| sdake | found some useful data about ecs http://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/cloud-container-management/ | 00:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Davanum Srinivas (dims) proposed stackforge/magnum: Initial commit from github (squashed) https://review.openstack.org/133811 | 14:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Davanum Srinivas (dims) proposed stackforge/magnum: Incorporate feedback from the Initial commit review https://review.openstack.org/134234 | 14:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged stackforge/magnum: Initial commit from github (squashed) https://review.openstack.org/133811 | 17:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged stackforge/magnum: Incorporate feedback from the Initial commit review https://review.openstack.org/134234 | 17:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Test of irc channel output https://review.openstack.org/135389 | 18:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Import oslo-incubator's logging library https://review.openstack.org/135409 | 20:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Create a ReST API entrypoint https://review.openstack.org/135410 | 20:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add context base module from oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/135411 | 20:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add Keystone authentication to rest API https://review.openstack.org/135412 | 20:23 |
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| sdake | after that, you can run magnum-api after installing | 20:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add Keystone authentication to rest API https://review.openstack.org/135412 | 20:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add context base module from oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/135411 | 20:39 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Create a ReST API entrypoint https://review.openstack.org/135410 | 20:39 |
| sdake | daneyon reviewing neutron patch now bbi2 hrs :) | 20:41 |
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| sdake | oops wrong c hannel | 20:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add Keystone authentication to rest API https://review.openstack.org/135412 | 21:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add context base module from oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/135411 | 21:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Create a ReST API entrypoint https://review.openstack.org/135410 | 21:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed stackforge/magnum: Add H302 to the ignored hacking rules list https://review.openstack.org/135425 | 21:01 |
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| sdake | anyone got a hold of amazon's ecs api docs? | 21:10 |
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| sdake | container irc meeting now? | 22:01 |
| dims | sdake: left a couple of questions in the reviews | 22:02 |
| sdake | dims ack i'llk look | 22:02 |
| daneyon | wondering the same thing. | 22:02 |
| jlb13 | there's a meeting scheduled, maybe i missed a cancellation? | 22:02 |
| jlb13 | ping adrian_otto | 22:03 |
| sdake | perhaps adrian catching a quick bio :) | 22:04 |
| adrian_otto | hi | 22:06 |
| adrian_otto | is it 2200 UTC already!! | 22:07 |
| sdake | ya everyones clocks are busted because of tz changes :( | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | ack, sorry | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | starting in #openstack-containers-alt | 22:07 |
| adrian_otto | I mean #openstack-meeting-alt | 22:08 |
| jlb13 | no worries :) | 22:09 |
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| erw | bbl - kids, pizza | 23:00 |
| Slower | OK, what's the M1 goal then? | 23:01 |
| Slower | mmmm, pizza | 23:01 |
| Slower | ya my phone never adjusted the meeting for the TZ.. I guess I put the time in in PDT so that makes sense | 23:01 |
| adrian_otto | mine too, and I know better | 23:02 |
| sdake | adrian_otto are you oepning the thread on the ml re milestone #1? | 23:03 |
| achanda_ | do we know when do we want M1 to end? the scope should depend on the time we have.. | 23:03 |
| sdake | likely need 3 weeks for that level of work | 23:04 |
| Slower | personally the time should just be a guideline.. if we go over it's not a big deal imo | 23:04 |
| adrian_otto | dguryanov, abhishek-i, dims, Slower, please DM me your email addresses | 23:04 |
| sdake | dec 8th | 23:04 |
| Slower | adrian_otto: PM? | 23:04 |
| dims | adrian_otto: you have mine | 23:04 |
| achanda_ | sdake: ok | 23:05 |
| adrian_otto | dims: got it, tx! | 23:06 |
| sdake | i'm still a bit fuzzy on bays | 23:07 |
| Slower | sdake: what do you need to know? | 23:07 |
| sdake | assume i have a 10k physical node count cluster | 23:08 |
| sdake | what software is running on each node to provide the bay on bay create | 23:08 |
| sdake | some type of agent? | 23:08 |
| Slower | I think basically we are planning to use nova-docker to spin up a docker image containing our service | 23:08 |
| Slower | nova | 23:08 |
| sdake | nova-docker is single node tho? | 23:08 |
| Slower | nova-docker is a driver for nova that creates docker containers | 23:08 |
| adrian_otto | all new cores have been added to: https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/473,members | 23:09 |
| sdake | one issue with nova-docker that iwll be incredibly challenging is implementing pod networks | 23:09 |
| sdake | slower so not using nova-docker would be better ;) | 23:09 |
| Slower | sdake: can we talk that through? | 23:09 |
| Slower | sdake: you are probably right, I'm just not sure yet | 23:09 |
| sdake | a pod shares a network | 23:09 |
| Slower | I'm not sure how networking will work with containers-within-containers | 23:10 |
| sdake | pods dont have to be contaiuner in container | 23:10 |
| sdake | pods can be bare metal container beside container | 23:10 |
| Slower | basically we will be starting a container with our service + docker or k8s | 23:10 |
| sdake | that is how k8s implements it | 23:10 |
| Slower | sdake: they can yes | 23:10 |
| Slower | sdake: I think it depends on where and how we want to integrate with openstack | 23:11 |
| Slower | sdake: if we want to provide a new openstack service that runs along side nova then we can do that | 23:11 |
| Slower | if we make use of nova-docker then the new service can be an image | 23:11 |
| Slower | and admins don't need to install anything new (if they already have nova-docker) | 23:11 |
| Slower | or they can use vms | 23:12 |
| sdake | i am pretty sure we wont ever be able to get the networking to work with that model :) | 23:12 |
| Slower | sdake: do you know how container in container works? | 23:12 |
| Slower | networking | 23:12 |
| sdake | no | 23:12 |
| Slower | I mean | 23:12 |
| Slower | me neither :) | 23:12 |
| sdake | daneyon can sort it out I think | 23:12 |
| sdake | but what makes more sense is container BESDIES container | 23:12 |
| sdake | not in container | 23:12 |
| sdake | nesting sucks :) | 23:12 |
| Slower | you should tell erw that :) | 23:13 |
| * Slower envisions a matter/anti-matter collision | 23:13 | |
| daneyon | I would think container in container is simply layered linux bridges. | 23:13 |
| sdake | so container in container is easy daneyon? | 23:13 |
| sdake | I am certain k8s does not use nesting | 23:14 |
| Slower | I doubt they would | 23:14 |
| sdake | they somehow set up the networking on the pod on the bare metal | 23:14 |
| daneyon | At the surface it seems straight forward. Of course, we'll know better when we dig deeper. | 23:14 |
| Slower | we are just using it because it makes it easy to integrate into openstack | 23:14 |
| Slower | sdake: there's no question you can do it without | 23:15 |
| Slower | this just lets us make a nice tidy docker image that does what we want and offers our service | 23:15 |
| adrian_otto | in a pod, there is a single network namespace, and multiple containers within the pod use that same one | 23:15 |
| sdake | right | 23:15 |
| Slower | bay != pod | 23:15 |
| Slower | we are not nesting for pods sake | 23:15 |
| Slower | it's just how we are integrating with openstack | 23:15 |
| Slower | and if that doesn't work we can figure out how to do it without that | 23:16 |
| Slower | but I think if it does work it will be slick | 23:16 |
| Yuanying_ | bay = container (provided nova-docker) or vm (provided kvm) or bare metal (ironic) ? | 23:17 |
| Slower | Yuanying_: correct | 23:17 |
| sdake | ironic can schedule like that? | 23:17 |
| sdake | eg, you can put ironic on every machine and ask for a bay from ironic, and it will find one? | 23:17 |
| Slower | fyi it's all a silly ocean analogy.. bay (ocean bay) -> pod (of whales) -> containers (on whales backs) | 23:18 |
| sdake | ya i get its a higher level abstraction | 23:18 |
| sdake | just wondering how its implemented :) | 23:18 |
| sdake | specifically the comes from ironic case | 23:18 |
| sdake | I dont know much about ironic at all | 23:18 |
| Slower | sdake: hmm, that might be trickier.. I don't know how you define the image running in ironic instances | 23:18 |
| Slower | but if we included our service in the ironic image then it would work | 23:19 |
| sdake | right you need to run something there | 23:19 |
| sdake | this is the agent I spoke of earlier :) | 23:19 |
| sdake | agent on every machine, no need for nova-docker or ironic | 23:19 |
| Slower | yeah | 23:19 |
| Slower | so that would be a service parallel to nova | 23:19 |
| Slower | we can explore that too | 23:20 |
| Slower | I don't think it will be hard to change it later if we want | 23:20 |
| sdake | you say paraplell to nova, what else would there be? | 23:20 |
| Slower | sdake: if we make a docker image containing the service, the admin doesn't need to manage it as an openstack component directly | 23:20 |
| Slower | you start it via nova-docker | 23:21 |
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| sdake | so nova-docker is on each node? | 23:21 |
| Slower | it's part of nova (or will be) | 23:21 |
| Slower | (or will have to be installed by the admin if it doesn't get included as core nova) | 23:22 |
| sdake | let that melt my brain for a minute | 23:22 |
| sdake | bbiaf | 23:22 |
| Slower | ok :) | 23:22 |
| Slower | sdake: it took me a month or more to absorb it :) | 23:22 |
| Yuanying_ | If I have a vm image containing the service, I can use it ? or any limitation now? | 23:22 |
| sdake | ok got it, so agent runs in each nova-docker container | 23:22 |
| sdake | and that handles the rest api | 23:23 |
| sdake | that means no installing the service in bare metal | 23:23 |
| Slower | sdake: correct | 23:23 |
| Slower | Yuanying_: correct. This is just all ideas right now | 23:23 |
| sdake | for that model to work we need a server to communicate with the rest api | 23:24 |
| Yuanying_ | thx | 23:24 |
| sdake | and the server needs to run in each nova driver | 23:24 |
| sdake | err each image that hte nova driver launches | 23:24 |
| Slower | sdake: can we find endpoints via keystone? | 23:24 |
| sdake | the server then provides pod and container scheduling | 23:24 |
| sdake | seems like neeedless complication but I like complex thing s:) | 23:25 |
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| Slower | haha | 23:25 |
| Slower | you may be right | 23:25 |
| sdake | I can tell you it will not scale well | 23:25 |
| sdake | eg 10k nodes forget about that | 23:25 |
| erw | sdake: nesting vs pseudo-nesting is technically an implementation detail | 23:26 |
| sdake | erw yup you may be right | 23:26 |
| erw | sdake: more importantly, imho, is that nesting makes sense as a logical model | 23:26 |
| sdake | well i haven't said bays aren't a good idea - i like that idea in fact | 23:27 |
| sdake | but the nesting part of it seems concerning | 23:27 |
| erw | sdake: that said, a multi-tenant system with a single docker daemon is far more vulnerable than a multi-tenant system with nested docker | 23:27 |
| sdake | i'm not sure how to put my fingero n it | 23:27 |
| erw | (then again, both are fairly fragile security-wise) | 23:27 |
| sdake | i guess I need to read the ironic api | 23:28 |
| erw | sdake: their api is the nova api, isn’t it? | 23:28 |
| erw | bbl- again. | 23:28 |
| sdake | no clue at all | 23:29 |
| Slower | ironic is a nova driver | 23:29 |
| Slower | just like nova-docker | 23:29 |
| Slower | the only thing different I think would be the image format | 23:29 |
| sdake | and it boots an image on bare metal? | 23:29 |
| Slower | yeah | 23:29 |
| Slower | pxe boot I think | 23:29 |
| sdake | how does it maintain contact? | 23:29 |
| sdake | after it b oots | 23:29 |
| Slower | dunno :) | 23:29 |
| Slower | cloud-init? :) | 23:29 |
| sdake | i would think its image would be gone | 23:29 |
| Slower | I'm guessing | 23:29 |
| Slower | afaik it's only really used for triple-o | 23:30 |
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| Slower | so it just starts more nova's etc | 23:30 |
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| sdake | would be nice if we could jsut backend k8s | 23:34 |
| sdake | but i'm unclear how to make its api multi-tenant | 23:34 |
| Slower | I think we should look at that tho | 23:35 |
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