| spotz[m] | Meeting in 11 minutes. agenda - https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda | 14:49 |
|---|---|---|
| spotz[m] | fungi: meeting? | 15:03 |
| fungi | yup | 15:03 |
| ildikov | o/ | 15:03 |
| spotz[m] | Whee and Ildiko ok let me start the bot | 15:03 |
| spotz[m] | #startmeeting diversity_wg | 15:03 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Jan 14 15:03:56 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:03 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:03 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 15:03 |
| spotz[m] | #topic Roll Call | 15:04 |
| fungi | ahoy! | 15:04 |
| spotz[m] | #chair fungi ildiko | 15:04 |
| opendevmeet | Warning: Nick not in channel: ildiko | 15:04 |
| opendevmeet | Current chairs: fungi ildiko spotz[m] | 15:04 |
| ildikov | hello! | 15:04 |
| spotz[m] | #chair ildikov | 15:05 |
| opendevmeet | Current chairs: fungi ildiko ildikov spotz[m] | 15:05 |
| spotz[m] | Ok interesting it added my mistake and kept it:) | 15:05 |
| ildikov | it happens :) | 15:05 |
| spotz[m] | I put one topic on the agenda today as it's the new year kick off and that's what goals we have for this year | 15:05 |
| ildikov | spotz[m]: are there any goals the group had for 2024 that are still outstanding? | 15:07 |
| fungi | as a cheap option i linked to the action items list from oid-na and ptg | 15:08 |
| spotz[m] | not in the doc anyways:) We were trying to promote the Survey to get usable data but we've had it out there for almost 2 years now or at least 18 months | 15:08 |
| fungi | we had some survey updates we wanted, discussion about adding translations for some stuff, and additions to the landing page on the foundation site | 15:09 |
| spotz[m] | It also looks like we were not asked for an annual report this past year | 15:09 |
| ildikov | spotz[m]: we've been making some tweaks to the Annual Report, so it has a different format this time around, etc | 15:10 |
| fungi | the annual report format was revised a bit for brevity this time around, it's possible we forgot about diversity-specific content | 15:10 |
| ildikov | we'll see where it will evolve over time | 15:11 |
| fungi | there's definitely content related to diversity, but not a dedicated section for it | 15:11 |
| spotz[m] | It has gotten long in the past, just let me know if we need to put something together. I'm not sure if we're required as a Board WG, but I've never written one for Compensation just an email with our conclusion for the year | 15:12 |
| ildikov | we could utilize Superuser for some D&I WG and survey content maybe? | 15:12 |
| fungi | ah, no there is a specific sub-heading for d&i activities, and i wrote it | 15:12 |
| fungi | or at least i wrote some of it, looks like others expanded on the seed content in put into the draft | 15:12 |
| spotz[m] | I'm wondering if we sholdn't just forget the last version and tweak it if needed and reannounce it from scratch | 15:12 |
| ildikov | spotz[m]: do you mean renouncing the survey? | 15:13 |
| fungi | i mentioned the new diversity portal, the survey, our involvement at events... | 15:14 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah just forget the current version which had less then 10 responses last I look and Announce a new one with fanfare! | 15:14 |
| fungi | and diablo_rojo added some content about mentorship programs (outreachy, anitab, student internships...) | 15:14 |
| spotz[m] | And please excuse all typos and bad grammar I haven't had coffee yet:) | 15:14 |
| ildikov | spotz[m]: I'm bad with grammar in general :D | 15:16 |
| spotz[m] | Speaking of mentorship, lets either turn the email list over to her to use or let's kill it. It's just spam at this point | 15:16 |
| ildikov | doing another round of announcements is a good idea | 15:16 |
| fungi | so anyway, looks like i was co-assigned the diversity section of the annual report but threw a lot of the content together myself since there was not much lead-up and we skipped a few meetings, failing to bring my draft up with the larger group is on me but hopefully what's in the report will be satisfactory (i don't think i left out anything major). sorry about that! | 15:16 |
| ildikov | fungi: thanks for writing it up! | 15:17 |
| fungi | and if what i'm hearing is accurate, we should expect the report to be published tomorrow | 15:17 |
| spotz[m] | It's always been us writing it together so I'm good with that, just thoughht we were left out | 15:17 |
| fungi | to be fair, i wrote all that before the holidays, so had already entirely forgotten i'd even done it | 15:18 |
| spotz[m] | hehe | 15:18 |
| fungi | gave those braincells a thorough chemical cleanse | 15:18 |
| ildikov | haha, mines need some cleansing too... :) | 15:20 |
| spotz[m] | I was so bored:) Especially as most upstream meetings were canceled too | 15:21 |
| spotz[m] | If we forward the list to discuss will the spam still be caught or go through? | 15:21 |
| fungi | it will get caught in moderation same as it ever did | 15:25 |
| spotz[m] | Ok perfect | 15:25 |
| fungi | oh, breaking news on the annual report, publication was just rescheduled for monday | 15:25 |
| fungi | er, maybe that's just the newsletter that was rescheduled | 15:26 |
| spotz[m] | Oh maybe for after the elections, it's hell week after all | 15:26 |
| spotz[m] | Going back to the list from last year - I know we had some discussions in Suwon about translations, impact of possibly letting AI assist there. Did we ever get the software online? | 15:28 |
| fungi | yeah, never mind, annual report is still scheduled for tomorrow, newsletter is just pushed out to monday | 15:28 |
| fungi | i think the ai-assisted translation discussion was specific to the openstack i18n team migrating from zanata to weblate, and as far as i know they still haven't finished doing that | 15:29 |
| fungi | if memory serves, ai-assist was an option in weblate | 15:29 |
| fungi | s/was/is/ | 15:29 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah it was in relation to the patches kicking off translation then the i18n team verifying, but then would the AI get kicked off again,etc and loop | 15:30 |
| spotz[m] | What other translations were you thinking? | 15:31 |
| fungi | the stuff listed in the oid-na/ptg discussion action items | 15:31 |
| fungi | "translations for superuser/newsletters" ... "translated versions of surveys and code of conduct" | 15:32 |
| spotz[m] | ahh newsletters | 15:32 |
| spotz[m] | Besides getting professional translators, would it be much different? Maybe Google translate vs weblate then asking the team to correct? | 15:33 |
| fungi | i think first we needed to have a discussion with the stakeholders on staff/board about the challenges for different content (legal, financial, logistical, technical) | 15:35 |
| spotz[m] | Legal might be a challenge for sure as that needs to be 100% correct | 15:36 |
| fungi | yeah, depending on the document | 15:36 |
| fungi | for example, translations of the coc have some possible legal implications, but translations of newsletters may not | 15:36 |
| spotz[m] | Or the finances as numbers are numbers they don't get translated just the words around them | 15:37 |
| fungi | as for using automated translation systems, it's worth discussing but my take is that if people wanted to read google-translated documents then they'd just stuff the url into google translate themselves, us publishing the result doesn't necessarily improve that experience | 15:38 |
| fungi | also google translate probably has terms of service which prohibit using its output on another webpage | 15:38 |
| ildikov | in many browsers translation is built-in by now | 15:38 |
| fungi | right, essentially if our translated content is no better/more accurate than auto-translation plugins in people's browsers, it's likely a waste of time and energy | 15:39 |
| ildikov | at least to English, I haven't tried other languages, but I'm sure it'll keep evolving | 15:39 |
| ildikov | +1 to what fungi said | 15:39 |
| spotz[m] | So here's a question, is there some way for us to trigger the browser to translate? I know sometimes I get prompted to on sites and others I don't | 15:40 |
| fungi | i'm happy to defer to others on this point though, especially seeing as how i'm a native english speaker and our content is originally written in english, so i lack true perspective on how useful it is or isn't | 15:40 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah me too, so maybe we do a test and see how bad it is:) | 15:42 |
| fungi | i'm simply guessing that the people who are asking to have documents translated into their preferred language mean having it done by a competent human translator fluent in both the source and target languages, and that if they wanted to read machine-translated content they could already easily do so | 15:42 |
| spotz[m] | Or maybe languages that don't have browser support | 15:43 |
| fungi | though in those cases the lack of browser plugins for their language likely means there aren't great machine translation solutions for that language, so we'd still need a human taking care of that | 15:44 |
| ildikov | I was in Japan last year and I used translation on local websites from Japanese to English | 15:45 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah so budget question, and I think finance is meeting today. We'd need an estimate to ask | 15:46 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah I'm using it for Brussels now:) | 15:46 |
| ildikov | there was a button somewhere in the URL field to turn it on | 15:46 |
| spotz[m] | Ok so not to go too far off topic, is getting a quote a foundation item? | 15:49 |
| fungi | there is some time and expense involved in looking for and collecting price quotes, i think before they do that the problem needs to be scoped more clearly | 15:50 |
| ildikov | +1 | 15:50 |
| fungi | basically we need to have some discussion about which of the various things listed make sense to try and get translations done for, and into which languages | 15:50 |
| fungi | do we know which languages people want which documents translated into? | 15:51 |
| fungi | who specificially is requesting we add the translations, maybe they have some ideas already? | 15:51 |
| fungi | looks like it was alvaro who brought it up initially at oid-na | 15:52 |
| fungi | he was initially talking about a translation he made of the coc into spanish, and wanted to talk about possibly getting it published somewhere official | 15:53 |
| spotz[m] | I would think that should be easy enough to accomplish? | 15:53 |
| fungi | the crux of the issue there was that in order to do a legal review the foundation needed to track down legal counsel who felt capable of reviewing documents in spanish | 15:54 |
| fungi | so that's a specific request, i guess it's somewhere to start. finding and gettign quotes on legal document review from lawyers specializing in that | 15:55 |
| spotz[m] | It's worth asking Chris to check at the firm? | 15:55 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/diversity-wg-na discussion of publishing community-translated spanish coc | 15:56 |
| fungi | for reference, since it was a few clicks away from the agenda | 15:56 |
| spotz[m] | Thanks | 15:58 |
| fungi | from that discussion it looks like alvaro had talked to aprice so she presumably has some context which would be the best place to start | 15:59 |
| fungi | and it seemed like TheJulia had some memory of discussing that at the board level too | 15:59 |
| spotz[m] | Ok 2 minutes left. I can follow up with Allison. | 15:59 |
| fungi | thanks! | 15:59 |
| spotz[m] | Ok let me end the meeting. Thank you both for attending | 16:00 |
| spotz[m] | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Jan 14 16:00:23 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2025/diversity_wg.2025-01-14-15.03.html | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2025/diversity_wg.2025-01-14-15.03.txt | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2025/diversity_wg.2025-01-14-15.03.log.html | 16:00 |
| spotz[m] | Spanish COC was community reviewed and cleared for publication | 16:05 |
| fungi | i guess the question was then more around how to get it onto the openinfra.org website alongside the english original? | 16:06 |
| fungi | (was it cleared for that specifically?) | 16:07 |
| spotz[m] | Yes | 16:07 |
| TheJulia | I was always advocating we just do machine translation and post with an explicit note it is a translation, fwiw | 16:07 |
| spotz[m] | the requirement we gave him was that it needed to be reviewed by 3 native speakers to ensure that the english version was translated correctly. and he satisfied that. | 16:07 |
| TheJulia | Cool | 16:07 |
| fungi | cool, so i guess we're down to followup with foundation staff managing the website to get the document up there | 16:08 |
| spotz[m] | That was from Allison FYI | 16:08 |
| fungi | i think even if we're going to publish machine translations, the open questions i'd have are 1. which languages specifically? 2. what machine translation services have licenses allowing third-party publication of their output? 3. how much will that cost? | 16:10 |
| fungi | oh, also of course 4. which documents? | 16:10 |
| TheJulia | That is semi-disjointed from a single document though | 16:11 |
| spotz[m] | I think we could do a poll to determine languages? My guess would be Spanish, French, Chinese(Cantonese and Mandarin?), Korean and Japanese? | 16:11 |
| TheJulia | it *would* be helpful in growing the community to help breakdown those language barriers a little, overall | 16:11 |
| fungi | which languages we target might also depend on the different audiences. the most cost-effective languages for the coc may differ from those for the foundation newsletter, for example | 16:12 |
| TheJulia | that all being said, the code of conduct is the most important doc for non-native speakers to have access to | 16:13 |
| fungi | cost for translating newsletter issues is going to be more frequent/ongoing, while legal documents like the coc are relatively static | 16:13 |
| fungi | yes, i also think scoping it to just the coc first would make sense | 16:13 |
| TheJulia | yeah, and truthfully, the news letter can also be translated by interested parties. CoC is sort of like rules of the road | 16:13 |
| TheJulia | California Example: "Thou shall not exceed 70 Mph, unless you exceed 16k lbs, a tag axle, towing something, then you may not exceed 55 Mph" | 16:15 |
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