Monday, 2015-08-03

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kfox1111j^2: alive?15:55
kfox1111recheck wont help. its a lagit schema check issue.15:56
kfox1111schema changed while it was in flight.15:56
j^2how can i fix this?15:56
kfox1111add a service: type: heat subsection.15:58
j^2ah ok15:58
j^2will do after my openstack-chef meeting15:58
j^2in two mins :P15:58
kfox1111there's one more in flight too.15:58
kfox1111docaedo: you around?15:59
kfox1111if we can get that one through too, then you could do that update at the same time.15:59
rhagarty_kfox1111: good morning16:04
kfox1111good morning.16:04
rhagarty_just trying to wrap up the discussion we had about adding Horizon plug-ins to your new App Catalog. What do you think the chances are of getting16:04
rhagarty_anything into a future release?16:04
openstackgerritJJ Asghar proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Adding HOT for Chef Standalone Server
kfox1111the answer is, I don't know... :/16:05
rhagarty_See Seems like an easy way to perform a PyPI package search... so any16:05
rhagarty_contributor who wanted to be included in your16:05
rhagarty_catalog listing could add a special keyword or classification to their package which would be picked up by your search. The App Catalog listing would include16:05
rhagarty_the PyPI package name, a description, and link.16:05
rhagarty_just an idea...16:05
kfox1111I'm for it I think. docaedo's against.16:05
kfox1111I think once the new ui's in place, it should be easy to filter out things like horizon plugins for non ops, so having them is a benifit.16:06
kfox1111we don't currently support external catalogs... its someting I've been mulling over a little bit, but we'd have to discuss that one too.16:07
kfox1111It would be benifitial to the docker use case too,16:07
kfox1111but also could be a slipery slope.16:07
kfox1111so, lets not call the idea dead, but I'm guessing its probably not going to be a short term thing either, unless someone wants to code it and convince others.16:10
rhagarty_ok - have to report to my team, so just wanted to make sure I understood where you guys stand. Thanks for your time and patience.16:10
kfox1111np. I do think it belongs somewhere.16:10
kfox1111baring somewhere else existing (it doesn't), the app catalog seems like a reasonable place to me.16:11
rhagarty_I definitely agree. Maybe my team can help with that effort.16:12
rhagarty_one last quick question... the App Catalog will be an admin-only panel, correct?16:14
kfox1111no. anyone will be able to use it.16:14
kfox1111my hope though is to add a tag that is shown only to admins.16:15
kfox1111j^2: its going to fail again. format: HOT needs to be moved to the service section.16:15
rhagarty_ok. thanks16:16
j^2kfox1111: grr, ok i’ll try again16:16
kfox1111then I think it will pass. though not sure if git's smart enough to merge it.16:16
kfox1111arg... and supported_by changed too.16:16
kfox1111supported_by: name: Community and Chef Partnereng16:17
kfox1111if you want to not have to wait for jenkins,16:17
kfox1111you can run 'tox' in the root of the apps-catalog repo.16:17
openstackgerritJJ Asghar proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Adding HOT for Chef Standalone Server
docaedokfox1111: Hi, I'm around16:24
kfox1111good morning.16:25
docaedoregarding horizon plugins in the app catalog, I'm still agains (as you noted), but I'm not intractably dug in16:25
kfox1111can you please review
docaedowill review momentarily16:25
docaedoand on the "what goes in the catalog" topic, I was thinking about it this morning and am going to write to the mailing list about this exact thing16:26
docaedoMy thinking right now is that doesn't make sense at this moment (the way the catalog is structured, etc.) but as we expand and change the catalog to easily handle more types, it starts to make sense16:27
docaedothe reason I want to float it the ML is to get other perspectives, especially people who have put a lot of effort into packaging openstack components, etc.16:27
kfox1111yeah, thats what I was thinking. once we just have one file, and service: type: X is fully in place,16:28
kfox1111then it would be pretty easy to do a service: type: horizon   or something.16:28
docaedoon a related tanged, I'm pretty strongly against just reflecting other indexes (pypi for instance), if that's what the suggestion was (maybe I misinterpreted?)16:28
kfox1111being an rpm guy myself, I do know the pain pip can inflict if not used properly.16:29
kfox1111I think the idea might be this...16:29
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kfox1111say Magnum takes off bigtime.16:29
kfox1111then you want to be able to run docker containers on top of openstack.16:29
kfox1111We probably don't want to duplicate the docker hub's catalog. that would be painful.16:30
kfox1111so could we hook in the docker hub in such a way that all the entries just show up in a docker section?16:30
kfox1111the ui is handy for users, they just pick a container, hit launch, and it shows up on their openstack.16:30
kfox1111but its a little odd to hook into external other catalogs.16:31
docaedoGood chance searching docker hub externally like that would be frowned upon if it ever got popular, and also makes the app catalog sound like it wants to be a search engine16:32
kfox1111isn't the app catalog a search engine?16:32
kfox1111a place to go for users to find X app to run on their openstack, and integration to make it easy to launch it.16:33
kfox1111once the catalog becomes of any useable size, its got to have search at its heart, or no one will be able to find the needle in the haystack they want.16:33
docaedoI think of it as an index of things IN the app catalog, not an index of all things related to openstack16:33
docaedoso yes, searchable index16:34
docaedono on indexing external catalogs16:34
kzaitsev_mbkfox1111: wonder if it's a good idea to make a proxy for dokerhub. Seems that it would be nicer if magnum-ui would support doker API (if any)16:34
docaedo(i.e. I think including a component for deploying Cloud Foundry is great, but including an index of everything in CLoud Foundry's index is not)16:34
kfox1111kzaitsev_mb: what about the other 3 ways of launching docker containers?16:34
kfox1111Murano's pushing to be a docker provider as well.16:35
docaedonova-docker is in the mix too16:35
kfox1111so, I'm with you on it really doesn't need to provide entries for docker on it. since the hub already has a website for that.16:35
kfox1111but what about in horizon itself? being able to find and click "launch" and actually get it is a very compelling feature.16:36
kfox1111maybe the app catalog ui provides a plugable ui for pulling catalog entries from multiple locations?16:36
kfox1111then the docker folks could provide their own plugin to pull from the hub?16:36
kfox1111I'm worried if we don't centralize the ui a little bit, we'll end up with the Murano app catalog, the global ap catalog, the docker app catalog....16:37
kfox1111thing next app catalog...16:37
docaedothat's an interesting thought, trying to make app-catalog-ui a sort of funnel for finding/fetching/launching all the external bits16:38
kfox1111it provides the ability for users that don't care about what engine's needed to run the app not to have to care. they just find "Jenkins" and launch one.16:39
kfox1111if its heat or docker they don't have to care.16:39
kfox1111hows the app tags thing look?16:41
docaedoI like the idea, and if the horizon bit is a good enough framework so "project xyz" can be easily added, could be really compelling16:42
docaedosimilar to the goal of oslo, becomes "the one place" to do that16:42
kfox1111yeah. I've been trying to make the code as generic as possible to support the new service types coming up. I don't htink it would be too hard to make extendable.16:42
docaedore: 208103, I like it, was about to +2 it, I like it16:43
kfox1111arg. my test horizon broke... and not sure why..16:43
kfox1111k. thx.16:43
kfox1111j^2: please add a tags["app"] to your template too.16:44
kzaitsev_mbso all the assets are now apps, but some would later be libraries, right?16:45
kfox1111no, I took a stab at marking things as apps or not based on our previous conversation about the topic. for example, murano has libraries listed in a comment in the yaml. I did not tag those as apps.16:46
kzaitsev_mboh, I see16:46
kzaitsev_mbI just scrolled to -enum and there were only apps at the moment =)16:47
kfox1111yeah. probably will need a lot more. :)16:47
kfox1111I saw that murano also has some other "types" defined as a comment header with entries inside.16:47
kfox1111it would be nice to understand what they are intended for, and maybe tag those too.16:47
kfox1111so they can be retrieved programatically.16:48
kzaitsev_mbwell. there was an intention to have bundles of apps, that are just json files, that list apps (with versions) included in the bundle.16:49
kzaitsev_mbsome sort of meta-package16:49
kfox1111currently there are only two catagories of things apps and components. all apps are components (no tags['app']). apps are stuff just tags:['app']16:49
kfox1111what is a bundle for?16:49
kfox1111an app is something a user would directly want to "launch"16:50
kzaitsev_mbsay, databases bundle, that includes mysql, postgresql and oracle apps16:50
kfox1111as a user, why would I want to install all those databases?16:50
kfox1111I probaly only want 1.16:50
kzaitsev_mbas a cloud admin — you might want to give your users ability to choose which db they would install16:51
kfox1111the user can install all of them already.16:51
kfox1111or are you tihkning, if the cloud admin disabled custom image loading?16:52
kfox1111so they might want to load them all themselves with the public bit set?16:52
kzaitsev_mbor another example — say LAMP. a bundle, that contains mysql, apache and smth else16:52
kzaitsev_mbit's more like apt-get install build-essentials thing16:53
kfox1111I kind of see it for murano, but those things are part of the os running inside.16:53
kfox1111those can be configured with heat params.16:53
kfox1111the heat template woudl have a drop down for db type, or git repo to pull source from?16:54
kfox1111I guess bundle isn't really that different from having dependency installing working.16:55
kfox1111just a dummy entry with dependencies on the bundle entries.16:55
kfox1111so it wouldn't hurt to make that sort of thing.16:55
kzaitsev_mbyou can install gcc and gmake (and whatever is there) separatelly, but this type of thing allows you to install several things in one line.16:55
kfox1111something service: type: bundle with the deps listed.16:55
kfox1111I still don't quite follow with respect to pulling in multiple openstack components...16:56
kfox1111you apt-get/yum install in a vm thats booted.16:56
kfox1111we don't custom build a set of glance images with all permutations of software inside them so you don't have to apt-get/yum install stuff?16:56
kfox1111so why create a bundle that can pull in 7 different images?16:57
docaedo(stepped away, but back now)16:57
kfox1111got a 10-11:00. :/   its a good conversation though.16:57
docaedoI can explain the point of the murano bundle16:57
kfox1111hope to talk about it more in a bit.16:58
docaedothink of the murano bits as individual building blocks, so in a given cloud environment, it's useful to have mysql, postgres and some other DB16:59
openstackgerritJJ Asghar proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Adding HOT for Chef Standalone Server
docaedothen I can grab an apache/wordpress app, and that has a requirement of "A Database". When I deploy that one, I can choose to use postgres or mysql DB16:59
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: thanks, that's exactly what I meant by an example of databases bundle =)17:00
docaedohopefully that explanation helps :)17:01
kfox1111so, its not a database that its depending on, but a murano plugin that provides a database api?17:14
openstackgerritMerged stackforge/apps-catalog: Add tag to apps
kfox1111like a heat resource type?17:14
kzaitsev_mbnot a specific database, yes.17:15
docaedoAFAIK that is correct17:15
kfox1111hmm... thats interesting...17:15
kfox1111so murano is set to become an "Uber service"17:16
docaedoit's pretty handy, and from the user side, it works nicely. In a perfect world all that great user-side stuff from Murano would be part of heat17:16
kfox1111Rather then implement magnum, sahara, etc, you write plugins to murano to do it.17:16
kfox1111yeah. and heat gets resource types for sahara stuff, etc.17:17
kfox1111so... these types, do they require a turing complete language?17:18
kfox1111and can users load them themselves?17:18
kfox1111as an op, thats really scary. :/17:18
docaedousers can load them themselves, but how is that scary? It's just a VM.17:18
docaedothe op is not responsible for it17:19
kfox1111its not just a vm thouhg, its code for managing a db deployment to load into murano?17:19
kfox1111or is it just passing it through to the vm where it runs all the code inside the vm?17:20
kfox1111so more similar to a heat template software deployment then a sahara engine.17:20
docaedowell .. believe it generates a heat template, and then heat creates a VM and gets the DB installed. But the VM has murano agent so I am not sure what murano does and what heat does. but it's all tenant isolated, so does not impact anyone else17:21
kfox1111tenant isolation's fine in the vm. its if the tenant can load code into the engine, which isn't isolated and run code there that worries me.17:22
docaedoit's fully isolated17:23
kfox1111I can see the point of a bundle though. If heat say, had generic software config's that could be loaded into a tenant environment as a new resource type, it would be roughly the same, and then loading bundles of resources would make sense.17:23
kzaitsev_mbkfox1111: murano has it's own dsl, that's small and shouldn't be able to harm anything outside the scope of one deployment enviroment17:24
kfox1111is is the dsl turring complete or not?17:24
kfox1111thats the level where I start worrying. :)17:24
kfox1111a dsl can be either.17:24
kfox1111so, lets take solum language packs as another example. the user may want to bulk add a common set of them to then build apon.17:26
kfox1111or in fact, ui wise, it would be awesome to show the whole set with check boxes, and the user can uncheck what they dont want, then bulk load the rest.17:28
kfox1111so a bundle is a collection of components that a user might want to install together. The components may be of different types.17:35
kfox1111I think that makes sense.17:36
kzaitsev_mbspeaking catalog-ui-wize those can potentially be even from different types, I guess17:36
kfox1111so like, a set of common glance images, murano libs, and solum language packs could be all in one bundle.17:37
kzaitsev_mblike i-want-it-all.bundle that would have everything! +)17:37
kfox1111heh. that one would have to be autogenerated.... and no. just no. ;)17:38
kfox1111so +1 for creating a new type for bundles. service: type: bundle  or something.17:39
kzaitsev_mbthat would actually make a good UI-testing thingy.17:39
kfox1111or service: type: app-catalog with subtype: bundle or something.17:39
kzaitsev_mbcause it would be an edge-case of edge cases17:39
kfox1111yeah, but once the sum total of resources grows beyond a few hundred TB, not many folks can actually test. ;)17:40
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j^2kfox1111: so it seems i put tags i the wrong place?18:07
j^2the properties doesn’t look for it?18:08
kfox1111I think the tags schema update hasn't quite made it all the way through the system.18:09
j^2recheck in a bit?18:09
kfox1111also see my comment in irc above about supported_by.18:11
j^2hmm, ok, i’m blind18:22
j^2i cant find it18:22
kfox111112:16 < kfox1111> arg... and supported_by changed too.18:29
kfox111112:17 < kfox1111> supported_by: name: Community and Chef Partnereng18:29
kfox111112:17 < kfox1111> if you want to not have to wait for jenkins,18:29
kfox111112:17 < kfox1111> you can run 'tox' in the root of the apps-catalog repo.18:29
openstackgerritJJ Asghar proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Adding HOT for Chef Standalone Server
kfox1111looks good to me. gota wait for jenkins to check it though.18:57
kfox1111did you ever get to adding the wait condition to the template?18:57
kfox1111also, I did want to talk to you about floating ip's.18:57
kfox1111Right now, your using a construct that both allocates an associates them. That's a very pet oriented way.18:58
kfox1111if you regester the floating ip in dns, you have to be very careful to remove the dns entry before deleting your stack, or else someone else can steel your dns entry.18:59
kfox1111so I tend to like to just allocate them via horizon, then pass them through and associate them in the template.18:59
j^2Yeah never got the wait working. It's on my todo.19:07
kfox1111j^2: yay. :)19:42
kfox1111docaedo: care to second?19:42
docaedokfox1111: talking about 206255?20:29
j^2^5 kfox111120:31
kfox1111thx. :)20:32
openstackgerritMerged stackforge/apps-catalog: Adding HOT for Chef Standalone Server
kfox1111done. :)20:33
kfox1111j^2: Thanks. :)20:33
j^2Maybe in a little while…like a week or two? i’ll put in a review to add that to the apps thingy? or switch it out for the glance image?20:35
kfox1111apps thingy?20:35
j^2(Requires OpenStack)20:36
kfox1111ah. yeah.20:36
j^2that thing, switch out the glance for template?20:36
j^2that seems reasonable20:36
kfox1111sure. sounds good.20:36
j^2ah it seems that the Description…isn’t markdown20:50
j^2I’ll be doing a formatting review here in a bit20:50
kfox1111yeah, I don't think its anything but text at the moment.20:52
kfox1111markdown's not a bad idea though...20:52
docaedoyes, description doesn't allow for any formatting, I completely forgot about being annoyed with that before launch :)20:55
kfox1111I slid in a blueprint for it so we don't forget again.20:55
docaedoI will support any effort to fix that - would be really useful, and markdown would work pretty well I think. I'm just not sure what it takes to render that on the web side so haven't given it a lot of thought20:56
docaedothanks kfox1111 for that blueprint!20:56
kfox1111interesting... :)21:01
openstackgerritJJ Asghar proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Fixed up the formatting for Chef template
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