Wednesday, 2015-08-12

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docaedokfox1111: alive, but gone all day, will be online tomorrow am02:08
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kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: kfox1111: are you going to attend Tokio summit btw?15:33
docaedokzaitsev_mb: I expect to be in Tokyo, yes15:33
docaedokzaitsev_mb: what about you?15:34
kzaitsev_mbdon't know yet. there is some chance, I'll be attending15:34
kfox1111kzaitsev_mb: I'm trying. the fundings being a bit tricky. :/15:35
kfox1111I attended the last one, which makes it harder to do this one.15:36
kfox1111but I think this one's going to be a critical one for the app catalog. there's a lot of infrastructure needed in several projects that needs to get done,15:36
kfox1111and its hard without actually being there. :/15:36
kfox1111I did get commitment that the nova instance user thing will be a mediumish priority for Nova in Mitaka.15:37
docaedokfox1111: that's great news!15:38
kfox1111We also need to deal with the ssl+dns thing too, and I just havent' had time to even start that spec. :/15:38
docaedojust talking about an ssl cert for Where does DNS come in?15:39
kfox1111for example, user wants to deploy a web scaled app.15:39
kfox1111back to the wordpress example...15:39
kfox1111wordpress needs authentication. authentication shoudl happen over https for obvious reasons.15:39
kfox1111so you need ssl certs.15:39
kfox1111self signed are insecure, defeating a lot of the purpose of https.15:40
docaedosure but that should not be managed by app catalog stuff, should be handled by deployment method15:40
kfox1111so, what I need is for my scientists to go to the app catalog, launch "wordpress",15:40
docaedocould be handled by deploying wordpress via cloud foundry for instance15:40
kfox1111the heat template asks designate for a dns entry for their server,15:40
docaedo(sorry, will let you finish typing first :) )15:40
kfox1111and an ssl cert associated with
kfox1111and get it.15:40
kfox1111so that means designate and barbican need to work together to support asking for ssl certs for domains managed by designate.15:41
kfox1111there is no such integration yet. :/15:41
kfox1111so dns works, but is not very usefull outside of http, and ssl works, but doesn't work with dns. :/15:41
kfox1111make sense?15:42
docaedoyep, I totally understand. I think you'll start to see more support for fixing integrations in sensible ways in the months/years to come (as I'm in total agreement, and the people I'm going to be working with shortly also agree on that stuff)15:44
docaedogotta step away for half an hour, but will be back15:45
kfox1111I've been attending the cross project meeting a bit.15:45
kfox1111might be a good one for you to  go to too.15:45
kfox1111We seem to be a good example of a cross cutting project that has needs of all of the others.15:45
j^2so it seems the new version of glance doesn’t have backwards compat with our default glance cmd16:08
j^2glance image-create --copy-from --disk-format qcow2 --container-format bare --name 'CirrOS'16:08
j^2it fails with: glance: error: unrecognized arguments: --copy-from
j^2we need to address this?16:08
kzaitsev_mbj^2: hm... works for me16:09
kzaitsev_mbwhich version of glance do you have?16:09
j^2root@default-ubuntu-1404:~# glance --version16:09
j^2i could be doing something wrong...16:10
kzaitsev_mbmine is 0.19.0, so that's definitelly the case16:10
j^2so ubuntu is behind then eh?16:10
j^2i hate packages, but i hate dealing with source more…i hate computers...16:11
kzaitsev_mbkilo requirement says
kzaitsev_mb(assuming you have kilo)16:11
j^2great so it’s defaulting to the lowest version16:12
j^2yeah, i’m doing kilo16:12
j^2if your curious:
j^2still WIP16:12
kzaitsev_mbheh, 0.15 fails for me too, but with a different error16:15
j^2kzaitsev_mb: man, i don’t get package management at all:16:15
j^2so stable is 15, for vivid, on 14. dev is 19, which is what you’re running, but i have to change the repos completly to get up there?16:16
j^2but cloud-archives are only doing stable it seems16:16
kzaitsev_mbsooo, yeah, seems like 0.15 does not know how to copy-from16:18
j^2and the default install/build of apt/Ubuntu is 1516:19
j^2i’m going verbatum off the install guide16:19
j^2so theres a question here16:19
kzaitsev_mbor at least the help for command is not very helpfull16:19
j^2say it ain’t so!16:19
j^2so this works: wget^Cros-0.3.4-x86_64-disk.img && glance image-create --disk-format qcow2 --container-format bare --name 'CirrOS' < cirros-0.3.4-x86_64-disk.img16:23
j^2but that’s lame16:23
kzaitsev_mbwget -qO- | glance image-create --disk-format qcow2 --container-format bare --name 'CirrOS'16:24
j^2so should there be a note or something saying if you’re using 15 you’ll have to do that?16:25
j^2that seems like something that should be there16:26
j^2especially if that’s what the install guide puts in16:26
kzaitsev_mbor we can completely change the thing, and encourage using horizon for that, I guess. Although I'm not sure if your horizon has the option to download image from http if your client does not have it..16:27
j^2kfox1111, docaedo thoughts?16:27
j^2and it looks like something is broken on my side, it’s stuck in “SAVING” mode...16:28
docaedoHi, I'm back and catching up ... copy-from is pretty old AFAIK16:42
docaedo(or at least the concept - where you give glance a URL for an image, and glance fetches that image), maybe it did not used to be called copy-from?16:43
docaedokfox1111: agreed on cross-project. I was attending before I started my little sabbatical, and will be attending in a few weeks when $JOB begins again :)16:44
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docaedoI suspect that glance command hint might need more tailoring (or for real completeness, a dropdown with the version since the ability to fetch from remote appears to be changing, and maybe is tied to API version of glance?)16:48
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kfox1111is this a cloud you stood up yourself?18:16
kfox1111that does seem to be a pretty old glance client.18:17
kfox1111are you using the openstack provided by ubuntu lts rather then a newer repo?18:17
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kfox1111part of the problem with the website's going to be maintaining backwards compatability with really old clints like that....18:23
kfox1111The problem is glance --copy-from should be a 3rd party transfer, while < is not. So its mutch better to do it with --copy-from if you can.18:24
kfox1111either we should support multiple cli's with maybe a cloud version selector, or an app catalog cli that helps users install stuff.18:25
kfox1111my preference is towards the latter option.18:26
kfox1111so the install line would be more like 'app-catalog install foo'18:28
kfox1111then the app catalog cli can detect the client features and do the right thing.18:28
openstackgerritKevin Fox proposed stackforge/apps-catalog-ui: Initial stab at a grid layout for apps.
kfox1111docaedo: alive?19:20
kfox1111we should probably propose the app catalog move to
docaedokfox1111: you ready my mind, I was just thinking of putting in a request for that last night!20:58
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kfox1111cool. :)21:35
j^2kzaitsev_mb: still around?22:02
kzaitsev_mbj^2: yep, but not for long (I hope)22:07
j^2ah no worries, i got some progress with the glance image thing22:07
j^2we can talk about it tomorrow22:07
kzaitsev_mbI'm trying to start going to sleep at rather normal time frame =) guess we're living on different sides of the planet )22:08
j^2ah cook22:08
kfox1111j^2: see my previous question about versions...22:10
j^2kfox1111: i have not, i’ll see if i can get it in teh backlog22:14
kfox1111about 4 hours ago.22:18
kfox1111let me just pastebin it...22:19
docaedoI propose we skip the weekly meeting tomorrow, as I have nothing on the agenda, and all the regular attendees are also here on this channel - what do you think?22:26
kfox1111hmm... probably ok.22:26
kfox1111any news on a glance poc?22:26
docaedono news on that front, but the more I think about it, the more I question the value22:28
kfox1111we probably should have an action item for talking to legal about how to deal with icons.22:28
kfox1111I've got a patch ready to go that adds icons for all glance/heat items, just to test the new ui.22:28
kfox1111but it makes use of some links that we may not want to use long term.22:28
docaedore: icons, we discussed some of that with OpenStack foundation before launch, give me a minute to skim archives...22:29
docaedoso far haven't found anything specific about legality of icons, likely I am remembering the issue of re-distributing OS images (which is what led quickly to decide NOT to host most glance images, rather point visitors to them so as to avoid the legality)22:43
kfox1111I'm just pointing at links, with a few other numbers to center/crop it right.22:44
docaedoas for details of assets, there was an assumption that folks ADDING assets (like when CoreOS added stuff), they were assuming responsibility for what they added and how they added it - so if company X adds an entry for their asset, and includes an image, they are aware of the image being added22:44
kfox1111whether they are official or not, thats a different thing.22:44
kfox1111yeah. but I think its also unlikely that it will be the companies themselves, at least not for a while, going to add it. :/22:45
kfox1111and we've got a backlog of stuff to add icons to. so even if it was true going forward, it isn't today. :/22:45
docaedoSO in general, I think we are safe, and worst case, one or two people will one day say "hey we don't want that image", and so it goes away. Reasonable to assume most people will WANT their image used, but I would say probably dont need to sweat it until a little ways down the road22:45
kfox1111k. so I should just post the review?22:46
docaedoI would, yes22:46
kfox1111k. sec...22:46
docaedoand as long as I'm in front of the computer, back to "any progress on glance POC" -22:46
docaedoto finish off my thoughts on it at least, I don't see a lot of value, as it's not really in glances sweet spot to do this (searchable back end for heavy-volume binary storage)22:47
docaedowhich for me brings us back to talking about elasticsearch, swift and the ask.openstack codebase (which to me would be the best mix to solve the issues)22:48
docaedoin fact, need to look at ask.openstack and ping fungi on it a little bit (I think he's handling that site), maybe there's already a good index/search solution built in.22:48
kfox1111I was sort of thinking about the topic the other day. had an idea.22:49
docaedodo tell!22:49
kfox1111specifically, staring the apps.22:49
kfox1111it would be nice, to be able to give out 'cloud acounts.' the cloud op would register with the app server, and then get back a key they would put in horizon's config.22:50
kfox1111then the user could star something, and the webui would contact back the app catalog using the key and the cloud users uuid.22:50
kfox1111the user themselves wouldn't have to authenticate with the app catalog just to star something then.22:50
kfox1111and if a cloud has a bunch of bad users, we just invalidate the whole cloud's users stars.22:51
openstackgerritKevin Fox proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Initial stab at adding some icons to test the new ui with.
docaedoInteresting idea but I would like for users to have to register before giving feedback, as anyone who has legit feedback would be happy (I imagine?) to register.22:53
docaedowe could start showing downloads (or maybe just ranking view popularity) to give a sort of anonymous measure of popularity22:53
kfox1111I'm ok with that too, but just thinking of my scientist use case again.22:55
kfox1111they already login to horizon, so asking them to double login is a burdon.22:56
kfox1111being able to just star an app they find and like right from horzion without having to step through go to external site, register account, check email, login, reset password, find page to star again, star app,22:56
kfox1111would get us a lot more reviews quickly. :)22:57
kfox1111as an Op, I'd gladly take that burdon on myself to register my cloud, so my individual users don't have to for horizon.22:57
kfox1111the users do kind of regester in that case, the are automatically registered through the op's registration.22:59
docaedoThe idea definitely has merit so don't let my "meh" slow you down :) Can get feedback from some other ops too, see what they think22:59
kfox1111yeah. it would be interesting to hear of other ops think thats too high a burdon on their side.22:59
openstackgerritChristopher Aedo proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Initial stab at adding some icons to test the new ui with.
kfox1111but it could also be optional. if the user doesn't register it, then it forces the user to go register themselveswhen they go to star.23:00
docaedo(BTW I pressed the rebase button on your change)23:00
kzaitsev_wssounds interesting to me. Although this would mean that sorting by rating would have to take that into account. Like you can technically register infinite amount of users in your cloud23:00
docaedoadded this blueprint so it's not forgotten:
kzaitsev_wsalso my 2 cents is that I generally think up/down vote is better and easier to sort correctly, rather than 5-star ratings.23:01
docaedoalso wonder about the implications of ballot-box stuffing and so on - if there's just one "master" ID, how does the catalog know how many users are on the other side23:01
kfox1111kzaitsev_ws: an op could, yes. a normal user, no.23:02
kzaitsev_mbdocaedo: well, we'll have to trust them. for sorting purpose we a median of all users vote can be taken or some coeeficient applied, I guess.23:02
kfox1111if we see a cloud that seems to be stuffing,23:03
kfox1111we can always cancel out the whole clouds ratings since we'd keep track of the cloud's id as well as the user id in the db.23:03
kzaitsev_mbkfox1111: yep, that seems to be easy to detect. Althought that means that someone has to monitor and detect it (which is a small implication as of itself)23:03
kfox1111or wait till an app developer complains they think stuffing is going on and then look at it then.23:04
kzaitsev_mbso just to share (if you haven't read it already)
kfox1111we still would have to cover detecting stuffing by just creating lots of email addresses and registering them. so I don't think its particular to the cloud account thing.23:05
docaedofair 'nuff23:05
kzaitsev_mbsince we're on related theme )23:05
kfox1111kzaitsev_mb: interesting. thanks for the link.23:06
docaedoApologies, that's really not something we have to worry about right now, and my poking at this issue isn't really needed now.  Like worrying how we will handle a million simultaneous users all triggering a search every 5 seconds.  Would be a great problem to have, but not a use case we need to design for today23:07
docaedo("that" in this case being my trivial concerns of ballot box stuffing, etc.)23:07
kzaitsev_mbthis is reddits source code for it
kzaitsev_mbalthough I think something changed since I last saw the page...23:08
kzaitsev_mbwell, the confidence still looks like that hellish function )23:08
kfox1111very interesting solution to the minimum rating issue. will have to look at this more later.23:08
kfox1111yeah. right now we're worried about getting enough users, that some users might start careing to stuff the box. :)23:13
docaedo:) gtg but should be around tomorrow for more chatter23:15
kfox1111have a good one.23:15
kfox1111kzaitsev_mb: had a chance to look at the horizon stuff any more?23:18
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openstackgerritKevin Fox proposed stackforge/apps-catalog: Initial stab at adding some icons to test the new ui with.

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