat ? | 09:26 |
| DaveJ__ | It looks like it would do exactly what I need. | 09:27 |
| shardy | DaveJ__: We'd certainly be happy to have them, I'm not sure if anyone is actively working on them though | 09:27 |
| DaveJ__ | shardy: Cool - I'll see where I get to. If I could contribute something I will, but it depends if I can get some time to work on it. | 09:28 |
| shardy | DaveJ__: I have a vague memory of asalkeld looking into it, but I may be wrong | 09:29 |
| * asalkeld wakes up | 09:30 | |
| shardy | Hey asalkeld! | 09:30 |
| shardy | Did you look into a mistral heat resource at one point, or am I mistaken? | 09:30 |
| asalkeld | no, I am going to be using mistral soon but not related to heat | 09:30 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Ok, cool | 09:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Allow empty sections in the yaml templates https://review.openstack.org/90058 | 11:14 |
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| skraynev | shardy: hey. Could you clarify purpose of using resource_id_set. I just confused by two things: 1. why do some resources execute resource_id_set(None) in handle_delete, but others does not do it. 2. according to code of this function we should pass instance with attribute id, but I have met places where used constructions like resource_id_set(server.id) or resource_id_set(subnet['id']). I am not sure, that all of them have id attribute. | 11:43 |
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| shardy | skraynev: Hi, AFAIK the reason for resource_id_set(None) is to minimise the opportunity for races on resource delete, e.g if an attribute reference is resolved, because most _resolve_attribute functions check the resource_id before trying to get details for the underlying resource | 12:10 |
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| shardy | skraynev: I remember some discussion of this previously, and IIRC the decision was that it's not really needed, because we're about to destroy() the resource, but I can't remember all the details tbh | 12:11 |
| skraynev | shardy: ok, so it's not so important and is not necessary. | 12:12 |
| skraynev | shardy: and what about second point? | 12:12 |
| shardy | skraynev: probably, to me it seems safer to just set it to None as soon as we know the underlying resource is gone, but IIRC there were arguments to the contrary before | 12:13 |
| shardy | there was a review somewhere, but I can't find it atm | 12:13 |
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| skraynev | shardy: may be some others participants remember? :) | 12:14 |
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| shardy | skraynev: on the second point, the column is called nova_instance, but it's really any ID mapping the resource object/record to the underlying service, so it is generally thing.id or thing['id'] | 12:15 |
| shardy | many of the python clients allow you to access the id by attribute or key (same for any key in the returned body) | 12:15 |
| shardy | so it doesn't really matter which format is used | 12:16 |
| skraynev | shardy: gotcha. | 12:16 |
| skraynev | thanks you very match shardy ;) | 12:17 |
| shardy | skraynev: np | 12:18 |
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| ramishra | pas-ha: Hello, can you pl. respond to my reply for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90336/ or remove your -1. | 12:26 |
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| sorantis | skraynev, can you have a look at this example? http://pastebin.com/5qNBL4kH I’m thinking to include this one in the documentation | 12:32 |
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| skraynev | sorantis: looks ok, but I think that will be enough demonstrate only resource section (without parameters and outputs) | 12:35 |
| sorantis | fair enough, will change it | 12:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a Nova Flavor resource. https://review.openstack.org/90029 | 12:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a Nova Flavor resource. https://review.openstack.org/90029 | 13:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a Nova Flavor resource. https://review.openstack.org/90029 | 13:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Allow empty sections in the yaml templates https://review.openstack.org/90058 | 13:27 |
| therve | shardy, Hi, could you re-review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82881/ ? It could approved but failed to merge | 13:27 |
| therve | s/could/got | 13:27 |
| shardy | therve: sure, sorry bit behind on reviews atm | 13:28 |
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| therve | shardy, No worries, I am too :) | 13:30 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Hardy proposed a change to openstack/heat: tests remove stack_delete_after decorator https://review.openstack.org/90415 | 13:56 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Hardy proposed a change to openstack/heat: tests remove wr_delete_after decorator https://review.openstack.org/90414 | 13:56 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Hardy proposed a change to openstack/heat: tests make dummy db setup/reset consistent https://review.openstack.org/90413 | 13:56 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:56 |
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| shardy | Any reviews on those would be good, they touch many tests so I'd like to avoid too many painful rebases if possible ;) | 13:57 |
| shardy | Hi Qiming | 13:57 |
| Qiming | currently, I can delete a nova server without having Heat to notice it; somehow, we can subscribe to some events casted from nova | 13:58 |
| Qiming | hi, shardy | 13:58 |
| Qiming | I am not sure this is against Heat's design philosophy? | 13:58 |
| shardy | Qiming: currently heat has no way of syncing DB state with out-of-band state changes or deletion | 14:00 |
| shardy | Qiming: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/stack-check | 14:00 |
| shardy | there are patches for that which aim to enable such a sync to be possible | 14:00 |
| Qiming | shardy: you mean a manual sync, or an auto-sync in the background, through watch_rules ? | 14:01 |
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| shardy | An event driven approach might be good too, but in general the expectation is that out-of-band deletion of stack resources will be strongly discouraged ;) | 14:01 |
| shardy | Qiming: a manual sync | 14:01 |
| shardy | Qiming: as a first step towards enabling self-healing, e.g convergence by repairing or replacing broken resources | 14:01 |
| Qiming | shardy: I understand that I should not delete the instance | 14:01 |
| Qiming | however, the instance may disappear itself for other reasons ... :) | 14:02 |
| shardy | Qiming: so you probably need a ceilometer alarm which alerts if it dissapears | 14:02 |
| jdob | has there been any discussion about adding more metadata-like elements to a template? in addition to description, something like Name or Tags? | 14:02 |
| shardy | then you can have a group of resources e.g in an AutoScalingGroup and keep a minimum number in-service at any time | 14:03 |
| Qiming | shardy, anyway, I feel a strong need to have a message consumer in the engine, subscribe to some events in the world. | 14:03 |
| shardy | jdob: Yes, I thin there's a recent thread on that topic on openstack-dev | 14:03 |
| jdob | my rationale is for discovery, so given a bunch of files being able to show the user a display name for what the template is as a whole | 14:03 |
| shardy | s/thin/think | 14:03 |
| jdob | shardy: cool, i'll check the archives, thanks | 14:04 |
| Qiming | I just checked the ceilometer code, it is a little bit dirty. they directly talked to libvirt, bypassing nova | 14:04 |
| Qiming | shardy: they may have other logics as well, maybe I just missed them. | 14:05 |
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| Qiming | shardy: ceilometer is about metering, if I'm understanding it correctly. It is not tasked to send you an accurate event which instance disappeared. | 14:06 |
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| shardy | Qiming: ceilometer is about metrics, and it provides the facility to set up alarms | 14:08 |
| shardy | it's not only about metering anymore | 14:08 |
| shardy | https://github.com/openstack/heat-templates/blob/master/cfn/F17/WordPress_Single_Instance_With_IHA.template | 14:08 |
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| * IgorYozhikov is now away: went away... | 14:09 | |
| Qiming | umh, I will try dig more from the ceilometer side and see if such an alarm is possible | 14:10 |
| shardy | Qiming: I think you just dropped out then: | 14:10 |
| shardy | https://github.com/openstack/heat-templates/blob/master/cfn/F17/WordPress_Single_Instance_With_IHA.template | 14:10 |
| shardy | That's an example of setting up a heartbeat alarm which takes action if an instance "dissapears" | 14:10 |
| shardy | I'm not necessarily saying that a message/notification based solution is invalid, just drawing your attention to what already exists | 14:11 |
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| shardy | IMO alarm evaluation should exist in ceilometer, not heat | 14:12 |
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| Qiming_ | shardy: sorry I just got disconnected | 14:12 |
| Qiming_ | I agree with you that evaluation is not Heat's job | 14:12 |
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| Qiming_ | I will try dig more from the ceilometer side and see if such an alarm (instance hang/shutoff/deleted) is possible | 14:13 |
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| shardy | Qiming_: Ok, PM'd you a paste of the scrollback | 14:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Dimitri Mazmanov proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a Nova Flavor resource. https://review.openstack.org/90029 | 14:14 |
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| Qiming_ | shardy: thank you. | 14:14 |
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| Qiming_ | shardy: I am so ignorant to the existing samples. I only noticed the WordPress_Single_Instance_With_HA.yaml, where the restart was originated from inside an instance. | 14:17 |
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| sdake_ | morning | 14:24 |
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| shardy | jdob: This was the thread I was thinking of: | 14:29 |
| shardy | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/033220.html | 14:29 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit downtime for upgrade begins in 90 minutes. See: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritUpgrade | 14:30 | |
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| tspatzier | oh no, gerrit will be done .. just when I wanted to work on my review backlog :-/ | 14:31 |
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| tspatzier | s/done/down | 14:31 |
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| shardy | sdague: Hi, when you get a moment I'd appreciate feedback on the comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90143/ | 14:32 |
| shardy | sdague: I'm happy to refactor into a scenario test but wanted to confirm that is the right course before starting | 14:33 |
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| jdob | shardy: that's the one I found too. i still would like to see something like display name, but i'll collect my thoughts better as to why and send an email | 15:01 |
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| therve | sdake, Hey! Are you progressing on the oslo,messaging patch? | 15:22 |
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| therve | sdake_, I guess I talked to your doppelganger | 15:46 |
| sdake_ | therve huh | 15:47 |
| therve | sdake_, I asked: Hey! Are you progressing on the oslo,messaging patch? | 15:47 |
| sdake_ | no but you have my word it wil be in by j1 | 15:48 |
| sdake_ | if not you can fire me from core ;) | 15:48 |
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| therve | OK cool :) | 15:49 |
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| shardy | sdake_: that is a very bold statement :D | 15:51 |
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| sdake_ | work is almost done | 15:51 |
| sdake_ | justneeds a rebase and 5-10 test caess fixed | 15:51 |
| sdake_ | the rebase wil take days im sure | 15:51 |
| sdake_ | i just dont have time atm prior to summit to block out time on my calendar to focus on it | 15:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Vijendar Komalla proposed a change to openstack/heat: Support proxying Heat API by using x-forwarded-for header https://review.openstack.org/75968 | 16:26 |
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| SushilKM | Please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89796/ | 16:38 |
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| SpamapS | shardy: thanks for your reply on bug 1313003 ... I've started a thread on the ML to discuss potentially improving keystone domains | 17:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1313003 in heat "stack_user_domain should accept a domain name" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313003 | 17:52 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: np, I'll try to do some testing later to confirm if the id/name permission issue still exists | 17:55 |
| shardy | certainly I ran into that issue for both domains and projects at one point but I've not tried with names since icehouse was declared final | 17:55 |
| therve | Note that it's the same problem with users | 17:57 |
| SpamapS | shardy: I feel like we've driven a lot of improvement into Keystone already. Moar better is gooder. :) | 17:57 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: agreed, happy to help with any potential improvements :) | 18:02 |
| shardy | SpamapS: I just did what seemed least likely to give users obscure permission denied errors :) | 18:02 |
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| SpamapS | shardy: right, IMO if you have access to the domain itself, you shouldn't need listing privileges. | 18:04 |
| SpamapS | shardy: and in basically all cases I think names should be able to be substituted where ids are consumed. It makes _everything_ more clear for users/admins/etc | 18:04 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: I do basically agree, but note that using names does in some cases require providing additional data to fully qualify the request | 18:09 |
| shardy | e.g you have to provide the domain and project name, not just the project ID, because project names aren't globally unique | 18:09 |
| shardy | Not a big deal for users, but marginally less convenient when the thing calling is another service which needs to store the data | 18:10 |
| SpamapS | the "not globally unique" thing is also a huge mistake IMO | 18:11 |
| SpamapS | It makes everything confusing | 18:11 |
| shardy | well the ID's are unique, but you can't enforce name uniqueness accross domains, because they're supposed to be completely separate | 18:11 |
| SpamapS | oh right so it's a hierarchy | 18:11 |
| shardy | Yeah | 18:11 |
| SpamapS | so the ID is just a shortcut. THe actual name is domain.project then | 18:12 |
| SpamapS | that's how I'd do it anyway :-P | 18:12 |
| SpamapS | so a tenant can have multiple domains, and a domain can have multiple projects? | 18:12 |
| shardy | Yeah I don't disagree :) | 18:12 |
| SpamapS | Why don't people jus say "Yeah I agree" ? | 18:12 |
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| SpamapS | The human subconscious can't actually "don't" anything. So subconsciously, you hear "I disagree" | 18:13 |
| SpamapS | Which is confusing, because consciously, You seem to agree. :) | 18:14 |
| * SpamapS probably thinks too much about words | 18:14 | |
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| shardy | It's a way of saying I'm somewhat in agreement with you but mildly less so than saying woop SpamapS I *agree* with everything you just said | 18:14 |
| shardy | Or that's the way I've always interpreted that phrase | 18:15 |
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| shardy | language is confusing sometimes :) | 18:15 |
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| SpamapS | shardy: Actually it is confusing by design IMO. :) | 18:15 |
| SpamapS | shardy: otherwise we wouldn't need whiteboards. | 18:16 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: I wasn't sure if you meant keystone or human language then :D | 18:16 |
| therve | You always feel better about a security component when you don't understand it, right? :) | 18:18 |
| shardy | lol :) | 18:18 |
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| SpamapS | shardy: Oh the irony of you being confused whether I was saying language was confusing by design, or Keystone was confusing by design. | 18:22 |
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| *** ChanServ changes topic to "support @ https://ask.openstack.org | developer wiki @ https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat | development @ https://launchpad.net/heat | logged @ http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23heat/" | 19:29 | |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit upgrade to 2.8 complete. See: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritUpgrade Some cleanup tasks still ongoing; join #openstack-infra if you have any questions. | 19:29 | |
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| radix | SpamapS: man, negatives are an awesome subtlety of English | 19:33 |
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| SpamapS | radix: In Czech, which I'm learning right now, you can negate almost every word in a sentence and it is just counted as one negation. | 19:49 |
| radix | heh, cool | 19:50 |
| radix | so are extra negatives thrown in for emphasis? | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | So you can say something like "No I don't want no pie no today no time. | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | radix: yeah | 19:50 |
| radix | nice :) | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | radix: Czech speakers struggle with that as they learn English because in Czech you just negate when you think of negation. | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | The funny thing about negation in general is that subconsciously you _cannot_ negate. | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | It is entirely a conscious concept. | 19:51 |
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| SpamapS | Because your subconscious is an alternate reality engine, so it first has to think of what you say and run it. Don't cry ... subconscious thinks of crying, conscious mind actively avoids the result of that. | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | So "I don't disagree" requires your subconscious mind to imagine "I disagree" and then your conscious mind has to feed new versions of your stance that are the opposite of that. | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | shardy: sorry to pick on you there. It's a reflex action to even mention it and I try very hard to suppress that reflex. ;) | 19:53 |
| radix | but it does make a fine, conscious point | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | radix: It forces the receiver of the comment to consider many options. I think it is popular because it distracts the speaker long enough for you to make your point. | 19:54 |
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| SpamapS | And it distracts me because I have to decide NOT to tell them all of this in addition to imagining threads of thinking they might take in which they don't disagree. | 19:55 |
| radix | hmm, I would say it's a matter of quantitative difference | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | "Perhaps they agree fully but are being politically sensitive to others. Perhaps they are lying and the don't agree at all. Perhaps they have no idea what I just said and need time to think. Perhaps they are mocking me." | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | The point is, I use other phrases, such as "I agree with that on principle, but I would challenge some of the details." or "I do not have a well formed opinion on that yet." | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | Which of course also requires more discipline on my part... which makes me more tired and less able to participate in many many conversations. :-P | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | ok done waxing physchologically today | 19:57 |
| * SpamapS needs to finish some Indian visa paperwork. | 19:57 | |
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| shardy | Hmm, gerrit verified and reviewed columns have switched, that is confusing :( | 20:21 |
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| stevebaker | morning | 20:41 |
| stevebaker | any chance we could push this over the line? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79758/11 | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | (and the puppet one after it) | 20:42 |
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| shardy | Hi stevebaker, looking | 20:44 |
| sdake | shardy can you package review https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092149 | 20:45 |
| uvirtbot | sdake: Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.redhat.com: HTTP Error 404: Not Found | 20:45 |
| shardy | sdake: sure I can take it and look at it in the morning if that's OK? | 20:47 |
| sdake | morning is great - try to wrap up by this week if possible ta :) | 20:47 |
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| sdake | shardy but go ahead and take now - so someone else slower doesn't grab ahold of it :) | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | sdake morning sucks :( | 20:48 |
| sdake | tell me about it, i'm up at 7am every day in my new job | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | sdake new job? | 20:48 |
| sdake | linkedin has the details | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | aaa meeting man | 20:49 |
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| sdake | AA it should be :) | 20:49 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: approved, but jenkins says needs a rebase | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | shardy: ok, ta. Can you make sure the rest in the series are approved? | 20:56 |
| zaneb | am I the only one getting 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable then? | 20:56 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: I think I have done, most of them I'd already +2'd | 20:56 |
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| shardy | zaneb: I was, then I reloaded from the base https://review.openstack.org path and it did a redirect, I logged in then it worked | 20:57 |
| zaneb | still getting 503 from https://review.openstack.org/ | 20:58 |
| zaneb | meh | 20:58 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: nuke yr cookies? | 21:01 |
| zaneb | no dice | 21:02 |
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| zaneb | oh, private browser window... well, it's different | 21:03 |
| zaneb | I wouldn't say it works | 21:03 |
| zaneb | just says "loading" | 21:04 |
| zaneb | oh, and now it works in a regular window | 21:05 |
| zaneb | weird | 21:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: Software config hook to provision using puppet https://review.openstack.org/70639 | 21:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: Software config hook to provision using cfn-init https://review.openstack.org/79759 | 22:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: Move software-config templates to example-templates https://review.openstack.org/84909 | 22:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: READMEs for software-config templates and hooks https://review.openstack.org/84910 | 22:14 |
| mattoliverau | Morning all | 22:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: Worked on Fedora 20 examples in HOT https://review.openstack.org/88523 | 22:27 |
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| mattoliverau | zaneb: when I got the 503, I just had to shift+refresh to reload the cached version. | 22:29 |
| zaneb | mattoliverau: that might explain | 22:30 |
| * zaneb tried just about every modifier key except 'shift' | 22:30 | |
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| mattoliverau | lol, isn't it always the way :) | 22:30 |
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| mattoliverau | Oh and if you decide to use the new screen for gerrit, the code review (vote) is actually under the reply button at the top.. took me a while to find it. Maybe staying with the default view is best for now :P | 22:33 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: Fix WordPress_Single_Instance_deb.template https://review.openstack.org/83730 | 22:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat-templates: Move rackspace templates in a contrib directory https://review.openstack.org/83732 | 22:57 |
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