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| -wolfe.freenode.net- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | 04:27 | |
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| lifeless | dims: sorry, today blew up (daughter had an accident - shes ok, but time disappears)- tomorrow I promise | 07:00 |
|---|---|---|
| dims | lifeless : ouch. no worries at all. they are priority #1 :) | 07:01 |
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| dims | hope she's all better soon lifeless ! | 07:01 |
| lifeless | dims: yeah - scratched lens of eye, but it will heal in a few days, till then she'll be fragile but functional, I hope ;) | 07:02 |
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| lifeless | but boy, the amount of time you spend hurry-up-and-waiting in dr's offices | 07:03 |
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| dims | lifeless : scary, yep the dr's don't feel our urgency :) | 07:04 |
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| skraynev | ttx: hi. around? I have one question about launchpad bugs status changes | 08:21 |
| ttx | skraynev: I'm here | 08:22 |
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| skraynev | ttx: I'm just wondering, that I see two last bugs, which were merged recently moved automatically from InProgress to FixReleased. I thougth, that it should be FixCommited instead. and status should be changed on FixReleased only after release or tag.. | 08:24 |
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| skraynev | ttx: f.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1524295 | 08:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1524295 in heat "encrypted resource_data is not helping during troubleshooting issues" [Medium,Fix released] - Assigned to Kanagaraj Manickam (kanagaraj-manickam) | 08:25 |
| skraynev | In Progress → Fix Released | 08:25 |
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| ttx | skraynev: we have a few threads explaining that change, let me find them | 08:27 |
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| skraynev | ttx: yeah. it will be really good. Especially if they have answer on question: should I change status to FixCommited manually for these bugs | 08:29 |
| ttx | skraynev: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-November/080288.html | 08:29 |
| ttx | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/081612.html | 08:29 |
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| ttx | short answer is: no | 08:30 |
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| ttx | skraynev: you should really make sure you don't miss the [release] emails. Or appoint someone to follow them for you | 08:30 |
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| skraynev | ttx: doh. you are right. I had special filter, but it had a mistake. I fixed it now. | 08:38 |
| skraynev | ttx: thank you for the help :) | 08:38 |
| ttx | skraynev: read both threads and let me know if you have any leftover questions | 08:38 |
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| skraynev | ttx: second one thread has a happy-end story about experience of Gnocchi team :) | 08:57 |
| skraynev | ttx: about first one will read it more carefully after launch. Looks like it contains realy important notes for me. | 08:58 |
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| skraynev | ttx: ok. the last two questions from my side: 1. Is it correct, that script which moves bugs from FixCommitted to FixReleased will not be executed for mitaka-2? 2. Should we manually update statuses of these bugs ? (we have 4 bugs with FixCommited status for M2 now) | 09:40 |
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| ttx | skraynev: yes, you should move them manually | 09:46 |
| ttx | so 1/ yes and 2/ yes | 09:46 |
| skraynev | ttx: will do. thx :) | 09:46 |
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| ekuris | itzikb, ? | 11:55 |
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| ekuris | Hi All , I am trying to update my contact onfo in : https://review.openstack.org/#/settings/contact but I get an error : Code Review - Error Server Error Cannot store contact information | 11:57 |
| ekuris | any advice ? | 11:57 |
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| anshprat | hey, looks like hudson-openstack hook to launchpad at times is failing? example - https://bugs.launchpad.net/puppet-magnum/+bug/1518589/comments/7 - this is merged but still the status shows as in progress . similarly for magnum, it did not update the status to in-progress leading to duplicate patch.. | 13:54 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1518589 in puppet-openstacklib "README references old puppet-openstack module" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Anshu Prateek (anshu-prateek) | 13:54 |
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| anshprat | which is the right group to raise issues related to such integrations ? | 13:55 |
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| anshprat | s/comments/7/comments/8/ | 13:56 |
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| anshprat | guess better to head over to infra for this.. | 13:57 |
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| anshprat | ah, looks like http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-July/040250.html | 13:59 |
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| anteaya | ekuris: try https://ask.openstack.org/en/question/56720/cannot-store-contact-information-when-updating-info-in-openstack-gerrit/ | 17:04 |
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| dstanek | does tester have something equivalent to -I or -e in nose? the ability to exclude files or tests based on a regex | 20:16 |
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| clarkb | dstanek: yes just pass a regex that excludes things | 20:16 |
| clarkb | as an arg (no flag0 | 20:16 |
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| dstanek | clarkb: hmm...let me give that a try | 20:17 |
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| sdague | dstanek: it only has inclusive regex | 20:41 |
| sdague | so you have to just be clever with negative match assertions | 20:42 |
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| anteaya | dstanek: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo-incubator/tree/TESTING.rst may help | 20:42 |
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| anteaya | dstanek: if you find something that works please add it to the file | 20:43 |
| dstanek | sdague: yeah, thanks to clarkb i was able to get something workable. trying to see the consequences of my actions now. | 20:43 |
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| thingee | harlowja: so came up in the tc from mordred, are things like redis being removed from tooz? | 20:55 |
| harlowja | thingee soooo | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | that discussion hasn't yet been finished | 20:56 |
| harlowja | in general i'd rather not remove, just classify better | 20:56 |
| * mordred votes yes | 20:56 | |
| mordred | they are very dangerous | 20:56 |
| clarkb | mordred: ++ | 20:56 |
| mordred | if they are there, people will use them | 20:56 |
| mordred | and nobody should use them | 20:56 |
| harlowja | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/240681/ (classify better approach) | 20:56 |
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| mordred | there are ZERO times when they are ok | 20:56 |
| harlowja | welll | 20:56 |
| harlowja | when u are accepting of the models @ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/240681/16/tooz/coordination.py | 20:56 |
| harlowja | and u use a driver accepting the model it has | 20:57 |
| harlowja | then it probably is ok right? | 20:57 |
| harlowja | *accept and understand | 20:57 |
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| harlowja | i do not disagree that they are not the best of all things | 20:58 |
| clarkb | its just tech debt for things that are known to not work right | 20:58 |
| harlowja | but understanding what they do and how to use them imho makes for >= 1 times they are ok | 20:58 |
| clarkb | there is no reason to assume that responsibility | 20:58 |
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| thingee | harlowja: have a RedisLock.yes_i_am_serious = True | 20:58 |
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| clarkb | "redis broken my cloud" -> "wontfix" -> "but you support it" | 20:58 |
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| clarkb | that scenario should just be "I use real dlm and am happy" | 20:59 |
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| notmorgan | thingee, harlowja: i'm with mordred on thise | 20:59 |
| harlowja | at that point u point to the consistency model @ above and u say this is what redis does, why did u pick that one not understanding thats how it works | 20:59 |
| clarkb | harlowja: because we support it | 20:59 |
| clarkb | harlowja: because openstack said it works | 20:59 |
| mordred | harlowja: right | 20:59 |
| mordred | what clarkb said | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | which comes back to the whole reason i didn't want tooz because if it's "there" we support it | 21:00 |
| mordred | I think it's dangerous to have a thing there that we know will breka your cloud | 21:00 |
| mordred | same here | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | and tooz has redis option in it. | 21:00 |
| mordred | I was originally against tooz because it has a redis driver | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | for example | 21:00 |
| harlowja | understood | 21:00 |
| mordred | and I was afraid we would not delete it with prejudice | 21:00 |
| harlowja | the shitty part is that all drivers will have slightly different consistency models | 21:00 |
| mordred | it should end up with _only_ zk, consul and etcd | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | and iirc part of the conversation at the summit was "these will be deleted" | 21:00 |
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| mordred | harlowja: TOTALLY - that is the downside to compat driver | 21:00 |
| harlowja | *less slightly different == set of [zookeeper, consul, etcd] | 21:00 |
| harlowja | mordred yup | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | which was part of what we conceeded tooz is fine. | 21:00 |
| annegentle | flaper87: I'm working this week then off with family. And they are a distracting bunch, that family! | 21:01 |
| mordred | but at least the other three are close enough to being ok that they're probably in the realm of not being a complete disaster | 21:01 |
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| clarkb | IMO we shouldn't make software we know to be broken | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: no worries, I can take next week's post if there's one | 21:02 |
| clarkb | thats silly | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: enjoy your time w/ family :) | 21:02 |
| mordred | clarkb: ++ | 21:02 |
| * notmorgan really doesn't want to rewind this conversation back to pre-summit "no tooz" since we already agreed tooz was ok with drivers being removed. | 21:02 | |
| harlowja | clarkb so broken is a matter of applying the consistency models to your app correctly | 21:02 |
| mordred | notmorgan: ++ | 21:02 |
| mordred | harlowja: right. | 21:02 |
| mordred | harlowja: but | 21:02 |
| notmorgan | harlowja: for the purposes of what we are proposing and what we want, redis is broken | 21:02 |
| harlowja | except in single server mode | 21:03 |
| mordred | harlowja: what we want is one model that is what openstack needs | 21:03 |
| harlowja | *in single server redis mode, its probably ok | 21:03 |
| jroll | harlowja: let me introduce you to the "experimental" nova-baremetal that we never advertised to work right | 21:03 |
| notmorgan | harlowja: that is not an acceptible "we should use it ever" | 21:03 |
| mordred | harlowja: not a general purpose library that could be used for any set of possible model combinations | 21:03 |
| jroll | harlowja: and that's why things that don't work are bad ideas | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | mordred: harlowja are we discussing whether redis should go or hacked? | 21:03 |
| mordred | flaper87: yes | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | because I think it should just go | 21:03 |
| harlowja | jroll ll | 21:03 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:03 |
| mordred | flaper87: ++ | 21:03 |
| mordred | yes | 21:03 |
| mordred | so do we all | 21:03 |
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| mordred | just havne't convinced harlowja yet | 21:03 |
| harlowja | jroll i know that whole thing to well, toooo well, lol | 21:03 |
| jroll | harlowja: people don't read the docs man | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | like now, disappear like a ninja | 21:03 |
| flaper87 | evaporate | 21:03 |
| jroll | right :) | 21:03 |
| mordred | he's still thinking about the space too deeply | 21:03 |
| harlowja | jroll shitty people will be shitty, lol | 21:04 |
| mordred | harlowja: just trust us on this one - you know the space too well :) | 21:04 |
| harlowja | ;) | 21:04 |
| notmorgan | harlowja: so don't advertise crappy-non-working things as potentially supportable | 21:04 |
| * mordred hands harlowja a fluffy llama with almost no mud | 21:04 | |
| jroll | harlowja: that's not what I was implying, but sure | 21:04 |
| * flaper87 wonders if we have to convince harlowja | 21:04 | |
| jroll | harlowja: more like, PMs will continue crazy deadlines with no time to read the docs | 21:04 |
| * flaper87 ducks looking at harlowja's face | 21:04 | |
| harlowja | flaper87 i just wanted to debate with people | 21:04 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:04 |
| harlowja | why u guys no think this is fun :-P | 21:05 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:05 |
| notmorgan | i mean the alternative really is enforce drivers that don't meet classifier requirements can't be used... which is a lot more work than removal | 21:05 |
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| flaper87 | harlowja: ah right, because of the random rant random day random debate thing | 21:05 |
| flaper87 | :P | 21:05 |
| * harlowja should join a debate club | 21:05 | |
| harlowja | soooo | 21:06 |
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| harlowja | sooo | 21:06 |
| harlowja | i'm ok with it, lol | 21:07 |
| harlowja | there i stated it | 21:07 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:07 |
| harlowja | do u all think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/240681/ is valueable then still? | 21:07 |
| jroll | flaper87: we convinced him! | 21:07 |
| harlowja | ha | 21:07 |
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| harlowja | if not ^ i can destroy | 21:07 |
| harlowja | but the question of what to do with the existing drivers still needs to be found | 21:08 |
| harlowja | is it just putting a big warning on using them (when they are used) | 21:08 |
| harlowja | and wait 2 years to remove them | 21:08 |
| notmorgan | harlowja: rm -rf | 21:08 |
| notmorgan | new major version | 21:08 |
| * notmorgan is not joking | 21:08 | |
| harlowja | ya, this involves lifeless spec i think | 21:08 |
| harlowja | the backwards compat one.. | 21:08 |
| lifeless | ohai | 21:08 |
| lifeless | so | 21:09 |
| lifeless | backwards compat matters | 21:09 |
| lifeless | I think we can deprecate them immediately | 21:09 |
| flaper87 | w000000000000000000000000000h00000000000000000000000 | 21:09 |
| lifeless | and we can slap a warning on it | 21:09 |
| lifeless | but we can't just rm and hope | 21:09 |
| * harlowja soooo that cancels rm -rf i think | 21:09 | |
| flaper87 | deprecate + warning + then removeal | 21:09 |
| * notmorgan still advocates rm -rf | 21:09 | |
| clarkb | and its not 2 years its like 2 cycles iirc | 21:09 |
| notmorgan | doesn't mean i'm right | 21:09 |
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| lifeless | its the support lifetime | 21:09 |
| lifeless | whatever that is | 21:09 |
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| harlowja | right | 21:10 |
| harlowja | X cycles | 21:10 |
| lifeless | e.g. if stable goes bonkers and decides to support M till 20202 | 21:10 |
| lifeless | then we're hosed | 21:10 |
| harlowja | i'm dead by then i think | 21:10 |
| harlowja | *unless | 21:10 |
| notmorgan | lifeless: if we support m until 20202 i'll quit openstack :P | 21:10 |
| notmorgan | lifeless: before we hit EOL | 21:10 |
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| harlowja | EOL will hit u first | 21:11 |
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| flaper87 | lol | 21:11 |
| harlowja | sooooooo | 21:12 |
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| harlowja | i'm ok with slapping big warnings on them | 21:12 |
| harlowja | in big blinky red colors | 21:12 |
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| clarkb | lifeless: I don't expect M's support lifecycle to change drastically :) but if it does I will be happy | 21:13 |
| harlowja | redis is the odd one in the group (buttt i'll avoid that conversation i guess) | 21:13 |
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| harlowja | flaper87 zaquar also is redis stuff to right | 21:13 |
| lifeless | clarkb: longer happy or shorter happy? | 21:13 |
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| harlowja | maybe zaqar usage of redis is different, i forget | 21:13 |
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| clarkb | lifeless: longer happy | 21:14 |
| clarkb | basically I will be happy if the people that constantly say this is important to them show it by keeping things running | 21:14 |
| lifeless | clarkb: that would be nice yes | 21:15 |
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| clarkb | also we are in a place system wise where doing extra long support cycles won't involve keeping particularly EOL software around that I know of | 21:16 |
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| clarkb | centos7 and trusty are both relatively modern | 21:16 |
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| clarkb | though werewolf wiht systemd across the board would be even nicer | 21:17 |
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| harlowja | sooo a side question, holding tooz to these standards i'm all fine with, clarkb mordred notmorgan flaper87 (+ others) will the TC start holding other projects to the same standards? | 21:18 |
| harlowja | i got no problem with setting a bar, just be nice if TC also started setting that bar elsewhere to | 21:19 |
| harlowja | maybe there should be a 'u have passed the bar' tag | 21:19 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:19 |
| clarkb | I mean I have long said it :) (granted getting people ot agree with me has often been difficult) | 21:19 |
| harlowja | ;) | 21:19 |
| harlowja | true dat | 21:19 |
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| jroll | harlowja: the backwards compat standards? https://review.openstack.org/226157 | 21:20 |
| jroll | discussion of a tag there as well | 21:20 |
| lifeless | harlowja: the backwards compat spec is opt in - but projects that dont' up in will have limits on their inclusion as dependencies | 21:21 |
| lifeless | harlowja: always capped, harder upgrade processes | 21:21 |
| harlowja | sorry meant bar of 'thou shall not use things like redis, cause they are not things we want to support the issues with when used badly'... | 21:21 |
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| lifeless | oh | 21:21 |
| harlowja | *that bar | 21:21 |
| lifeless | so I don't think the bar here is being set by the tc | 21:21 |
| harlowja | invisible bar? | 21:21 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:21 |
| lifeless | its been a consensus discussion | 21:21 |
| lifeless | the tc is saying 'yes, that makes sense and the community has agreed' | 21:22 |
| harlowja | ok, sure, call it that if u want | 21:22 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:22 |
| lifeless | well the distinction is | 21:22 |
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| lifeless | important | 21:22 |
| harlowja | sure sure, to some i suppose it is | 21:22 |
| lifeless | I think a similar but different discussion we could have is | 21:22 |
| lifeless | should we allow safety-risk tradeoffs for deployers at all ? | 21:23 |
| harlowja | right | 21:23 |
| lifeless | I don't think we've had that, its just been kindof assumed | 21:23 |
| harlowja | the risk part? | 21:23 |
| lifeless | and we could point at mysql vs galera, for instance, as a case of this | 21:23 |
| harlowja | or the safety part, ha | 21:23 |
| harlowja | right | 21:23 |
| harlowja | some of this is also because the safety/risk is really unknown | 21:24 |
| lifeless | we don't mandate galera; this means a deployer can lose an entire cloud due to the db spof failing | 21:24 |
| harlowja | *software doesn't stand still | 21:24 |
| lifeless | that too | 21:24 |
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| lifeless | I think that if a project doesn't need locking semantics, that redis is fine | 21:24 |
| lifeless | its got some limits | 21:24 |
| lifeless | big deal | 21:24 |
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| lifeless | OTOH if you need locking, particularly if you're looking for being able to implement STONITH on top of something, you really don't want redis's semantics | 21:25 |
| lifeless | and the DLM discussion, as I saw it, was establishing the lowest bar projects like nova and Ironic needed, to build their things with confidence | 21:25 |
| harlowja | hard part is that getting a distributed lock doesn't ensure u will retain it for the duration of your usage anyway, projects also need to be aware of that to | 21:26 |
| lifeless | in the absence of failures, right? | 21:26 |
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| lifeless | and you should be able to detect that | 21:27 |
| harlowja | depends on how app is architected imho | 21:27 |
| lifeless | if we're sitting on top of paxos | 21:27 |
| lifeless | say | 21:27 |
| lifeless | how would we lose it? | 21:27 |
| harlowja | if app acquires lock at time zero, then goes off and runs blocking operation for 10 minutes, anytime during that 10 minutes u can lose it :-/ | 21:28 |
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| lifeless | how? | 21:28 |
| greghaynes | harlowja: Youre saying if you dont serve a heartbeat or something for the lock? | 21:28 |
| harlowja | network blips | 21:28 |
| harlowja | right | 21:28 |
| harlowja | greghaynes ya | 21:29 |
| lifeless | so, if your lock is in the paxos state | 21:29 |
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| lifeless | to lose it you have to be doing an explicit consensus break-lock operation | 21:29 |
| lifeless | which is gonna be a STONITH situation | 21:29 |
| greghaynes | lifeless: Depends on how you acquire it | 21:29 |
| lifeless | greghaynes: oh? I'm clearly missing something, could you folk please take pity on me and use small words ? | 21:30 |
| greghaynes | Some of these systems heartbeat you to make sure you didnt die with a lock, and if you did they get the lock back | 21:30 |
| harlowja | ya most of them afaik | 21:30 |
| harlowja | *all of them | 21:30 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:30 |
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| harlowja | via heartbeat or similarish thing | 21:30 |
| greghaynes | zk will do that with sessions, but I think in etcd/consul land that wont happen for leader election locks | 21:31 |
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| greghaynes | IMBW about consul though | 21:31 |
| harlowja | depends on timeout i think | 21:31 |
| harlowja | *infinite timeout then it wont | 21:31 |
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| harlowja | *timeout/ttl | 21:32 |
| lifeless | ok so you heartbeat, and if you lose it, you shoot the node,then mark the lock as released | 21:32 |
| greghaynes | (this is a great reason why focusing on zk would be awesome) | 21:32 |
| lifeless | losing a tcp socket doesn't mean the process is dead | 21:32 |
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| harlowja | right | 21:34 |
| harlowja | understood that | 21:34 |
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| harlowja | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245362/ lifeless u may want to look at :) | 21:34 |
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| harlowja | sessions there have ttls | 21:34 |
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| harlowja | now maybe we should have a persistent lock (never expires/times out...) and a auto-release on.. | 21:34 |
| harlowja | *one | 21:34 |
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| harlowja | overall if these heartbeat mechanism are avoided (never expire, unless forcefully broken by someone) then yes the paxos/equivalent will protect thigns | 21:35 |
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| harlowja | bb | 21:36 |
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